I am wondering if there are any other attachment parents (or continuum parents) struggling in their marriage (infidelity or otherwise.) I know many AP families that include great marriages and many non-AP families that are struggling so I do not blame AP. <p>What I am wondering is how one meets their children's needs in this unique way with all of this turmoil in their life? How do you find time alone to work on the marriage, recreational companionship, conversation, etc. (SF not a problem for us)? The family bed?

Don't mean to sound stupid but what is an "attachment parent"?

I follow AP somewhat, at least the best I can. Unfortunately breastfeeding didn't work out for me, but I did wear my baby as much as I could and we do/did cosleep. I was working fulltime until my son was 18 mos and was showing signs of separation anxiety that I couldn't bear anymore. I quit work to be a WAHM and my marriage greatly suffered because I was trying to be a fulltime wife and mother and work 30 hours a week during the night. Of course the wife thing was the first thing to go...me staying home didn't cause the A, but I think it was the final straw.<p>My WH is struggling with responsibility and me quitting basically through a lot of pressure in his face. Add that to never seeing eachother, no communication, my WH's refusual to deal with the fact that our child was special needs...so many things created the atmosphere for the A to happen. I at first thought maybe it had to do with AP. WH did say he felt replaced when the baby came and it wasn't necessarily the AP aspect but the special needs aspect...I was OBSESSED and worried and researched nonstop. <p>In counseling we are learning about balance...how my H never took any responsibilty, worry, research, care, etc. off of my shoulders, so I felt I had to do it all, then since I did it all, he never felt like he had to do anything...and we just kept getting more off balance.<p>Anyhow, my son is almost 2 and we still struggle with him, but we are doing it together now...he still sleeps with us 75% of the time and my H has always preferred it that way. SF is not a problem because of this! We are learning to compromise. For example, our son likes us to lay down with him so he can fall asleep. Instead of looking at this negatively, we use the time to MAKE us talk. Our son falls asleep and we talk about our worries, our day, etc. It's really nice.<p>I am back to work fulltime, but don't regret staying home for him when he needed me to...he is in new daycare and doing well. We are struggling with implementing a routine as recommended by his developmental therapist. We are going to try and make a routine for us too. We've got a lot of work ahead of us and sometimes (like THIS time of the month) it is all overwhelming...but we're making it. If we ever have another child, I plan on APing as best as I can again, but involving H a lot more!<p>Oh as far as recreational companionship, we find things to do as a family like going to a park, but also have family watch him at least 2 or 3 times a month so we can go out by ourselves...that's one thing I didn't do earlier, and I should've. I just have to admit that my H and I need alone time to function as a couple and that it's OK. That is what's best for our family...for mom, dad, and baby to be happy.

Attached Parent here lol!! Not married though just living as married for more than four years. We have an 18mth old boy and a three week old girl. Our son is just weaning away from the family bed, still wakes up and comes in every morning around 4. He no longer breastfeeds, our daughter does nurse and sleep with us and just like with our son she is either in my arms or in a sling all the time. I catch a lot of flak from non AP parents about that [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Anyway my SO and I find time for each other when they are asleep mostly, we take advantage of middle of the day quickies [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] We have not resumed sex yet, its only been three weeks, but when we really get ready to have an intimate night in bed she'll just be in her bassinette for awhile [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>As for the A(s) his unmet need he said was money, and because I was at home with a risk preg and then with the baby I guess it was tight, but not an excuse I'm happy with still. I do know that it was a PA with both women and I know that stems from me either not having the libido or just not having the time with our son. With this baby I have done my best to still try and satisfy him in other ways so he doesn't feel the need to stray, and I am going to go back to work. My AP style will suffer a bit but during the time I'm working the kids will be bonding with dad so hopefully this will work out for the best. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Prayers to you,
Bridgette

