to all it is me hopenden. ww knows my other login name and thinks this is all stupid. <p>i had a feeling that my ww was and has been in contact with om but no proof. ww denies all any contact. ww has been looking for apartment to have time alone to work things through and possibly return to restore our marriage, but just felt time alone is a necessary step. i advised her all along that i feel she is talking to om or that she will contact him once she is out. she denied this said that is not why she is leaving, she is leaving to work on her, then if possible on our marriage. <p>ww works from home on mondays. i felt strongly that she was in contact with om, so i setup a tape recorder this past monday in the room that she works in when home. when i came home from work on monday she was leaving for an appointment. i reviewed the tape and there the conversation was. ww went on about how stupid i am and that i just don't get it. i post things on a site and i am so dumb. ww said "you told me to do something solid, something tangible, and everytime i get ready to do something you put me down." "i know i should have...i should have left back in the very beginning before he knew anything." of course i don't have the other half of the conversation just hers. but it appears to me he is demanding she leave and move out. before she came home i made the decision to make her leave. i cannot allow this to continue. i called the police to stand by while i asked her to leave. Colorado domestic violence law is very strict. if someone calls the police even for just two people arguing, someone goes to jail. so i wanted to do it all right. she drove up and when she opened the door, i advised her that i knew she talked to om today and i want her to leave. don't care where she goes just to leave. i asked if she had anything to say and all she said is "i don't care." "i'll leave." "i'll just go stay with him." "we are doing nothing but talking but oh well i'll leave." she did pack a bag and left. i assumed it was over and she was going to go stay with om. one hour later she returned. i asked her what she was doing, she said she was going to lay down and rest. i asked her the dumb question, why are you talking to him? she said that she just started talking to him 2 weeks ago as a friend. called him to ask if he would loan her $$ to find an apartment. says she advised him they can just be friends. i advised her what i heard on the tape wasn't two friends. <p>i advised her that if she was going to be in the house another day then she needed to either make the decision to work on the marriage and end all contact with om forever or leave and go to him. she said that she will think about staying, just not sure. said she has given me chances and doesn't think i will let things go. never mind what she was just caught doing. i asked her to promise no contact in the meantime and forever if she decided to stay. she would not do this. said that if she decides to stay, she will promise to no contact forever. i said then she wants to leave it open in the meantime so she can contact him. said no, she knows she cannot contact him but is not willing to promise at this time. <p>i am such a mess, i want to believe her when she says that she has only been in contact with him for the last two weeks, but i don't. she says they have not meet in person just phone contact. says that they are just speaking as friends now. i guess i know no why nothing has worked, why she is so determined to move out and wants to do so as soon as possible. why am i such a fool?

really needing help!!

I don't know your story so I'm not sure what advice I can give.
Have you worked on Plan A? Maybe the "shape up or ship out" directive came too soon from you?? It seems like your W is confused and says she wants to leave, but perhaps doesn't really want to. Hmmm - I don't know.
As difficult as this is , maybe you need to take the focus off OM and focus on HER and YOU. She knows you don't want contact and right now she can't promise that, but you can still plan A until that happens OR set a time limit on it.
Have you read any books? Have you two sought any counselling at all? I really think those are two good things to start with. (And maybe you've already done this).

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rayoflight:
<strong>really needing help!!</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I do not know your background or your previous screen name. Probably that is the reason why many MBer shy away.<p>Read up the link on missapplication of plan A by Distreesed. 2 things that you should not do ... 1. Result from snooping never use to "punish" or prove your case. Those result is for you to trace your progress in plan A. 'Cause from now on she will probably will not use home phone to contact OM, you loos your way of monitoring your plan A. 2. Where are you at your plan A ?. Even at plan B you do not do this. What you did is a "tough love" approach !. A very dangerous steps if OM is ready to take her !.<p>Promised me that all snoopings or emotions check it here first. Get a second opinions on what your next steps are.<p>Damage is not too bad. By her comming back it shows that OM is not ready to take her. Repair it quick !. You should appologize to her what you had said and done. Tell her that you love her and you want to work on M but your are hurting and your let your emotions take the better part of you. You just LB'ed.<p>How long have you in plan A ?, what is your plan A actions and dose she acknowledge your changes ?. Road to restoring your M has to come from the bottom of her heart !. Otherwise you could have false recovery or will have a stale M even you survive this A.<p>Back off from pushing her. Take what she gave you now and concentrate on you. That tape is very important for your plan A ... what ever her complaint about you to OM, is a real to her under her fog. Some key words "put down" - she needs to feel to be loved and appreciated. "i should have left" - she is not leaving, why ?, why not now ?, you have a chance to win this. Be patience, you might feel there is no progress however if you willing to post why, we might be able to put our second opinion on those.<p>Take a break from her for all of this mess, take a day trip by yourself !. If you could afford it, call SH and get conseling from him. Take this forum as a support system and get oppinion, for advice you need professional help.<p>Good Luck -RH-

