Confused because I still have more anger at ow(s) than at my h... and even at his family of origin... why do I keep forgiving him? anyone else experienced or grown through this?<p>thanks, I want to get over my misplaced anger.<p>thanks, h

Honey, misplaced and repressed anger are two of my favorite psychological habits. It's much more comfortable to be angry at OW than it is at the WH, whom you still love! There's no confusion about hating her the way there is with hating your WH. I constantly battle myself to make sure the anger is not misdirected, but it's a constant battle. you're halfway there if you at least recognize what you're doing.<p>
This is what I hope to get out of our marriage counseling - staying in touch with the anger, and working it through and out, rather than just repressing it the way I have in the past. I believe no true healing, fix, forgiveness or whatever you want to call it, can occur until the anger is resolved.

"Better the hell you know than the heaven you don't."<p>You keep on "forgiving" him because it's easier to stay with a known situation -- no matter how stinking rotten unhealthy it is -- than to move on to something new and unknown.<p>On your other thread, I asked you to post to us what you planned to do to make your life and your children's lives better -- and do it without mentioning your husband once. You did not respond. Can you still answer this?

Honey,
Anger at the OW isn't really misplaced anger, though it may be your focus of your anger in your mind. There's no reason not to be angry with them. Their actions have caused you hurt. But, the OW(s) weren't alone in the A, your H made those decisons to have those relationships with those women, and at some point if you do not recognize that you are very angry with your H, it will cripple the grief process. <p>Anger is a part of grief. <p>Your actions and your words show you are angry with your H. I'm not sure why you don't think you are angry at him.<p>Anger is a reasonable response to your H's actions BUT it is your responsibility to manage your anger, not in physical or verbal attack, but in a thinking, controlling (you) manner.<p>[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Lor (Lor) ]</p>

Don't tell me to "not be mad at the OW!!" I'll be angry with her if I please, thank you. She knew my H was married, she knew he had children, she knew I was a decent person because I had done so many nice things for her mother, even though the OW didn't know me very well. She's an insult to womanhood, and I'll hate her if I please.<p>Now on the other hand, yes, I've been angry at my WH too. However, it's a lot easier to deal with anger toward someone who is apologizing to you, begging you for forgiveness, catering to you, trying desperately to please you etc...<p>Should the OW ever ask for my forgiveness, I would consider giving it. Until then, I'll be angry as long as I please, and will get over it on my own terms.<p>Also for the record, she initiated the physical contact and threw herself at him for sex. He refused her advances intially, but she wore him down - YES, at his will. She pressed him hard for sex one day, and that's when he broke it off. She still to this day would like to have sex with him. HE's deserving of my forgiveness just by denying her further gratification.<p>I KNOW HE PLAYED HIS PART. She's a smart old broad no doubt, and she did not make her advances without assurance from him that they would be acceptable. However, when he would back off, and he did, she'd just bide her time and try again later after she had worked on him some more.<p>So say I'm in denial. Whatever, how can you NOT be angry at your spouse? But how can never forgiving and clinging to anger heal a relationship? There comes a time for forgiveness, and forgiveness is not something you give and then take back. So when I still have my down spells, my pity parties, my hurting moments, I try not to focus my pain at my spouse. He's doing the best he can to make up for his mistake, and focusing my pain on him is a huge LB for him. Focusing pain and hurt at him also serves to come between us and drive us apart instead of pull us together. <p>Yes I'm entitled to my pain, but true remorse is entitled to forgiveness also.

Why shouldn't a wife be mad at the OW? It sounds completely logical to me. She hurt you, however you want to look at. Same way you would feel toward a complete stranger that threatened or hurt one of your children. <p>Do you understand though that somewhere out there, there may be a husband that feels exactly the way you feel toward the OW about your husband? How do you reconcile that?

I have a different take on this. I never blamed the OW for the A. I put all of the blame on my H. I blame her for the daily hang up calls. I blame her for driving past my house dozens of times daily. I blame her for refusing to let go. I blame her for lying to me but the A is my H's responsibility. He was the one who took vows before God and our friends and family. He is the one who broke those vows.