Btw..yes we do find time for recreational things alone, he does comedy and it is a great need of his to have me see his shows and a need of mine not to let him travel alone, so we find a sitter once or twice a month so I can be with him. Since baby was born we have only been out of town once and we took her with us and left son at sitters with my other daughter. We also take a day or two a month to see a movie alone. It helps our relationship alot, and I don't the AP style suffers from a couple of missed days. At least I can't tell from looking at my children. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks for sharing your stories!<p>To :Thorned Rose
Attachment Parenting is diffferent things to different people BUT usually it means, breastfeeding on cue and natural weaning, wearing babies as much as possible in a sling or other carrier so that they are close and secure, some form of co-sleeping with Mommy, responding to baby's cries quickly so he/she learns to trust and don't cry as often, interpreting early signs instead of waiting for baby to cry.<p>Most people interpret it as the mother being a full-time parent to the child/ren but as you can see with these posts, not all. Some are stay-at-home dads and some try to work it out with part-time or full-time daycare. <p>With older children, AP has a continued emphasis on learning their cues and meeting their needs, some form of family bed or co-sleeping if they are needing that. Not leaving children alone with babysitters until they are ready (this makes it much easier to leave them in the future). <p>Alternatives to the standard punishment style of discipline, trying to understand children's needs and anticipate tantrums or meltdowns prior to starting, a reduced emphasis on time-outs, no physical punishment, speaking respectfully with child while still establishing limits and boundaries. <p>AP Parents: Am I missing or misrepresenting anything here? There are degrees to which parents follow this and still refer to it as AP.

We have no family or friends in area (just transferred cross-country) and no babysitters yet. I am very concerned about my patience with the children. I was spanked as a child and often degraded and of course, want to avoid this with my children. However, the stress of this marriage, both before and after the affair has left me with little patience and urges to spank or say disrespectful things. Does anyone else struggle with this under marital stress?

Yes,I find my fuse has become a lot shorter where my seven year old is concerned, it seems that she frustrates me much more now, I am working on how I deal with her. My SO and I have talks about whether or not this is an age phase or her seeking attention (because of two babies in the house).But I do believe that if not for all the added stress in my life I might have a bit more patience.

I believe that because of the immaturity and/or lack of creativity of some men, women are made to choose between their children and their man, and I, for one, resent it. I have no idea what to do about it, but I mostly have chosen to give my children what they need, they being the most LEGITIMATELY needy.<p>For a man to be jealous and resentful of their own child just disgusts me, especially in my case when the father CHOSE to have every single child and then later on used that against me as an excuse for their infidelity, as if I conceived the children all by myself. Thought I should call the Vatican and let them know there were a whole lot more immaculate conceptions than had been originally thought. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And this is one of those problems you never seem to discover until it is too late. There are ways to have alone time even if your child breastfeeds and sleeps in your bed. What it takes is creativity and thinking outside the box. Who says you have to make love in the bed? And why do you have to go out without the kids to be together. There is plenty of time when the children are asleep to have time together without compromising the baby's needs. It is a matter of taking advantage of the opportunities as they arise and being SPONTANEOUS.<p>I personally never had a problem with this, but both men/fathers in my life have. I believe attachment parenting is better for the children, but what good does it do if the fathers abandon them later? Maybe the boys raised this way will fully mature and want their children to be nurtured the way they were and things will change.<p>I have little patience for men who are big babies in competition with their true babies. The only solution I can think of is to thoroughly discuss parenting methods ahead of time, but that's no guarantee because I did that and the men agreed, but when it came down to letting the baby be the baby, their lack of grown-up-ness came to the forefront and it's just like sibling rivalry. Wah Wah Wah.<p>I envy the mothers who manage to find an actual MAN to procreate with. So many of us end up with boys masquerading as men.<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Conqueror:
<strong><p>I have little patience for men who are big babies in competition with their true babies. The only solution I can think of is to thoroughly discuss parenting methods ahead of time, but that's no guarantee because I did that and the men agreed, but when it came down to letting the baby be the baby, their lack of grown-up-ness came to the forefront and it's just like sibling rivalry. Wah Wah Wah.<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p> I agree about men being babies when their wives have babies, but if there is one thing I have learned it is that one of the greatest gifts we can give our kids is to nurture the marriage. Of course the kids are the number one priority and the children's needs have to be met, but the marriage is a very close second. We didn't have kids when my H had his A, so that wasn't the issue for us. But now that I've been a BS I watch other women totally cast their H's aside when the kids come, thinking they can just pick up with the marriage later. Unfortunately some OW might pick it up for her in the meantime. Of course it's totally wrong for the man to do this, but it's a sad reality that isn't going to change.
There can be a happy medium where the children's needs are met and they are happy and the same goes for the spouse. I was slammed by some AP parents on a message board because my H and I have Grandma watch the kids twice a month for afew hours while H and I have a date. I was told that "Any mother who has an infant under one year old and needs to "date" her husband shouldn't have kids". I told them they could bite me. That alone time together is invaluable for connecting as a couple, not just as Mommy and Daddy. We are happy and the kids are happy and well adjusted. Yes there is time when the kids got to bed, but it's not enough time since we both go to bed fairly early most of the time too. Plus it's not the same as being out of the house alone, having a special romatic evening. We both come home from those dates totally revitalized.
Different parenting styles work for different people. Unfortunately one style may not work for both members of a couple. I think some men may just agree to go along with "whatever" method because they don't really know what that entails. If I would have said "I want to do AP" my H would have said "Sure, that sounds good. Whatever you want" and it would have been a negative thing for the marriage. He would never be able to sleep with a baby in our bed (neither could I actually) but if I'd been gung ho about it he would have just been miserable, gone along with it, and not said a word. Before the baby was born we pretty much discussed how we both felt about all aspects of parenthood and raising kids, then figured out what worked best for both of us and was still in the best interest of the children to keep them happy and meet their needs.<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: fairydust ]</p>

