My husband moved out 2 weeks ago to live with OW cause he just couldn't stay away from her. I had done good Plan A for 6 months but he says he still couldn't get back feeings for me. I have just pulled back in two weeks only talking to him about daughter when necesary. He came over last week for few hours we talked a little he says he is sooooo confused. He thinks about coming home everyday. I tell him she has to be completely out of picture and he has to comitt to marriage 100%.
I am strong, no tears just tell him I love him.<p>Well last night we went to school function with daughter which I was dreading. Pretending to be happy couple meanwhile he is living with someone. Well I blocked it out and had a great time. It is easier of course when noone knows anything.<p>He stayed afterwords to talk and I said nothing just listened. He says he thinks about our family constantly missing us all the time. He says he misses all the things we do together and he misses his best friend-ME! He is so torn about not seeing our daughter everyday and wants to do want is best for our family. I tell him I only want him back if he is 100% willing to work on Marriage and cut her out completely. I deserve better and will not settle for less. He says if he comes back it is only beause he wants to be 100% sure and give our Marriage 100% too.<p>He says he appreciates me leaving the door open for him and for listening to him. Oh and he tells me I am right. Living with someone is not all that easy. I am encouraged by all this but I do not want to get my hopes up yet. Any body have any thoughts? I will keep trying to look happy, not be emotional, not call him, not question him and review 180 list before he comes over again on Saturday to see daughter.<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: keeping faith ]</p>

Keeping Faith,
GOod job and good boundaries. You are showing a strong foundation for your family and sticking to you own integrity of what you will and will not accept. Stick to it, it sounds like his fantasy life has finally hit reality head on. Let him own what is his, and you continue to stay strong for yourself. Your self control is admirable. I hope things continue to improve for you.

KF - I believe if you tread softly, you have an excellent chance for a chance at reconciliation. But, please be careful with your "steadfastness."<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by keeping faith:
<strong>I tell him she has to be completely out of picture and he has to comitt to marriage 100%.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Of course, we can't tell how you actually delivered this statement to him. My point is that you should be careful with what you demand. <p>If this was delivered in a calm, loving way, OK. If it was delivered in a demanding way, not OK. Setting this type of condition is usually not advised until Plan B. <p>In fact, what would you do if he wanted to move home today, without agreeing to your "demand"? I for one, would advise you to let him - unless you had already entered Plan B. So, in a way, you've already painted yourself in a corner. You've set your condition which will either give him another excuse to stay away longer, or provide him with incentive to lie more if you allow him to come home, but when he's really sitting on the fence between you and her.<p>Understand?<p>Also, take a lesson from the real fog. How does it clear up? In splotches, right? Expect the same with the mental variety.<p>[ May 02, 2002: Message edited by: worthatry ]</p>

I don't think I said it in a demanding way. Just telling him what I expect should he move back home. I feel right now I would rather him stay with her than move back if he is still unsure.
I thought I was just setting my boundries and wanted to make it clear to him. I don't want him back if he doesn't want to stop contact. Living like that for 6 months was pure hell. I have not said anything in anger or LB since he moved out.<p>I am tring to get stronger and with the help of MBer's and my meds it is working. Ultimately it is is decision to want Marriage and not see her. I just wanted to let him know where I stand. I'm still not sure what I did wrong??

kf - I'm not necessarily saying you did anything wrong. I was just advising to be careful with setting conditions in Plan A.<p>But let me now ask you a new question: Why aren't you in Plan B? Granted, with the things he's said recently, now may not be the time to go there, but if you're separated and near the end of your rope, please consider going to Plan B if the recent trend doesn't continue. THAT'S when you clearly and in no uncertain terms set your conditions for further contact with YOU. THAT'S when you establish that he made the decision to separate, but you're making the decision to STAY separated.<p>WAT

Interesting dilemma. KF, I think you're doing well.
WAT said:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> In fact, what would you do if he wanted to move home today, without agreeing to your "demand"? I for one, would advise you to let him - unless you had already entered Plan B. So, in a way, you've already painted yourself in a corner. You've set your condition which will either give him another excuse to stay away longer, or provide him with incentive to lie more if you allow him to come home, but when he's really sitting on the fence between you and her.<p> <hr></blockquote><p>It seems to me that you are already in a semi-Plan B, with him out and contact limited. Why WAT advises you to "let him back" if he wants to come back, I'm not sure. (WAT, would you elaborate?) It seems to me that it might be very effective to stand your ground on requiring 100% commitment & 100 No Contact before you let him back...that way he'll have to make a more definitive decision, and perhaps endure the "reality" of living with OW a bit longer which will probably help him decide for you.
Just to be clear; WAT is far more experienced in this than I, and I am really just curious about his assessment, because to me it seems like you've got yourself in a good position.

