That is part of his education. If he were to file someday, he should expect the boys half of the summer each year. Can you give him that little bit right now? Help him to see where it is taking him? It always takes me a long time to word things, but I suspect you can figure it out better than I could.

It begins to make sense to me. It begins to make much more sense.

Ss

Thanks SS, yes i've emailed him asking for more help with childcare over summer. Part of me doesn't expect a response, or not a positive one jusyt excuses but at least i have spoken my thoughts which is a change for me. I did it in a pleasant way so hopefully nothing to upset the peace. jante

Hi Jante,
I hope you found a way to communicate to him about future arrangements for sons visiting. It wouldn't hurt anything at all to begin "hammering" him with it now. ( in a nice way of course.) You are a kind person but it needs to be put to him in a way that he will understand what would happen after a D was final.

If you haven't yet, I feel you should put that to him. If you know that he would have them 1/2 the time next summer if he went ahead with a D, tell him. Be nice with the way you word things, but be blunt with the facts, and don't spare him the truth, he needs to know it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Had another talk with some of my sons about the difficult middle years. They say they don't understand why they rebel so much but they also say that they appreciated us continuing to love them and teach them. They act as if they hate us for it, but they don't. There is a scripture that sums it up pretty well. It is Proverbs 22: 6. Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
I know you already know this, as I have mentioned many times, I only offer it as support. You are training them correctly, you are doing as you should do. Don't despair that you aren't doing enough.

I mentioned a week or two ago that their are two sides. God wants the best for you but the other side does not. The fight between good and evil is real. Evil will bend all its will to try and destroy you in any way it can. If you and H are to get back together evil will try to destroy that chance. What is happening with your sons is part of that. I don't know all the ways we can be affected but the devil is good at what he does. He and those that help him will use every means they can to take your attention from working on your marriage. You will see unexpected problems come from all areas in the next few months. From work, from family, from sons, from H. Remember this warning, it will help you to cope. When these things come, you will be reminded by a feeling in your mind and heart that you have been forewarned, and you will know those problems for what they are. You can get through these things as you have done all the rest. You will also know that it was God that made it possible for you to overcome your troubles. Don't be distracted by these problems that come, focus on your family, and your relationship with H. Count on Gods help to quickly handle problems and continue to focus on sons, husband.

Now having said that, take a few weeks to re-charge and prepare. Take that time with your friends and laugh with them. Enjoy time with your sons, they love you dearly and look to you to take care of them and protect them. Show them your happy side, they need it too. That is part of their trouble, they are afraid. Show them courage, laughter, faith. God has never been nearer to you than he is right now. He knows you personally, he cares about you. He has given many charge concerning you and they watch over you and your family. You need not be afraid that any great harm will come to you or your sons. You will only see those problems common to this life, Job had worse than you or I will ever see. Again, don't be afraid, have faith in God.

I hope as you pray this week that God will fill you with his love and you will know that he does care for you, and watches over you. I believe that he will.

Sara tried to send a photo last night in e-mail to S. I hope it works, let me know. I think she failed the first time, sent it again.

I will be leaving about 6:00 am Wednesday for girls camp. I teach a compass course and I have my 2nd daughter on staff - she is already gone up. I also help set up camp and pack up when finished. Our church will have about 200 girls there between the ages of 12 and 18. This is my 5th year helping. So, I will be gone and may not post between now and Monday the 15th. If I am able I will check in on Saturday or Sunday. If not, will be back on-line on Monday. These next few months will see me gone quite a bit. If I don't check in as often, it's not because I don't care.
See you later,
SS

Hi SS well sent the email to h but judging by the conversation i have just had he either got it in a garbled form us is going to pretend he did.
So now I have to decide whether to wait until the w/e is over and if he doesn't mention it repeat it or whether to talk to him about it when i see him tomorrow night.
I'm feeling very down today- tired with the constant battle and the loeliness of the decision making and trying to split myself in three all the time for the boys.
As to what would happen if A D took place- that would be left up to H and i to decide unless we couldn't do it amicably and there is not set rules in UK over contact time etc. So in theory he could continue with things just as they are unless i disagreed.
hope tomorrow is a brighter day. Enjoy the camp.
Jante

Hello J,

I can see from what you describe just about how you are feeling.
Lets see,
It seems like it never ends. One thing after another, never an odd minute to spare

When you do get a that one in a million moment to breathe, all you can think of is negative things.