I'm certainly not going to decree that all parents have to do such and such. However, one year of a child's life in the lives of both parents is not a whole lot of time to give them what they need in the way of abiding parental presence. It doesn't mean the parents or the M have to take a backseat to the child--just maybe a need to find creative alternatives that consider the needs of the entire family.<p>If I had known how conditional and tenuous the fatherhood of the men I allowed to impregnate me would be, I would not have had children with them. My reasons for having children were similar to my reasons for being married. I had an expectation that there would be TWO people actively involved in marriage and parenthood. Boy, was I wrong!!!<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

yes...my son is special needs and HIGH activity, no impulse control, and delayed receptive speech...that and my frustration threshold is SO low...I am struggling with appropriate disclipline. I was spanked as a child (borderline physical and emotional abuse I guess) as was my H...I am determined to break the cycle. Right now my son is going through a VERY bad pushing stage. He has a lack of social skills and pushes kids to get their attention...assumes this is a way to play and now it is becoming a habit. Our method of discipline is to make sure the other child who was pushed is OK, show our son the appropriate way to get child's attention, have him appologize, then he sits in "time out." Time out has no effect on him, but it's more for the other parents' benefit so they feel like Zach is being "punished"...otherwise the b*tch and moan.<p>Anyhow, I feel SO overwhelmed some days when my triggers are really bad and our son is particularly hyper...I just want to run away screaming...instead if I can I turn on a cartoon, put son on my lap, and cuddle...

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Conqueror:
<strong>I'm certainly not going to decree that all parents have to do such and such. However, one year of a child's life in the lives of both parents is not a whole lot of time to give them what they need in the way of abiding parental presence. It doesn't mean the parents or the M have to take a backseat to the child--just maybe a need to find creative alternatives that consider the needs of the entire family.<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</strong><hr></blockquote><p>A marriage can crumble to a complete state of disrepair in a year if it's not carefully tended. Learned that the hard way. IMO going on afew monthly dates with my husband does benefit the entire family and does consider everyone's needs. Baby spends afew hours of undivided attention with a devoted Grandma, Mom and Dad get to relax and have special one on one time with no distractions. Kids get parents who are in love, happy to be together, and not stressed out. I would have gone insane if I'd never been able to go out to dinner occasionally sans baby when my kids were under one year old. Being a stay at home Mom can be very isolating. Having that little bit of time out was/is good for my spirits, my stress level, my self esteem and made (makes) me a better parent. And my husband is one of the most happily involved fathers I know. Seems like a pretty good deal for everyone.

