My husband went out to his buddy's tonight with my blessing--I didn't care to go because all they do is chain smoke, drink beer and talk about work stuff. Man things.<p>Anyways, I was on the PC--totally bored, just kind of surfing around, looking at this and that when I got curious about the message board that my husband met his OW at, way back in 1999. I looked at it just for S's and G's.<p>There, posted recently, was a poignant message from OW to my husband, including all kinds of pics of her nasty face--here it is, three years later!!!!!!!<p>She writes "(my husband,) where ever you are, I never stop thinking about you. . ."<p>After the HELL SHE PUT ME THROUGH!!!!<p>After taking my INNOCENT LITTLE BOY away from his father!!!!!!!!!!!!!<p>After causing the chain of events that lead to the end of my career, that I loved so dearly!!!!!!<p>All I can think of is the nights that I spent working in a factory so my kids and I could eat. . .about not having a washing machine (but never mind, after my husband and I separated, I had only three outfits and 5 pairs of underwear) Getting phone calls from creditors about bills (the unearned portion of my army re-up bonus) that I couldn't pay<p>Going to my kindergartener's parent teacher's conference alone, wondering if my husband even gave the slightest s**t--hearing him try to blame me for any trouble my son was having, however<p>My poor kid--I still see the aftermath of what happened in his young life--he is a wonderful, handsome, sweet little boy, yet he has zero self esteem, he has trouble making friends, a lot of trouble in school<p>My family disowned my husband, now they are not speaking to me because I came back to him--do you know how much this hurts?!!!!!!! I have lost my parents and my brothers out of this.<p>My marriage will never be the same, it will always have scars, I will never trust him again. I will always be hypervigilant about guarding my heart--I will always fight viciously against being hurt like that again, rather than love freely like I once did.<p>All this because of her.<p>And she has no shame, none at all.<p>Is there justice? Did she suffer at all? No! Here she is, bragging about her vacations, showing off her little travel journal of her post-affair/post divorce vacations, pretty new clothes, talking about how she is invincible and life won't get her down, and here she is, three years later, telling my husband that she still loves him and is still waiting for him.<p>OH MY GOD!!!<p>My questions: <p>Do some people never learn?<p>Why do some people have no conscience?<p>Am I really just an idiot that asks to be screwed over?<p>Are the workings of this world just the nature of the beast, just like it is in the animal kingdom, dog eat dog, or is there really such a thing as charity and empathy? Am I a fool to be so idealistic?<p>It would occur to some women that after you suck a guy's dingaling for a couple of months that he will say anything to you--did that not occur to her as well? Duh!<p>I feel so sick tonight--I feel like running far away and never coming back.<p>I know this is all dumb, but I am so upset. Please say something to comfort me--anyone?<p>[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Bernzini ]</p>

Bernzini,
Dang.<p>I think seeing something like that would make me mad as a hatter as well. So, if it makes you feel better, I think your reaction is normal.<p>I doubt this changed your opinion of her. I'm sure you didn't like or respect her and you still don't. And aren't likely to.<p>She isn't your problem.<p>I'm sorry about your family, that must be painful. <p>Neither you or your H can change the past or the way other people behave. You can control you and the way you face the present and hope for the future.<p>Some days just aren't any good, but others are better. I wish a better tomorrow for you.<p>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Bernzini}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Hugz Berzini,<p>Sorry you were hit with those pix and words. Unfortunately some never learn......until it is too late. Rememeber the BS who said last year that the OW was killed in a car accident? I don't recall the OW changed her ways before her life ended. So some never do. <p>Now regarding U. U are the one that is important to us. Yes, you and your family took a real beating from this cruddy OW. Can't that place be banned from your computer? I blocked the OW's addys from H's e-mails so 'if' she tried to send something it would be returned. I know she can create another because she had several. I will just keep blocking the ones I find and H is aware. I check his e-mail fairly regularly. The reason why that was good was because in my case the OW used her addy names to reflect their A (ie: KandS@xxx.com) or something similar. So having that add be rejected was like a punch in her face. 2 2 other times, I notified hotmail of some bad pix & content and they deemed it was pornographic/violent and shut down the account. Another punch in her face.<p>Where does your H stand on this now? Will you tell him? <p>Take Care,
L.

