Hi SS and thanks for your encopuraging words. I believe God does want me to be where I can best serve Him and where my children will be fully part of the church and that is therefore scotland- i'm on the internet looking for houses andjobs now. Its just the actual doing thats hard work.
As to the weekend- yes H did meet the elders wife and speak briefly. He also visited with a family of friends and the wife made a comment which i gather made him stop and thinkabout his actions on other peoples faith. He certainly didn't show any different response to me- but he has told the children that he is thinking of moving back to Scotland!! Thats after i had already discussed it with some people.
I don't teach RE at the moment due to my leaving the job last Christmas with stress. however when i did teach it was a combination of christianity and world religions and a lot of moral/ethical issues. I did theology at college and an intensive bible study course later with H but always need reminding of what God says in his word. I will continue to pray but I think i have to make the move and put the house on the market- even if later I decide to take it off! Thanks for your prayers and comments they always help to clarify my thinking. jante

Hi Jante and SS,
Thank you both for your nice words and prayers.
I made a move by myself 1600 miles back in 1991, before this H. I was living down south and my Mom and family were here and the south is no place for women alone! I was scared and over worked but it all came out just fine. Poor Lord had swollen ears from my pleading with him! I had a dog kennel then too and sold most of my stock to get the money to come home. I even had enough to rent a small house and get the utilities on. Then Lord gave me my H. I thought much to soon, but it was what he wanted then. I am not sorry for this as we all have work to do for the Lord right? I always think that maybe we are put into someones life to help for awhile and relationships just do not go good for me. Had 4 now that have had A's and I do know what needs I have not given. I get very withdrawn when I do not receive love back in a relationship. It is like I try hard but fail somewhere. I have worked many years as a nurses aide and always gave to many material things to H and love. Now I just can't figure out all of where I went wrong. I am also a very quiet and sometimes shy lady. My husband did say we did not fight! He also admitted in his nasty letter to me that he made mistakes with not showing how much he cared and lack of communication, and just plain not enough affection! Then he went on to one time things said or done by me and ripped me up! Can't believe you can be so nice in the begining of a letter then just be so mean. He did not want me to have dogs, but this is unfair as he married me with them and they are very old ones. So what do you do with them? He would not let me hire anyone to come in when he wanted to go on Vacation's so I guess he had it planned this time and left home before he went this year, but with his girlfriend. He has never taken me anywhere, not out, no party's, no vacations. I work, eat and sleep. He did not go but hunting and fishing. He does not like to go much. Selfish?
This all started a year ago. He was nasty and I thought it was pain as he was off work with a bad neck. He also has all joint problems. Then he would ignore all my needs and this went on for 6 months! I just became confused as I did not know what was happening, but had gut feelings. He would tell me he was fishing when I worked and called home, but no poles gone! Then he left over a small arguement with me trying to find out what he was thinking and why he was acting like he was. Told me none of my business. Gone 4-5 days to an unknown place. Back again and never even apologised or was loving. Left again for 8 days and came back the same. Well in 22 days after the second time coming back I found pay stubs that he hid with hours missing and asked him about them. Well he got real mad as he says it is none of my business, hates nosey people and he did not remember where he went, but probably fishing. Now this fishing story is getting old right? Then he left to the unknown place again and has remained there! PI could not find him either, PI got into cell phone and that is how I got the girlfriend number 24x's on bill and did a reverse phone book for the name and address. He has come here only to aggrevate me. I tried a Good Plan A. Soon - 4 months it went to a B. I am doing better, but have moments where I cry all day and feel so lost. God steps in and gives me a shake and possitive thoughts. I have now started a internet business with the concorde group. It is taking my mind off H and putting it on money to live on. This business will generate more money than I have ever seen. They are talking thousands a month. Maybe you could do this also and it would give your boys all they need in life. I will have my address in another post if you are interested. Start up is confusing, but most of this is automated and takes only a few minutes a week.
I do not think you are ready yet for the move either so sit tight and God will push when you are ready! Smile and know we love you and God does too. I have to keep telling myself that over and over. Life is tough but I believe we are tougher! Good luck this week and I will pray for you and your family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Sincerely
Doreen

