Hi all,<p>I've read a lot and posted a few times on this board over the last 6 weeks or so. But I have'nt found this particular issue addressed yet. My H had an A with an ex-girlfriend for about 4-5 months and I discovered some e-mails when I was looking for something else on his computer. Long story, short, I have been trying to practice MB principles since D-Day, but I am still hitting roadblocks with my H in regards to getting the true story of what went on. Let's just say there are many inconsistencies in his story. How can I go on to recover when I'm not even entirely sure what I'm recovering from? I need verification of some of the 'facts' he's feeding me and who else to get them from besides the OW? <p>I have seen posts on this board (and I read thru the archives ) about the perils of contact because the BS is misplacing anger onto the OP or giving the OP power by asking them to "stay away from my spouse". I don't intend to do either of those things. I don't want to harm her or call her names, neither do I think I have any power to to tell her who she can and cannot contact. I just want some verification of what my H has been telling me, because his stories don't make sense. I have her e-mail, phone numbers ( home and cell ). <p>Has anyone had experience with contact w/ OP? How did it turn out for you?<p>Thanks for reading...

Angel,
The OP isn't your friend, they have no loyalty whatever to you...there is no reason to believe that anything they say is the truth.<p>Oh, when I called the FOW, when she'd been having a PA with my H for 15 months and had spent the day with him, she said she didn't date married men. My prayer partner had seen them together that day at a restaurant. Oh & until my prayer partner called me to pass that info on, my H said he hadn't seen her specifically that day, not for weeks.<p>You can do it, just don't expect that your understanding will get one bit better.

Hi Angel,<p>I found out about my SO's affairs from the other women. It seems that while they knew he and I lived together and were raising children they believed that we were not "together" and were very upset to find out that he was cheating on them. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] So they came to confront me, I'm not sure what they hoped to gain from it but we did confront him and he did not deny it. But he was not eager to tell me anything that had happened in the 2years he had been carrying on. One of the OW told me everything they had ever done that she could remember, I don't know her motive. She told me what they talked about, where they went, how much money she had given him, how it came about that she gave him money, what they did when together, what nights he had spent at her house, what they did sexually, I mean everything. And while I don't believe everything she said, somewhere between what she said and what he said is the truth. So I listened. And as a result I know alot of things that normally a BS wouldn't want to know (unless they can really handle the pictures in their head) but I needed to know them in order to start recovering.<p>The other other woman can't be trusted to tell the truth. You know how sometimes you can just look at a person and tell he/she's lying..well that's her. Those are the dangerous ones. After she found out about me she still tried to see him and probably succeeded, she still calls to this day. That's the sort of b**** I can't stand. Ok so I'm rambling now but what I mean to say is it depends on the OW. Some will tell you, if for no reason other than just to hurt you, but weed out their stories too, some of it is just exaggeration meant to get under your skin. You know enough about WS to kinda tell what is something he might do and what isn't and between what he tells you and what she does, you can pretty much figure what actually happened. <p>HTH,
Bridgette

Hi there,
I DID contact the OM in my case. Same as you I didnt want to holler or yet or anything. It was something I wanted to do. Folks here seem to be split on if its a good thing to do or not. I think I heard of a few cases of BS's who were even counciled by harley to meet the Op.<p>It didnt give me too many answers to do it. It let me get a better sense of reality and put at least a voice on the thing that was menacing my marriage. <p>I think the biggest things why it COULD be bad:
Make sure its not a love buster. If your spouse really is against or upset by it, it might be a bad thing. It could send them running back. After I called my wife (who was still in fog) felt the urge to call him to "apologize" that I had called out of the blue.
uh huh.<p>Also, make sure you dont say anything that can be used against you. If the OP can use something you say and twist it, im sure they will if they are desperate enough.<p>Lastly, dont bite if the OP baits you or isnt happy to hear from you. Again that can come back to haunt you.<p>Good luck<p>-HI

Lor,<p>So are you saying if you had it to do all over again, you would'nt bother? Did you not get anything from the conversation?<p>
some1s_mom <p>In your case the OW came to you? Are you saying you would have rather they did'nt give you all the information so you would have something to sort thru between what your SO said and what the OW said. Because I feel even if the OW tells some outrageous lie and I bring it to my WH, I will know if it's the truth by his reaction. One good thing has come out of all of this is that my sense of what he does when he tells the truth and tells a lie is a lot clearer now, I guess it's the hypersentivity.<p>Thank you both for the input.

