I have really enjoyed "chatting" with people through these posts. I look forward to hearing back and connecting and sharing. I feel like I like these people and enjoy them. <p>Can these relationships/connections become EA's? How do we make sure that they don't become EA's without giving up how special they are? Does anyone else wonder about this?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by ashirley:
[QB<p>Can these relationships/connections become EA's? How do we make sure that they don't become EA's without giving up how special they are? Does anyone else wonder about this?[/QB]<hr></blockquote><p>Not me. I could never become emotionally involved with someone on the internet. I'm way too suspicious lol. Personally internet romance makes zero sense to me. I have to have a real live person in front of me.

Hi ashirley:<p>Good question. I think it's happened at least once since I joined this forum. I didn't follow it, but I saw talk about it.<p>I guess my thinking on this is that we're just as susceptible (and not) to having an A as a result of conversations on this forum as anywhere else in our lives. So the thing is, how are we doing dealing with our own weaknesses? I've never had an A, myself, and used to think it was just that I wasn't attractive, but I've been corrected!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] But that means I just must not "give in" to the temptation, at least not to the extent my W has [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Be interesting to see what others have to say about this.

Don't let it become personal. Don't correspond with opposite sex members from this site by email (or, if you are attracted to the same sex, don't correspond by email with such).<p>The gender of the members of this site are mostly irrelevant. I try to not even attach a gender to a poster. If a gender is important, I look at them as no different than a counselor. Hopefully, no one would fall for their counselor. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>The second you develop an "attraction" or a desire for a specific person at this site, you know you are in trouble. There are threads that I have read here to make me wonder if such is going on.<p>The danger of such is real.

I guess my real question is what is an EA? What differentiates it from friendship between a man and a woman? Is it okay to be sharing and caring about each other in these public forums? We get emotionally involved..we don't stay completely detached do we? I like feeling emotionally attached...rather than just numb or neutral. Does "caring" about a person, mean that I'm having an EA? I'm just confused, or am I just looking for a way to justify my feelings that I had for the OM? ["We were just friends, we never touched,,,yada, yada, yada...]We are complicated beings aren't we?

We can't help falling for our counselors. They are so smart, witty, perceptive, kind, everything we're looking for! {Just teasing! I'm really, truly, not making a move!!!)

There's some really good topics that come up when you do a search for "friends", using the SUBJECT ONLY filter.<p>This one is the one I remember from a few weeks ago.<p>M/F Friendships<p>As far as MB is concerned, I think it is actually pretty rare between MB'ers, because we learn so much about affairs, the pain they cause, and how to avoid them. Friendships have formed on here, but I believe the ones I've heard about are simply more like "family". Like we all have a special bond. THere's also an unwritten "code" - that we wouldn't dare cross with one another. Sort of like accountability... example: if I developed a friendship from MB, and began to have "those feelings" - acted on them, I'd be scared the other person would run here and tell everyone! <p>I say that in a joking manner, but to me, this is how "real-life" should be. Besides the fact that affairs are just WRONG, it should be that no one would DARE cross boundaries by interfering with a marriage - whether it be for fear of scorn by others in the community, or fear of simply ripping a family apart.<p>So to attempt to answer your question - well I believe some others already have - an EA is something you would hide from your spouse. It's also something that interferes with your marriage (emotionally or physically), or your feelings for your spouse. An EA is a relationship you couldn't walk away from if your spouse asked you to (POJA - would your spouse enthusiastically agree with your "friendship"???). An EA consumes your thoughts. And I think you also would care more for that person than you do for your spouse. <p>Just my 2 cents... well, maybe 1 cent....<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</p>

Hi all,<p>My H had an on-line A. It was very emotional - much more than just friends. They never met in person, but they exchanged photographs and they had sex. <p>I think that once you start saying things to eachother that you would not say in front of your spouse, it's an A.<p>Sorry if I've turned this serious, but it is to me and others in my situation, and I have to admit, some of your comments are upsetting.<p>H&S