Normally well behaved sons all misbehave at the same time.

No response from H when you need it most.

Normally you are a happy, optimistic person, now all seems dark.

You can't seem to get going, normal tasks seem difficult.

You pray and don't get the usual comfort from praying.

When trying to think of something to do to take your mind off it, nothing sounds good to you.

One overriding thought comes back over and over. " How can I ever make this work."

You almost wish you could go to sleep and never wake up.

Most of the time solutions for problems come to you after a little thought, now nothing seems to make sense at all.

Is this any where close?

This is part of the negative discussed earlier. It will be worse for a few months. Come more often, harder to cope with, take longer to leave. I don't entirely understand these feelings and why they are necessary but they are a part of life. You have felt them before and have always been able to cope. I believe you know that you will come out the other side in good shape. But you still must make that slow journey, and it is a difficult and tiring one.

J, there is not easy way. No magic cure. We just have to face each minute, hour, and day. We often wish we could take each others pain, make things right, but we can't. It would probably take away from us many of the very things that make us grow into who we ought to be. So, your growth continues. God is still there, He does not give you the pain, but neither does he take it all away. I believe in you. I believe you will make it.

I don't know what will happen with H and the boys. You don't either. You will have God to guide you here. Whenever you have an idea come "out of the blue" and you have strong feelings to act right away, do it. Don't let it go, do as you feel to do, right away. These will be positive feelings, you will be sure of whatever it is. In time the feelings will fade and if you do not act, you will be unsure as time goes on. Always act on Gods promptings. It is hard when we don't understand the reasons, and what he suggests doesn't make sense to us, but he knows. He always knows. He is training you for other things, teaching you to listen.

Give sons a big hug, tell them you love them. Reassure them that you will take care of them. Explain why you have faith in God, don't let them wonder why you believe. They face an uncertain future, so do you. Tell them your feelings, you fear also. But tell them you have faith and that sustains you. Don't be afraid to gather them at your feet and teach them, talk to them.
The bible will help, but use the feelings that come to you, trust God to help, he will.

Finally the feeling comes to me that I have said enough. LOL. Time to go. Again, I don't know about the 6 weeks and what to tell you. It is one of those diversions. Put all your will, all your mental strength to the task, it will come. Then do whatever comes to you and get on with being happy, and living.

Galations 5:22.
May it be true for you very soon.
SS

Thanks SS.Jante

Thanks SS.Jante

girls tried sending pics again, did it work?

Hi SS.
Well after tonights phone call with h I'm ready to give up. I feel no love anymore just immense sadness that the man I did once love is no more.
He hadn't mentioned my email about the holidays when i saw him yesterday but then we had an issue with eldest son so i had to speak to him today and in amongsyt it he mentioned that OW would look after them in holidays but " you don't want that"
I've never said that and have accepted that while he is with her and its gone on for nearly a year then they would have to meet her. they don't want to and i have therreofre not rushed it. tonight its all my fault they have never met.
I just feel so alone and at the end of my tether. i saw him yesterday but certainly feel no love for him and if he is determined its over then I feel I have to give up. I am contemplating filing so at least i feel in control of the situation.
Jante

J,
You seem very down, this is not normal for you unless you are very good at hiding your feelings. I see that this last post was a few days ago so I wonder how you are now. You have seemed to be on a more even keel lately.

Is there more going on that I don't know about? I can't see one phone call doing this to you.

Remember that all kinds of things will happen to you in the next few months that will be very difficult to cope with. You will get hit from all sides. I wish it were not so, you have seeminly already taken your share of hard knocks.