thank you all for your help. i am an emotional mess right now. my previous screen name is hopenden.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rayoflight:
<strong>thank you all for your help. i am an emotional mess right now. my previous screen name is xxxxxx .</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll keep you company for today ... could you give me your old member number. Do you know that you could chnage your screen name w/o re-registering ?. Anyway, what is your current situation ?. Where is she now ? Do you have lastest update on your contact w/ her ?. If she is at home and around you ... appologize to her and just hold her !. You could get a relationship card and write a note to her ... buy a flower for her ... give it to her today.<p>-RH-

my other member number is 17531. <p>she is at work today and so am i. she keeps saying that she has to separate. not for om for her and that she is going to watch me and how i am during separation and that will determine if she comes back or not. i did apologize for making selfish demands and for recording her. she is just not willing to consider staying said she is leaving. geez, what now?

Ray-<p>You and I are in the exact same boat! WS and OM ended the PA about 1 month ago, but they still remain in contact "just as friends". They talk on the phone all the time and I suspect that he still takes her out for lunch and possibly dinner quite a bit, just like when the A was going on. WS tells me that there is nothing going on, and since they started out as friends, why can't they remain friends after the A is over? My reply is that they had an illicit affair, they were lovers and that fact will never change. If the situation were reversed, she would expect the exact same thing from me.<p>I have told her that the only way that we can work things out is for her to end all contact with him. She has read a little of SAA so she knows what this is all about. Unfortunately, she is under the impression that since the A is over, we should all just forget it happened and move on. From what I understand, OM's W is telling him the end it or move out, so maybe there is still hope for me.<p>I don't know all of your story so I really don't have much to offer. But, you have every right to expect WS to end all contact, it really is the only way for recovery to begin. To me, W's insistance that she move out is just an excuse to continue the A, but that is just my opinion, I may be wrong. But, ending all contact with OM has to come from her, you cant force it, if you do, she may just take him up on his offer. You need to back off a bit on this subject and wait until she is ready to talk about it.<p>There is some positive things in your post that should give you hope. From what you say about their conversation, I also get the feeling that he may be pressuring her to leave you and move in with him. When she left that night, she came back, that's another good sign. She said that she cant promise to end contact right now because she still feels like the 2 of you have a chance. If she was positive that your M was over, I think she would have left by now.<p>Don't give up, but do take an emotional vacation from all of this. The confrontation was a LB, none of us are perfect, just apologize for it and learn from it. One thing that I have realized is that you really have to let the WS go, let them make their own decisions, just be sure that you show her what she will be giving up if she does decide to leave. If you don't feel comfortable talking about the A or the M with W, let us be your support for now, use us to vent your feelings and frustrations, not WS.<p>PS- Where in Colorado are you? I'm in the Denver area.

thank you all for your replies. gosh i need them. this is really pushing me to my limits. <p>loverherstill i am in broomfield.

Ray-<p>Just up the road! Right now the weather sucks so I know that is having an effect on your mood, it is on mine. But, you really need to get out, get away for even a few hours, tell W that you are going out for a while to clear your head, I know she will understand. How about planning a drive this weekend up in the hills? Or maybe ask W out for lunch/dinner and promise yourself you wont bring up the A or your M, just spend time together. Baskin-Robbins has "Free Scoop Night" tonight, make an impromptu date. (I think I'll even ask my W out!)<p>she is going to watch me and how i am during separation and that will determine if she comes back or
not. My W tells me that it is up to me to win her back, I have to woo her, says that she finally (after 14 years of marriage) has a chance to decide of she really wants me. So maybe on the surface that sounds like poppycock, but there is some truth in it. Remember that you cannot control your W's actions, only the way you react to them. So here is a chance for you to prove to W how much you love her. If you become angry, hostile and bitter towards her because of the A, do you think she would really want to come back to you?<p>Redhat is absolutely right about the snooping, the information is for you alone, not to be used as a weapon. I read so many emails from W to OM and know so much information, so much truth about the A and what happened, but I have to keep that to myself and use it only to validate if what W is telling me is true, and so far she has been quite truthful. If snooping only causes you more grief, then don't do it, trust your gut feelings, they are almost always correct.<p>Be strong my friend, you will get through this and become a better person because of it. How much have you read on this site? What books have you read? What progress have you made for yourself? If you want to contact me through my email acct, its on my profile, I try to look at it at least once a day. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

redhat any other advice??? i really value your opinion as well as everyone else? keepem coming. rayoflight is also me, hopenden.

okay, ww says she knows she messed up by calling om. but said only contacted him as a friend nothing more. wanted to borrow $$ for apartment. said now she will not call him again. she doesn't need his help. still wants to move out and says will move out this weekend. said she will not be in contact with om while we are separated. says she will be watching me and how i react to all of this and that will determine if she comes back. says if om calls her she will tell him she cannot talk to him. do i believe any of this?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by hopenden:
<strong>... do i believe any of this?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Don't know about you but I would not. What could you do ... NADA. Now let her move out, be nice and help he move out ... however you plann all the snooping that you could in her new place. Are your kids moving with her ? how is the visitation arrangement ?. Make sure your kid stay home w/ you and let her have day visit only for now. Let her know that it is too much changes for them to take it.<p>Order kits for spying and also depending on which states you live .. some of baby bell allows you to view the bill online [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] . SBC allows you to do that. Let me know if you need some ideas on what to prepare and to get.<p>Plan A the best you can ... let her have the taste of her fantasy met the reality. -RH-

