<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Willy1:
<strong>... I am always there for conversation, but after what I did, she doesn't trust me like she used to, so other friends and the OM get most of the most intense conversations. Not much I can do there. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, you could something about it. You should start sharing your feeling with her ... not neccessary about R. For example, probably tell her about your childhood that you never told other people ... you build trust by trusting. Trust her w/ your inner feeling (not about R unless she ask you to). Hope you have polished your listening skill, keep improving it too.<p>Good Luck -RH-

So I was simply asking if anyone else had run into this roadblock...and how did they overcome it? <p>I am working on these things with my wife also. She doesn't have the same needs as your wife, but I have been three months working plan A and she is just now starting to read "His needs, Her needs." She hasn't yet filled out the questionnaire for me so I could know her needs and better meet them. But I have worked on eliminating "LBs" and giving non-sexual affection. <p>I would suspect that if you were to go back and read posts back on this site over a few years that you would find many, many others with the same problem, and many were able to make it work with a solid plan A - even though it may have taken many months and sometimes years for results. And, sometimes, they were in it all my them selves for a long time, with no help from their spouse. So it can be done. <p>I don't know for sure but I suspect from reading your posts, you are somewhat like me.
Because of major LBs over the years ( married 25 years) , my wife did not even want to talk to me about the changes I was trying to make. She said she had been hurt so much over the years that she just couldn't open up and speak about it. Even that would be too painful. So I printed the stuff off the MB website and started reading. I got "His Needs, Her Needs" from the local library ( I have since ordered "Love Busters" and HNHN from this site and have them both at home now.)
I tried to eliminate "LBs" first and started trying to give affection in ways she would accept it. <p>I found many of the things suggested to you ( I have read all the posts on this thread) to be true. My wife has such different needs from what I have, that it is still hard three months later for me to understand how to make her happy - I have to re-read the books weekly and spend time daily thinking about it - it has not become habit yet with me but it is getting easier to do. And she is starting to respond after THREE MONTHS. <p>Note that neither of us has had an affair. We don't have all the baggage that comes with that, and it has still taken that long. She said this last week that she has a hard time getting close to me (emotionally and so of course that means physically too) because I have hurt her so much in the past. I asked if she felt I had hurt her in the last three months at all. She gave a flat "No, you have been so good it is hard to believe. But, it is going to take a lot longer that three months for me to feel good again." <p>So, let me review some of the things I have learned<p>1. When you think you are starting to do really well and that you are doing a wonderful plan A - your spouse things you are just at mile one on a thousand mile journey. <p>2. You need to give non sexual affection. Please re-read all of the advice you have gotten so far on this thread and read it over a couple of times. It seems to me you only partly understand the advice given and it doesn't have the proper weight yet in your mind for you to act on it properly.
( I am not trying to make a judgment about you, but from reading the whole thing just now, it just seems that way to me. Forgive me if I offend, I don't mean to. ) <p>3. Keep working on the things you are working on, actions speak louder than words. Don't give up just because you can't see any results yet. ( I have lost 25 lbs and am working on 60 total., finally yesterday she told me I am starting to look much better. ) <p>4. When you are able to have conversations with your wife ( she must be happily willing, not just dragged in ) stress that you are trying to make changes and that you would like a 6 month trial period so she has time to see the changes - and ask that she doesn't do anything during that time to ruin your chances. ( but you can only ask, she may say no.) If she won't agree to give you the time, tell her you will work on it anyway and hope that it becomes important to her. <p>5. Don't expect anything - it's easier that way - and then if she starts to respond it will be really nice. And if she doesn't you are not hurt so much. <p>6. Give non-sexual affection and don't expect anything in return . ( can you go 6 months? )
I know I already said this, but it has been the hardest for me. I give back rubs, foot rubs, head rubs, and I tell her up front that I am giving it with no strings attached, that I expect nothing back in the short term. ( when she asked what I expected long term I just said " a better, more normal and loving marriage.") Finally she can take a back rub from me without getting uptight about it and afraid that I will "want something else". <p>Last week she volunteered SF, and she was EXCITED about it. I didn't dare talk about it then. A few days later I asked her where that had come from. She said " I don't know, you have been so nice to me, I just wanted to do something nice for you."
I am a believer in Dr Harleys program. <p>Also go to the Just Found Out forum and read the mega thread by persistant. It will take time but give you really good insight about how long it takes, what emotions you will go through, and help you not to give up. Also check The Misapplication of Plan A Thread on this same General Questions Forum. <p>Read all you have time for, pray for help for yourself and for her. Write down what you intend to do, plan it out on paper. Do things each day to meet her needs. Watch her closely for feedback. Don't do the things that bother her. Do over again the things she likes. ( but not too often)
Sorry this was so long, hope it helps. <p>Rember that you can't change her or make her love you. You can only change yourself and hope she will want you back. <p>May God bless you and your wife to recover.