HanginIn,<p>Thanks for your insight on the possible down side(s), especially the possibilty of the contact being a lovebuster for him. I'm working very hard not to LB. But that is also one of my biggest challenges-knowing when my getting my needs met, in this case Honesty turn into love busters for my H. ( something for another thread ) I will definitely think more before I decide if it's worth it.<p>Angel

angel,<p>It is a very risky thing to do and could backfire on you, but for some of us, it was a great help. The OW in my case gave me a great deal of information about their affair and about my H in general - truthful information. She was very open, very remorseful and very helpful. I realize that my experience is rare, though. I am very glad that I contacted her.

MelodyLane,<p>Thanks for your input. Can I ask if the risk was so great of backfire what made you contact the OP anyway?

I contacted one OW. The only non-anonymous PA my H will admit to. He dialed the number for me! I met her long after their ONS -- we happened to end up working at the same place (Gods hand is in everything!) <p>I'm glad we spoke. It shed a different light on the whole episode. He insisted there was a condom -- she swears that 1)she was too drunk to care, and so was he and 2)she had just moved into the place that week and practiallly everything but her futon bed was still packed. She also told me that they talked a few days later and she told him that she had herpes. He denies this, but we were both tested positive after talking to her anyway. <p>She was remorseful. She told me that if I wanted to call and talk or yell at her at any time, I should do so. I've never felt a need to. After all, it's not HER I took vows with. <p>But it did prove to me that my H, even in his "telling all", did not tell all and still couldn't be trusted, that he was trying to paint himself in as good a light a possible, given the circumstances. <p>So, like the others have said, I guess it depends on the OW. <p>Snow

Snow,<p>Thanks for your input, I am begginning to see that it truly does depend on the OW.

Angel,<p>Yes, she did come to me. I think she figured if she told on him I would leave him and she could probably get the other woman to leave him too, I know she still pursued him after dday, and that during our last conversation when she said to me "I don't see how you can still sleep with him and have to wonder who he slept with that day" that she was getting desperate and was pretty upset that I had left him but had come back. I never spoke with her after that. It was a big Lb on both our parts because he didn't want us talking, he didn't want her to tell me what they had done and he didn't want me to tell her that he was begging me to stay.<p>I am glad she did though, because I am the type that needs to know all those ugly details and even though she was doing it to hurt me probably she answered questions he would never answer because he would be trying to protect me from those ugly things.<p>Bridgette

some1smom,<p>My H is exactly like yours in that I think they both hold back all the ugly stuff for fear of hurting us more, but because I know he's holding something back, I never feel like I have the full story, which makes me think it's not just ugly stuff, but some important details that put more pieces to the puzzle of what happened to my marriage. <p>Thanks.

I contacted all of my H's OW'en. <p>I found out about his affairs by sitting down at his computer one morning when he accidently had left his chat window open over night. A woman who he said was just a casual chat friend IM'd to say good morning. So I talked to her for a while as him. Then I told her that I was his wife. They had been chatting for 2.5 years and had developed an online/phone romance. He had never told her that he'd gotten engaged and married me. She thought she was the only one.<p>After talking to her, I got his IM buddy list of 60 women. I was able to contact 30 of them. Almost all of those 30 talked to me at length. I found that he'd been having on-line/phone affairs with 10 of those 30. He travels 30-50% of the time so it was easy. And he never gave them his home phone number and address. He told them all that it hard to get phone service in New Mexico so he did not have a land line. They bought the stupid story. Each one thought she was the only one. He told all of them that he was a divorced dad with custory of his children. So none of them knew he had remarried. Some of the affairs had been going on for 2.5 years. Some for a little as 3-4 months. He'd met some of the women in person, had dinner/lunch dates with them. The affairs were almost all at the point where he was starting to meet them in person and continue them off line. <p>I made a point of telling all of the women about each other. Well, that did it. For the most part they told me all sorts of things. I was able to confirm that what they told me was the truth.<p>If I had not contacted these women, I would have never known about his affairs nor about the extent of them. I was able to use the info they gave me to get my H to fess up.<p>Let's face it. He had 11 women (his 10 OW'en and me furious at him). You've hear 'beware the anger of a woman scorned' (or something like that). Imagine the anger of 11 scorned women. He got exactly what he deserved from all of us.<p>I chatted and spoke on the phone with most of the women for 3-4 months after d-day. Later, after the shock wore off, most of the women turned on me and started to twist things. Each one felt that she was his REAL love and that he'd only married me for money or to baby sit his kids. A few of them got down right mean. When that started happening I changed my IM name and stopped talking to them. None of them know our home phone number or address so I was able to cut it all easily.<p>From my experience, I'd say that it's a good idea to talk to the OP. See what they have to say. But always remember that they are not your friend. That they do not have your best interest in mind. They may tell lies and try to hurt you. So have a tough skin when/if you do this. And after you get the info you want from them do not talk to them again. After a point any further contact is just poison to your mental health.<p>JMHO