Thanks Doreen for your thoughts and for sharing your story.
I have had a fairly sleepless night and have made the decsion to put all thoughts of moving on the back burner. The last time I went ahead with moving despite reservations landed me where I am today with H - so am going to sit back a bit and wait. Thanks
Jante

Doreen,
Remember that you can't change him. The imformation on this site is all about helping and improving yourself ( and hoping he will respond to it.) But you can't change him, so keep working on you. I am so sorry for your pain, will pray for you also.
SS

Hi J,
I feel strongly to tell you today that God loves you. You are not alone in this. Please don't give up hope, don't be depressed. Often I wish you could see all of the energy and help being expended on your behalf.

Doubts, fear, anger, hurt, and pain are normal for what is happening to you. You don't HAVE to be normal. Sometimes I feel like a hypocrite saying some of these things because I have all these emotions too. HOWEVER, you still need to hear it.

J, go on, and when the bad thoughts come, reach our your mind to God and let the good thoughts feel your heart. Act like you want to be, not like you sometimes feel.

I know you are not perfect, and perhaps I should leave you alone and let you go some days, but you were born for better things. God expects great things from you and so do I.

SS

Thanks SS Today is a better day- I have been out in Gods glorious countrysiude walking the dog and have had time to think and pray. I am conscious of 4 other times in my life when decisions about he future had to be made and i felt like i did on wed. In 2 cases i followed my feelings of disquiet and was proved right, on the other 2 occasions i allowed myself to be persuaded against my feelings and the results were disterous. I feel that God wants me to move to Scotland- but not yet. i don't know why but will wait for the green light.
The boys return home tomorrow for 2 days and then are with their dad for 3 days before returning for good. I love them and miss them but have appreciated time to myself.
jante

Hi Jante,
I read your other thread, I think it's time to set boundires. He should not ever bring her to your home. I don't think he should be keeping the boat there if you don't use it.

I am ANGRY, but not as angry as you are hurt. I think it is time to write that letter, what better way to start than with a trigger like that.

You could say that you con't think you can take it any longer and he should start thinking about what would happen if you divorced. You can say that having OW in your home was the last straw.

Oh J, you need to protect yourself. I have always said you need to be kind but I think this was a little far. I think you need to tell him so.

I hope you got some sleep, I hope you are OK.

SS

<small>[ August 17, 2002, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

It would be past noon for you now, I can't help but wonder how you are. I worry about you a great deal when you have to deal with pain like this.

At least you have the boys today, I hope they are behaving for you.

I have asked God to take away your pain and fill your heart with love. I hope you find peace today.

I recommend not being there when H comes to get boys today. I also recommend giving him a note asking him to never bring OW to your home again, and explain the pain it causes you. IT is a LB to be dishonest about things like that. Especially for you.

I am praying for you today, I hope that it helps more than it ever has. I don't do hugs much but If you were here, my whole family would hug you and do all that we could to help. Please let me know how you are doing.

SS

Hi SS and thanks for your prayers. I have been feeling fine today and have had lots of hugs from my younger 2 boys. Not the eldest hes never been a hugging child but he chose to sit next to me in church today rather than his friend which he normally does.
As to the situation with H and OW. I do hear what you say- the boat was being collected to sell to a friend. it was kept here initially so H could take the boys sailing locally, but that never really happened. I was hurt at having OW come here but at the same time wouldn't leave her standing outside for one and a half hours.Also I believe in being hospitable to who ever comes to my home and wanted to set the children a good example of how to treat enemies. I also believe in heaping coals on H's head!!
I have hought about the letter and boundaries and will think it through some more. I have also considered sending OW a letter expressing my own feelings on the whole subject something else to think and pray about.
the boys return with their dad tonight- but I hardly think I can leave them here on their own to await them turning up.!
Will just be dignified and make sure the children know I love them as they leave.
Jante

