My H and I did not do well with my attempted plan b... it has been a while since I tried it... I think sometime in march.... if I could only take it back! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I did not do plan b... my h lb'd me pretty badly when I sd I cannot see you if... you cannot work on M and go to counseling... etc.<p>I got hysterical and desperate... some of you know. I majorly lb'd with several angry outbursts and desperate needy actions with continuous phone calls.<p>I am trying hard to pull myself together.<p>My H now says there is still a chance for reconciliation, but he does not feel safe around me or trust me. <p>He knows I drove by his home to ck on him.... as once... he was outside with suspe cted inapprop. realtionship with the maid... and I stopped my car and confronted the two.... there were a couple of other confrontations with this maid. If anything is going on with her...my H is using her. She is not his type for any sort of relationship... but I am sure he could use her.<p>I got an added dose on my effexor since I was losing control... and I do think it is helping... but only 2 days into this. I am attempting alanon meetings daily and or even considering codependents of sex addicts... per my h's admission to other short term a's prior in our marriage... his porn infatuation... and also.... the poss. of his having some sort of sf with the maid... which makes me want to throw up all over the place [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I do hope this is my imagination. He admitted to taking her to dinner per his loneliness and said they are friends... she speaks little english is young and attractive and flirtatious... left several vm's to my h... i love you much o much o mucho... and call me , my baby... I am dying- OK.... with all the reviews and opinions of my friends... everyone says do not be stupid something is going on... the day I drove by she was out on front porch with my h... smoking.... also drove by at 9 am and her truck was outside... also once at 330 pm when I was arranged to come get vaccum cleaner...<p>this whole arrangement started when My h asked someone at the local grocery store... pop. mex. amer. neighborhood... to find or refer someone to clean cheap... H says he only uses her since she is cheap. I would not clean for him... he asked me too and volunteered to pay... so now... this girl goes through my h's home... and all his stuff.. irons his shirts... arranges his bed and closet... and does so flirtatously and for practically nothing.... he is attractive and to her he must look rich... although he is still unemployed, month 6- he blew all his severence pay... some of which went to me and the kids... and now just gets unemployment...<p>He just sold an old car of ours.... and had her clean it up for him... with him... as I knew they went to the car wash together cleaning it... and he says he uses her to do shirts etc... since it is so cheap... and his rent is 1200 a month on this house... (our home mortgage is 1000), and so he is having her clean so that he can get a roommate... this has been ongoing for over a month , his search for roommate... we also had big argument over male / female roommate situation right at beginning of my start of plan b... I had sd can't see you without more work on relationship ... and if you rent room to female... I will def. not work on M. My H is now saying he wants male roommate..<p>My h has been sleeping late alot... so on my 9am drive by... I went balistic banging on his door... like that was going to work.... because I assumed she must of spent the night.... I pray I am wrong.<p>BTW.... my youngest son spent night with H and H took maid and her daughter and my son who is 3 to ride a small amusement ride in a parking lot... my h claims that he did not want her alone at huis house... and was waiting for her car to be fixed... (whatever)..? my son was begging to ride ride.... and so my h took all of them on a ride or a few rides... I understand these were some small rides at a grocery parking lot... or perhaps in front of a local mall... for you houstonians... NWest mall often has rides out in the parking lot.... a small fairway type things.... I am terrified he took her there.<p>Also shortly after she started cleaning... I was at his house... and a National Geographic Magazine highlighting Mexico and all the wonderful things about it... showed up on the back of his toilet.... ???? why the sudden interest - my thoughts are my H is starting to fall for this mex. beauty... and trying to understand her culture? <p>She is young, 20 or so... and my H is continually commenting on how fat I am... 15 pounds to go to my size 6 again! