Given the advice that I have read lately, I need to let go of H and A much more than I am. So, does that mean when he continues to lie..and lie about insignificant things..to let it go? Due to the fog, I can understand why H may lie about A but things like if he is at work when he calls(he's been going in later-when he is at her house or she at his), if he took the round-up sprayer to his house (he did and says he didn't), etc. My H never used to lie. Why does he bother to lie about stupid things? Why not just tell me he is still at his house in the morning? Why not tell me why he wants to change the entire visitation schedule to fit around OW schedule? So, I guess I am just suppposed to let the continous lies roll off my back..?

Have you read Harleys book Surviving an A? He points out how common it is for the WS to continue to lie even after the A is exposed and why they do it. I too was shocked when my H who had been VERY honest for 15 yrs of marriage could look right at me last year and lie! After he refused to end the A, I asked him to move out to 'think.' He claimed he was staying with 'various friends' and so he couldnt give me a phone number, but just like I thought he was staying at OW's condo. Her number was unlisted - I tried to call there but he wouldnt give me the number. Then even after he moved back home to reconcile he still continued to lie- I checked his cell phone log one afternoon and asked him if he had called OW and he lied right to me and said NO. It's amazing isnt it??? I was asking him in counseling last night why he behaved the way he did last year. He said that he figured when I Got over the shock of finding out about the A that I would divorce him anyway so he figured he was 'so far involved' he might as well keep it up! GEESH! I never said I would divorce him after finding out about his A, in fact OW pressured him to file on ME which he did and then he woke up to what he was doing!I have always been pro-marriage and with 3 kids to raise I am even more so! I guess the only way you can make sense out of it is to think of the WS as in an addiction and they have gone 'temporarily insane' as my pastor told me! Hang in there! lifeismessy

I hate to add more fuel to the fire, rather than water, but unfortunately, that's all I've got.<p>The only reason I'm posting is because some wise, experienced soul on this board will come thru and give us some ideas.<p>I won't go into all the details, but suffice it to say that for about 8 months, non-stop, my WW has been lying about continued contact, about the nature of the A, about everything!
I've even confronted her with recordings of calls with the OM, and she still doesn't admit it. And this did not happen once, but probably 8-9 times (calls, letters, po boxes, you name it!) same thing, just goes hysterical about my invasion of her privacy, and totally skirts the real issue.<p>Even worse, she's had to extend the lies to her family, (mother, sisters, firends, our kids) simply amazing! The lengths she will go to to keep this charade up are beyond my comprehension!<p>Example; she went to NY to visit her best sister, the only one she talks to about this, spent a few days there and then flew to FL (where the OM lives). Well, the night she flew to FL, her sister calls her here, believing all along she'd come home...can't even face her sister, or tell her, just so the lies she's been feeding her won't come out...simply amazing.<p>It'd be interesting to see if there are others who've gone through this and how they resolved this....

It's about them maintaining a false sense of control... about keeping 'walls' up... <p>... in some cases, they have told so many lies, truth has been forgotten...<p>... mostly they are lying to themselves... defense mechanism... not you...<p>Try not to take it personally... I quit arguing about the lies. Waste of time.<p>Cali

Lies lies and mmore lies.....very out of character for many but a way of life for the A. <p>I reminded my H that he needs to work harder at it. Why? because he was not as good of a liar than the OW and he looked stupid trying hard to lie because I could see right through it. <p>That put him in a precarious position. Couldn't be proud of lying because he just wasn't good at it. You know what? That was when he admitted that the OW was a liar and a better one than him!!! Duhhhhhhh<p>L.

cali and orchid are right. it is to protect themselves. from what you say, from seeing the real person they have become.<p>short of a serial cheater or a truely mentally unbalanced person, think about this-for my wh his top emotional needs were SF, admiration. well when you start to think about the admiration need, he is a very proud man, and always is trying to top himself in achievments. he would have to really, seriously, admitt to himself what a horrible thing he had done and what a horrible person he had become. very hard thing to do for anyone, let alone someone knowingly seeking out admiration as a need. we had a few lies, nothing major after he fessed up to everything. im sure i dont know all, nor will i ever, but i am in a place that he has answered all i asked, willingly and honestly, and i have enough to process and heal. <p>you will all get to this place also, in time. it doesnt happen overnite. patience is key, and working on yourselves. get strong