Hi SS , well H and OW arrved around 7.15 and came into the house together. H had a quick drink OW didn't but took herself off to the bathroom. She seemed perfectly relaxed in MY home. The boys went off with them both happily and at least they will be home with me by Wednesday evening. I feel quite calm about the whole situation and don't expect h will bring her here again- it was a case of them travelling north together and dropping the kids off on the way. However if he gives any sign of doing so i will then have to write and ask him not to.
Interestingly I had asked H to have children for a day in September as I have to speak at a conference in london and my mum will be hospital for surgery and so can't help me. He had originally said he would have them in London for the day, now he is saying he will arrange to work from " home" that day and come up and look after them here to let me go to london without the pressure of travelling in with the children. I wonder if the thrill of having the children with them,has already worn off. Jante

Perhaps I went a little overboard, but I think he really went beyond any kind of proper bounds.

Am glad you are feeling alright. Glad D sat by you in church. I bet he has been missing you.

I was all set to ask you some questions but think it better to wait. I realize why she ended up in your home but it isn't right. Of course, none of this is right so why should I think he would understand any better about this.

It's easy to see what kind of person you are, I have faith in your ability but no one should have to go through this. I am sorry, and extend my concern again. One bright spot may be that you also are learning what kind of person you are and it should be some source of satisfaction to you to see that you can hold up through it all.

Perhaps I should not worry so much about the people here but it seems hard not to do so. In one way, I feel you are my friends, sort of like extended family, and I do worry.

I believe you will continue to have these tests as I have said before. I don't think they will last more than a few months. I don't think the enemy will be able to break you either. Thank you for doing so well, you are a good example to me.

J, all these things you are going through are temporary. I believe you will know all the joy of a great marriage, continue to have fun raising a family, and have many close friends again. I believe your best years are still ahead of you. I recall that after all his tests, Job had things restored to him tenfold. I know that same God still exists that blessed Job. I don't believe he has changed any.

Well, I can imagine you smiling as you explained that you couldn't leave boys alone while waiting for H, (trying to get me to calm down.) Sorry for getting so excited. I was thinking there was a fixed time for pickup but even on an exact scedule ( and it is probably not exact) you would usually need to speak to him.
I admit I was pretty upset, I don't know what to say about that really. My oldest son told me a short time ago that one thing he admired about me was that I was always so level, always react properly and do the right thing. Good thing he didn't see me on this one.

Is the operation on your Mum serious? What are you speaking about in conference? Is it something you do often?

Well I have probably said enough today. Perhaps having the boys did get him to thinking. I hope you get much done the next few days and are ready for the boys to come home. Keep on.

SS

<small>[ August 18, 2002, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Thanks once again SS for your concern.
Have had a good night sleep and ready to face a new day.
My mum is having a hip replacement op. She had a knee replacement last year and now this one, I'm hoping to vivt her as sson as possible afterwards to help- as long as I can arrange H to have children for a w/e. She lives 100 miles from me.
The [censored] is about parenting and i'm speaking at a seminar on the work I have been doing. Although i was a teacher, due to the pressure when H left I changed jobs and since new year I've been working on a govt. funded project researching childrens transition from primary to secondary scholl ( at 11) and then developing a book and website to help parents help their children. I am also setting up a series of parenting classes for parents to off advice and informatin on the teen years. Its been very interesting work but I've never done anything like it before incliuding speaking at a conference so I'm a little bit nervous.
As I said H has now elected to come here and take care of the kids while I go to London. Hope you have a great week.
Jante

Hi J,

My wifes mother just had a knee replacement two weeks ago and we have been helping her. It went extreamly well and she is home now. She had the other knee done three years ago. I would say a hip replacement is considered major surgery but it is probably not considered serious any longer because so many are done. I hope your mother does really well also. I have not heard you say that your mother is visiting you in the past few months, has she had a hard time getting around? How is her health generally? Does she still drive, or perhaps she never did?

