Please Help Anyone,<p>Last night my WH and I went to the gym. I was on a low because of the way he treats me ( like hes forced to be w/ me, like im the one who had the A, like he hates me.) . Sometimes its hard not to wear your heart on your sleeve. So he asked me what was wrong ( in an irritated way) and I simple said " nothing". Well it started from there. He was pressing me to tell him ( hes affarid I know hes still with OW. I do know but cant let him know.) So I tell him Its hard for me somedays to deal with this. Then he went on and on ,totaly not listening to me , talking about his feelings and what do I think hes going through. And dont I think hes hurting blah, blah, blah, me, me ,me.( not that his feelings arnt valid. Just that he acts like hes the BS).<p>So I ended up in tears. He ened up taking me home and then he took off ( to see OW Im sure). So I just wrote my heart out in my journal. He came home a couple hours later. We didnt speek. I wrote him a letter. Very understanding, no LBing at all. Saying I understand that he can not understand my pain because of his own. I will try not to wear my emotions on my sleeve. And if he would like to share w/me his feelings, I will listen and give him undivided attention. Because his feelings are valid and deserved to be heard. I let him know that I am here for him and I am still his friend. He should be reading it by this morning. The funny thing is he emailed me a letter as well. Which I just read. His said that here comes our age old problem( not comunicating). He feels we cant fix it and dont know how. And where do we go from here. I feel like hes using this excuse as a cop out. I feel like he keeps taking the focus off of what he did and putting it back on US, giving him an excuse to end it. Doing the , " you see we can never get along. This is never going to work". He keeps saying its not about her, its about us. I say we do have our problems we need to work on but we can even begin if your still seeing her. He keeps denying it. But I know he is seeing her forsure. I cant tell him cause he'll start a fight again.<p>Please help me. I have no idea how to handle this. I try my hardest not to give him reason to find excuses. But I feel like a doormat sometimes. Do I reply to his email or just leave it at my letter. How do I act, what do I say when he gets home?<p>PI

Sorry for your bad day. i know the feeling far too well. i know its hard to do but as the serenity prayer states "God grant me the serenity to accept the things you cannot change, courage to change things i can and the wisdom to know the difference." your WH seeing the OW or not is something you cannot control. i know that feeling of knowing or not knowing is pure hell and so unfair, but beating ourselves up with it when WS are not is unfair to ourselves. continue to try your best not to LB and try even harder to keep your sanity. don't show him that what he is or is not doing affects you in any way. believe me they take note of this. work on you, work on your healing. this was extremely difficult for me to do and still is, but i find the less i question or pry and snoop the better we get along. bottom line ws is going to do whatever they want regardless of what we do. like i've heard so many times before, make it as attractive as you can for WS to stay without LB and looking despirate.<p>keep your faith and hope! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>hopenden

I new here and really have not one bit of advice to give you. I am in your shoes and i found a quote here yesterday maybe it will help.<p>I don't have to trust him not to hurt me again. Because, I trust myself to be ok if he does. <p>My H is seperating from me to "Find HimselF" We are going to live in the same house. (We just built it together [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] He is going to see her (OW) until he gives me his final decision on Labor day I knew that the A at least the EA were still going on so this is best i hope

P.I.:<p>I'm really sorry you're having to go thru this horrible thing...it really stinks, doesn't it?<p>I'm not completely familiar with all of the MB principles, and I may not be the best one to help you with your problem here. But, with that being said, I've gotta wonder why anyone would allow their WS to stay KNOWING they were still involved in the affair after D-Day? IMO, there's no way your H can give you or your relationship the attention and focus required for real recovery as long as he's got a girlfriend on the side. <p>If it's not too intrusive, can I ask why you don't confront him with the fact that you know he hasn't broken contact with OW? Some WS will simply enjoy being a cake-eater until their spouse is totally broken and devastated! Please don't let him do that to you! You deserve so much better than this! I pray he will see what he's doing and what is at stake.<p>I wish you peace,<p>at peace