J, please check with God in all you do, and follow his lead. With the problems, will come more help than you usually get from him. Watch for it. Ask for it, and expect it.

I will try and check back Sunday afternoon (before you retire for the night) I would like to know how you are doing. Sunday is a busy day for me but I want to see how you are, will try and catch you.

Are there other things happening that you did not mention that have added to your stress?

Are you feeling like God has left you also?

Are you wondering what he wants you to do?

Just wondering about you aloud (with my fingers on the keyboard.)

Hope you know I care.

SS

Hi SS and thankyou for getting back to me. I hope your camp went really well, I'm sure the young people enjoyed themselves. Back in my student days i did a number of Bible camps for young people and once spent a month under canvas- fortunately it was a lovely summer- unusual for UK> I even got to watch Charles and Fiana's wedding while sat in a field!
yes i am feeling a little better.After posting on here the other evening I rang my best friend and asked her to come round and be a shoulder!!
She helped me to calm down- I was upset. the phone call was a very long one and basically followed on from discussion the other week and the visit to sons school day before. The upshot of the phone call was to put blame for children not meeting the OW on me even though I have never said they can't its them who don't want to. Also he objected to my communicating with him about the holidays via email and so chose to ignore it. I pointed out that the email was a follow on to the conversation three weeks ago and that he hadn't referred to it again or made any suggestions how he was going to see more of the boys. Hes gone ahead with his sailing this w/e with OW despite my pointing out how it looked to boys. I also emphasised that I was concerned for how he was alienating the boys but he doesn't accept the.
He said that he couldn't take any other time off during boys break but OW had offered to look after them but "You don't want that"
I have never said that she couldn't but the younger boys still say they don't want to meet her. that said i have pointed out that they will have to some time if he is determined that he and OW are together for life.
last night while in bed i did start to think about writing directly to OW, thanking her for offering and taking her up on offer.
I came off phone so low because i was made to feel that the situation with boys is all my fault and H refuses to see the part he has played. He has also twisted previous conversations and concerns. Added to that I pointed out that he never raised any of these issues and it was always left to me which makes me feel guilty.
Have held off doing anything about D as I know that I still don't want to be the one that files.

Are there other things happening that you did not mention that have added to your stress?

Are you feeling like God has left you also?

Are you wondering what he wants you to do?

I have been feeling unsettled in my work situation, not happy . One problem I have with regard to work is that although i am a trained teacher and love actual teaching I hate the constant battle over discipline, particularly when I am fighting for it at home on my own all the time. At the emnd of the day God made me to be a helpmeet andf a mother and thats where I want to be fulfilled but at the moment am unable to be so.
I don't know whats best as far as work is concerned and the present contract though lasting until march 2003- is very boring and unfulfilling most of the time.

As far as my relationship with God is concerned- i'm aware its not what it could be and part of that is down to not being at home in the church i go to depite having been there for 12 months. the boys are increasingly not wanting to go and yet I moved to that church for their sake. I have begun to question whether I should be moving back to Scotland- though not necessarily my old home as its possible we have a buyer. I would want to live nearerto the church there and our old home was 30 miles away( part of the problem with Leven)
the friend who I called on for help on thursday is someone who hs known me for 12 years and has walked with me through the move to scotland and back and asked some very telling questions about what God had said when i moved there first and why I moved back. She feels that my work in Scotland is not finished and that i should go back.
However though part of me feels its the right thing to do the obstacles seem too large and the timing for boys schooling so tight that I am too tired to contemplate it. That said i have looked at houses and jobs up there!
So I'm not sure where god is in all this or what he is saying and that is also unsettling me.
Any comments will be gratefully received- God seems to use you to bring His thoughts to me.
Jante

Am working on a reply, will probably be about an hour from this post.

One thing I worry about is if you get enough sleep. Many times you seem to go to bed late and get up very early. Please try to get some rest, it will help with all the other problems.

