Hi SS

"When you meet B ( man, that's hard to say) imagine how Christ would treat her, try to do what he would do, say things the way he would say them. If bad happens, how could you do any better? He could not change men's hearts in every case, but he reacted the same no matter what the result was. We all have the same challenge. When you see heaven it will be full of those that learned to do this very thing. It will be full of kindness and love such as you are learning to give."
That has always been my intention- I can't imagine doing anything else, and that was what I was trying to say to H yesterday with out using the actual words.
"I hope C is doing better. Never did hear what happened after you dragged him home from the football game. I hope all the boys are well. Any more problems with D? "
C is fine again, he was upset on the evening in question but this week when we got to football the coach offered to bring him home each week to make it easier for me. I accepted as it means I'm in the house for the other boys then, especially as the finishing time can be a moveable feast!
A has just received 4 certificates from school- one for consistant achievement through the year, one for cycling training, one for football tournament and the one that means most to me- Care and consideration for others.
D has generally been ok recently. Still some battles over his time on computer but nothing abnormal for parent teen rrelationship. I expect a lot of moans after sunday when we tell them the plans for the ummer but its the pricew I'm willing to pay for them to spend more time with their dad.
Will be a while before they are away and I stop posting- if I do!
But think I'll start a new thread as I seemtto be at the start of a new season in the relationship. Jante

Glad to hear about A. That is something. It does mean more to us if they behave than if they excel in sports. At least it should. In the eternal sense, it means much more.

I sometimes interview my children to see how they are doing, in school, church, etc. I recall once a son complained about the time we spent studing scriptures. He said, " I can see studing in my profession, it will determind my standard of living for the rest of my life." My reply was that the other would determind his standard of living for eternity, a much longer time frame. He seemed to get it.

A seems to get it also, that is good. Keep it up. For all the bad, heartache, and the like, there is good going on for you. I am glad.

SS

I'll hold off posting on your other thread for a while. See what you can pick up from others.

SS

thanks i appreciayte the thought
Jante

Hi J,
Perhaps I jinxed you. I may had better stay off the new one.

I have some thoughts about meeting B.
I think you already have thought about it much more than I have. I know you have a firm resolve to be kind. Here is a side you may not have thought of.

Often when we meet, we exchange pleasantries.
" How are you today?"
" fine, thank you."

This one is very common here. But sometimes not true. I just want to have you think about what you say. Don't say the standard greeting if it is not true. Don't say you are fine, if you are not.
One of my answers for the "how are you" if I am not doing really well is " reasonably well today, thank you."

So, you want to give the effect of being in control, happy, upbeat, but don't say things you don't mean. I kind of picture you as the Queen, meeting a foreign dignitary with whom she disagrees. She is polite, kind, but is careful not to say anything that can be construed as agreement when there is none.

Which sister is this that you plan to visit? I believe you have two of them. I hope things are well at sisters home. Since I began coming to MB, I have had occasion to give some of my family members information about MB for them to use. It is pretty interesting how it can take any marriage and improve it if they are willing to do the work.

I will be interested in seeing what the boys say when you tell them. Many times I have said " I would be glad to discuss the reasons for this with you, but I remind you, this family is not a democracy and we are going to do it this way no matter what we discuss." I don't want them to get their hopes up that things may change.

We never do our best when we are tired. Get much sleep between now and your meeting. Look nice but conservative. ( these are just my thoughts, I don't claim to have any great inspiration here today.)