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I am getting there! But it just hurts.... <p>Obviously my lb's over this new "friend" or whatever... have been bad.... Having gotten one ow out of the picture... thanks to success in plan aing and also patience... etc... I was in the clear... and I really feel when I refused to clean his house... that I should of cleaned for him... and that I messed up... he would of never gotten her. I was spending the the night at my leisure and he was spending lots of time with me. We have regressed back to sqaure one... with my angry outbursts and lb's ... I di feel soemthing is going on. If he respects me... which he says he cannot because of my actions how can he keep her employed or in his life?<p>I am so hurt! It is like insult to injury. But I feel I must restart plan a.<p>Unfortunately there is another caveat to this sad story. I went to an ER clinic to be evaluated for medication evaluation... and told them of my uncontrollable angry outbursts.. with these ow's... etc. I have gotten very angry when lied to... manipulated... called names and now not allowed at h's house without permission sort of routine.... or he will call 911... quite harsh... so anyway... I really am <p>detrimental to my own self and desires when i do these angry outburts... the poeple at the ER>.. suggested, and only suggested.. that I look into the possibility of being a borderline personality disorder.. since this type of person has rage and uncontrollable outburst... and major abandonment issues when being abandoned or criticized.. these are the places I rage and blow up. My H says he cannot live with me raging and acting like this. I understand... my point is... and er sd this type of personality does well in solid loving relationship...it is the criticism and the abandonment that borderlines go bezerk on... and that people get this way often from childhood and how they were treated , etc.<p>Dont' get me wrong.. my parents are wonderful and tdid the best they could.. but they were full of high expectations and extremely critical.. and I had NO EMOTIONAL support that I needed.<p>When I fell in love with my H I had all the love and support I had ever needed in my life.. that is why I want him back so badly... <p>but, he lb's me majorly with criticism., name calling, put downs , etc... all common for an alcoholic... I NEED A LOT MORE LOVE THAN THIS><p>I think he thinks his lb's come from my actions... and that I do bad things so he says bad things... but I think it is the opposite... but who knows anymore. <p> If I am agreeable he is usually too. But for now I have to prove myself again due to angry outbursts.. and what he calls trolling through his neighborhood... <p>I am so hurt that he is not available to me. I am considering writing a ltter or email explaining this... as that is what I did begginning of last plan a... that worked..<p>I know he loves me deeplhy.... I just wish this man could see if he could hold me and love me and make our relationship safe... at least try... we would be ok??? <p>He keeps looking for that blame... oh and I told him they sd I should look into the borderline things.. and now he even told me on the phone today that I am mentally ill... and he wants to have distance right now... what love? he has criticized me at least 3 ways today... saying I keep thehouse a mess... not exactly true... what else... he can't trust me... what else?<p>I know some of you here have told me I do not take criticism well. I guess I do not... I am overly senseitve as my whole life there has always been something wrong with me... to my parnets... still is, I will never be good enough for my mom... never ending battel.... and my H used to be totally accepting of me... before the OW>.. I never heard all of this.. you are fat, and the house is a pigsty... stuff... that is just so mean... ???? <p>I kind of wish I had not told him of the possibility of my problems... as he just throws it in my face... <p>I also found out... one of the pain medications I have been on ... makes a person very uninhibited! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] and willing to go to extreme reactions... and I also started depoprovera not long ago as well.<p>Thanks for being here, I hope to hear some kind supportive words... I am sorry to ask for that... but I am really down and quite tired of ridicule after all my h's comments today... I cried a lot today... with real pain... in that he cannot just love me and work with me to recover from this pain... He sd I think you may never get over this A... well, gee would it help if he tried to assure me of his love... but the more beaten down I am by him... and his A, etc.- the less he wants me and the less desirable I am.<p>it is true... we must truly reach recovery... as I believe his guilt is too much to talk about the a and help me recover from it right now... we have to cross that bridge later... oh, also his pride... he does not want to admit... how much pain and trouble he brought into our relationship.. which used to be so special- he wants to say... SEE, you drove me to it. See, it is YOU YOU YOU><p>
thanks, HONEY [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