Worthatry-I am not currently in Plan B because I didn't think I was ready for it and could stick to it. When he left we had not discussed finances, visitation, family etc. so I didn't see how I could go to Plan B right away. Believe me there were many times these past few weeks I felt like it but I knew I couldn't stick to it. I also felt it was not a good idea for my daughter either since she only knows we are separated so daddy can work out some problems. She is 12 and wants him home so bad. If things stay the way they are and he doesn't come home soon I may have no other choice but to do Plan B for my own sanity. I thought you only were supposed to go to Plan B if you were absolutely sure? Thank you all for your support and advice. I am so confused and scared.

KeepingFaith,
Have you read Boundaries in Marriage? It is very useful. It sounds like you are setting boundaries, and I don't see why that isn't ok. If you know what you need for the marriage to work and he still seems interested in pursueing? the marriage anyway, although he is still in a fog a little, then why not? If you did not keep your boundaries, wouldn't that be in a sense lying, just to keep the peace and get him back in your home? If he isn't sure where he stands, in his feelings about M and the OW, at least you know where you stand. Knowing your limitations is a good thing. It seems like that corresponds to Plan A, you have worked on you and feel good enough about yourself that you are willing to stick to what is acceptable to you. If he were to come back without your conditions and continue contact with OW, wouldn't that essentially be a setup for LB's from both of you? Why let him back, cook and do laundry if he is not 100% committed, especially if you know you require that committment already? I have read through this post and don't understand the logic behind letting him back with no boundaries. It may be that I don't understand where the other posters are coming from, please elaborate and fill me in. if complete and radical honesty is the goal, then stating your needs in a calm, polite way seems totally acceptable to me. Let me know what you think.

disclaimer: for the record, my Plan A/B did not result in a chance at reconciliation, so all are right in questioning my advice. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Nonetheless,
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Spacecase:
<strong>Why WAT advises you to "let him back" if he wants to come back, I'm not sure. (WAT, would you elaborate?)</strong><hr></blockquote><p>My logic is very simple. Allowing him home is in the direction of reconciliation. If you can avoid LBs, having him home equates to more opportunity to demonstrate Plan A improvements and more opportunity to meet ENs. No more complicated than that.<p>kf - I agree, you should only go to Plan B if you are sure. That said, many Plan B'ers - including myself - say they regret not doing it sooner.<p>I also agree with Spaceman - you've got yourself in a good position - I never heard anything CLOSE to "He says he misses all the things we do together and he misses his best friend-ME!" I was just suggesting that with these statements coming out, that you not do ANYTHING to stifle further communication - one way to do that is to make "demands." I can picture kf expressing her "conditions" in a non-demanding way, so hopefully, she didn't damage her H's willingness to continue to express his feelings.<p>But Spacemen may be correct in that you're already in a semi Plan B. MB purists will argue that there's no such thing - or at least there SHOULDN'T be.<p>Perhaps we're splitting hairs now. I'll just go back to my original suggestion to kf - I believe if you tread softly, you have an excellent chance for a chance at reconciliation. But, please be careful with your "steadfastness."<p>WAT

Keeping Faith,<p>Legalism is elevating the rule over the principal. Dr. Harley has developed "rules" for Plan A and Plan B. Underlying in these rules are basic principals. I do not believe that Plan A or Plan B needs to be 100% strictly followed to be affective. Just keep with the principals outlined. All people are different and situations are different. It sounds like you have some very positive results. Do what you feel is right for your situation, but do not stop researching and asking opinions.<p>Good luck. My take on this is that the A will end eventually, and it sounds like you two will eventually get back together if indeed this is what you want.