Hi, I do certainly believe the ow is a ____-- ity ____ ity blank.... and more! But my anger at ow's is quite intense... and I doubt I will ever forgive them... except... in some sort of christian way... ocassionally my better self... prays for them... and says... to bless them and hope they will heal and move on from their wrongs... but NO... I don't at all mean it is wrong to be angry... I am just way WAY WAY angry.... I slapped the 2nd suspected ow... and the first I knocked her down and pulled her hair out... so this is pretty darn bad... it is almost so bad... my imagination of running them down with a car... might even get the best of me...if I let myself go psycho! I am not! But I could... I just don't want to live my life out in jail...<p>I sometimes feel like what's her name... the broderick lady on lifetime tv... the movie where she killed her h and the ow! OK! that is how bad my anger is... I am not plotting this... but I can absolutely understand and relate to her anger. <p>I loved my H with all my heart and soul... my family was my life... still is...it just now has a big whole...and my heart has a whole and my life and what I wanted as a family has a big whole... because of HIM and the ow's and ALCOHOLISM.<p>I just keep making up reasons to forgive my H... my husband does not even beg forgiveness... <p>He has all kinds of reasons why he was driven to it by ME,,,, I was so awful he... went to another woman... I got fat because of pain killers and pain due to back injury... I took an anti d... because of stress from back injury and his alcoholism and so I had lack of interest in sex... so he went elsewhere... I loved the kids more than him... so he said... so he went to her... I didn't keep the house good enough... so he went to her...<p>there is nothing he has said period... that has said... I am sorry, I love you, I want to fix this.<p>NOthing. when I plan a'd my h wanted the sex with me and the fun times... but he is not willing to change his wrong doing that hurt us... not yet.<p>I went to counesleing today and id'd that I try to prove myself to be not what he says I am... <p>I am doing this dance saying no i'm not... no i'm not... no i'm not... i'm good you see????? and he keeps saying no your not good enough... see... look at your faults... look how bad you are... look why I had to leave... look at you you you ... HONEY..it is ALL YOU, YOUR FAULT... you lost your man... since you are so bad. <p>It breaks my heart... and I try to pro ve to him how good I am... plan a and goodness and giving... then I catch him in another bad act... and act out with my temper... and he gets to say... OH LOOK AT YOU >>> YOU YOU! See... and I keep forgivng this!????<p>I am upset with me... that I keep forgivng him and feeling that I had so much to do with the problems... because of my intense anger and intense reactions to his abuse... and alcoholic behavior... and adultery... lying... emotional abuse and name calling, cussing etc... then I just forgive him and say... OH look what I did...if I hadn't yelled blown up... etc... he wouldn't of..<p>WELL< HE did, already...<p>He throws me dam! crumbs... acts romantic and loving and then the moment I am hooked tells me how awful I am again.... at least that is what my counselor says... today.<p>I came out of my appt.... confuesd , she sd he is sooo abusive.... !! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>It is confusing.... <p>I keep remembering the HAPPY TIMES TOGETHER>>> and forgetting his bad... behaviors...e tc... and trying to think I am cauisng them... <p>or forgivng too much.... is that what i am doing... and many of us are doing... by even forgivng adultery????<p>My counselor seems to think... I do not need him and I need to let him go as he abuses me so badly.<p>I know I do not need him... but I have known and loved him for 17 yrs....<p>I guess what I am saying...is I am more overtly angry at ow's ... I guess it is safer to be... I don't want them to be loving and kind and in my life... I want him... <p>but he did this to me???? sure I am to blame for some of the issues prior and that contributed to an a... but what about him? he will not own up to his part... and at the 7 month mark... I am having real issues with him not being able to participate in any recory or work with me on the Marriage... <p>he says if he gets a job.. then he will go to therapy... he has to devote all his resources to a ojob hunt for now... well gee... I guess his marriage means zilch???? <p>what a crummy excuse.<p>I feel like a zero to him... and I get more and more upset.. and he says... see LOOK< YOU ARE CRAZT,,, just why i cna't work on the marriage...<p>SO... what to do... <p>I am just thinking I can't express anger at him... since he is already so far gone from me... I do express some anger and that just seperates us farther... he is not making it safe for me to be angry at him... it is not.. as it drives a bigger wedge... and I want my marriage.<p>I don't know... the more I think about how bad he treats me... the worse I feel.<p>but he keeps saying... it is because of me..he treats me bad...<p>Confusing , yes. <p>He used to treat me like his princess... but unfortunately any human or otherwise mistake I make is deemed that I am notworthy of love... or being loved... <p>ok, confused.. ? I am beginnign to understand... <p>he is so controlling and manipultive.. he is a smart man... and he knows what he is doing... when I pull back... he turns back on the charm... <p>>>>???? <p>thanks, H