Honey,<p>I thought about you the last few days, i'm headed out for a soccer torunament & wanted you to know that you and your family are in my prayers & that you are loved & thought of often.<p>Gotta run,<p>God Bless<p>D.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Hi Will get through this... I see some real similaries in our stories with several ow's now to worry about for me... I am so sorry... I am also really in psuedo plan b.. while plan aing... because in your face.. I won't see you if you don't work on marriage... did and does not work for my husband... he wants nice behavior to prove he can be with me... but he wants seperatenss since he does not trust me???? My temper that is... well it is funny that the temper comes from being severely taken advantage of... nothing else.... but definitely no way to bring my H back.<p>I appreciate your thoughts and concerns for us. I too think of you, and I am praying for you and all of us in this and these situations daily.<p>thanks, H

Honey,
I'm glad you are seeking help and hope the added meds even out your emotions.<p>Your H's situation with being unemployed & having a maid makes no sense, no matter how cheap she is, he doesn't have the money for it and does have the time to clean. But, you know that.<p>Keep your cool, I'm pulling for you to come out of this a strong person.

Thanks for the support Lor, and everyone.. things are dying down... H just picked up kids until tomorrow... even sd he would try to take them to church.. We also now have in order a better arrangement with no drinking and driving , as H knows if he shows up with liquor on his breath, I will not let the kids go with him.<p>Anyway, difficult situation. I wanted a hug when I saw him... so sad. He says he is probably, don't yuou love it, probably going to come by for dinner tomorrow night when he brings back the kids.<p>Dealing with it all a lot better, I do think the increased does helps a lot. Doc sd I was on very low dosage... <p>After alnaon this morning, not so sure I am borderline personality... but a flaming Codependent who is way overreactive and reacting to everything my H does ... <p>Convenient that he gets to blame me for all the problems in our marriage due to that.... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I do think he will come home some day, when I do not know... but If I can wait as long as he wants me to I also do not know. I am feeling a lot freer and more desrving of happiness lately. I am noting all of his abuse and pointing it out to him quite calmly and telling him I will not tolerate it... IT IS WORKING... maybe the calmness is just the right element. Strange my H is a gentle man... a guitar player... that makes him even more romantic to me... he has written me wonderful love songs... <p>It just hurts that he would stray, a lot. But I know I deserve better, and he cannot convince me that I deserve this. <p>I also know since he has the kids on Saturday night... he will have to wonder what I am doing tonight! Now, I am not trying to be mean, but he does wonder! That makes me feel at lesat a little missed! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] That's michele weiner's 180 isn't it... not answering even if I am here! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] WOW, I am getting some of this... now can I stay here?<p>Thanks for being here, Honey

Honey ~ I think I've said this to you a number of times: until you get recovery for yourself, you absolutely can not have recovery in your marriage. <p>This has nothing to do with your H's disease or actions. It has to do with you, your behavior and YOUR reaction to his addictions.<p>What you are - is co-dependent, and emotionally dependent. Perhaps you are borderline, perhaps not. You are simply reacting to the sick and dysfunctional people in your life. There is absolutely nothing you can do to fix them. What you can fix is how you react to their diseases. What everyone here has watched you do over the weeks, has been to fix your H, rather than fix you.<p>I think that once you start respecting and loving yourself (which you don't), you will be capable of loving someone else (which you aren't). THEN you can come here and talk about working towards marital recovery.<p>Give yourself a year of hard hard work, while detaching from EVERYTHING your H is doing. Then decide in a year, from a newer, healthier perspective if you need or want THIS man in your life.<p>Honey, there was a point where I had to just assume that my H was lying no matter what he said. I also assumed at all times that he was doing the worst. What a relief. I no longer had to check, I simply accepted that was who he was.<p>I stopped focusing on what he was doing, and focused on me and what I needed. When *I* get better, our relationship had no option but to change. Because I had changed, my H decided to change into someone I could live with. I HAD TO CHANGE BEFORE HE WOULD. It isn't a contest about who is more right.<p>Focus on you and stop paying attention to him. Trust me, a healithier you will make healthier choices.<p>Getting love and marital commitment from your H is like trying to get bread and milk at the hardware store. So stop going there and throwing temper tantrums that hammers and nails are where YOU have decided that bread and milk should be!