I have a rip-roaring migraine and was just coming out to check MB one last time before my s-kids get here, and saw this... <p>Forgive me if I don't say things right, MY ACHING HEAD...<p>Bernzini, you are a beautiful woman with a tender spirit. You returned to your H despite advice to dump his a$$, because you believe in your marriage, and you loved the idiot. I have been there.<p>No, some people never learn.<p>Yes, the OW is a callous, hateful, vindictive, piece of crap, who doesn't give one rats a$$ about you, your son, or your marriage.<p>YOUR HUSBAND BETRAYED YOU, and CONTINUES (by having this crap on the computer STILL)...<p>So, what will you do with this info?<p>I think you have some decisions to make, YET AGAIN. It's soooooo unfair, I know. Why must all of this be on YOUR shoulders? It stinks.<p>Offering lots of hugs, loads of good wishes, and sending you some extra strength as you travel this road... this continuing road... that never seems to end.

Well, Lor, thank you, I appreciate your comforting words.<p>I WAS trying to find respect, or clost to it, for the OW. Forgiveness for her--me, being a Christian, and being told that I must forgive, that it was a sure-fire way to get rid of the poison in my own heart. After all, we all make mistakes, we all screw up, we all are selfish from time to time. Me included. I can't point any fingers.<p>My husband, I would hope that he learned from his "mistake." However, it is now obvious to me that OW didn't even make a mistake. Go figure.<p>She shouldn't be my problem, but she is. I hate her with all my heart and soul.<p>Orchid--this is the problem. My marriage is healing. But only because I know how to keep my mouth shut and leave him be--boy howdy, I have learned. And as far as having an agreement about sharing our e-mail passwords with one another, there is none. I would be pushing it to ask for an agreement, wimp that I am. He has always had my password with my blessing--I always have been and always will be an open book, I hide nothing. And he opens my account every other day, I believe.<p>He has his work account here, and I believe that is the only one he really uses anymore. (All his work-friends can contact him there.) I am pretty sure that he doesn't use his hotmail or yahoo anymore--nevertheless, he refuses to give me the passwords. Actually, he treats me like I am dumb and says that he doesn't have accounts there. (He always yells when he says this.)<p>When he gets home from his buddy's house tonight (or this morning, I should say,) we will be having a long talk (arguement) about it. <p>I printed out OW's webpage to greet him at the door with--he's going to freak.<p>New-Beginning--yes ma'am, this road never ends. This time, I am not too sure that my husband has done anything--it's the OW. She is nasty, and she is still shamelessly baiting him. What is wrong with her? What is wrong with some women? Can't she find her own man, one who's free? (Maybe, considering what a who' she is, they all run from her when they see her coming.) It is rubbing it in my face, all the agony that I have been through is just fluff to her, it's not her problem. All she wants is my husband, that's all I mean to her. I am an obstacle. My son is an obstacle. And my husband would fall for it in a second--he thrives on being a knight in shining armor. He thrives on flattery.<p>You are so sweet, lady, yourself. What would we be here without you? Thank you for being here for me, now.

Bernzini,<p>Has your husband checked this account recently
has he been to that board?? if not maybe if you
asked him he will close it out..for the sake of
your marriage..<p>Would he be willing to sit down with you and write this woman a non-contact letter and let her know that if she contacts him again or even tries that
you will consider it harassment and file appropriate charges??<p>I probably would have sent an e-mail back saying..I'm glad to hear your life is going so well..as is mine..my wife and I are getting along much better..and happier than ever now that your out of my life..I allow my wife to read every e-mail I recieve because I have nothing to hide from her anymore..she's the love of my life..and always will be..so please don't contact me again..or I'll have to consider it that you do not respect my marriage or the life I choose
for myself..and will have to respect my wifes
choices to file appropriate charges of harassment..<p>and then check back later to see if she responded..

Thorned Rose--<p>I sure will ask him if he would be willing about the No-contact letter. It seems kind of crazy, after all, it has been three years, and after all this time, I thought they both would have learned from the hell we have been through. I have learned--boy, have I.<p>You have a good idea about what to write! Me, I started two or three e-mails containing lots of strong words and graphic depictions of violence, re-read them, then X'd them out. I have learned a lot about self-control in the last three years, and acting like a lady no matter what. I have learned the hard way about this. Nevertheless, it didn't occur to me to describe my "flourishing and sound marriage" to shoot her down rather than curse her.<p>Now, if my husband doesn't write the no contact letter, what does that mean? Man, I haven't had to deal with this yet, believe it or not. I have believed that there was no contact for the last two years!!