Honey, are you sure you aren't somewhere deep down looking for glory by proving you can be good at something? And that something is "a victim."<p>Only you know that, but I work with a lady whose husband is a sex addict. She denies it adamantly, she lies for him, excuses him etc and the whole time she's coming to work with bruises, with tears, with ulcers etc. She's been doing this for YEARS! (about 40 years of marriage). I've finally come to the conclusion that she somehow sees herself as a martyr. That she thinks she will somehow earn respect and pity and kind words from others after she's dead and gone because she was willing to be a good wife by putting up with his nonsense.<p>Just something to think about.

jamup... maybe in some crzed way... I don't see... I do not like being in this situation and I do not want to be a victim...<p>I am really good at a lot of other things... <p>So, sorry... I do not want to be a victim... I am very tired of being in these shoes... and I HAVE TO CHANGE THEM>>> MYSELF... sorry if I sound like a whiner or a victim... etc.... <p>I am sorry if you think I am wanting to a victim... not at all consciously... but I am definitely willing to look at this idea.<p>I will think on your thoughts that I do
this... thanks for your reply and your thoughts.<p>HOney

Honey, I was not trying to treat you psychologically. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] I have no idea if that shoe fits you or not. I just kind of figure that it's easier for others to spot this "victim" type behavior than for the person involved to spot it. That's why I suggested it. Some people may look at me and think the same thing. I don't think the shoe fits, but only soul searching would reveal it. If you think it might fit, mention it to your counselor and see what he/she says about it. Believe me, they would know more about it than I would!!!!!!!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Honey, glad you're in counselling. But if it's to do any good, you have to not only go regularly but honestly examine yourself.<p>You're still blaming your situation on your H, his drinking, his women. Ok, no doubt about it, your H is an abusive adulterous alcoholic and drug abuser. Why is Honey still enabling him? What is Honey going to do about Honey?<p>You said your M was blissful before the As, at least before the As you KNOW about. It seems you are rewriting history; you've talked before about how your relationship was born and incubated in a whirl of binge drinking. You've talked before about physical violence, where he hit, choked and sat on you, and where you have hit him. Emotional violence from both of you, escalating over the years. Doesn't sound very ecstatic, somehow - unless you are a drama junkie....<p>Honey, you have a lot going for you. You're still young - 33, right? You have a fulltime job, you have a home business, you are actually financially independent of your H. You have family close to you, you have friends. You can afford a counsellor, you can invest time in therapy. You have 2 young children.<p>Do you see how much personal power you already have in your hands? Power to get out of this degrading destructive mess and build a clean, strong, healthy life.<p>Why is Honey giving away her power, allowing herself to dance frantically to the random jerking of her strings by her H? Why is Honey looking to her H to give her self-esteem? Why does Honey think she can only be good and nice if she enables her H's addictions? What about Honey? What about the kids?