Honey,<p>Just got back from soccer tournament & then neighborhood picinic (Grr, that's in another post)<p>I think that BrambleRose is very wise, no doubt has learned a lot from personal experience & that's a great teacher. Honey, I think you would be very wise to really read & let what Bramblerose is saying to you sink in. Ask the Lord for help. Ask him how you should look at you and your marriage. <p>It hurts deeply to be where you are, and I know from personal experience. In 1992, our lives were an absolute mess, WH was partying up a storm, A's likely (I never confronted it, just used SF to loor him in) I was co-dependent & began to realize that I let this man (this messed up man) rule my life.<p>I did an intervention on him (took a while cuz he was like a slippery fish) and eventually he went to rehab. Right before he left, we had the greated Sf of our lives (wow, just thinking aobut it.... [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] ) and he was vulnerable, the guy I remembered from our dating years.<p>After he came out of rehab, he didn't go to AA or work the program. Funny thing is, I did. The 12 steps are a fantastic way to live. I got better, he didn't. (I used to party with him B4 kids)<p>He held it together for a few years but eventually started drinking again. (I didn't)
When he left in March of '99 to care for his sick Dad, that put him right back where he grew up with all of his party "friends" (not true friends) He found comfort in them including a Widow that he had known from HS and a "friend fo a friend"......

Anyway, I had changed, I wasn't anywhere near the co-dependant that I had been. I stood firm in that I did the right thing by God & for myself during the time he has been away.<p>On dDay #1 (Oct 01) I called him & told him it was over. He asked what was over (???DUH???) Our M!!!!! He told me - "you've changed". I replied "yes, I have" That knocked the wind out of his sails. I guess he thought I would get into a bid argument or something.<p>Everyday I use the 12 steps and what I've gotten from my prayer group. Looking back, my self-esteem has grown, my self-confidence, my spriritual life has grown in leaps and bounds.<p>Honey, I live near Destin, Fl (the most beautiful beaches in the world) so if you get over this way from Houston, you let me know. I would love to get together & share experiences with you.<p>Sorry, this got long winded. Honey, you can get though this.<p>God Bless,<p>D.<p> [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

{{{{{{{{honey}}}}}}},
Just wanted to ditto Branblerose and WillGetThruThis. I can't say it any better than they did, but I wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. I'm so sorry for your tough situation. You're doing so good - especially by coming here for support, and identifying things YOU can work on for YOU!!!<p>By the way, I'm going to be in Houston next weekend. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I will post an MB get-together lunch for anyone that can come. I hope to meet you! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Take care [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Hang in there Honey and vent in here [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . You will get through this, we have to deal with our self and understand where we want to go. Some get there faster and some have to come slowly. Just remember that we are all here to support you.
-RH-