Hi Berzini,<p>TR and the others have good info for you. TR is suggesting how to put some of that into action. Sure wish we could send these OWs to the prisoner's correspondence listing somewhere out in the boonies and let those guys wonder if they have a 'jewel' or just a dumb rock. You know some of these OWs think they are 'it'. You know what? They are. They are an IT. Got one of those here in CA. I have wondered about setting up an add for her but I pity the poor sucker(s) who answers it! LOL!!! <p>Now as for your H not cooperating.....well that will hamper your recovery. Have you or can you talk to Steve? I told my H that if he was not willing to work on meeting my needs, that he would have to leave. One of the consisted of knowing all his e-mail accounts and activities. At first & for a while he balked. He retorted that he could always setup another with OW. I firmly replied, yes and when you do you are history, with a capital H. Those threat are gone and I have access. It took a while B, really it did. I am also mastering the 'look'. Makes him wonder what I am upset or hurt about. Everytime his cell rings, I hurt. Sometimes I get upset. So it is his job to fix that. <p>L.

Hey B,<p>Just another thought. When the OW sent an e-mail to H's addy, I did respond. She wanted him to pay for her cell phone bill. Then proceeded to provide and itimized listing. I responded by with a short sentence saying that I (H) was too broke to pay so she could. Just blunt, then I copied one of H's previous close responses (... love U, H.) and sent it. <p>She responded immediately with 'sure sweetie'. So there.....with that one response, she paid for her own cell phone. Of course she and the Ws realized later that she had been dupped but since I had saved that reply, she is also aware that she agreed in writing to pay for the bill. <p>So see I got to give a punch and make her spend her own $$ (which by the way with this OW is hard to do - she claims to have a lot to spend on men but rarely does). <p>L.

<<<My marriage is healing. But only because I know how to keep my mouth shut and leave him be--boy howdy, I have learned.>>> <p>This is NOT healing. This is your H forcing you to shut up and back off and stuff it down and leave him alone so that he's free to do what he wants. Do you call that a marriage?<p>Your post is very disturbing. You say, "boy howdy, I have learned." Just what is it that you have learned, and how did he teach it to you? <p>I can imagine. Some of the nicest men in the world can get very, very nasty when their wife won't back down and just tell him what he wants to hear.<p>Please be careful. You are in a dangerous situation and not even *close* to anything resembling "healing."

Berni,<p>My sweet dear friend, that nasty OW has nothing new to offer your H. She is all the things you and the others have said here and more. But think about it, Hon. Usually people who brag that their life is great, perfect, nirvana, etc., are the ones who are NOT happy. They're in essence trying to convince themselves they have it great, when they really don't.<p>I can imagine OW is very lonely. If she conducts all of her life's relationship in this immature selfish and vile manner, I'm sure she has very little closeness in her life. Things are not always as they appear, please remember that. That's why we're not supposed to judge others I guess. Easier said than done when you've had someone wreak havoc in your marriage and continues to do so.<p>Don't give her any more space in your brain or emotions, Berni. She isn't paying rent there and is squating for free. Exorcise her out of your life if you can and concentrate on your H and your son .. on your family and marriage.<p>I'm so sorry for all the hurt you feel. I felt it for you reading your words. Whenever you write you take me right into your situation, I FEEL it and I get hurt and angry for you. <p>You've ALWAYS been such an inspiration to me, Berni. I remember so well the days when you had to take that job in the factory. I thought "What a strong woman, where does she get her inner strength, how does she do it?" .... and you helped me survive my situation simply by telling me yours. You are someone I would love to know in real life, Berni. I think you are a very special person in so many ways. Your H is blessed a hundred times over to have you in his life, to have you as the mother of his son. <p>Please take my words to heart, Hon. And remember something that I tell myself all the time now, life is 90% of how you react to a situation and 10% the outcome.<p>Please let us know how things go with your convo with your H. I'll be looking for it.<p>Love,
Jo<p>[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Resilient ]</p>

Bernzini:<p>I'm glad you've remained a lady through it all
sometimes it is very hard to do..but you know what
even Jesus lost his temper..when He was fighting for something that was precious to Him..your marriage is precious to you..so it's okay to be angry about this..and to show it..<p>Now, if my husband doesn't write the no contact letter, what does that mean? Man, I haven't had to deal with this yet, believe it or not. I have believed that there was no contact for the last two years!!<p>if he's not willing to write the no contact letter then there are still some things that need to be addressed..and you should ask him if he has had contact with her..over the past two years..and if he balks about your asking for passwords to his e-mail accounts..ask him what he is trying to hide
from you and what he's afraid you'll find?? These
could be very telling signs..and let him know you want to trust him but how can you if he's not willing to be open and honest about these things with you?? how can you truly trust him at his word?? And you may have to start making decisions
for your own life based on that..can you stay married to a man who you can not trust to be completely open and honest with you???