Red hat and still seeking...great posts.<p>I will use so much of this...I have to stay away from even non-sexual affection for the most part. I think that is because she is still struggling with the awareness that she wishes it were the OM, not me. We talked about this and she said, "you will no if I am receptive...and if I"m not, just back off." Since that conversation last weekend...I have been backed off.<p>I make small little moves, a touch, an arm for a sec around a shoulder, a peck of a kiss...slowlee, slowlee.<p>I am relieved to hear that one can expect to stay unbalanced for a long time and not expect to see anything happen...and then it may anyway. I think my sitch is much like yours. While I made some mistakes, therapy has uncovered sexual abuse as a 5 year old, and her abandonment and adoption were more painful than she would ever confess in our dating and married days. I am certain that all these pains are magnified by the previously stated menopausal problems.<p>You have both confirmed what I had hoped...the slow and steady race can win the event. So, I am on lap one of a 70 lap event. Thanks for the advice and encouragement. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Just wanted to add my two cents. My WH is also unable to give me any affection, let alone SF. I think it is mainly because he is still in EA, fog or withdrawal (i'm not sure which). I think he actually thinks he's betraying OW by being affectionate to me. From some of your comments, it seems that your wife is still in EA or at least withdrawal. From my understanding of MB, this means you should still be in Plan A with very little expectations from her to meet your EN's. So that means trying to meet her EN's without expectations until she is totally ready to recommit.

Shellshocked...I think you have hit the nail on the head...she said she needs more time...I think that is it.<p>Thanks.<p>will keep informed.

Hi Willy,
I've wanted to post to you for awhile but I've been busy so here goes. I know the wall your wife has put up. I've been there. She is leery of trusting again so she is protecting herself. She doesn't want to get burned again. My husband has had problems with his overactive sex need and has constantly put me down because of it. He then decided to try and find someone online to have a discrete affair with so he could stop bugging me so much. Anyway I found out before things got too far out of hand. And I wasn't sure if I wanted to try again (married 28 years). But I was willing to try for 1 more year (daughter will be out of the house then). <p>The book by the Harley's "Surviving an Affair" is a godsend. Even though your wife hasn't has a physical affair, she does seem to be leaning toward an emotional affair. This book will tell you what to do and expect. In the back there is a plan for recovery. I took my husband to a restaurant and we went over the plan together and we signed it. This doesn't actually solve anything but it did help me to start trusting again. It helped to give us a clear plan with measurable steps with accountability. This is what I needed rather than the 'self esteem' issues our marriage counselor kept trying to rehash. Our mc also kept telling me to put everything in the past and move on. But how can I? I gave my husband a hundred chances and he kept blowing them. So I had to have some kind of clear plan that my trust issues were going to be taken into consideration. This agreement has given me a lot of reassurance that this time things will be different. Your wife is probably looking for this reassurance too. We still have a long way to go but I recommend this plan highly. It wraps up all the Harley book recommendations into a clearcut plan for the future.<p>Take care,

Thanks PJB...since I posted this, we had a great evening of discussion over dinner...<p>we both want a fresh start.<p>EA is done.<p>We both WANT to meet ENs<p>WE both want to eliminate LBs<p>WE are both on the same page...because I was patient, and we were reading some Harley stuff together along with the Bible and Jesus' example...Not a plug for religion, just what worked for us.<p>The "fresh start" means we don't dredge up past hurts, but we also realize that we both have trust issues...me on her OM, her on my violation with the money issues.<p>It's a start, and we know there will be potholes, but she hasn't been able to look me in the eye like that for years.<p>Will keep board informed...<p>PS...funny thing is, the SF thing doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore..or even the affection....she told me she was proud about my persistent job search efforts, and it was the best moment I have had with her in over a year...and that includes the few moments of SF. Guess admiration was more important than I thought!

Glad you had the talk with her ! Way to go ! <p>Quote by willy1<p> PS...funny thing is, the SF thing doesn't seem like such a big deal anymore..or even the affection....she told me she was proud about my persistent job search efforts, and it was the best moment I have had with her in over a year...and that includes the few moments of SF. Guess admiration was more important than I thought! <p>For me, those feelings will go away for a while, ( want SF badly ) but they come back. I know I need to leave her alone, but sometimes it is hard. . If she is in a good mood, she talks to me about it and gives me hugs etc. If she is in a bad mood, I am left to myself and I get close to LB. (love busting.)

If you have this same problem in the future, practice this. Reach around your neck to the back of your shirt. Grab your shirt collar with your hand, pull up hard and drag yourself out of the room.
Hope I made you laugh. Remember it when you are sad. <p>You will have lots of ups and downs. Sounds good that you had the talk. You will have lots more before you are finished. Remember that it is normal. The sad, down, feelings will come back. BUT SO WILL THE HAPPY ONES. Remember that when you have a down day. <p>Tell her on a happy day that you have been advised that you will have ups and downs and tell her that when you have a down day, you will need to talk to her to get reassured again. Ask her "will you help when I have one of those days?" <p>It makes it easier - then all you have to do is say is, " it's one of those days, I need help." and she will know where you are coming from and talk to you. At least it works for us. <p>Keep up the good work ! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]