Hi ands thanks everyone again... I am doing WAY better... I had to vent again my maid story earlier, sorry I do think I obsessed quite a bit over this... and there is no answer.<p>BR, I do like that concept of really believing he is doing the worst no matter what. Strangely, I was in a better place with myself and doing for me before his A, and his leaving... (guess I still needed him)- but I put me first all the time... etc. <p>I am starting to get back to that... I DO know I thought he would never LEAVE or cheat... at least I hoped not... I did wonder.. but he had told me so many times... how much he loved me... and whenever I had reason to doubt him.. he professed his undying love and faithfulness.. and made me feel the loon for thinking he was any different than a faithful man completely in love with me.<p>I Deserve better.<p>That one night my h called and confessed there had been others.... in our marriage.. though one nighters , etc... he has since sd he did this to hurt me and push me away... he has.... but I have swung the pendelum between anger and desperation... and not quite reached peace. <p>This is a hard journey, finding out your true love who you (unfortunately in my case) sacrificed and put ahead of yourself so much of the time. ... now not always- I guess this is where my guilt comes in and boy does he love to play on it... that if I had paid him more attention he wuoldn't of done this... etc. etc... If I had not went to spend a few weekends with my bestfriend in austin over the years.... perhaps 5- 6 times over 10 yrs of marriage.. and that one wedding I went to in New York without him... I went with my sister and it was one of my best friends... OH yea.... he was invited, in fact I begged and pleaded with him to go for a little vacation with me... he refused to go! But sulked for 5 yrs and counting about it... that I went without him... Of course I was going to one of my best friends weddings! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>ANyway, TODAY, I ha ve felt just great... this morning had a phone call with him... not so good... but later got better quickly... PERHAPS... I can't take him back... it seems to look as if he does not see how he should treat me... thus, a lot of my suffering... <p>He does not know how to be married or a good husband... he has tried, lord knows that.. and he has a good heart.. though a confused and hurtful one and a mean spirit at times... I believe from his own pains.. but he must heal from it... and A's , alcohol or etc. can not change that..<p>I am realizing more what I am missing.... so much I used to enjoy and I have let go because of this pain and this A. <p>I know that the A and his leaving coupled with my back injury and the extreme amount of medications I have been on over the last two years has been very detrimental to me. Unfortuatley the med;s and my condition also contributed to the downfall of our marriage , so did a lot of things... a lot of things together...<p>He has to want to be a good H, he does not right now... YOu good people are right.<p>he ways he is waiting to see if he can trust me? What? How about being trustable yourself dear? <p>It is hard... but I am working on me. I have so much I want to do and plan to do, and yes, it is possible without him! So I am happier... I have been to 3 meetings this week alanon and some extra counseling and meds,,.. that helped [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Yes, FAITH, email about a lunch day! How wonderful! that would be great, would love to meet... and<p>thanks Will Get Through This - for your strength and hope... my sil is in Miami, and who knows perhaps I will make it to Destin again. We lived in Atlanta for 5 + years, my h is (was) 5th generation atlantan.... and we used to go to Destin... in fact we went there for our first "family" trip with our first born son , he was only a few months old... and it was so much fun! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] If I make it there I would love to meet you too!<p>I really appreciate all the strength and hiope and support.. thanks REDHAT and Bramble ROSE... I know you have been there....<p>It is just so sad... to go so far from where you want your life to be... but it takes two! AND yes, I CANNOT FORCE solutions.... as much as I would like to.... <p>Thanks again for being here, Honey

http://www.growthtrac.com/discover/cb011/<p>Honey, I found this link on the Emotional Needs board. Please read it through and realise that you can do NOTHING at all for your H. <p>I too am a flaming codependent, but I'm in recovery and going to stay there if it kills me! I'd like to share something with you that I worked out for myself on Friday night. I was about to plunge into another bout of depression because my FWH is working really hard on a talk he has to give soon. He's compulsive-obsessive and a perfectionist workaholic. So I was feeling rather lonely and unloved.<p>I realised in a flash what my IC has been telling me for six months now - that I really don't know HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF. That doesn't mean how to look out for myself in this big bad world. It means that I don't know how to nurture myself.<p>So my H has been practically my only source of nurture and self-esteem. How unhealthy is that!! Means that when he's otherwise occupied, I'm going hungry like a kid who'll lie on the couch and moan because Mom's out when the kitchen is full of food...<p>This doesn't mean I should expect nothing at all from him. It does mean I need to nurture myself fully so the loving things he does are overflow into my being. The problem with having all your nurture come from outside is that there is a bloody big hole in the bucket and it runs out as fast or faster than it runs in.<p>I think I told you before, I was married previously. My XH is an abusive alcoholic. 17 years of this, 2 nervous breakdowns, 15 years of clinical depression. I was told during this marriage by a prayer group that I should submit myself unto my husband as unto the Lord, and I would be blessed. They "forgot" to tell my XH that he should love me as Christ loves the church. So he kept on with his abusive behaviour, sanctified now by this wellmeaning group of people lacking commonsense or understanding of the Christian principles of marriage, and the kids and I were slowly but surely ground down. Until the priest and elders of my church, my family doctor, and the psychiatrist I was forced to go see, all told me within a week that I should get the hell out while I could still walk out, that this so-called marriage was a worse sin than any divorce could ever be. These were unsolicited opinions; our family doctor was so worried that he phoned me at work for an emergency appointment.<p>I did exactly what you're doing. Blamed myself and took on all the responsibility for my XH's actions. Blamed myself for his drinking - if I were a better wife, more loving, more sexy, a better cook, thinner, fatter, blonder, he wouldn't do these hurtful things to punish me. I turned myself upside down and inside out trying to please him. But he kept changing the goalposts. He was addicted to the cruelty, you see.<p>And the few good times, the odd occasions when he was nice to me and brought me flowers or whatever, those were my lifelines.<p>Honey, your H has never treated you like a princess..... what is a lovesong after all? I'm a writer, I can churn out love poems by the dozen when I'm in the mood...<p>He's admitted to several other As besides the one he left you for. He's definitely still sexually promiscuous. He's always been an unpredictable drinker, lashing out at you whenever the mood takes him, even when sober.<p>So FORGET HIM!! He can't give you what you need. You can get that within yourself. You have no chance of a healthy marriage unless and until you yourself are healthy.<p>BTW, I started off on Effexor and it had lousy side-effects. I'm now on 40mg Prozac per day, and feeling better all the time.<p>Hang in there, keep away from him, don't phone him, give yourself a chance to heal. As long as you stay in his crazy dance, why should he bother to change his tune? But don't think of Plan A or B as ways to get him back. Plan A and B are for YOU, to help you grow and heal and to protect you. If the side-effect is to attract your WS back into range, and catalyse him into changing himself, that's nice, but it's not the goal.

