I got up the nerve to ask my husband a couple ?s about the A last night. I asked him first how long before the EA became a PA. Then I asked him what would have happened if OW had not agreed to break all contact. <p>Sort of got some answers. He said he told me about A so that he could end it. He said he "hopes" that he could have ended it even if she hadn't, but that he can't (I guess I asked for honesty) say yes for sure. He said the A was destroying his life, and that if it had continued, it would have ruined everything he has. He said he doesn't want to tell me when PA started because he feels that it would make me feel worse. He said he doesn't want to talk about it much right now because he's trying to put her out of his mind and work on us. Those were his words. So I backed off. I think I did well at remaining totally calm the whole time. <p>Here's one very strange thing he said, and I'm proud that I didn't tell him to f*** off, cuz I wanted to. He said that he feels like he's the one who's lost the most because of the A. When I pulled away, he said "I'm not talking about losing her. That's not what I mean." But he wouldn't elaborate. So I backed off and we just sat and held hands for awhile. But what could he possibly have lost that's worse than what I lost? I know now that three years of my life were filled with lies and deceit, that I wasn't enough for him, that he still misses her, and on and on and on. Is that not loss? That's what I wanted to tell him, but couldn't remain calm enough to say it and not LB.<p>Any thoughts???

Dani<p>I would not presume to read your H's mind, but a lot of the time as a WS, what happens is you feel enormous guilt for the pain you have caused and the lies and deceipt that goes with an A.<p>You lose respect for yourself, and what your value system was prior to the A.<p>Perhaps that is what he feels.<p>In a way it is a good thing for him to consider.<p>Having been the WS in my first marriage and the BS in my current marriage I know a bit about the pain on both sides. It is not easy on either, though I think the BS gets the worst of it. <p>You are pretty early in this whole process so I would not push too hard. Allow him to feel some of the pain and guilt, he has to work through that. If you love him, just be there for him--his friend.<p>The other $0.02 I will throw in is be careful what you ask about. You can always find out later if you really feel the need to know, but asking about all the details can be very painful for you right now and really hurt this process....take it slow. There are some things you are probably better off not knowing.<p>Take care and good luck <p>E

Just wondering if I'm really plan A-ing, or just being a doormat. And wondering what I can do to keep my attitude better since I want some details about A and he's obviously not ready to provide these.<p>Also, I want to know if I should do this: I could ask OW what I want to know. Very strange situation, she's a family member. She and my H have promised not to talk to or seeone another, but she told me that if I needed to know anything or to say anything, she was open to that. Should I? Or would it be better to wait until my H wants to tell me? I just don't want to work on getting rid of these bad feelings and then have him get ready to talk and find out a bunch of stuff and feel crappy all over again. <p>BTW, she also offered to lay down and let me beat the s*** out of her. Should've done it :-)

Well, <p>If it were me, I would just wait on asking anyone any details at all.<p>As far as you and the OW are concerned, I would try to put her in your past. I know that is hard but you are better of focussing all your energy on you and your H and not wasting your time with her. <p>If your H is truly committed to your R and you are too...then that's where your focus needs to be for now.<p>Give yourself tsome time and try to be patient...don't agonize over the details and what
has happened. Try to focus on your marriage and what it could be.<p>As for the "doormat" thing...no one who sticks up for their marriage and the people they love by doing the hard work of trying to rebuild and work on maintaning their wedding vows is a doormat as far as I am concerned.<p>Anyone can have an A...<p>Anyone can walk away from a marriage...<p>It takes real guts and strength to withstand everything and stand and fight for what you think is right...<p>Good luck <p>E

Thank you...you don't know how much it helps to get advice from someone who's been in the same boat.<p>It helps even more that you can understand the position of my H. I appreciate it. I think you're right about the asking...it might just be counterproductive.<p>Thanks again.

The very first item on the very first checklist in SAA is "WS should reveal information about the A to the BS."<p>I believe you should ask everything you need to know as long as you don't go beyond your threshold for avoiding LBs. It is an important part of recovery for the WS to witness the BS's pain and to feel responsibility for it.<p>IMO, it does no good to wait. I'm still waiting for the information I need, and if I don't get it, I will divorce my H. To me it is a matter of respect. After a WS has disrespected and abused their spouse in the worst way possible by committing adultery, the redress for that is for the WS to help the BS heal from the wounds the WS inflicted.<p>It is necessary to reverse the attitude of disrespect and turn the wall into a window. During the A, the OP had an unobstructed view into the most intimate parts of your M. Unless the BS is given the same view into the A, equilibrium cannot be reestablished. It was the BS's LIFE that was forced to be lived in unreality. The BS is only asking to know what their life actually was, what they should have had all along.<p>Most of the time, when the WS doesn't want to come clean, it is because they want to remain in denial about what they've done, and the only purpose that serves is to create the environment for another A. Without BOTH spouses looking at the entire picture of reality TOGETHER, the WS gets to escape some of the most crucial connsequences of his/her actions and those that have the best hope of deterring future adulterous behavior.<p>If the WS doesn't develop empathy for the BS and full appreciation for the pain they personally caused the BS, then healing is incomplete, and minimization can continue.

Okay, then, how do I get him to understand my pain without LBing? I want to rant and rave sometimes, would like to knock the s*** out of him sometimes (yes, I know that's not healthy). When I start thinking/talking about it, my emotions take over and that's when I really want to LB. I want to hurt him as bad as he hurt me.<p>So, I guess what I'm asking is...can I plan A and vent to him at the same time? I don't think I can.

You have to get into the habit of stopping yourself when you feel yourself getting out of control. For me, my H's answers to my questions would be so lame and assinine that my first detour would be into sarcasm. So as soon as I recognized I was starting to be sarcastic, I knew it was time to stop, so I'd say, "I need to stop now.", and I'd leave the vicinity so it wouldn't escalate.<p>I finally quit asking back in January because I got so disgusted with the lame answers that I feared I would just give up altogether. His lack of empathy, remorse, and insight that his responses revealed were huge LBs to me, and each conversation like that would deplete my Love Bank at a precipitous rate. Unfortunately, avoiding talking about it for over 3 months now has only slowed down the withdrawal process. I really need to pursue it more with him because I know the M cannot survive under these conditions.<p>I have no magic answers. I just know that for me without demonstration from him that he owns what he did and has learned the necessary lessons from it in order to avoid the same behavior in the future, I will exit the M. I need to tell him this and have been having a difficult time figuring out how to do it when I haven't approached the subject in so long. Most of the time I don't even care enough to try. My H was a BS in his previous M, so I figure HE should know what his attitude should be, that I shouldn't have to tell him how it feels to be me right now.<p>The problem is that what I need to see to remain in the M is a heart condition. I know what a repentant WS looks like and sounds like because I see them here on this board. I could tell him the words and actions, but if it doesn't come from the heart, it won't make any difference. I will only know I am safe when he gets to a point where he will not betray HIMSELF by committing adultery again. As long as he's remaining in denial and avoiding facing who he is and what he's done, there's no hope of him evolving to that level of self-awareness.