You may find this article interesting. The attached letter says it all. I shared it with my FWS about a year ago... I think it helped him open up to me about his affairs.<p>
The "Need to Know"

Thought I'd put my 2cents worth in here. <p>I contacted OW three or four times. On d-day-this gave me some info, confirmed the EA. Second time- she rang H-he told me that they hadn't contacted each other and my phone call to her restarted contact.<p>Another time she told me all sorts of stuff that H supposedly said, but who do I believe? She wants my H so she could tell me anything to make me mad and leave him. He may or may not have some loyalty to me. <p>I can imagine most things that happen. I know one day my H will either tell me all, or it won't matter to me anymore. The more I know the more I have to resent and that will not aid forgiveness. <p>Really, its not her threatening my marriage its the stuff that lead up to the affair ie NOT MEETING EMOTIONAL NEEDS. I feel now that I have to stop focusing on the affair and focus on that, because after all, thats what will prepare me for a new and better with or without my H.

Angel,<p>I was one of the people counseled to talk to OM. But let me just restate that: it was suggested by a professional who knew my situation well! I don't want to claim that it's for everyone! Steve wanted to make that clear to me, knowing that I post here!<p>I can describe my situation: WW had constructed a very strong fantasy based on her dual life... We live about 50 miles from where she works (I work 50 miles in the other direction). In some of the meager correspondence I've intercepted, she had demonstrated that she was trying to paint a picutre of her life - without me mentioned at all! Also, OM is foreign and quite naive - never been in a serious relationship before. So all of these factors, plus the fact that I'm a very level-headed guy, allowed me to go talk to him.<p>I basically asked him, "What are your plans? Seems to me like you don't really have any." "I do love WW." "I'm not here to tell you to stop." "I'm concerned for WW's mental health - you do know she's in therapy, right?" "WW and I still do things like husband and wife." "I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but maybe you might want to listen to her ACTIONS instead of her words." (Then I pointed out the action I was highlighting - the fact she's never left me.) Etc. Etc. I asked him if he had any questions of me. It was a very strange situation... But I treated him kindly. My intent was to prevent him (or WW) from being able to construct further caractures of me when together... he admitted to WW that I'm "nice" - aww [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Anyhow, the effect has been interesting but unclear. WW admits it was "her worst nightmare come true." I've got to question how strong of a R it can be if it totally relies on him not talking to another person... sounds tenuous at best!!!

Zorweb & Seahorse,<p>Thank you so much for your input. I did read the link to "the Need to Know" and it was very well written and I'm going to send it to my H to try to help him understand where I'm coming from.<p>--Angel

Thanks J.R. for your input. I see your point about not leaping before looking, so to speak, as many others have so kindly reinterated on this thread. I do also feel that I am quite level-headed and can handle what she says. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about contacting OW is my H's answers to my questions don't make sense,so I do have a strong suspicion he's created some sort of fantasy for her....I just don't know any other way to find out.

Angel,
Perhaps I should have added that I had already met the OW probably in the EA stage, and she was rather biting & catty toward me. So, I knew what she looked like, and had a glimpse of her personality, which didn't match the "sweetheart" my H knew. I still see her at his work Xmas parties. <p>So, my feelings of wanting her the heck out of my life and sight, not to mention that of my H's, probably influence any input I give on contacting the OP. <p>I guess the main thing I gained from calling her was that my H was also lying to her, telling her he had filed D papers, when he hadn't even seen a lawyer or served me D papers. She was surprised to find out he was living at home, in fact home at the very time I called her. He told her was separated from me again. Soon he was, but not that day.<p>My revealing his lies to her didn't stop their A at all and it made him mad--house of cards tumbling.<p>I don't regret it, just advise you to keep your wits about you and sift everything carefully.