first, let me join the chorus of voices vilifying this heartless predator....i can't understand how women can pursue married men!!! and i am so sorry for your pain.<p>you mention the things you have lost "all because of her" but in reality, a big part of the responsibility goes to your husband. who knows what his participation is now...but i think you must try to end the secretism if you are going to rebuild your marriage...otherwise some of the responsiblity will be yours as well...for not standing up to him. your giver has been in place so long....that his taker has had to yield nothing.<p>he made the choice long ago to betray you...and he must make a choice now...to show his true commitment or not. she couldn't have lured him into an affair without his participation...don't forget that the affair won't end without his participation too.<p>i am so sorry for your pain...good luck and god bless you!! be strong.

It's seven thirty in the morning here--he came home at five thirty, two hours ago. It did not go well<p>I heard him come in, go tearing through the kitchen for food, then flop down on the couch to sleep. (That was strike .05, I HATE it when he creates a hog-wallow out of my furniture, but I guess I am just being b**chy there.) I asked him why he didn't bother to even call, and he said "Well, Sor-ry! I am a big boy, I can take care of myself." That was strike one.<p>Then I showed him the webpage that I had printed out, and he said "What the h*ll do you want from me, blood?" That was strike two.<p>I told him that we needed to talk about this, and he said (hollered) "I don't want to talk about this now, we talk about this at least once a week!" (meaning, I occasionally ask him questions that he refuses to answer, he dodges them and turns it around on me until we both blow up. Then he tells me that I am out of control and putting on a show for the neighbors and trying to fight in front of the kid--his usual spiel. I can quote him word for word now.)<p>I asked him "WHEN can we talk about this?"<p>He says "I already have talked about it and I am not saying anymore."<p>I told him that I refused to live with someone who is dishonest with me.<p>He told me to "do whatever makes me happy." (meaning, "whatever, shut up and get away from me.)<p>I told him "There are two options here: you can be honest with me, and answer the questions I ask you, or I can leave for good."<p>He said, again "Just do whatever makes you happy. Can I go to sleep now?" He rolls over on the couch making a big wad out of my afghan and with his sweaty head on my throw pillows.<p>So I am really really mad now, sorry, I am human, I can't help it, I went and tucked Melissa's webpage under his arm and said "Nighty-night, you can have each other." He grabbed it and threw it. I put it back on him. He threw it again. He told me that I was being abusive by invading his space, and I told him that he had better just call the cops if he felt threatened, so that started him in on how I was going to go to jail today, the cops were just a phonecall away, and how I am an abusive, selfish spoiled person who tries to get their way by coersion. And by the way, I am a bad mother, too. (But he didn't elaborate on this, because he wanted to go to sleep.)<p>He ended the conversation with a couple of "[censored] you's." Whatever. I have better things to do than go through this for the gozillionth time.<p>Now you guys try to convince me that marriage is worth saving, and that you can reason with just about anybody. Am I wrong here?<p>I am supposed to move to Korea with him in two months--do I make another change-of-a-lifetime---again!---do I keep growing older with him, even for another day? I look at myself in the mirror, I am thirty-five years old, I am not in the greatest health and there are still so many things that I am aching to do with the years that I have left to me, that I wouldn't be able to do if I stay a servant in his household. (yeah, that's how I feel sometimes.)<p>Threatening to leave doesn't help--he'll sit on it a day or two, then start sucking up to me (while not admitting that he was wrong or even sorry, or God forbid, address the problems that the fight began with--his affair)<p>I told him to go to work tomorrow and take my name off his PCS orders, I won't go.<p>He said "Oh, that's just great! I have to stop the world and make way for your demands, like usual. Like I am just going to waltz right into my battalion commander's office and tell him that I have to change me orders--it aint happening."<p>Well, I guess he's going to have to do that, because I am not going to Korea unless he tells me his secrets, and that's final.<p>And, here is his nasty woman, just sitting there waiting for this golden opportunity to rescue her man from the crazy mean woman that he's married to, he's such a poor, misunderstood creature.<p>They should just have each other--screw them.