Hi Juststartingover and everyone else. I had a wonderful weekend with no calls to the WS. WOW, and YES it FEELS GOOD! He is already wondering what I have been up to.. and too bad it is? RIght? THat is not the only reason it feels good... it feels good to be treated nicely and kindly by people and he does not treat me right..... so the kids, my sister and my friends... opeople I have been around this weekend... were all wonderful! Isn't that just great!?<p>I have rested taken care of me... and gotten a little nurturing for me. Maybe a divorce is not the end? Right? I am so sick of this abuse I could throw up... and Yes, I go so crazy trying to convince him of what is going on... and all I get is ABUSE. I am so tired of being tormented.. THANKS for the affirmations that I am not a looney toon... when dealing with him... how easily I get convinced that I am... SO SAD- there was a sweet love... but a lot of it... was when I too, was young and irresponsible... he was overly romantic and pursuing... <p>I thought him faithful... and he was not... thanks for that reminder... HE IS A LIAR.<p>I am not quite ready to date, etc... as I am married... but I even looked at date.com and started wondering.... I registered for free... for fun... and even got an email... I registered as only looking for friendship... perhaps... I might go on a dinner... but I know that could spell troublle... no I do not want others to give me my esteem and nurtuting... I can do it myself. I will be careful in this area... and I am very very very reluctant to even meet anyone... but that I got an email the moment I registered... or within 10 minutes... make sme think... HEY>.. I used to be saught after and adored by men... and I married this sorry sob who treats me like crap>>>>? // /wait a minute?<p>Tonight I am doing a manicure and parafin wax on my hands and legs... can't wait! My kids are being brought home shortly by WS... not really even looking forward to seeing his bloody face! So there! I am sick of the lies.... <p>Update later... let me just get through this week , one day at a time... taking care of me! thanks for remeinding me that I should!<p>Hugs, HONEY

Hold on to this strength and confidence, Honey. Hold on to it. <p>Watch out on those dating ideas, though!!!<p>Be strong when you see him. Try not to talk much, k? Plan ahead - what if he wants to talk - what if he asks you questions, etc. Can you have somewhere to be - someone on the phone - or dinner on the stove... so that your visit can be as brief as possible?<p>Hang in there - you're sounding strong - don't let yourself go back down the coaster!!!

Honey, Hi and good for you. When I first say the title of your post, I thought oh no, she has lost her mind!!! But thankfully I was so wrong, sometimes it feels great to be wrong. I hope you continue to seek healing for yourself and leave the rest in God's hands. You will find yourself in a much better place. Keep up the good work, and ps, if you soak your feet in hot vinegar water it will make them very soft, and smell like Easter!! haha. It does work, just wash and lotion them good afterwards.