I don't have a suitable witty remark to close with so I'll just go.
SS

<small>[ July 19, 2002, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS I hope you get to read this. thanks for your post. If you have chance to read my other post about the children you will see what their reaction was!!
Have now spoken to H and we are going ahead with the children meeting the OW at bowling and a pizza. their reaction was intenser and I did get upset ( with H) over it but today has been better and I came to realise that they often moan about doing things with their dad ahead of time to me, but when it comes to it actually enjoy themselves.
If it really looks bad for them to stay with H and OW later I have made arrangement s with work to take extra time off. Would still prefer not to take more than a couple of days and go way myself for a break and prayer time but will see what seems best after tomorrow.
Jante

Hello, J

I can see you are getting some conflicting advice about the boys going to stay with H. I recall (and I looked back on earlier posts and I was right) you saying that you were at peace with letting them go. I believe you were right. I will say again that I believe you will have lots of problems and turmoil in the next few months. Stay with what you and God decide. It is hard to know just what is right in every case, and often other arguments sound very good. But stay with what you and God decide. He helps us know, then leaves us sometimes to carry it out. Sometimes we falter. If you got the answer from him, do what you felt to do. I remind you that he doesn't make mistakes. If he makes you feel at peace with something, then it can be done, should be done.

If you have chance to read my other post about the children you will see what their reaction was!
I can see D was angry with going. If you recall their past lives, they often don't want to do what we as parents recommend. We have to teach them to eat solid food, they spit it out. We often need to coax them to play sports, they find they like it. School is hard for them, but they really need to learn. I suspect you can cope with this part, but this is exactly why you need some time for your self. I really believe you do, and that the good of the family demands it. I give this as my opinion, I see many others have one also. As has been said before, many reasons can be given for and against.

I recall the Savior took a time in the wilderness, and strengthened himself for his ministry. Time to yourself could be very good for you right now. I think this a sound concept, scripture bears it out. I believe H needs to see you firm in what you do. As I have said before, you think things out carefully and pray about them. I believe you should stay with what you carefully considered.

I can't see today exactly how you are feeling, that usually means turmoil. I hope you sort things out and do well, I have every reason to believe you will be fine. I don't mean to minimize your pain, I know it is there. No one should have to stand what you have stood this past few years, but we take what we get in this life, and somehow we just have to make it work, that is the refiners fire, and you are in the middle of it.

As I prayed for you and your family this last night, I felt I need to reduce the frequency and length of my posting to you for a while. I don't quite understand why. Often we do not know why God takes us a certain way, but it is always well to do as he guides. I will still check in with you quite often. Perhaps it makes more sense to you than me.

I really believe you need some time to think, and rest and recharge. You have no other real chance to do it. Spend some time with God, he loves you, he'll help.

SS

<small>[ July 22, 2002, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thanks SS and I do understand all you are saying. Will post back how tonight goes but don't feel you need to answer. I trust you to answer if God gived you something to say. Jante

Hello J,
At this point, many would wish you luck, but I don't think luck will have anything to do with it. Things could go very well, or they could go badly, we just don't know.

Remember that when Moses met with Pharaoh his first few meetings did not go well. However, In the end, he did what he was sent to do. Please don't be discouraged if tonight is not perfect. I think if I were you, I would perhaps have a little fear or apprehension for tonight but also, having learned to trust in God, I would be trying to have faith that by doing as he directed, the outcome would be as he wants it to be someday.

Find that mustard seed of faith and let him do the rest.

SS

Many things I would like to say, but I just hope you can find rest tonight. That will have to serve for all the rest.

I'll ask you a few questions tomorrow.

SS

thanks as always SS

Hi J,

I believed you would be hurt with contact. I didn't know how bad it would be. So my first question is
How are you ? I believe you are able to function OK. I just hope you are not crying at night and unable to sleep. So again, how bad is it?

2. did you learn anything about yourself from the contact?

3. Did you learn anything else about H from this?

4. Is there anything you would have done different?

I will be out of the office for the next three days, hope to get some air time and at least check in with everyone here at MB. See how it goes.

I know there is no magic fix to make everything better, we have to live each hour, each day. Still, we can get help from God. Hope you find the help you need.