I wish you well in your conference. Sounds like a lot of work. ( but then, that's life, isn't it. ) Tell us the address of the web site, so we can go and look at it. It is always interrestig to see what other MB'rs are doing.

I am glad you are feeling well today. I believe you will continue to get extra help along with the extra problems. I think if all of the UK had been full of people like you during WWII Winston Churchill wouldn't have had to give so many pep talk speaches.

Isn't it wonderful the way God teaches us and helps us. I can't help but be thankful today.

SS

<small>[ August 19, 2002, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi SS. My mum had a knee replaced last ovember abd recovered well from it so now they are doing her hip. She never drove and is unable to use public transport at the moment so my sisters and I take it in turns to drive her back and forth from our homes. My youngest sister lives in the same town as my mum and my other sister lives 30 minute drive from me.
The website is www.changing-schools.org.uk and is an adaptation of the booklet i designed for parents.
Am starting a new week with many new thoughts about H OW children and my future. Just not sure where we are all heading but feel something is about to change.
Jante

Hello again,

It's one of those days again. I hope you are ready for it.

Am starting a new week with many new thoughts about H OW children and my future. Just not sure where we are all heading but feel something is about to change.

It feels to me that your posts have been a little different the past few weeks. Almost like you are withdrawing from H again. I remember from a few months ago you said you no longer saw yourself with H, the face was blurred where he was supposed to be. I have said you need to act withdrawn so I suppose I ought to be happy. There is a different feel to it than that.

Lets see, you could :

1. Be out of love with him again.
I usually recommend positive attitudes and if you are tired of hearing it, you would not want to say anything about it. You are long past the point where most would have been finished with him.

2. Have feelings for someone else but not told us.
For sure you would not say anything here - this being MB and all.

3. Be concentrating on your other troubles so hard you are not worrying about M as much.
I doubt anything would take your mind off M to this extent.

4. Be ready to make a major change yourself, like divorcing him.
I would hope you would use some other tools first.

5. Feel that God is about to stir things up and make something happen.
I have been feeling like October.

Perhaps there are more options, most likely is that you have been busy fitting the 2 months worth of things into two weeks.

You would have had time to think these last few weeks, if you wanted to use time for that. It would be natural to wonder if you should just go on. It is hard to go to sleep each night with no one next to you, and wonder what will be . It is even more difficult when there are no children to give love to, and get love from, when evenings are full of things to take your time, but empty of what is most important. You said a great deal in that quote above, but the unsaid told me a great deal more. "Just not sure where we are heading" but you need to know, and you will make a decision and you will do whatever you make up your mind to do.

Please share your thoughts, I know you are shy but perhaps we could help.

SS
PS, I reserve the right to clarify this later.

Hi SS, yes its one of those posts!!
In answer to your comments - there is an element of many of your points in how i am feeling-
1. Out of love- not completely but certainly it seems to be dying with the more time that passes and seeing him with OW certainly didn't help- though I have since consoled myself that if any one had come into the house on Saturday they would not have been able to tell which one of us he was with by his attitude and behaviour.
2. no I don't have feeling for any one else but have made new friends and relaised that my life needn't be lonly for ever if H decides to Dv.
3. Have contemplated taking control of my life by being the one to file but as always can't bring myself to do it. I haven't seen much of H recentrly and its his Birthday next week for which this year i have decided not to buy him a present. That will be a big change and may make him stop and think
4. Have other worries to concentrate on- no my life is fairly smooth and now i have settled NOT to make a decsion about moving am quite content
5. Feel like God is about to make a change- i feel as if H's house of cards is about to fall around his ears finacially. I have always felt taht god would have to use something major to bring H back to himself- like jonah and the storm. H has walked from god before and God has used ill health to draw him back to Himself- many years ago. So i have felt for sometime that either ill health or money p[roblems would happen. H's contract is up for renewal at the end of sept. and if it doesn't happen then they will be in a mess as she isn't working at the moment.
Does this help make things clearer?
Thanbks for your concern- your questions help to clarify my own thoughts. jante

Hi J,

Thank you for your well thought out response. Yes, it clears up things for me. I admit I ask things I don't feel apply - to draw out your response and to have you think of all sides.