I'm an AP mother of four lovely breastfed babies! I hear you loud and clear nurse betty on the challenges you face in mothering your children and dealing with the crisis of infidelity. Yes my fuse has been very short over the past year. I started taking Effexor, an anti-depressant, in November and it has helped my "Mommy Meltdown Moments" (MMM)tremendously. Before that I was on a mood swing rollercoaster.<p>nursebetty you did a fine job of explaining AP. Have you been to any local LLL meetings? I have always been able to find other AP moms there for companionship and support but I can tell you honestly that I have not told a soul at my AP group about my H's affair. I turn to boards like this for support.<p>Conqueror, all I can say to your posts is "you go girl"! I agree with you 110%! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Bluebird

I breastfed all my babies till they were at least 3.5 and the others to 4, and 5. They come and sleep with us when they feel they need it and they have always slept with us as babies. If they bothered my H, I would find another bed. More often than not though, his LOUD< LOUD snoring bothered us just as much. So I think, for the most part of the time we have had kids, I have not slept wholly through the night until recently with the advent of the c-pap machine for H and the switch in the girls' bedroom.

I do know that sleeping with my children has saved their lives more than once. You become attuned to their breathing and sleeping habits. When they were really little I'd sleep with them on my chest. Once I sensed my baby wasn't breathing and it must have only been for a few seconds, but I got her up, stimulated her and she coughed up this huge blog of phlem. I am certain that if she hadn't been on me that night, she would have died. If I felt my H roll over too far, my hand would go out and push him back, I was always attuned to where each of them were.<p>Fairy Dust, there is nothing wrong with having a date with your husband, especailly if you are leaving your child with a caretaker you trust. Children need to also bond with their grandparents and if you have that option, more power to you. <p>I have always praised my H for being open to having the kids sleep with us. We just got creative when we wanted intimacy. Either take the sleeping baby out, or move to another place ourselves. I was horrified once when a mother in my son's preschool talked about how her child literally slept on the floor at the bottom of their bed for the first 3 years of his life because the father wouldn't allow that child to be with them in bed, EVER! I personally thought that was the most cruel thing to do.
In general, I find that my children are well adjusted, and confident. They know that they can come to us at any time. Nowadays they need to be reminded to knock on the door and have to start out in their own beds anyway. But the little one frequently comes in the middle of the night, unless her older sister is sleeping with her. Now we encourage them to sleep together when Dad is home so Mom and Dad get their time alone too. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

fairydust,<p>I have nothing against nights out or anything like that. My point is that this issue, just like many, many others, needs to be POJA-ed. And preferably BEFORE a child enters the picture. I see the main problem in so many of these situations as the men who CHOOSE to be ignorant about a child's needs and do the usual sloughing off onto the woman the all child care and then bi*ching about it when it inconveniences them or interferes with their perceived entitlement.<p>This was my situation and many others I observed in my 26 years of parenting and mentoring/counseling other parents. I had no trusted caretaker or doting grandparents nearby, and I did not want to leave my babies anyway. It caused me great anxiety, not to mention physical discomfort, to be away from my nursing babies. I easily took them wherever I went and was able to have plenty of adult-to-adult discourse that having the baby with me did not interfere with.<p>It is one thing if the child and mother are healthy and happy and the father is facilitating that. What I have issue with is the fathers who oppress the mother/child relationship with their immaturity and selfish demands. The mother should not have to choose between her H and her child. Both the mother and the father should choose to nurture the child together. The father should educate himself about the needs of his child and adapt accordingly just as mothers do.<p>But there are a lot of "shoulds" that don't happen in real life, such as the one where spouses should be faithful to each other. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If a man is going to have an A because his W doesn't want to leave the baby with a sitter, that's a pretty shallow man, IMO. For instance, part of my H's whine is that I didn't keep the house clean enough for him when I was on BEDREST during a middle-aged high-risk pregnancy conceived AT HIS REQUEST!!!!!<p>I just have no patience for this type of misogynistic entitlement crapola, which is why I am having a difficult time committing to this R. If that's all it takes to flush me, the kids HE WANTED, and the M down the toilet--a temporary disability--then what's the point? If that's as deep as his character and commitment get, then I have a hard time finding anything of value except for whatever may be there for my children in being in an intact home.<p>And how comforting to know that in a health crisis, he will be there for me and help me through it..... mmmmm, Yeah, sure! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