H&S,
This is a serious topic. I agree.<p>IMO, your decription matches something I also said, that if your "friendship" is not something your spouse KNOWS about or would ENTHUSIASTICALLY approve of, then it's inappropriate.<p>What was upsetting to you? I hope it wasn't anything I said. [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]

Infidelity -- sexual or not -- is any behavior that violates the following rule:<p>"Never do or say anything with another person of the opposite sex that you wouldn't do or say in front of your spouse."<p>My husband knows that I post both here and on infidelity.com (same screen name.) He sure doesn't like it -- I get a lot of sneering comments about my "internet friends," and how I have a new job as an "internet counselor" -- but this is the only outlet I have for dealing with this.<p>Well, that and breaking stuff. But I'm running out of dishes and my throat hurts from screaming.
If you keep appropriate boundaries in place and follow the rule I mentioned, you are not doing anything wrong. You are only trying to help yourself.<p>Psycho_B***h

H&S:<p>I think ashirley's question was serious. <p>My W had an EA/PA, that was by far more damaging to our M because it was an EA. For the past couple of years, most of their EA consisted of sending explicit email to each other. My W actually told me that for a while when she was spending full-time in the office, she would anxiously await OM's replies all day, every day, and get very little work done. They only met about 3 times in the past year and a half, and had sex twice. <p>Yes, EAs are very serious. Primarily because it's hard for those that get sucked into them to see where the line is crossed. In my W's case, though she thinks she's ended the A, she is still choosing to keep things from me, and so the possibility of another EA happening eventually, has not been addressed. It will be, though. Mark my words! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

I think that this is an excellent question.<p>I think that if you can't tell your spouse how you feel and what you think about a friend then you are crossing that line.<p>I post on the pregnancy/child forum because that's where my H's affair landed us. He had a 7-year, on-again-off-again affair that ended with the birth of their child. We are in recovery. We have rebuilt our marriage (using lots of MBers concepts, but not all) and have recently adopted two boys from Russia. We have visitation with his daughter from his affair.<p>However, during his affair (which I knew nothing about), I had what might have been an Emotional Affair. I have confessed said affair to my H and he cares not. For him, I did not cross the line between thoughts and actions and so I did not break my marriage vows. I would like to agree, but I think that lets me off the hook too easily.<p>I met a man at work who shared many of my own interests. He was from Latin America and I was just recently back from living in Spain and getting a second degree. With my H's full knowledge and consent we began meeting at lunch to work on my Spanish and his English.<p>We clicked. I was lonely and unhappy in my marriage (little did I know that H was carrying a full-blown PA/EA right under my nose, just that we lived very separate lives). My friend and I loved foreign films, had the same political views, loved cooking and good food, each spoke a few languages, and were attracted to each other.<p>I guess I fell in love. I started picturing a life with this man, comparing him (unfavorably) to my H, thinking about him all the time. Neither he nor I ever, ever said a single word about this attraction. I never said an unkind word about my H nor uttered a single solitary complaint against my M. When I realized I was putting my marriage in jeopardy because this man filled my thoughts more than any other friendship in my life ever had, I pulled back. My friend let me go without even asking why.<p>A year or so later H and I moved across country. (I didn't know it at the time but H was fleeing to get away from his PA/EA.) My friend gave me a gift--the first and only gift in our friendship. It was a movie about a married couple and their unmarried male friend. The married woman and the single man fall in love. They are about to run away together (even though they have not had physical relations). At the last minute, they realize that they cannot do this to her husband, her children. It was the first time I knew that my feelings were returned.<p>I have lived away from that state for 3 years now. The only time I have ever spoken to him again was the day after I learned of my H's affair and child (back in the state where we used to live). He told me he was engaged to be married and we kept the conversation short. I truly had been hoping he was still available. If he had asked me at that moment I would have left and never looked back.<p>I now think that he did not date during our friendship because I was preventing him from getting on with his life. I am sorry for that. I am glad I never surrendered my integrity and he never surrendered his. I hope that he is happy, but I will not call him to find out (even though we still work at the same company and have free telephone service between us).<p>I feel like I didn't have an EA because I never crossed certain lines--we did not speak of our feelings and we had no physical intimacy of any type. We never saw each other w/o my H knowing that we were getting together that day. (As opposed to my H who was supposed to be off at business dinners or sports team but was across town with his lover instead.) However, my friends at work saw us together and teased me about falling in love so I guess my feelings were fairly obvious, except to my H who assumed that since my friend wasn't dating that he was gay. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I feel like I kept my marriage vows. If we had had any type of physical contact, even holding hands or kissing, or if I had told him of my feelings or betrayed my H by complaining about him than I would feel that I had not kept my marriage vows. As it was, I made the only correct decision--to end a realationship that was a threat to my marriage and I did it without any outside influence. Maybe I will call the Harley's talk show on Monday and see what they think.<p>MJ<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</p>