SS

Hi SS I usually go to be around 11pm UK time and rise about 7am. I tend to check my email and board at these times as I have free internet access after 6pm until 8am. My children often use the computer up until 9.30pm. My sleep pattern is much better now than it was for 2 years before H's A and for first 12 months after. Turned out i exhibited classic symptom of depression but despite 2 visits to Gp didn't get diagnosed until after h had left. Contributing i am sure to our problems. Since taking medication am much better. rarely wake at3am and lay awake for hours like |I used. Thanks for caring. jante

Hello Jante,
The camp went well. There were about 200 girls with about 35 women adult leaders and about 10 men who helped teach. I think God can touch the lives of the girls when they are away from normal surroundings and they do a little study and prayer. It seems easier to get them to listen when you sit them down at a campfire and tell them stories. This was my 5th year helping at this camp.

I am glad you have a friend that helped you, we all need help at times. I believe the bible records that at one point, angles came to Christ to strengthen him. He needed help, just as we all do.

I am sorry about the blame he gave you in the telephone call. For him to admit fault would mean he admitted he was wrong in almost everything he is doing. Sounds like he can't bring himself to do that yet.

I know it's hard not to be drawn in to these conversations. I suspect it has usually been this way for over a year? I also wonder if the discussion you had with him made him think, and he was not comfortable with his thoughts, and is in denial. At this point, I don't think you can do anything about this side of him. I think Dr. Harley calls this FOG. Sounds like H is good at it. I think you may be to kind and too honest to deal with it. That - and you were never trained as a solicitor.

As far as this part-
" last night while in bed i did start to think about writing directly to OW, thanking her for offering and taking her up on offer."

Do what you have to do to make it work for you. It could turn out for good or bad, go with your feelings. God never makes mistakes, he will help you.

" I came off phone so low because i was made to feel that the situation with boys is all my fault and H refuses to see the part he has played."

It looks to me like this whole thing is because of his unfaithfulness from the beginning. I can't see where any of it is your fault. I mean, he leaves his wife and family for OW and it's somehow your fault? I think it was Orchid that said that sometimes she would actually laugh out loud at some of things her WH said. This kind of fits, doesn't it?

" He has also twisted previous conversations and concerns. Added to that I pointed out that he never raised any of these issues and it was always left to me which makes me feel guilty."

More of the same, I can see why you are angry.
Now, many would have left by now. You have been very faithful. Even the bible gives us permission to divorce for adultery - if I understand it correctly. If I was to use logic, I would tell you to plan B and then D if that didn't work in a time. Over the years I have tried to listen to and understand the feelings I get from God. I have tried to act on them in my own life. 20 years ago I was fasting and praying to know if I should change my line of work. W and I were in distress and I couldn't make up my mind. In the middle of it, I broke my leg and it took 3 operations, 9 months for me to be able to go back to work. I got an offer to work for the business I now own. We took the job for half of the pay of my other job, it didn't make sense. But now, 20 years later it does. We were so poor the first few years. My W would say " why are we doing this." Well, we had prayed, and felt it was our answer, so we did it. At times I would say the same thing, she would answer, " remember, we prayed, and this is our answer." So we stuck with it, and it has been the right thing. This was a job change into something different than I had been trained for. We did not expect it when the job offer came, but God said yes, so we did it.

Who would have thought that Joshua and a few Israelites could defeat an army of thousands with just a few men, some pitchers, trumpets, and torches. Who would have thought that the Israelites could travel through the red sea and live to tell about it. That same God that did those things, that helped me, will help you. We just need to find out what he wants, and do that.

I admit, sometimes it is hard to know what he wants. I wonder if he had to break my leg to get me to change jobs, I wonder if I was so hard headed that he couldn't just whisper it in my mind and have me listen. I have tried since then to listen a little better to what he suggests.