I am going to order "Surv. the A". I thought "Surviving Infid." was the one people were talking about..so glad, because I didn't like it.
I did't sleep again last night-kept waking up and seeing the image of H saying goodbye to OW at X-mas party and how tender it was, etc. I don't know why he even wanted me to go. I should have know then. I did mention the OW's behavior with H to a few people. I've done some reading about obsessing and I've tried to tell myself stop when it is happening, etc. It doesn't work well. The thought of my H and OW having sex doesn't bother me as much as holding hands, kissing, and conversations. I miss him. I AM working on myself but I am just not very excited about anything.
I wonder if my H, even if we don't get back together, will ever change back to the person he once was, honest and caring, etc.

I don't know if this is helpful, and I don't remember where I got it (Probably some book or tape ad)
But It might help:<p>5 Examples of Deceit Detection<p>Eye Movement Detection<p>When a person thinks, he uses different parts of his brain depending upon the information that is being accessed. This process can be observed by watching his eyes.
For right-handed people visual memories are accessed by the eyes going up and to the left. For a left-handed person, it's the reverse: the eyes go up and to the right. When a right-handed person seeks to create an image or fact, his eyes go up and to the left. And the reverse is true for the left-handed person.
Why don't you try this? Do you recall what color your first car was? If you had to think about it, there's a good chance that if your right-handed, your eyes went up and to the left. Your eyes went up and to the right if you're left-handed.
You can use this technique in any conversation to determine if the person is creating or recalling information. Simply watch his eyes and you'll know whether he's recalling an event that has already occurred, or making up a story about something that has never happened. <p>Psychological Reaction Detection
People may use inanimate objects to "cover" themselves. Just as a person uses objects to hide from physical harm, when a person feels uncomfortable, they may involuntarily place barriers between themselves and the source of discomfort. Pillows, cups, they are all objects that might be used, as well as talking from a different room, where the walls act as barriers... <p>Speech Detection
A guilty person is always uncomfortable with silence... If you ask someone a question, notice if he/she adds more information than necessary... When telling a lie, a person is not happy with a short answer, he will add more to justify the lie to himself as well as the listener... If someone answers in an interrogation style format he is usually lying... <p>Gestures Detection
Finger pointing almost always gives a sense of authority or justification... A person telling a lie will have a hard time using this commanding gesture... <p>Body Movement Detection
When a person's hand goes to their face when responding or making a statement, it is sometimes a sign of deceit. Covering the mouth while talking usually is a screen, an unconscious attempt at hiding words... Any sort of uncommon contact with the face is an indication that the person is not being honest... Be careful not to confuse these signs with a person's common conversational traits...

Spacecase: I had never read that about the eyes. I'll have to watch. Thanks.<p>I've had a down day. Thinking about past conversations with H and how hopeless it all seems and obsessing about things I noticed but let go. I KNOW, work on myself and let go. I just don't know you really do it. I thik about H and situation ever second of the day. I can't get excited about anything. I am on antidepress. It seems so overwhelming..taking care of three kids, household, bills, and looking for a fulltime job. What's to get excited about? OK, I am having a pity party. I am grateful that I am healthy and that I have wonderful kids. I feel good and then it's like today, I feel like not getting out of bed and calling H and crying and screaming about what's he done (I didn't-he is out of town).
What if OW uses a Plan A strategy too?
Hope tomorrow is better.

CS,
I feel for you. I know how hard it is, I was there just a few short weeks ago. The pain never completely goes away, but the despair does, and other things start to happen; hope, new roads, new opportunities.<p>Work on you, take care of you and the kids, and it'll start turning around sooner than you think.<p>Post here, get feedback, vent....we're here for you!