Faith1,<p>I was typing my reply as you were typing yours. So no - nothing you said upset me, I agree with your reply - you just say it so much better.<p>Sorry if I was hard on any of you, I'm just having a bad day. If you have a chance can you check out "Slipping back, help!"<p>Thanks,
H&S

Ashirley,
I'm glad you brought this up...frankly I've been thinking about that precise issue for a few days.<p>Here's the rub; we're all hurting to some extent or another, and we're all susceptible, or at least have "moments of weakness" while we are going through what some of us are going through. (Witness BLEEDER or BLEEDING's post about how he "solved" his pain).<p>So, undoubtedly, when we connect with someone of the opposite sex on the boards here or thru direct email, and we give advice, comfort and console each other, and then we thank and appreciate each other for what we did, it is only natural for the possibility of "love bank deposits" being made.<p>If our particular situation seems hopeless, or somehow feels like it will never get better, our feelings can begin to act up, and we say to ourselves things like "boy, I wish my W were like xxx who's so kind and perceptive", or "I wonder what it would be like to meet xxx"...<p>Anyway, I think we all get the picture, and I think that the only things that will keep anything like that happening between 2 members of this board are our sense of respect for the Board and what it has given us, and is giving us, and what we learn here about the pain and the disrespect As have, and our own sense of right and wrong.<p>I do not doubt that over time there will be exceptions to this, since many of us will go through moments of weakness or despair, and possibly "fog", which could lead to having two people here connect and think that they have found their "soul-mate". But it'll be like any other A; when the fog clears, reality will set in. After all, the picture we get of each other here is a very small window into what the whole person might be like.<p>So, we must be watchful of our own weaknesses, or moments of weakness, and not allow our despair to deceive us into thinking that we could find our soul-mate within the narrow confines of something like the MB boards.<p>I, for one, have corresponded via email with some members of the board of the opposite sex, but not only have I told my W (and offered her the chance to communicate with someone in a situation like hers), but I am very careful about making sure that the other member approves of everything I say or do, making sure that any correspondence between us will not hurt their spouses or their situation. I will ask for permission to email, will respect any knowledge of their identity, and will make sure that anything I am writing is proper and, even if found by a spouse, will clearly be a plea on my situation or advice on their situation which could in no way be construed to be improper.<p>The enormous value of the communications for both of us is important, and has helped me (and hopefully helped the other person) so I guess that more-than-usual precautions should be taken when doing it to ensure it cannot be construed as anything improper.<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</p>

ashirley:<p>Another deterrent to any of us becoming involved with another member of this forum is that we know what a "revenge A" is, and we know that it's the only thing that's worse than the original A that brought us to this site in the first place. Because it'd be much more "premeditated."

ashirley,<p>I think you need to keep your guard up because it is easy to make a "connection" with someone with the written word. You don't necessarily see them for who they are, just what you read. They control the image for better or worse. It is very likely that many that post are not as bad as they seem, and others are probably worse than they seem.<p>When I first discovered "chatting" around 5 years ago, I struck some friendships that were addicting. I started acting out on those and struck up an EA with one person on there. She grew much more attached than I did and I eventually ended it. When my W discovered it, she was deeply hurt by it and it has impacted our marriage to this day. I believe that because my W detected there was emotion involved, it was just as bad as a full PA/EA. To her this was being unfaithful, which I have come to agree with. At the time I was clouded by being anonymous, but the reality was I was filling someone elses love bank, and not my W's.<p>So I would be careful of online relationships. "Aquaintences" are much safer for people that have inflicted are have suffered from the effects of EA/PA's.