Remember that Christ said he came to do the will of his Father. He was not here to figure out what he wanted for himself, he came to do his fathers will. So it is with us, we are permitted to have fun along the way, we laugh, we love our children, and get much joy from our lives. But, we are here to do our fathers will. Now, I have found that all he wants is for me to be happy. He really does. He does not seek to tease me, or lead me in the wrong way. If I am able to listen to, and follow him, I will be happier than if I find my own way. He never tries to mislead us, or hurt us. The two great commandments are to Love God first, and second, our neighbors as ourselves.

So, here I am trying to give my neighbor advice and help. Here you are wondering what to do. Can I give you some thoughts and then re-cap my feelings about your situation?

1. Our Father knows what we need to make us happy, and will let us know if we ask him. It may be hard for us to do what he wants. We may not understand it at the time it is given. ( Imagine Joshua's men - " you want us to go down with a few pitchers and some torches and trumpets and do what? ??? )

2. We are supposed to love our neighbor and pray for those that use us and hate us. We are supposed to give them more than we are required to give. ( go the extra mile) Serve even when we really don't HAVE to serve.

3. We need to forgive 7x70, or, we should keep forgiving always. Remember the golden rule, how would you want H to treat you if things were reversed and you were the one that had lost your mind and about everything else you had for no good reason?

4. If you do these things, how can the Lord withhold his blessings from you? Job lost everything, but continued faithful. He was restored to more than he had in the beginning. Does this same God not exist any longer? Have you sinned so great that he cannot bless you as he did Job? Does he love you any less than Job? Did he not restore your love for H just a short time ago when you thought it was gone?

5. I believe you have had feelings from God about things you were supposed to do, and when you did them, you have had good feelings come to you so that you knew that you did the right thing. Is this not so?

6. You have had feelings come to you about things to do that you have not done yet, because you can't understand how they can work. Is this not so?

Now, I have been feeling these things -

I have felt that in the end, things will work out between H and you. That you will someday reconcile. I am not talking about 40 years from now. I mean the near future. I have no reason for these feelings. Logic does not bear them out. All signs point to D. It is hard for me to even say this. You could very easily say that I am crazy and don't know what I am talking about. I ask my self " am I just giving her false hope." But these feelings are there, and I have learned to say them when I feel them.

I feel you should live as Christ taught - Love and help H even though he shows no signs of ever coming back. Don't be angry back to him. I realize this is hard, is against human nature, and others are probably telling you its about time to dump him. I feel like saying that too, but I can't. I just can't.

I feel you should continue to try. I don't know why I feel this, it doesn't make any sense.

I think you are going to have many more troubles the next few months, like Job did. I am very sorry I have these thoughts. It seems to me that you have had more than your share of trouble already. I believe they will come from every side. Seems like you have already had some of them start.

I believe you will get more help than normal to cope with the trouble. I believe it will strengthen your faith and help you to understand how God is helping you, how he speaks to you, and will help you to listen better to him when he prompts you.

I feel these troubles ( from the beginning with H) are to prepare you for part of your future - being able to listen to God when he speaks to you, and respond to him no matter what the rest of the world thinks or says.

" I have been feeling unsettled in my work situation, not happy . One problem I have with regard to work is that although i am a trained teacher and love actual teaching I hate the constant battle over discipline, particularly when I am fighting for it at home on my own all the time. At the end of the day God made me to be a helpmeet and a mother and that's where I want to be fulfilled but at the moment am unable to be so."

I believe you will be able to do all that you are wanting to do. Be happy at work, fulfilled in motherhood, and a helpmeet to a loving spouse. I think sooner than some would believe you could. It will seem long to you, hardship always does.

" However though part of me feels its the right thing to do the obstacles seem too large and the timing for boys schooling so tight that I am too tired to contemplate it. That said i have looked at houses and jobs up there! So I'm not sure where god is in all this or what he is saying and that is also unsettling me."

Again, the question is never "is it too hard," the question is " what does the Lord want me to do." If he wants it, and you are willing to do your part, it will happen. See Genesis 18 - the story about Sara having a child, especially verse 14.

