My H and I are in early recovery. A couple of weeks ago we were talking about our M and rebuilding every day, now it's maybe 1 or 2 a week. I'm feeling depressed and sad again. I try to talk, but it's just like the old times, when he's too tired, too stressed from work etc.<p>I feel in my gut something isn't right. He hasn't done anything, other than not talk as much, to make me feel this way, but something doesn't seem right. The actions/behaviours of that time, seem to be present. It's hard to say exactly what actions/behaviours. Am I making sense? I think it's the way he looks at me or doesn't look at me when I bring something up and lack of communication. <p>Is this just part of the process? Is what I'm feeling normal? It's so hard to trust him again after the 2nd D-day. I can't seem to let go of this gut feeling. Is it just me?<p>I still have Spector on the computer, so he's not doing anything here. He admitted to going to the library twice to use the computers there, but says there was not contact. He checked to see if she wrote, and she didn't. (That's because I e-mailed her when I found out the 2nd time and told her if there was any contact I would tell her H.) My H knows I did this, and seemed to be okay with it. <p>I can't help but wonder if he's not being completely honest and if he's still using the computers at the library. I'm thinking of hiring an investigator. Is this wrong? How do I go about finding one? I don't know if I should or not, but I can't get rid of this doubt and it's hard putting all I can into our M with this on my shoulders. If I knew he wasn't contacting her, it would be much easier. <p>Any advise would be appreciated.<p>Thanks,
H&S

Dear H&S, I don't have any great advice for you but I understand what you are going thru. d-day 3 was about a week and a half ago and at first he was very loving, open and honest like he never was before. But now he's back to avoiding things. I am so depressed I can barely function and in my gut I also feel something isn't right. I don't know if getting a PI would be good or not, I know I mentioned something like that to my H and he said if I did it would be over and I guess I feel like if I had to go that far it should be over also. It's just hard not to really know especially when you've been trying to trust for so long. How long have you been in recovery? Hang in there, I know it's hard. HUGS to you DBD

Don't despair.<p>It is all a part of the normal process.<p>What kinds of things are you doing for you? I found when I focused on me and other things (not H, or the A, or OW) I experienced the greatest growth.<p>And, yep, I know how hard it is. Right after Christmas... when I knew I had been doing the best plan A... I heard a message from her about how she would wait forever. That's when I discovered how really strong I had become... but it took a lot of reading... working on me... to get to that place.<p>Hugs... the only thing you can do is to keep moving forward...<p>Cali

day by day,<p>Thank you for your reply. I've been in recovery, real recovery, since Mar. 6/02. When I found out the fist time (Nov. 01) I let it go. I guess I was in a fog then as well. It was finding out the second time that brought me to this site. <p>We have followed alot of the advice/info. from this site, and I believe it's what saved my marriage. <p>It's just so hard to trust again. I was a fool too trust soo quickly the first time, it seems I am being sooo cautious now. <p>I know I have to be patient - I'm just not the patient type. But I'll try.<p>H&S<p>Cali,<p>Thank you. I'm still very happy for you!<p>I know I have to start doing my own things, but it's so hard when I'm feeling so depressed. I just wish I knew for sure that it was over, then it would be so much easier to move forward. Any thoughts regarding the PI?<p>H&S

IMO, I wouldn't hire a PI unless you're pretty sure something's going on. Maybe someone else will have a different perspective. <p>Your main complaint is his behaviors at home. Plan A is for YOU - so you can focus on yourself - your behaviors - and learn to meet his needs and avoid LB's. How is your Plan A going? Is he willing to join you in counseling? Have you both read Harley's books - His Needs, Her Needs, and Surviving an Affair?<p>I wouldn't consider yourselves totally in recovery if he's not willing to open up his life to you (his schedule, his where-abouts, etc.), so dig yourself deep into Plan A until you can gain his cooperation.<p>I hope you get some more opinions on the PI. I may be wrong.<p>Hang in there!!