My answer would come in the form of a question:<p>How would I expect to get good honest advice from someone that I was involved in an EA with on a site such as this? If he couldn't help starting an EA on this site, then that would be in my opinion a pretty serious character flaw. No thanks, I'll pass.

Your post caught my eye because I struggle with this very thing. Last year I became very emotionally dependent on a fellow MB. He always said just what I needed to hear. Not always what I wanted to hear, but he was honest and open with me about the things I was dealing with. My H had an affair after 17 years of having my complete trust and respect. To say the least I was destroyed emotionally and had very little self-esteem left. <p>When I began posting on MB about a year ago now, I was so alone. First of all, I think I developed an EA with the MB site itself. I know that sounds bizzare but it controlled me for a time. I posted or read posts for hours at night, often only sleeping 3 hours a night. I checked on posts at least 2-3 hours during the day at work. This site was a gift from God. There when I needed it but I allowed it to become my strength rather than getting stronger myself. It seemed I couldn't make any decision or have a conversation with my WH unless I posted about it and got opinions on what I did right or wrong. <p>Then comes along a fellow MB who truly could be my best friend. He responses so honestly and with such compassion for what I'm feeling that I can't help but become dependent on him. Of course, this is the internet and I was careful not to give too much info at first. However, over the months I truly began to see this guy as my only friend. EA here I come. Not because of anything he did or said, I was just very lonely and he fulfilled one of my biggest EN's which is conversation. (as you can tell by the length of this post, I'm a talker)<p>Luckily enough, he was also very hurt by his wife's affair and his divorce and we became good enough friends that I could talk to him about what I was feeling and we were ok with it. We both knew that we would never be more than friends but there is a strong emotional bond between us. Yes for a while I became scary to him because I tended to flirt a bit, become too clingy, etc. As I said, I'm glad he is who he is because he could help me see that what I was feeling was real but not realistic for my life. He didn't make me feel dumb for loving him. Yes I say I love him because I truly do as a person. He helped me restore my faith in myself and I will never forget that. I am not in love with him and he knows that. We are good friends. We dont' "talk" often anymore as we have both moved on from those beginning dark depressed days of early separation. But he knows if there is anything he needs, I'm here for him and I know the same. <p>I guess what I'm trying to say is, YES, it is possible to let a MB friendship cross the line into an EA. However, if you are truly friends these feelings can be discussed and talked through. Dependence on this board and it's members is going to happen. Especially when people are hurt and betrayed and they come here and people actually understand what you are feeling. I was amazed at how I felt like I was reading my own story over and over on these boards. Reading posts and responses from MB's made me realize that I was not alone. I could make it and I was worthy of being happy. <p>It also taught me that I have to be careful about falling too hard too fast because I have a trusting, open nature. <p>In other words, a friendship becomes an EA when you start depending on it for self-validation, self-worth, etc. At least for me that was true. I started feeling incomplete unless I had the opinion of this fellow MB. It's been several months now since all the major emotional drama for me. I no longer live and die by MB. I like to read and post when I can help. However, I'm now past the stage of working on my marriage. Therefore I don't offer too much advice anymore.<p>I used to think I would run naked in the streets if it would bring my H out of the fog. Now, I think life's too short to put up with his BullS***. (He's been gone 14 months, living with OW for a yr now.) See why I don't offer too much MB advice anymore.<p>The best advice I ever got here was to Breathe In, and Breathe Out. Put Christ first in my life and all other areas will fall into line. <p>I'm sorry this is so long and I'm rambling. Hope this answered your question or at least helped in some way. Be careful but don't be afraid to trust. There are some really good people on this forum.<p>Good night and God Bless<p>PP

Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments and insights into this issue. All of you were so kind and sharing.
Thanks so much!