" Any comments will be gratefully received- God seems to use you to bring His thoughts to me"

Have faith in God. Have faith in what he teaches you. I am having a hard time with this part myself. I feel very humbled - and it is hard to give this kind of advice. I keep asking " what if I am wrong, she'll hate me forever." But, these feelings come back to me, so I pass them on. I never intended to do this kind of thing when I started posting on MB. I just thought a kind word here and there would be helpful to others, and perhaps a little logical advice based on HNHN and other Harley books that have helped me. I find myself pleading with God to help your family be re-united. I shed tears for you. I never thought I would worry about someone else's marriage so much as I am doing for some on this site.

I feel it time to stop. Here is one last one, usually quoted for those that do wrong. But it means to me that God will always reward good, cannot keep from it, if we do good for others. Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap

If you are faithful, and live Gods laws, he will bless you. My advise is to trust him to keep his promises. He always does, always. Don't let the trials get to you, they will pass, the blessings are permanent.

SS

Seems like I always take longer to write than I believe I will. I am sorry.

Did A ever get daughters e-mail? Did pics come?
They asked so I pass it on ?

Again I say, don't feel the need to reply when you are rushed for time. You are very polite but these posts are supposed to help you, don't take important time when you don't have it, you can always come back later.

<small>[ July 15, 2002, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS and thanks for your time and thoughts. Haven't much time to post now but just wanted to say thanks. I've written a thankyou card to OW accepting her offer to help H with children over the summer and have posted it. I will mention in passing tonight that I have done so and will also ask him for his thoughts on best dates for them to have the children. then I have the task of preparing the children. I have prayed about it and feel quite at peace now the card is sent. hope it stays that way !! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Jante
ps son hasn't been on internet for a few days we are having a rare week of beautiful weather but I'll remind him again to check his email.

Hi J,
Well, I always wonder what you are going to say when I post something like yesterday. I am still not very comfortable with it. I have done a lot of praying about your family in the last 24 hours. I think I will change my tack a little.

I tried to examine the situation with boys going to stay with H. There are things to be said for both letting them go, not letting them go. I think it is best to let them go. I don't think it supports H or OW to do it. If H was to go ahead with D, it would becmome a normal thing. So, give him a trial run at it. Sons will do many things in their lives that they don't like. They will just have to get used to it, it won't hurt them either. ( this last from much experiance.)

The other side is you can use a rest. Much earlier I said that the good of the family comes before the good of any one member but in your case they are the same. You hold the family together right now. You and God are it, so to speak. I don't know everything about you but I would recommend you plan your time off carefully. Plan some time to rest and relax, you need to be in top form. Don't let all your time be taken up with demands by other things, no matter how good the cause. Plan time to rest, sleep longer. Plan time to think, meditiate, pray. Sometimes just sit, do nothing, things will come to you.

Next, have faith. We tend to always have faith in God but we say " God can do anything he wants, but perhaps he doesn't want to do this." Have faith he wants to help you. Have faith he will guide you, why would he restore your love for H and then let things come apart? He has a plan for you, do not doubt that.

Last, you are human, normal, you have bad days. Don't let these bad days cause you to doubt yourself. You are above average in your faith in God. ( you don't take compliments well, so I am not sure what you will do with this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )
You should expect above average results. Don't let the mistakes you have made cause you to think that you won't get help. Your heart is right, he will help.

My scripture for today is this:
Jante will be OK.
( change last two letters)
I believe if your heart is right as I have said, God will confirm this last to you - as I believe you need to know it.