I have thought since June that something would happen in October. I have no reason for this that I could put into words. Previous to a few days ago I felt I should not mention it.

You probably have the boys home by now. I hope all goes well. I have thought of some questions for you that have to do with the boys - and that could help us understand how well you are really doing. I can't ask them yet - it would change the way you interact with the boys for a few days. I am out of town until Tuesday Aug 27 so I may forget to ask. Forgive me if my ramblings puzzle you, will try and explain later.

I have been to your web site and it is interresting work you are doing. I know that parents can make a big diffdence in the things their children do, but many won't take the time. It has been interresting to me that what we learn from MB is useful with our children to. We can build their love banks, and avoid love busters and strengthen our relationship with them also.

I hope H won't try and bring OW to your home again. If he does, please tell him never again. I will be interrested to hear how the homecomming goes. Both what H says, and what the boys relate about their few weeks away. I suspect you are interrested as well.

Well, ta, as they say in the UK.
( did I get that right?)

SS

Hi SS, enjoy your time away.
The boys have returned home and so far no problems. H came with them and stayed for some dinner. As he was leaving he thanked me for being so good over the childre. I said I had always set out to be 'good' about the children. Went on to say i would be grateful if he didn't bring OW here again as it put me in an awkward postion . He looked embarrassed and said ok. He then left - there was no unpleasantness on either side.
Tomorrow I start packing to take the boys to Bible camp- we are there until Wed.
The farewell is Ta-ra, ta is thankyou. Jante

Hello Jante,
I got it right either way, thank you for being a good example to the rest of us.

My younger brother lived out side of London for a few years ( I can say the name, but no idea how to spell it) and he would say many things we were not used to hearing when he first came home. I was trying to remember - but it has been more than 20 years since he moved back to the states.

Do you have any idea how hard it will be to have H back home?
Actually I think you do, I think you do. I sometimes wish I had some of your talents.

I hope the bible camp goes well. Our girls camp in July was probably similar except they mix bible study and camping. About 1/3 of it was camp skills, about 2/3 was study. I enjoy both.

I am going to visit a good friend ( we were roommates long ago.) He has MS and gets a little worse each year. I want to visit and walk with him before he is in a wheel chair. It is a 550 mile drive (or so) one way. I hope if I ever get to heaven, I can be his next door neighbor. Actually I was thinking about that the other day and thought I would ask you to build a trap door down from the shed in your back yard ( in Heaven, you will have a MUCH larger home and need a BIG shed to keep the yard things in.) Then perhaps I could come up and live in the shed. Heaven being what it is, you would have to secure permission, and who knows what would happen with that. Ah, well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hope you have some new bible quotes for me when you return, I love to learn. Please have a good journey also.

SS

Hii SS and thanks for making me smile!
Well H has just phoned he has just received a offer for castle levan and has accepted it after talking to me. Its $30000 less than our asking price but about the same more than we paid for it. His solicitor who dealt with our purchase of it has told me I should really get a solicitor of my own to oversee the details on my behalf as now we are separated she can'tact for both of us. I have never gone the legal route on separation as I told H I would trust him to honour his promises to make sure I was alright financially. However he has admitted that he is deeply in debt so I feel I need to prpotect the children and myself. The castle sale will complete on 31st October!!
Feel very strange about it all and know H feels devasted at the loss of his dream.
Jante