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>. I just wish I knew for sure that it was over. <hr></blockquote><p>I didn't know for a long time. Even after he promised not to call her... I didn't know . His withdrawal process played into that... his spirit was closed to me.<p>That could be what you are feeling... Now your question would be... how to open his spirit to you... LOVEBANK DEPOSITS... <p>Think back to your courtship days... what opened up his spirit to you then? DO IT!<p>As for PI... I wouldn't... but that's a personal decision. <p>Cali

Hurt,
You are in a tough stage, made more difficult since you thought the A was over once. I've been there. Each time I found the A had resumed, he told me it was over and there was no further contact. We also separated 7 times...so when I say we've been in recovery now for nearly 2 years, it feels to me like a major accomplishment that my trust in him is building...and he has behaved trustworthily for all this time--or we've talked about what feels "off" to me.<p>And, just to let you know before I continue on with my story of the bad times, we're doing very well, we're a team, we're in love, and well on the road to being healed & happy.<p>When my H's PA started, he always told me he was stressed from work or depressed. He was clearly stressed & depressed...so now when I see that behavior, my gut clenches. He continues to be stressed at work, not so much depressed anymore. But, we talk about what is going on in his world, if he & I are ok, if we need to spend some quality time together (usually!). <p>But, it had to start somewhere after those 6 failed reconciliations. My effort was giving him the chance and time to prove himself. In the first 6, he didn't know if he was committed, he didn't know if he wanted to be married, some of the time he knew he loved me, othertimes, he was quite certain he didn't. And he works with the FOW even now, so she was always around in his weak moments.<p>I did a long Plan A, 18 months. Probably a little too long, but, I made my decisions as I went along, and it seemed right at the time. I did try Plan B in both the 5th & 6th reconciliations, but with our kids (and for me) it simply didn't seem to work. The 7th separation, I gave up, served D papers, began to move on with my life.<p>THEN he wanted the marriage and began to Plan A me, 4 months later we reconciled, because his behavior showed that he was making changes and was sincere.<p>I didn't believe we were in recovery for the first 6 months. But, every day, he was accountable...and he didn't walk out and I started to realize we were doing ok.<p>Certainly, I wouldn't wish my experience on anybody, except the success part [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] , but I think if your H is telling the truth and behaving trustworthily, time will prove it so.<p>You don't have to trust your H right now, he hasn't earned your trust by trustworthy behavior over a period of time (months & months). If you want your marriage, keep your lovebusters to an absolute minimum, and give him time. <p>If he screws up, you can decide then what you want to do next.<p>It's very normal to hook behaviors from pre-A to worries post A. And I found it difficult to tell the difference between gut instinct and anxiety. I try to concentrate on whether it is an old memory (trigger) that is unsettling me or whether it is new behavior or situations. The new needs to be dealt with differently than the triggers--which need to be let go as you can do so.<p>Rather than a PI, I'd recommend going to a good counselor. <p>And, I also found Paxil to be helpful to me for about 6 months, starting in the 5th reconciliation to even out my emotions, so I could think more clearly and to help with my anxiety, I actually went off before we finally reconciled the last time.

I have to make this quick. I have 15 minutes then Dora will be over and the kids will be all over me.<p>Thank you for your replies. I guess I needed a push to get motivated again. My H and I talked, read and completed some more questionnaires last night. I feel much better. I know we need to keep up the communication in order to rebuild.<p>Cali - I will work on A. I will make love deposits daily and I will not Lb. I hope I can be as strong as you.<p>Faith1 - You're right also. Plan A. FYI - My H and I our in counselling and it is paying off. It was the counsellor who made my H realize/admit what he did was an A. I've been waiting two weeks now for my copy of SAA. Should be getting it soon. It seems to be a very popular book! I have read After an Affair and my H is reading it now.<p>Lor - Yes my gut clenches with that behaviour as well. It's such a feeling of despair, eh. (Yes I am Canadian) I hope with time and communication this will end. My H and I discussed this last night. He understands and says he will be supportive of my lows. You have been through so much and yet you're still so positive. I hope I can react the same.<p>Soo, no to the PI and yes to Plan A. Thanks for the encouragement and the support.<p>H&S