I am taking care of me and the kids. I am going again to alanon today- I went to 2 parts of meetings and counseling yesterday.<p>I am feeling more upset...a s I have to let go... it is so hard to let go... I need a sponser in alanon...<p>I read a lot of alanon lit. last night... and it is my life... the alcoholism makes one nuts! I confess! I know I have so much going for me... <p>I am going to be fine with or without him... My son is in baseball and piano, and my younger son is also into all kinds of things... I hate that my parents are becoming psudeo parents too... but they are just excellent grandparents-I will be ok... I just wish my h would join in on the recovery... <p>I can't make him... and I do need to let go.<p>thanks for the continued support.. and sorry I am such a hard case. It is hard to get unbrainwashed from 10+ yrs of living with an alcoholic.<p>I am definitely examining myself... I am in counseling big time... and alanon big time. now... as I am even trying to go to a meeting every day I can... as I see how bad off I am in this disease... I act as crazed as an alcoholic.. and I am not one... ??? <p>thanks for the support.. despite my persistince to try to save what is unsavable without my h's work on it too. <p>Honey

Anger is a step toward recovery. You've given up false hope and you're not blaming yourself. You don't think you deserve this. If you are using the anger to distance yourself from a harmful situation maybe you won't hold onto the anger when it's healthy to let go of it. The anger may go away when you move away from the source of the hurt and anger. Just my opinion.<p>Also in my opinion there's always going to be women who think so little of themselves they'll allow men to use them as OW. I don't respect those women any more than they respect themselves. I do expect my SO to recognize a woman like that for what she is. He can pity her but he better run in the opposite direction right away.

Honey,
In any situation we find ourself in, there is always something in it for us, we get something out of it. The "it" might be good or bad, but we get something out of it or we would not stay in the situation. What do you get out of this situation? Are you bettering yourself, or stuck in the rut of being the poor victim- I've tried and tried, I am the good person and all he does is continue to beat me down- thus making you some type of martyr? Do you want to be a martyr for the rest of your life, and have someone else to blame for any shortcomings? What is this teaching your children? Take responsibility, and then ACT on it. It seems as if both you and your H have addictive tendencies, his is the bottle, and yours is him. What are you going to do about it? Where do you wnat to be in five years, or even next week? Take some time to think what is truelly in this situation for you, what you gain from it, and then decide if that is the life you want for yourself and your children. If it is then sit back and be happy, if it isn't ,THEN DO SOMETHING!!!! It also seems you have been angry at your H for a long time, now the OW is the perfect outlet for all of the bottled up anger. And you can get away with being angry at her in almost anyone's eyes because she is the homewrecker. Rethink where you need to place your energy and start daily affirming yourself and seeing all of the good you have to offer. You have a lot of life experience and can help so many people. hope you have a good day and also hope this is not too harsh. It isn't meant to be.

Honey-<p>Just keep moving forward. You are in alanon and counseling, thats good. You are being abused and have abused, that's not so good. But, you are recognizing this and seem to be processing it and that is a positive thing to be doing.<p>Eventually you will get to the point where you will say to yourself "enough is enough, I will not allow myself to be treated like this, I am worth so much more." When I got to that point, it felt like someone lifted a veil from in front of my face and everything became clear, I could see things as they really were, I could see myself for who I really am, and you know what, I like this place. Its peaceful, its beautiful, its where I want to be, and its all mine, no one can ruin it for me!<p>Your fighting for you, your H, your family and your M, it almost feels like a crusade or something, doesn't it? Remember that anger is a secondary emotion, it comes from frustration, confusion and fear. You are experiencing all of these feelings and get angry when you cant find a solution to them. Right now the only solution is for you to try and take a giant step back and let H go, let the A go, let his alcoholism go, let his abuse go. You cant help him right now, and I think once you do let this all go, you will begin to find the peace and serenity you are looking for and deserve.<p>This doesn't mean that the M is over, not by a long shot. All it means is that you are telling yourself and H that you deserve better, that you will settle for nothing less than the best, from both of you. Youre not losing him, if you were, I think he would have been long gone by now. <p>You and your H seem like two rams butting heads during rutting season. It's a spectacular thing to see and it sure makes a lot of noise, but in the end, it doesn't really accomplish anything, except maybe give you a really bad headache. Honey, please take a step back and try not to get pulled in to H's problems.