SS

Hi SS and thanks as always for thoughts and support. Have had computer problems but just managed to get them fixed.
As to your questions:
1. Yes I did feel bad on Wednesday though not laud awake crying. Just seeing H and OW in my mind wheneve I closed my eyes. However part way through Wed I suddenly realised that OW will now have the same problem- seeing me with H laughing and chatting so she will also feel under pressure I suspect.
2. Did I learn anything about myself- I am strong enough to keep smiling even in the face of pain- kept smiling with kids and at H and OW despite the pain I was feeling. Also able to have civil conversation whatever I was feeling. Isn't God good to give us his love and faith in these situations?
3.Did I learn anything aboutH? Hes thicker skinned tahn I thought if he can be happy at standing between me and his OW and enjoy himself!! Or perhaps hes just a good actor. I really cannot understand how he could be happy at Tuesday evening situation. He has rung since to check with me how the boys are- a new thing for him so thats good. He also thanked me for aloowing/helping Tuesday evening to happen. I think it surprised him.
4. Would i do anything differently. Tried to be the one who was late for the kids sake I think- waiting around the extra half hour for H to arrive was very difficult for them. For myself I don't think I could have done anything else .

Hello Jante,

I hope you are feeling quite well this Monday.

I am back after being gone through Saturday and I found the forum was closed - until today.
After reading posts o n both threads, It seems your attitude is very good. I hope it is the same today. Sounds to me as though you did do as well as the Queen would have done, and she has had many more years of practice. I find I have much admiration and respect for you. Perhaps "Well Done" would be the right words to use.

I find I agree with you about OW , I hope it does cause her distress, in fact, I hope she leaves him over all this.

Isn't God good to give us his love and faith in these situations? Yes he is, in fact, that is what he does. He is our father, loves us, takes care of us. The catch is, we have to come to him in faith, but when we do, miracles can and do happen. I am happy for this small one in your life and that you were able to get through it.

I wonder how thick skinned he really is. I wonder what is in his mind. I don't have an answer but if he has the ability to repent and change, it has to be bothering him. BTW, hasn't he always been a good actor? Strikes me as such, can't say why.

If you would not have done anything different, you did just right.

I almost don't want to do this, but I feel it is unusual enough to warrant telling. I had a dream of meeting you and H last night. I have very few dreams now a days. In my youth, I had many and was full of the insecurities that sometimes created frightful dreams. But lets move ahead.

I dreamed I had arranged for you to visit a councilor together. I met you at a dock ( I can't explain much of this, it makes no sense to me.) Husband came to me first, for some reason you were delayed. We walked around a low building ( built on pilings out on the docks) and began to introduce ourselves when your sons came and I met them. C and D looked young, like they were a few years ago. A looked older ( as perhaps he may look in a few years, his hair was turning more blond than it is now, less red) and I spoke to him about you and he replied that things were hard for you but he was willing to help any way he could. He said you were doing well for the pressure you were under. He seemed very aware of what was happening, and how it affected you and your other children. His face seemed pained, he seemed wise beyond his years.

H walked back towards me from one direction, you from the other. I heard H say in a low voice " I wonder what ( blank) will think of this." I heard a name but it could not understand it. It did not start with a P.

You seemed happy but reserved, as though you didn't know if any good would come of it. You, H and I began to walk towards a bus and I saw that the counselor was on the bus waiting for you. She was brown haired - perhaps early 30's with blond highlights in her hair. She smiled and I got the feeling that she thought she could really help you both. H began to get on the bus, you thanked me for arranging things and began to get on the bus. Boys and I stayed on the dock . Dream ended.

Perhaps It is just a reflection of the wish I have for you to reconcile, I can't say I understand why I would dream something like this. As I said, I have few dreams these days.

I felt I should relate the dream to you, so I have done so.

I will continue to be away from home on and off through the end of August. Will reply when I am able to do so.

Please continue to exercise your faith in God. I know you don't have faith in what the outcome will be, but I believe you have faith that if you act as he wants you to act, it will be the best it can possibly be under the circumstances you are in. There is no possible way to make things any better than if you follow Gods will for you. I believe you can do this.

Please forgive me if I trouble your mind. I believe you have enough problems and don't need any more. As I have said before, I just say what I feel to say and I hope in the long run that I am more help than hurt.