Ray/Hope-<p>If she is serious about no more contact with OM, will she be willing to send a 'no contact' letter, or is she just going to expect you to believe her when she says she is not talking/seeing the OM? I don't want to be cynical or anything, but I have heard the same thing over and over from WS, yet she continues to see him to this day, but only as 'friends'. Honestly, if the whole reason for them being together was for the EA/PA, how can any of them just be friends afterwards? Let her actions prove to you what she wants, just as she is looking at your actions during the separation.<p>Also, how long is she planning on being out of the house? I would seriously look into filing for separation. If she wants to be separated, then the 2 of you should make it legal. You can do it yourself for next to nothing. I know most county courts in Colorado even have classes on how to do it. Open up separate checking accounts, have her mail forwarded to her new address, make sure that you 2 really do live separate lives. Also, make sure that you and her have a very specific agreement on issues involving the kids, such as when she has them, when you have them, no men staying the night at her place when the kids are over, things like that.<p>This may sound a bit harsh, and it is. But, she needs to know that there are consequences to her actions and she just cant get up and leave and expect you to sit back and be ok with it. Redhat offers good advice (as always!) about helping her move and being nice to her. Also, have you read "Divorce Busters", I wonder if this might be a good time to throw a 180 in with your Plan A. If W sees that you are fine with her moving out and seem to be moving on with your life without her, it may spark a bit of interest/jealousy in her. Just a thought.

Also, the kids are going to need the both of you as much as possible. What are your plans on discussing the separation with them? Remember that kids are a lot smarter and more intuitive than we give them credit for, I would guess that the older 2 probably already know something about the A. Are they going to be there when W moves out this weekend? Do you have family, on either side, that live nearby and can help out.<p>What is so sad about all of this is that the repercussions of the A affect so many more people besides the WS and BS. There are the kids, the families, the OP and their kids and families, friends, the list goes on and on. I honestly think that A's are one of the most destructive things a person can do to a family, no one gets out of them without any permanent scars. It ranks right up there with emotional, physical and sexual abuse.

Thanks for your replies Redhat and Loveherstill.<p>redhat: i would be interested in what items to purchase? but i wonder would this help me or just continue my pain? sometimes i want to know and other times i don't the pain is so incredible. i am going to follow your advice on being nice, that is so hard. i am going to do all of the moving for her. she is supposed to be securing the apartment today. she is going to take the two youngest children and i am going to have the two oldest. every other weekend we will have all of them. that is our arrangement for now. <p>loveherstill: i have asked her if she would commit to no contact with om ever again. knowing they cant be just friends. she never commits. she says when she decides to stay or not then she will commit. but says she will not see him or call him.....even though she has and is not even out of the house yet. but they talked just ask friends.....there i go.<p>ww will not say how long she needs. just says she doesn't know and doesn't know if she will even come back. the kids will be here this weekend. we have no family in CO. we are both orginally from NE.

Ray/Hopen<p>Just wanted to see how the weekend went, things go ok? How are you doing today, I know this sucks, but stand tall, you haven't done anything wrong, W is the one who choose to have the A, continue the contact and move out!<p>I think that maybe your W and mine may be twins,. WS has also said that 'no commitment' crap many times, its just a way for them to continue the cake eating and get their way, hopping that us BS's will stick around until they make that big decision. I had to finally tell WS that in my opinion, she already has made that big decision with her continued contact with OM. The 'just friends' line is also right out of WS's book. I found out the other day that it was OM that she spent the whole day with shopping, not the friends she claimed it was, just another lie. I asked her why she lied (seems to be getting easier for her), she just said she didn't want to hurt me. Also said he had a job interview and she was there just for emotional support. Cripes, emotional support, what about my emotional needs?<p>Sorry, this is your thread, just had to let that one go. Anyway, the arrangement with the kids, do you think that is best? Having them split up like that must be hard. Most courts will insist that the kids stay together and remain in the primary residence and also stay in the same school. I think you need to talk to an attorney about all of this. W is the one who moved out, she really needs to get a dose of what reality really is and you need to have your legal rights protected.<p>What are your plans now, Plan A, Plan B, maybe a 180 or so. Seems like it is time to let W go, time for tough love, and focus on yourself and the kids.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

hopenden,<p>This is gray area of snooping, try this link or similiar spy website. Depend on your budget ... you could get GPS logger to wireless hidden camera. I would not sugest you to do that right now, IMO ... work on your plan A and focus in there. You are hurting right now, any snooping info will bankrupt your LB$.<p>Focus on your kids and be the best Dad you can be !. -RH-