SS

Well SS thanks yet again for all your help, support and complimants! Yes, I do tend to blush and brush off compliments partly in this case because I believe I have no choice in what i do it seems to be the only way to act.
Update on situation. H has just left. I briefly mentioned that I had sent OW a thnkyou card and accepted her offer. H and i then discussed the practicalities, in particular how she could meet the children before actually having them to stay.
We have agreed that I will take them down to the city half way between here and where H will be working on the Tuesday next week and they will meet us there. I can then meet her which i think will help the children. I will then go to my sister who lives in that city and the children will go with h and B ( find OW too disresepectful in circumstance so will refer to her as B from now on) to have a burger and the cinema. I will then collect them and bring them home. This was my choice as h was willing to bring B up here to meet children but I felt that would be harder for all concerned.
The children will then go to Scotland with their father for a week as arranged and return to London with him for a further 10 days. that will give me 2 and half weeks to myself. I will have to work some of them but am now planning to take a long weekend and go to scotland myself. I still feel that God is speaking to me about returning so want to take the opportunity to visit the church there and listen to God. I plan to stay with Christian friends but will also take time to myself. the rest of the time I will do normal work hours but will have most evenings to myself. I think it would also be good for me at that time not to post here but to really spend time on my own.
I will see the children during one of the weekends and possibly on an evening in the week- if it can be arranged.
I feel toally at peace about this. H seemed pretty moved by my attitude. I made it clear that i held nothing against B and that i would be pleasant to her - hence my thankyou card to her. I have also told him that obviously I am not 'happy' at the situation neither will i do anything to make problems.
Would appreciate your comments. I do believe that this may speak to h in a new way!!
Jante

Hi J,
I believe you have a sound plan. Looks like God agrees with it ( you feel at peace with it.)

Not posting is probably a good idea. I suspect you will be able to think better without distractions. We'll be here if you need us.

You don't seem as angry now as you did last week. What is going on inside? Are your emotions being held in tight reign? Or are you really OK all around? If you really are at peace, explain why?

H seemed pretty moved by my attitude. I made it clear that i held nothing against B and that i would be pleasant to her - hence my thankyou card to her. I have also told him that obviously I am not 'happy' at the situation neither will i do anything to make problems. Would appreciate your comments. I do believe that this may speak to h in a new way!!

Well, we are supposed to love our enemies, so If we do it the way God asks, we should expect Gods results. I think you are spot on. I don't know how so many can ask for help from God, treat others badly, and then wonder where the help is. As to what is going on inside H's head, I don't understand that most of the time. I think he is amazed that you are doing so well. I believe he thought you would become angry or very emotional at these goings on. It is probably similar to a 180 for him to see you so calm now. His going to Scotland will give him time to think - about boys, but also about you. Lets let God work on him some, shall we? You should also be ready for what you will do if OW ( Sorry, B just doesn't do it for me) trys to back out of the deal.

I sugggest you encourage him to take them to Church while he has got them. TAKE, not send. Tell him it will help D to go better when he comes home if H takes him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You haven't commented on H's visits in the last few weeks. We don't know if he hugs you still, if you even see him much , if you still collect him from the train. Any good or bad signs there?

Might be a good time to start sending him notes? Don't know how you still feel about that.

Tell me when you are starting time off the boards here, so I won't worry about you.

SS

<small>[ July 16, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS, Well its the next morning here in UK and I still feel at peace about my decision.
"You don't seem as angry now as you did last week. What is going on inside? Are your emotions being held in tight reign? Or are you really OK all around? If you really are at peace, explain why? "
I think the reason I was so angry lsat week was that H seemed to deliberately misunderstand my poiint of view and put the childrens reactions down to ME! He apologised for misunderstanding me last night- I suppose what he was really doing was xpecting me to act in the way most would in the circumstance and then read what ever I said in light of that. My calm way of discussing it last night made things clearer for him! I don't feel angry anymore with him or situation kjust immensely sad for the situation we find ourselves in . I am still praying hard for the FOG to lift from him and hope that over the next few months having the children and perhpas seeing the contrast between me and B in more detail will bring him clarity of vision. I think as well that what I am doing is accordance with what God wants and so have the peace that passes all understanding. that said I'm no saint and spent quite a bit of last night wondering what would be the outcome of meeting her next Tuesday- but thats my natural self taking over!!! :

