My wife and I experienced a miscarriage about 3.5 years ago. We bonded like never before. After several months, she was still very down and I was ready to press forward. I stuck close to her, protected her, and was there for her during this tough time. After several more months, we became very detached, as my frustration mounted, and her grief persisted. I spoke to a woman that I had known for years, and began receiving the attention that I felt I was lacking. 2.5 year long story short, I had an affair with this woman for over 2 years. My wife found out, and I promised to stop. I was so deep into my web of deceit with both she and my wife, that I found it easier to keep it up, than to come clean. My wife has flat out snuffed out this affair 3 times. I was always "going to stop it." At one point, I told her I was leaving. I moved out for 1 year, but saw her often. We went to counseling, marriage workshops, etc..... but nothing worked, because I was still having an affiar and not being honest about it. Last Friday, she confirmed that I had been in contact with the other woman, and asked me to leave again. She said that she was finally finished. When I realized how headstrong she seemed about this decision, I suddenly realized what I had given up. I immediately cut ties with the other woman, and allowed my wife to confirm so, and it was actually very easy to do. I simply did not have the same motivation before, that I now have. Before, I never believed that she would really divorce me. I have pleaded with her, and promised the world. I am committed to delivering, should she give me the opportunity. She maintains that it is over, and that the best thing I can do for her, is let her go. I am willing to fight, if there is any hope at all. Is there hope? What can I say or do, to show her how serious I am about this? I have convinced her to go with me to see a counselor today. but she says not to get hopes up, as she really just needs to express some things to me, and in the presence of a third party is good.

I think everyone has their breaking point. and I have read several stories similar to yours on this board, with happy recovery endings. For me? I have drawn my line in the sand, and if my husband ever engages in his addiction to OEA again, our marriage is ended. I hope it does not come down to that, but if we were in your situation, there would not be any hope for us.

Let me reply in the form of a question:<p>You want your wife back. In her eyes, what do you have to offer? You answer that in your heart.

Well, I am one of those similar story happy endings. 7 separations, the A 18 months off & on.<p>The 7th separation, I let Plan A go away, couldn't manage Plan B, but I detached. My H decided he wanted the marriage, said so in our counselor's office...I went to see him at his office that day, found him emailing the OW... [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I served D papers and really planned to move on with my life since there was nothing he hadn't promised me several times that he hadn't broken.<p>He did Plan A to me for 4 months, despite the fact I was pursuing the D, beginning to date (no not advisable). My H wooed me back.<p>These are the things he did:
-began taking anti-depressants
-seeing our counselor on his own
-attending a men's bible study
-had male friends whom he could call & they would hold him accountable
-gave me email & voice mail passwords
-was accountable to me, even though my interest wasn't very high in what he was doing
-didn't go to bars without me
-stopped personal contact with his co-worker OW.
-was kind, loving in behavior to me<p>I wanted him to stop Plan A, I wanted him to let me go. I wanted the divorce. I never thought I could try again.<p>As I said, it took 4 months of that to convince me he was sincere, the 2+ years of bad behavior was difficult for me to overcome. Our early recovery was also difficult and slow. I had been a regular poster on MB for about 18 months when we reconciled, and I didn't start posting on recovery until we'd been together 6 months.<p>My H has been really good. 2 years later his behavior is trustworthy, consistant. We still call each other at least once a day, we're both accountable (the OM's presence in my life of course added difficulty).<p>My H & I are in love, we're pretty happy, we are a team. I'm glad we're together.<p>So, it is possible, but you have to be trustworthy, consistant, accountable, patient and give her time to believe it. She may not. <p>And, we have an agreement, no backsliding into any kind of A, we will divorce if it happens.

Now it is time for you to wait, just as she was forced to wait while you chose to screw her life up. I would strongly recommend you try to show her you love her in all the ways possible, and get some counselling for yourself. No doubt she has issues she needs to work on, but you need to fix yourself before you can go to counselling with her. I do not know your entire situation, but do know the hurt you caused, and I have not experienced any pain that compares with what you did. If you are truly committed to her and the marriage, then you will stand by her side for a time frame you must decide, to show your committment to her regardless of how she treats you over the next while (Assuming she dosen't become abusive or try to hurt you back by jumping out of her marriage vows in the same way you did.)

Boy, you really screwed up didn't you?<p>You have thrown her away so many times she feels stupid for ever having positive feelings for you. You are the only one who can prove that you have anything to offer her. Then you have to do it in the face of endless rejection just as she has.<p>Her tent comment is so telling. You will have to be absolutely committed to all points of recovery and forever hopeful even when she has apppeared to move on.<p>She will say that you don't deserve another chance. You don't.<p>However, you may be able to EARN another chance by following all of these fine people's suggestions. If you think you have gone overboard in accountability, go further. If you think you are putting out all the love and effort with nothing in return, then think about her three years of doing the same.