I think it depends on the situation - in Zorweb's
situation, she would never have known the extent of the problem unless she had gone ahead and made contact with the other women - I have enormous respect for her - what a shock that must have been, and yet she persisted in trying to find out the truth, no matter how bad. But interesting that eventually, the other women turned on her - this is my warning as well.<p>No matter how much you might feel that talking to the OW would "help" you to figure out what's really going on behind your back, remember, the OW is NEVER your friend. A WS almost always justifies his actions by holding YOU responsible for HIS actions (the Its All Your Fault Syndrome) - everything you do is under his spotlight - any contact you make with the OW can be seen as an attempt to manipulate him.<p>This is what happened to me - I found my H's private e-mail a/c - out of curiosity, i guessed his password - found to my shock, he was e-mailing a girl I didn't even know he was friends with - turned out they had been having a drink together one evening a week for 4 months - by the time I found these e-mails, he was saying things like "will be thinking of you tomorrow" and "I kiss all your blonde parts" - I confronted him (this was his 2nd EA in 6 months - I thought we were in recovery from the last one) - this was before I found MB.<p>Then - I fired off an e-mail to her - I listed all her pet names and asked her what kind of R she thought she was having with my H. She e-mailed me back, all sweet as sugar candy - oh, big mistake - misunderstanding - we're JUST GOOD FRIENDS - she admitted she would have been upset if she found these on her BF's computer - she OFFERED to stop "chatting" with him. I thanked her, felt we had had a woman-to-woman talk, and she would now back out. I also shared with her all the stress we had been under - my brother had died, my H's sister-in-law had committed suicide, I had had a miscarriage.<p>I watched their e-mails for 10 days. She didn't stop - she got more flirtatious and initiated lots of contact with him. Then she came to our house for a piano lesson (my H was her teacher - he is 45, she is 22) - i was at work, my 2 boys, 6 and 9, were home from school. She brought them a bag of candy and stayed for a cup of coffee. The next day my six yr old says "I saw Daddy kiss that pretty lady in the kitchen". (I've posted all this on my earlier threads). <p>I then e-mailed her and was not all nice this time - firmly told her she had to ask herself some hard questions about what kind of a person she wanted to be.<p>The upshot of it was - she obviously bleated to my H that I had threatened her and had threatened to ruin her reputation and tell her BF. (!!!!!) My H exploded at ME - he was horrendous - and I felt very threatened. I may have been within my rights, but the impact was bad.<p>The point is - she can't tell you anything you REALLY need to know that you can't find out in other ways. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have contacted her that second time. She twisted my words to make herself look innocent and abused - in fact, now she likes to sign herself "Your innocent, naive, candid friend" (GAG ME).<p>You are far better off addressing your own issues - forget about her - easy to say - concentrate on building your own strengths, doing everything you can to make yourself independent. Behave with dignity, and self-respect - don't indulge yourself by giving in to the desire to rage and express your anger - come to this site to do that. In the meantime, do as someone advised me here - treat your H as a science experiment - try meeting each of the EN's one at a time and watch his reaction - see what it is that makes him tick - then, when you get a positive result, make sure you feed that need in him. If there is energy left in the R, he will respond in some positive way to you.<p>I am doing this with my H - I am complimenting him genuinely and honestly, for one thing he does well at least once a day. This is hard when you're raging mad at someone and they don't "deserve" it, but its and act of will - which is what an act of real love - not just feelings - it's like - create the climate for love, and then the feelings follow. This is what seems to be happening with my WS - I am just feeding him positive attention every day, and now, he is coming back to me for sex, good loving sex, and doing things with ME again - going out, playing games, now he's even started bringing me things he thinks I will like - stuffed olives - being thoughtful in little ways again. All this is positive.<p>The OW is still in the picture and I am sure he is still e-mailing and probably still seeing her - but I am trying my d*mndest to keep the focus off her and on me - this is my plan A - slowly, I'm having results. Will it continue? there's a chance for us, that's all I can say - <p>I have thought of what I might do if the OW contacts me - I will print out her e-mail and give it to my H. OW who get involved with MM have their own problems - don't get wound up in hers - oh, BTW, this OW also e-mailed me telling me "good luck on fixing your marriage - I'm out of here" - She wasn't. They're all liars.
If you contact her, you will get sucked into her game and then blamed for causing more trouble.<p>Behave with dignity - but be crafty, that's my advice.<p>Odile