Conqueror -<p>I really agree with most of what you are saying. In my case, I repeatedly asked my husband about his feelings after the children and heard "No, I don't feel slighted." etc. He sabotaged alone time together, ignored me when the children were asleep, wouldn't share feelings or thoughts or his life (except when he needed something) and then wondered why I preferred my children's company to his. I was very defensive when he criticized me and my mothering and I should have worked on this, on listening to him. His communication style is very choppy and he says outlandish things without any back-up. I finally said that if he was willing to read the books I had read we could discuss them, otherwise he had no say.<p>Still, I tried listening and ironically, we were to go on our first date in four years on D-day! The whole date thing angers me to no end as some children just aren't ready for that but there are so many options in between for couples to find alone time and undivided attention for one another. You need to make a connection every day not just once per month.<p>I know couples who go out on dates and take extended vacations "to save their marriage" and fight the whole time. They don't make daily connections and their marriage and their children are none the better for the separation. I also know couples who never go anywhere without their kids and love it, still find time to make a connection.<p>It isn't about a date night or getting away from those awful children. It is about how you are to one another all of the time. Yes, the marriage needs to be a priority & should come before career, etc. But kids need us first & foremost. If the H is mature and honest & be able to talk or POJA he can have it all. And they grow up so fast (children, not men [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] ).<p>fairydust - I am sorry you were slammed by other APer's. You might understand that many children cannot handle separation as your child has or we don't have the trusted individuals to do so. My oldest is so secure now I joke that she would happily let Satan babysit her. But we had to wait a long time for this. My second separates more easily but is very clingy the following day.<p>There are no hard and fast rules but each family needs to decide what works best for everyone. <p>And yes, I am a very *active* member of LLL (LOA now) but have attended 1 meeting in our new area & the moms are wonderful.<p>[ May 01, 2002: Message edited by: nursebetty ]</p>

<<<fairydust,<p>I have nothing against nights out or anything like that. My point is that this issue, just like many, many others, needs to be POJA-ed. And preferably BEFORE a child enters the picture. I see the main problem in so many of these situations as the men who CHOOSE to be ignorant about a child's needs and do the usual sloughing off onto the woman the all child care and then bi*ching about it when it inconveniences them or interferes with their perceived entitlement.>>>><p>I think a big problem lies in the fact that many men need it spelled out to them, in detail, exactly what caring for a child entails, exactly what their responsibilities will be and exactly how it will affect them as a couple. And that doesn't happen often. We discussed all of this at length and luckily we both agreed on everything.<p><<< I had no trusted caretaker or doting grandparents nearby, and I did not want to leave my babies anyway. It caused me great anxiety, not to mention physical discomfort, to be away from my nursing babies. I easily took them wherever I went and was able to have plenty of adult-to-adult discourse that having the baby with me did not interfere with.>>>><p> Luckily we do have 2 great Grandmas (the only people who have ever watched our kids). We always have taken the babies out, but it's just not the same IMO. It's not a "date", and I need that, not just my husband. We have to choose a family friendly place (I won't take my kids to fancy, adult oriented restaurants, I think it's rude to the other patrons) and we always feel rushed (neither of our kids liked to sit long in one place as infants).
I guess I'm playing devil's advocate here because I, even as a Mom, can see how not taking enough "couple" time could wreak havoc on a marriage. I love being a Mom and I gave up a good career to stay home. BUT if my H told me that every time I had a baby I couldn't go anywhere alone with him or by myself, even for afew hours, for at least a year, it would have been extremely detrimental to me and the marriage. I would have become very depressed, lonely and isolated. I NEED those occasional dates, to get out and feel like I'm not just a Mom, but still an attractive, interesting woman on my other merits. I could see how a husband could have a need for that kind of interaction too. Granted, it is NEVER the BS "fault" when a WS cheats, but there are things that can set the stage where the conditions are more ripe for an A to happen. Or even just for the marriage to grow apart without an A.<p>
<<< What I have issue with is the fathers who oppress the mother/child relationship with their immaturity and selfish demands. The mother should not have to choose between her H and her child.>>>><p>I do agree, but I guess it depends on what one considers immature and selfish. I've been told that my desire for 4 hours alone per month out to dinner with my H (while the kids are with Grandma) is immature, selfish and makes me a bad mother. I totally disagree. So some women whose husband wants an occasional date would consider that just awful behavior. I find it totally reasonable. I have just observed way too many women (I'm much more observant of other people's marraiges since the A) totally cast their husbands aside and basically treat them like a necessary annoyance once the kids arrive. And I have heard these same women rag on their husbands for wanting any attention at all. Yet they will be shocked when he walks out or has an A, despite the fact that he has been totally neglected. I also watch couples who have zero interaction with each other except for the kids. They will be strangers when the kids leave the house (if the marriage survives that long).<p><<<<Both the mother and the father should choose to nurture the child together. The father should educate himself about the needs of his child and adapt accordingly just as mothers do.>>><p>I totally agree. My husband is an awesome Dad IMO. But we totally agree on our parenting style and it works for both of us (and for the kids).<p><<<But there are a lot of "shoulds" that don't happen in real life, such as the one where spouses should be faithful to each other.>>><p>Very true. <p><<<<If a man is going to have an A because his W doesn't want to leave the baby with a sitter, that's a pretty shallow man, IMO.>>>><p>But it's not that simple. It goes much deeper than that. Since I also have a need for that kind of occasional alone time with my husband I can see it becoming a much larger issue.<p><<<For instance, part of my H's whine is that I didn't keep the house clean enough for him when I was on BEDREST during a middle-aged high-risk pregnancy conceived AT HIS REQUEST!!!!!>>>><p>Now that is ridiculous.<p><<<If that's all it takes to flush me, the kids HE WANTED, and the M down the toilet--a temporary disability--then what's the point?
And how comforting to know that in a health crisis, he will be there for me and help me through it..... mmmmm, Yeah, sure! [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] >>>> <p>I agree with that, but a health crisis is something different, something out of anyone's control. Not something it is possible to discuss and agree on (like parenting).