First off, you are really not sincere about this do your wife the kindness of cutting her free.<p>If you are sincere then there is hope. You will have to win your wife back. It will not be easy. What is different this time? What plan do you have to ensure that you will not continue your affair or have another one? She will need to know that.<p>There is another problem here. While you were pursuing your affair, you pushed your wife away. Her needs were not being met. She is now very vulnerable for having an affair of her own. You think she would not do that? Well she once thought that of you too. The statistic for BS’s having a secondary affair is somewhere between 50%-80%.<p>If you are serious about recovering your marriage read all of the material on this web site, read “Surviving An Affair”, “His Needs, Her Needs” and “Love Busters”. Pay special attention to Plan A. It will help you woo your wife back if there is any chance. I would also suggest that you call Dr. Harley for some counseling as soon as you can. His number, etc are listed on this web site.<p>I discovered my H’s affairs 3/21/2001. We had been married for only 9 months at that time. As far as I was concerned, our marriage was over. I have very intense negative feelings towards him…. I hated him, I was afraid of him. When I looked at him a saw a stranger, a man I could not trust, a man who was capable of doing a vial thing to me. <p>He maintained that he loved me and had no idea why he did thing horrible thing. He plan a’d me. He told me that he was the one who caused the damage so it was his responsibility to fix it and help me heal. For the last year he has lived up to that promise. Anything less would not work.<p>He also knows that if he ever has another affair, he may as well pack and leave. There are no second chances. <p>If your wife gives you another chance you will be a very lucky man. She owes you nothing at this point.

I appreciate all of the suggestions and comments. I have been getting some other great information from the Emotional Needs forum, as well. To bring you up to speed, I had an individual counseling session yesterday, followed by a joint session with my wife. She agreed to go, but cautioned that she did not want to give false hope. I started yesterday afternoon leaving a daily schedule on the counter for her. (I am not living at home, but go by daily to feed our animals...her request).
Today I am providing her with all passwords, passcodes, and "total access" as well.<p>In the session, she expressed her need to regain who she is. Said that she has lost touch with herself through all of this. Needs the time and space to regain herself.<p>Last Sunday, she made a comment to me that, "if I was sincere at all about wanting to make this work, that insterad of rushing to leave the house when she asked, I woud have camped out in the front yard."<p>Some people on the Emotional Needs Forum suggested actually getting a tent, making a sign (I have been a big jerk, but I love my wife, and will do anything to get her back), and actually camp out for a night.<p>I got very excited about this idea, but don't think it gels well with her need for time and space.<p>What do you guys think?

I think her need for "time" and "space" is a big red flag. Most BSs hear that from the WS. Like Zorweb says, your W is very vulnerable. Like I was, and I had a man waiting with a net for me to stumble. And I did. <p>I think the tent is a great idea...it's HER suggestion for what would mean something to her.<p>She may get or act angry, but it's a lovely gesture on your part. I didn't think I wanted any gestures on my H's part, but now when I think back, my heart was softening toward him, no matter how I acted in trying to distance myself.<p>Here's a link to my H's first post, his poster name is Guard, he was also given some really good advice by some really good oldtimers, friend of mine who had been standing with me for well over a year:<p>I betrayed my wife

Of course I am scared about the "Big red Flag." She is certainly very vulnerable. Has been for a while, but probably more so than ever now.<p>I am still uncertain about the timing of the tent idea.<p>I went by our house during lunch to let the dogs out.....her request.<p>I had left a schedule yesterday of where I would be.<p>I found it in the trash. Pretty much expected that.<p>I am going back this afternoon to feed the dogs, and leave my next schedule. I was thinking of taking the trash out, vaccuuming and putting some fresh flowers on the kitchen table.<p>Are these pushy manipulative tactics?<p>How about camping in the front yard this evening?<p>Any more opinions on that?

If you choose to do something like this, you better be sure you do not make her feel embarrassed in front of the people living around there. Alot of times people say they want something out a malicous intent, and when the oither person does it they can be very embarassed. Personally I think finding some way of telling the world how much you hurt her, and how cruel what you did was, as well as how much you love her, what you have learned, why you did the things you did (This is the faults you have, not that she didn't meet your emotional needs, or some felling you had inside you. She already knows that and has suffered enough.) She is at a point that she really needs you to start to come clean, admit you have some deep seated issues, that you were not strong enough in the time of adversity to hold up your marriage vows, that you have a weakness, and what things you can do to correct that weakness. But ultimately you will need to have her understand what parts of yourself you have changed to ensure you never hurt her like this again. I do not know how you get these messages across to her without embarassing her, but until you can answer these questions and be able to communicate the answer to her she will most certainly not want you to give you any space at all. If you don't have the power to face these types of question and answer them, then let her know you don't have the strength to understand what happened, and let her make the choice if she wants to move on. The benefit of finding these answers for you is no matter is you can resolve things with your wife, what will prevent you from doing this in your next relationship, and hurt someone else as much as you have hurt your wife?

Lost in space - did not understand your view of camping clearly.<p>Understood and received well everything else.<p>Camp or no?