Bernzini,<p>I feel horrible about what you are going through right now. Just the thought of it turns my stomach.
Is he always verbally abusive or just when he feels backed into a corner? Does he make attempts at changing his treatment of you? If not, how much are you willing to take? <p>I do not want to hurt you as I know you are already in so much pain but do you think that by giving him ultimatums and not following through that he has learned that you don't really mean it when you say that you will leave? Do you think that this causes him to feel that he can verbally bully you because you threaten to leave but don't actually do it?<p>You have been around here for a long time. I hate to see that three years later, you are still dealing with all of this garbage. Set some boundries for yourself. Both you and your son will benefit. Your H NEEDS to respect you!<p>I am praying for you, that you have the right words and the courage to do what is right for you and your child. <p>cleo

I am so sorry that you are having this difficult time - again! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I understand that your actions were based on emotions. I haven't gotten past that either (sigh!). I also understand that there is no proof that your H is having any more to do with the OW. And ultimately, I can understand that this is all happening because certain issues weren't dealt with at the start of recovery. (Oh boy do I know about that one!! Still living it! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>I'm going to give you the usual hug (((((( Bernzini )))))) , and the usual, "Wait for a few more days. Give yourself a chance to calm down before making any major decisions."<p>Keep on venting on here of course. I'm thinking of doing the same thing soon.<p>I wish I could say or do more to help you right now - especially after all of the time you spent helping me a few weeks ago. Just know that I'm thinking about you, and I'm also struggling with the 'is recovery worth it?' thing. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen

I am new here, but i agree with CLEO, stand for what is right even if it means standing alone. I for one have absolutely no room to talk :0
sunnyday19672002@yahoo.com

I am so sorry to hear about your current situation. <p>It doesn't sound like your husband is willing to follow the rules for Recovery. My H did that also. He just wanted to forget it and go on with his life. Unfortunately, if they don't want to follow the rules of honesty, protection, and time together, Recovery will be difficult, if not impossible. Do you want to continue to live like this?<p>I did it for 10 years to try and keep my marriage and family together. He continued to treat me disrespectfully, and honestly--I should have put a stop to his behavior long before now. <p>Is it sad, yep--and I wish it wasn't like this. But a relationship has to be concerned with the well-being of both partners....<p>I am kind of just rambling...just wanted you to know you are in my prayers. Hang in there.

Bern,<p>This sounds so familiar to me--the excuses for not doing the recovery stuff and the intimidation and "logic", etc. And then the sweet affectionate stuff to gloss over everything and sweep it under the rug.<p>I also am still waiting for him to reveal ALL the information about the A and for him to follow the extraordinary precautions--all the stuff on the very first checklist in SAA.<p>How long have you been waiting for these very first steps of recovery? If it has been years, then I think you are right to insist upon them and even ultimatum them if you have to, but only if you are willing to follow through.<p>I can't believe I'M still waiting. Seems so elementary that all the features of the secret second life have to be opened up, but somehow this type finds a way to weasel out of it. There's always some "reason" why YOU'RE being unreasonable for insisting upon it.<p>If anything ever changes here and I can discover the key that leads to his figuring out the necessity of the extraordinary precautions and committing to them, I'll be sure to let you know, and I hope you'll do the same for me.

Hello Beautiful,<p>Your H is a jerk. <Wow, THAT felt good!><p>So, how are you feeling now? Still wondering if you should make that move to Korea?<p>I'm not gonna tell you or "convince" you to stay with him. I think there comes a time when we "hit the wall" and/or realize that our lives can't survive with the abuse hanging over our heads... and we let go. <p>I'm certainly not telling you to get a divorce, but what I am telling you is to back up, make a list of what he has to do in order for you to remain his wife, and see which comes first: his doing what needs to be done, or you divorcing him.<p>My blood is boiling for you, mostly because, I think, I have been there. My ex would twist words, misconstrue meanings... until I didn't know WTF was going on. I didn't trust myself, I certainly didn't trust him, and I really didn't know if I'd live or die. A very good friend wrote me an email just this morning (Hi MBM!) and told me something that EMPOWERED ME... she reminded me that life is too short to live in an abusive situation. And guess what? IT IS, DAMMIT!!<p>I have been feeling bad about my ex for waaaaay too long! I buried the abuse, believed his lies, and worked myself into a frenzy trying to be the wife he wanted. When I left him, he **changed** into what I needed. I felt bad about that too. Guess what? Unless they get some REAL HELP, they will NEVER CHANGE. <p>Okay, so I've gone on and on. Can you tell my headache is gone? LOL<p>((((((((((Bernzini))))))))))