Hurt and Sad,,
I agree with Faith that you shouldn't hire a PI unless you feel fairly certain that something is going on. I suspect that something IS still going on. However, a PI is not going to be able to help you much with that if his only contact is at the library. Just the fact that he is going to the library is a HUGE, MAJOR red flag. Regardless of the reason, [and his are very invalid] there is no reason whatsoever for him to use the computer at the library unless he is still in contact. That makes me think that something is still going on. <p>If you think there is one on one contact outside of the internet, I would definately suggest hiring a PI because you need to use every means possible to find out what is going on behind your back if the truth is being withheld from you. <p>Another thing that was pointed out that I wanted to emphasize. When you are betrayed so badly, it takes a long time to ever trust that person. For that reason, while you should STILL heed gut feelings, you have to be more careful in discerning them. <p>For example, even the most innocent of actions may set off false alarms for some time and you don't want to act on them or you will cause further damage to the recovery process. So please be real careful in acting on any suspicions and be diligent in separating fact from fiction.

Hi H&S,<p>Sorry that you were feeling down. This feeling is normal. Remember the rollercoaster -- it will continue for a long time. I know that I used to (an sometimes still do) about whether contact is still happening. There is really nothing you can do about this. Remember you cannot control you H, only yourself. If there is continued contact you will find out about it at some point -- it is really pointless at this time to worry about it. Just keep up a great Plan A. You H will realize what a great person you are, rediscover all the reasons he married you and not want to be emotionally involved with anyone else.<p>The trust issue is really hard. This is something that can only be built over time, by the things your H does to protect you. But, one thing you can do right now is "fake it until you make it". Don't worry about the things you can't control. If you and your H are communicating and he seems to be following through with things, then even if you don't really, totally trust him, act like it -- I mean for yourself, deep down. I know that some of the trust for my H has built up already. The other suggestion I have is to really communicate with your H -- tell him your feelings. If it concerns you that he goes to the library to use the internet, express that to him using I statements -- I feel bad when you do this, I feel insecure, etc. Don't accuse him and don't demand that he stop, just express your feelings. <p>I don't recommend the PI. Really what good will it do. You should really examine why you want to hire a PI. If it is to get evidence that could be used later on if things lead to divorce (it doesn't help here in the states usually because divorce is generally no fault) then it might be useful. If not, I don't really see the point. Both of you already know he had the A. If it is continuing, what would be your plan? If you would still Plan A, that that is what you should keep doing anyway. This will produce the same result and will save you all that $$$$$$$.<p>One final thought, sometimes the WS just wants to forget about everything -- they don't want to keep remembering the A. Remember that the WS feels tremendous guilt. I mean TREMENDOUS guilt when they finally "get it". If you were burdened with this you would probably want to run away from it sometimes, too. Communication is the key to working through this. Your H is also probably feeling a lot of self-loating. The more he loves you and realizes how great you are the guiltier he feels and more he hates himself. Communication will help him as well. I have seen these feelings in my H lately. He has recently said to me that he doesn't know how he could ever have done this -- what was he thinking -- why was he so stupid, etc. Just like it is important for him to be there for your triggers and when you feel bad about the A, it will be important for you to be there for him through this.<p>Stay strong. Ride the coaster. Take care.<p>FHO

MelodyLane,<p>Thank you for your reply. I think I should give you some more info. and then tell me if you still think something is going on.<p>My H checked his e-mail at the library twice since the 2 D-day (Mar 6). The first time was the day after and then about a week after that. I think he was going through withdrawal at this time. He was honest and told me about a week after. I really don't think he's still going to the library, just insecurities and mistrust I think, but it would be nice to know for sure.<p>I know it will take some time to trust him again, and I will careful. Thanks.<p>H&S

Hi FormerHopelessOne,<p>It's great hearing from you again. Yes - I am riding the rollercoaster. But you know, there seems to be more good times than bad now. I already feel better today. Everyone here is great, and the MC is really helping.<p>You know, my H has said sorry, but he hasn't expressed the guilt and other feelings you mentioned. I really have to push for him to open up. It's always been this way, but in the past, I would just let it ride. I will make a point of discussing this with him tonight. I will Plan A and try hard not to Lb. I no longer feel the need for a PI.<p>Thanks,
H&S

Feel free to email me at "Jollyniceblokey@aol.com" - I hope I can help.