Thank you all. I believe I need to set boundries since he has been cakeeating and waffling way to long. This has caused such stress and LB's while he was living here.
It is very hard to be in plan A when he is not living at home but i was not ready for B. So what I decided to do was just be the best me I could be when I saw and spoke to him with absolutely no LB's. I wanted him to see I was strong, I was going to be OK, but not willing to live with any more lies. I also wanted to see if he truly missed me. By not communicating everyday with him, being with him etc. would it matter to him? Just 10 days before he left we had gone on a Cruise and had a wonderful time. I wanted those memories to be what he remembered.
I decided not to call, pursue, cry or any of those things and see what happen. I think he is starting to miss me but I still think he needs to see a little more of reality living with OW. I want to be the one he can talk to and want him to feel safe if he returns home. I figure I can't meet many of his needs while he is living with her anyway but can she meet all his?? I am hoping for her to LB and him to realize he would rather be with me. Does this make any sense?
Oh and he has not asked to come home yet anyway so I don't see that I really have that many choices right now anyway. I am encouraged by all that he said last night including that he loves me and i am a terrfic person. I want to have positive thoughts but I know the road ahead is going to be a tough one. Thank you all.

I think Dreamland said it best:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Do what you feel is right for your situation, but do not stop researching and asking opinions.
<hr></blockquote><p>You're doing well...keep it up!

I'm so sorry you are feeling more confused now. Let me say, I think that's ok. You don't have to make a decision right this minute. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Let this stuff sink in, do some thinking and praying, and read around on some other threads. Read up on Plan A and Plan B. If you'll click on the Notable Posts link in my sig line, you'll see some good info on Plan A and Plan B. You have to do what feels right to YOU. I think you can take all this advice and feel good about the path you choose. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] k?<p>Now, here's my take. You know your H better than we do. I feel most comfortable encouraging you to follow this quote from WAT:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I believe if you tread softly, you have an excellent chance for a chance at reconciliation. But, please be careful with your "steadfastness." <hr></blockquote><p>I began what I thought was recovery with my ex 3 times. THe third time was filled with promises and tears and everything else, that contact was ended, and he would do anything to work on the marriage and make-up for the affair. That lasted 3 days. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] I'm kicking myself for not negotiating more commitment before he allowed back home. <p>So, on one hand, I applaud you for being strong, and setting your boundaries. I'm not sure what your H has been doing for 6 months, but YOU know, and if he has been unable to stick with a promise, perhaps tough love is the way you need to go.<p>On the other hand, I can certainly see what WAT is saying, about letting him come home, even without 100% commitment and compliance. We've seen lots of real recoveries on MB that begin under those circumstances.<p>Have you ever let him "come home" before? If not, perhaps you should let him if he wants to, even without signing his promises in blood [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] . Once he decides it's a revolving door, then your conditions will need to be tougher. <p>My recommendation is to continue what you're doing, Plan A with some 180's for boundaries. It must be working to help clear the fog. Continue listening to him if he wants to talk, and encourage him that you love him, want the marriage, but that you can't make up his mind for him, and your love bank is dwindling - -> and may not keep the door open for long. <p>Hope that helps!! Let us know how your confusion is coming, k?

Well, I see your new post, and I see that you are feeling less confused. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] good.<p>I'm not sure where I got the "coming home" thing either... I guess we're helping you think through what we're assuming will come out of his mouth if the fog continues to clear a bit.<p>Yes, I agree that you should feel encouraged, but be prepared for the fog to roll back out, k? He could be a bear the next time you talk to him. Keep the same strength and calmness if that happens.

Thank you faith. Yes he left once right after d-day for 3 days. Made all the promises if I let him come home. He contnued to lie and see her. I had just found MB and tried really hard at Plan A. I knew he continued to talk to her but did not realize affair was in full swing until 5 months later. Once again ended it with her but after 3 weeks couldn't stay away from her and now living with her.
I think this is why I feel like I need boundries and Need to know what his plan is before i let him back home. He cracked in withdrawl after 3 weeks. I just don't know how he will be able to handle it this time. That's why I want him to be sure before he comes back home. I will continue to research all postings and success stories like you suggested. I will also try not to make demands right now and see what happens. Thanks.