SS

Thanks for sharing both our thoughts and the dream. A is very sympathetic and sensitive- the most of my three sons so your description is not surprising. the boys are all doing well and while they may not be opely looking forward to their visit to their dad in London, neither are they actively fighting it any more. I'm hoping to spend the time seeking God more for our future. i have set up a meeting with my Pastor and will also be spending a few nights with the elder friend and his wife in Scotland and visiting the church there. I feel fairly ambivelent at the moment about moving but also uncertain about the church I attend here as i have never felt at home
there despite being part of the church for a year.
Will continue to post at intervals and look forward to your replies when you are able.
Jante

Hi SS just posting back in because I've just returned from In laws. I get on very well with them as a daughter and they are both strong christians. Dad has just found out he has cancer. Its hoped it hasn't spread and that it can be treated. I have spoken to h since and he seems to be ok with it. I feel that this may be a way of bringing us back together hard as it is. FIL will not meet OW to H will only have me to really share whats happening with and to share memories with. Also \I will be praying for FIL' health .In the past T would have been too and this must make him think of his own miracle healing some years ago.
Jante

I am sorry for FIL. Live or die, I believe he will be alright.

I have been thinking about what you said sometime ago about sending him a testmony. Perhaps you should think of it again. I thought of it yesterday and again today. Yesterday I dismissed the thoughts as wishful thinking on my part, just hopeing to think of anyway to get him to see what is plain to the rest of us. He needs to have God brought to his mind again, but I struggle to suggest what would be the best way. After what you just said, it really would make sense to send the testmony to him. If he does not come back on his own, I am afraid God will shake him up pretty badly to get his attention. He ( husband) will not like it much if that happens, far better to come without being shaken.

As usuall you show your concern for others but don't say much about yourself. Modesty is a good thing, but we like to keep tabs on you just in case you may need an attitude adjustment. I hope you are doing AT LEAST reasonably well. Please let us know how you feel.

J, I believe God is happy with your efforts, keep on.

SS

It occurs to me that he may be willing to to go with you to visit FIL. It would be hard for him to ask you - with all that is going on.

Perhaps you could ask him " T, I am going to visit FIL, it would be easier ( for me) if you would go with me, will you come?"
Or perhaps HE will even ask you, who knows?

My thinker says you probably already thought of this, Oh well.

<small>[ July 30, 2002, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS and thanks for prompt post.
Testimony- now why didn't I think about that- yes this would seem to be the ideal time to give it to him. I'll put it into a card and give it to him on Saturday when he comes to collect the children. Then he will have the time away without distraction of OW to read it.
One other thought I had last night- my best thoughts seem to come at 3am. The following weekend when I am staying at previous elders house he is bringing the boys over to isit with the children of the house- he has refused to take them in the past because of what hes done- but has said he'll bring them while i'm there. I am going to ask him to at least come in and say hello to set the boys a good example- I know the elder will be very loving but H will find that hard to deal with. however I think its one of those things that builds up in his head to be harder than it need be.
I am doing fine, generally feeling very positive about myself if not my situation. ButI have found myself getting low over my church sitch so will talk to the pastor about it next week.
Re the visit to FIL. We were at In laws tonight to visit as a family which is where I learnt that cancer had definitely been diagnosed. We had been hoping it was just an enlarged prostrate. FIL is nearly 70
and is in good spirit. I will try and visit on my own while children are away and then again later when H is able to go as well.We still visit as a family often because thats what they like and so H has agreed.
I know they will cope what ever the future brings. Jante

Wow, I didn't realize he was visiting In-Laws with you. I thought perhaps he was going alone.

The more I see, the more I am amazed with what you and God have done in keeping things together.

Be thinking and making notes as you go along about differences that would take place with a D. I think you may still need to communicate those to him someday. There are a great many of them. Perhaps easier to note them as you go along than think them up in a single session.

BTW, does your mother know you are awake at 3:00 AM? I used to get spankings for that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

<small>[ July 30, 2002, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS your timings pout it was about 11.30pm and no she doesn't. Jante