"( You haven't commented on H's visits in the last few weeks. We don't know if he hugs you still, if you even see him much , if you still collect him from the train. Any good or bad signs there?"
Haven't had to collect him from the train for last few weeks as hes come by car, no hugs or physical contact in any way. Last night we had eaten before he arrived and I served him and went through to next room, however he was calling through with questions/comments so i went back and sat at the table with him and chatted. He still wants me there as his friend just not lover.
Oh well off now to see A get certificates etc as he finishes his junior school this week and moves uptoi the 'big' chool in aseptember. Bye
Jante

Am off soon to see my son receive certificates as he finishes his primary school this week- and goes up to the 'big' school in september.
jante

Greetings and salutations, and a most hearty good morning to you today,

I am glad you are at peace with some things - Sorry for your sadness, but it cannot be otherwise until things are resolved.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think as well that what I am doing is accordance with what God wants and so have the peace that passes all understanding. that said I'm no saint and spent quite a bit of last night wondering what would be the outcome of meeting her next Tuesday- but that's my natural self taking over!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How could you not worry. J, you are doing far better than most could do or would do. Please continue to react as God wishes you to do.

Can I discuss Heaven for a bit?
I'll take that as a yes.

I believe we lived with God as spirits before we came here. In the book of Jermiah the Lord says that he knew Jermiah before he was born, and ordained him a prophet to the nations. In Revelations Chapter 12 it discussed how the dragon was cast out with 1/3 of the stars of heaven. That is the devil and those of his that are not born, but live as spirits trying to bring the rest of us down. I believe the other 2/3 are those of us that are born to earth. The poet Wordsworth speaks of us as coming from heaven "trailing clouds of glory as we come." Any that have held a new born child in their arms, knows what he was speaking of.

You - we, are not used to such evil as we find on this earth. We are in this world, but not of it, we long for a better place, such as we came from, and we have a chance at regaining. Our challenge is to live for that better world. Treat others now like we will there, even though they don't do the same for us. That is what Jesus Christ did, he lived a heavenly life while on earth. The rest of us fall short, but because of him, we still have a chance.

When you meet B ( man, that's hard to say) imagine how Christ would treat her, try to do what he would do, say things the way he would say them. If bad happens, how could you do any better? He could not change men's hearts in every case, but he reacted the same no matter what the result was. We all have the same challenge. When you see heaven it will be full of those that learned to do this very thing. It will be full of kindness and love such as you are learning to give.

I am no saint either, I know the theory, the application is difficult. It football theory, every kick near the goal scores, and every goalie is perfect and never allows a goal. In real life some kicks are blocked, some goalies fail to block., so that's what we live with. Don't worry so much when you fail, when you get angry or sad, or depressed, or when you don't accomplish every goal. The sacrifice of Christ takes care of our failures when we come to him and ask for help.

That brings us to the point of this story.

We don't have it in us to be perfect like he was. We will fail at times. You should go to him at all times in all that you do and ask for help. When you have done all that you can, and it's still not enough, he will perform the miracle for you. That is faith, believing that he will. In every case, if you will do all that you can possibly do, not give up, but go to him - you will get the help you need. In every case., no exceptions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am still praying hard for the FOG to lift from him and hope that over the next few months having the children and perhaps seeing the contrast between me and B in more detail will bring him clarity of vision. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope it does, am praying for it myself. I will have more coments about meeting her later this week.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He still wants me there as his friend just not lover. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We feel for you, we weep for you sometimes. You have a lot of friends that care. I have to take it as a good sign that he wants you as a friend. Don't be afraid to ask for hugs. It will do you good.

I hope C is doing better. Never did hear what happened after you dragged him home from the football game. I hope all the boys are well. Any more problems with D?

J, I hope I don't offend you. I don't really think I tell you things that are new to you. I just try and remind you of them to strengthen your resolve. God does care about YOU PERSONALLY, that is one of the messages I am here to send to you. He cares about your boys, and your WH. See if you can get a little more sleep tonight, it will do you good.

BTW, where did you get those spotted socks? I have had requests. Everyone wants to know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

<small>[ July 17, 2002, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>