Although not exactly on AP, this article by Dr. Harley was highlighted in this month's MB newsletter.

<<<<In my case, I repeatedly asked my husband about his feelings after the children and heard "No, I doesn't feel slighted." etc.>>>><p>I think that kind of behavior is pretty tupical of peopel who have affairs, no matter what the issue at hand is. The whole conflict avoidance thing. My H kept telling me that everything was fine up until the day he walked out.<p><<<<Still, I tried listening and ironically, we were to go on our first date in four years on D-day! The whole date thing angers me to no end as some children just aren't ready for that but there are so many options in between for couples to find alone time and undivided attention for one another. You need to make a connection every day not just once per month.>>><p>Marriages do need to be nurtured every day. But for me, getting out of the house as a couple is also a must. We look forward to our dates, and we look forward to coming home and seeing the kids. We do have alone time when the kids go to bed, but by then we are tired too. So that is a different, more mellow kind of together time. We are both very conscious of the daily need to work on the marraige, and we both do that. But we feel that couple time out of the house is all part of that. There is just something sepcial about getting dressed up and going out for a little while, to a grown up place. It gives things an extra shot of romance for us.<p><<<<It isn't about a date night or getting away from those awful children.>>><p>I've never thought of it that way. I've never thought of my kids as awful. But I do have a definite need for an occasional grown ups only evening.<p><<<<fairydust - I am sorry you were slammed by other APer's.>>>><p>They were totally vicious. Downright evil. And at least 2 of them seemed to have this attitude like their husbands were wallets who donated sperm, to be ignored unless absolutely necessary. <p><<<You might understand that many children cannot handle separation as your child has or we don't have the trusted individuals to do so. My oldest is so secure now I joke that she would happily let Satan babysit her. But we had to wait a long time for this. My second separates more easily but is very clingy the following day.>>><p>I do understand if there was no trusted sitter to leave them with. Only the Grandmas have watched the kids. I have no idea what we would have done if we didnt' have that. I guess I would have had to look really hard for someone else we could trust. I'm sure in that case our dates would have been very few and far between, but I still would have needed to go out occasionally. As far as kids not being ready, I don't know about that. I just left pumped bottles with Grandma and we went out. It was never a big deal. Both of them have always been very happy and secure, so an occasional few hours with Grandma doesn't seem to have damaged them.<p><<<There are no hard and fast rules but each family needs to decide what works best for everyone.>>><p>Which is pretty much my point. If a couple doesn't agree on a parenting style/lifestyle I can see things going downhill in a marriage pretty fast.