HELP ME! I CANT STOP!<p>I just did it again! I totaly LB'ed my WH at work on the phone. I told him we cant even begin to work on us if hes still in contact w/OW. HE DENYS IT TO HIS GRAVE! And treats me like poop for saying that. I know for a fact he is still talking to her. I can not disclose info on this site ( in fear of him being a luker). I cant stand him lying to me and putting all of this on me! He keeps saying the problem isnt her, its us. I keep saying we cant even begin to work on us until she is totaly out of the picture. We are getting know where. And I feel like thats what he wants. He wants an excuse to end it. Now he can say hes tryed, but I ( me) just couldnt let it go. This is what he tells his friends and family, he so conveniantly forgets to mention OW is still in the picture. <p>I dont know what to do. Im so confused. I want to give up sometimes. I know thats what he wants. Make it easier for him. Which I dont want to make it easier for him. But I dont want to drive him to her even more. He keeps saying Im making it worse. I say the same thing. <p>I need help bad! I want to leave before he gets home, but I know it will make this worse.<p>PI

Dear PI,<p>If you need to leave, leave. If he gets angry at you, that is a sign. I told my H that when he got angry at me. Then I learned to give 'the look'. I am the strong one in our family but I have since learned that H wants a 'softer/gentler/easily bruised?!?!? W? Ok, now he gets the look and it starts his brain working (why is she looking like that)? LOL!!! <p>I also told my H that I do not feel safe. I am scared that the OW may show up in any shape or form (leaving a message, on the doorstep, in the mail, e-mail, fax, etc.). Then I said it was up to him to make me feel safe and if he could not then he needed to leave. <p>You need to decide what is important to you. Tolerating his A and lies or your safety, your protection/comfort zone. but you must also be prepared to live with the consquences of your decision. Plan B??!??<p>
L.

Don't allow yourself to be sucked into these conflicts. Do not engage in the combat. Let go. Let him say whatever he wants to say. In your mind, you know the truth. Stand firm in that in your mind. Just be a sponge and absorb what he says. If he asks what's wrong, tell him the truth--you are sad because of the status of your relationship. If he goes off on you, just use these responses--rehearse them ahead of time:<p>Mm-Hmm.<p>I hear you.<p>Anything else?<p>Uh-huh.<p>You already said that.<p>Anything else?<p>and so on.<p>Don't take his bait anymore. Keep using your journal. If he wants to work on the M, then you can propose starting with the extraordinary precautions from SAA. If he has nothing to hide, then none of that should be a problem.<p>[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Thank you All so much for your advise,<p>It really helps me. This is just so hard for me. We did it again last night. Big time LBing. I couldnt stop. I was crying and telling him how much hes hurt me blah,blah,blah. ( knowing that he wont except what hes done or understand). Its like I know what Im supposed to do but I let my emotions get the best of me. I know now because of the threats Ive made in the recent past, he is making his own plan B. I should of never opened my big mouth. One step forward, 5 steps back again. I thought I was doing so good. I dont think I can handle his A and his Lies. Sometimes I just want to leave. But I know Im not ready for Plan B. <p>Its like I dont want him thinking he can get away with what hes doing and I want him to see what hes done to me. But I know I cant make him do anything. So why do I keep trying? <p> I will be sure to use those words next time. I cant let him get to me anymore. Thats what he wants. Im not in fear for my safety at all. I just cant stand the way were getting along. And the OW is actualy scared of me! Isnt that a joke. <p>So what do I say when he wants to talk and all he has to say is how we cant comunicate. Hes always avoiding the real issue and when I mention it , it just upsets him. Should I just not mention it and just talk about us? But to me the problem is #1 the A, then we can deal with us. He seems to think our problems have nothing to do with his A. The funny thing is before , right before he met her, we were happy ( so I thought) ( so he lead me to believe). Yes we had our problems, but I had no idea they were that bad.<p>Please help!<p>PI

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>So what do I say when he wants to talk and all he has to say is how we cant comunicate. Hes always avoiding the real issue and when I mention it , it just upsets him. Should I just not mention it and just talk about us? But to me the problem is #1 the A, then we can deal with us. He seems to think our problems have nothing to do with his A. The funny thing is before , right before he met her, we were happy ( so I thought) ( so he lead me to believe). Yes we had our problems, but I had no idea they were that bad.
<hr></blockquote><p>First, he has to make the effort and committment to no contact with the OW. if he doesn't then you have a decision to make. work your plans a know this or work plan b. not an easy decision by any stretch. <p>Second, WS don't want to hear anything we have to say about their A. our opinions don't count, nor are they wanted. i too thought things were looking up during the time my WW had her A. i came to realize, yes i created an atmosphere ripe for infedility, but i didn't make her do it. she made the decision to cheat, not me. she is responsible for that. <p>Try to stay calm when you discuss issues. communication is key, if you lb and get angry you are giving him fuel to drive his get away car. no fuel, hard to drive away. i know this is hard, i see so much of me in your posts. i am learning that arguing, demanding, questioning, doubting, snooping, all of this just hurts ME and angers my WW. so what good does it do.....NONE. come post here and be the best PI you can be and your WH will notice....or not but at least it will better you.<p>Take care [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
hopenden

P I - I have really no good advice except to tell you that I am in the same shoes I have been with my husband 19 yrs married 14.5 he had affair 04-01 until 10-01 then he told me... Said it was over I found out they were still talking on 11-30 then I just drove him crazy he says for the next 6 months snooping, not trusting - and I to always feel like he is pushing me the to extreme to make the decision to finally end it. I too was happy he is now saying he hasn't been happy for 10 years or so - its like everything is my fault and he was fine until the guilt started eating away at him in about August and I kept asking him if he had a girlfriend... Well now we are supposedly getting divorced but he says that he can't do that financially to the kids so we are stuck with each other.. and everyone thinks I am nuts because I am putting up with so much but I love him and just basically think he has lost his mind... And I am hoping he gets it back before it is to late... I just wanted you to know that there are more people in your shoes... And yes it hurts - good luck...

PI -- I saw your post on Gen. Qs. What should you do? I think if you can leave it at your letter you should and if he raises it with you directly; try and stick to the concepts/words you used in your letter.
It is HARD I know (and I'm not always so good at taking my own advice in the heat of the moment). Your WH and mine (and most others that I see described on this board) absolutely are trying to use the "problems" in your relationship to justify their ongoing affairs. <p>It stinks big time, but it is a part of what they have to do. It was explained to me as cognitive dissonance -- they have to make up things in their mind and try to convince themselves that is reality when it is not as their only way of coping in doing something that they KNOW DARN WELL is JUST PLAIN WRONG AND CRUEL. It's like their minds just can't cope with the fact they are doing something so awful (the dissonance part). They have to do to this because they are not ready to admit they are doing something really, really wrong and that it doesn't comport with what human beings should do to eachother.<p>It helps me to know that many of the WH are doing this same thing -- it helped me to see that it was NOT specific to me. Sure, we all (BS) did things that contributed to the withering of our marriages BUT that in no way justifies the affair, the behavior, and the crazy-making of how they try to pin the whole thing on the BS.<p>You just have to ride it out and recognize that this comes from the cognitive dissonance/the coping/the alien invading their body to help them cope. He HAS to believe he's justified in order to function. It's not right. It's not accurate, but it's what's happening in his mind. It's crazy-making for me and you.<p>I hope one of the old timer responds to your post in GQII. I can only offer my support and empathy. I am going through the exact same thing. My WH is trying to say we're incompatible and always have been. Why the doodle would you stay with somebody for 14 years if we were so darn incompatible? It just doesn't make sense based on all of the good things/good times and struggles we have been through. What your WH is saying to you now is NOT REALITY. Keep remembering that.<p>Also remember that you are good and strong and are being the best mother and wife you can be right now. <p>You are in my prayers

Sounds like you need the Last Resort Technique from The Divorce Remedy by Michele Weiner-Davis.<p>If he says you have a problem with communication, agree with him: "Yes, we do." Do not initiate any talks about the A, about your M, about "us". Just leave it all alone for now. He is not listening. He does not care. He is in lalaland. There is no reason to waste your time and energy pursuing a rational conversation with someone who is irrational.