Guess I will be shot down in flames for asking this, but can we suggest to our WAH that they are suffering MLC, and that they need to get some help or leave OP and really look to the truth to see if this is what they truly want. and or that you both go to C even if its only to part as friends and help kids understand.
I now realise my H has rewritten the past before he started A and then left to live with her, yes I'm slow- agreed with him we had grown apart 30yrs long time- but now I see he was pushing me away, being unkind and hurtful (such a change) for no real reason,looking back he must have been mentally preparing for the action he was about to take,ie adultery.
He can block out all the pain/guilt and suffering he has caused me and his kids by his version of how our marriage was.
18mths and waiting for the man I love to see the light re his new life with a tramp.
Help suggestions.

I would imagine such suggestions are probably considered LBs. I pointed out to my H that he had all the symptoms of major depression AND was a textbook MLC. Of course he denied everything and said he was just fine except for not wanting to be married. When the fog started clearing he realized and admitted that he was depressed and did have a MLC.

In general, I think would be unhelpful. It does not validate him but instead trivialises his behaviour by labeling it. MLC is just a label some people put on a collection of behaviours. Labeling it doesn't change it. You H, like almost everybody on teh planet, believes that he is a unique individual with unique experiences. Catagorizing him to some extent denies that and will probably further alienate him.

My point is that accepting your H's point of view on the marriage is likely to be more helpful that to label him as "MLC" or "crazy".

-AD

<small>[ June 30, 2002, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Seems to be conflicting advice but take both points
My point is that H just does not nor has not said anything to me in all this time!!
First thing I got was"I am seeing someone"
then a little "I luv you but... we had grown apart..thought I knew he wanted new life"(had no idea)
after moving out and lots in between I got "I have a new life and am fine!" Thats all I know about how he feels or why this happened.
Repeatedly asked why and get no answer-
Only thing he will talk about is separating are finances "so that we both know where we stand finacially in our separation, and can move on with are lives".(except I don,t have one )
We have no contact / he has 3 kids also no contact tho they refuse to have anything to do with him) but he has not tried too.
Only time we speak is re money matters. Given up- then carry on- just waiting for H to see the light, thats why I asked Q- I do know he was depressed b4 and after it all started-now he just says hes fine.
What away to end a M of 30yrs. Was all of it just my dream.

naej,<p>Wow! 30 years! I don't have any standing to give you any advice.<p>-AD

One of the basic MB rules is that the BS not try to educate the WS and/or the OP. It's futile and will only serve as a love buster. It would sound like a disrespectful judgement.

Naej<p>If telling your H that he is having a MLC would actually HELP I'd say, "Yeah, sure, tell him. Why not?"<p>It won't help, so don't do it.<p>It is a futile effort. He will not hear your words as comng from a loving, concerned wife. He will hear it as a criticism , and will be strengthened in his resolve that you just don't understand him.<p>He needs to crawl out of this hole himself.<p>Concentrate on yourself.<p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Thanks to all for replies, Guess I knew answers really- Kind of clutching at straws.
Keep telling myself IT IS OVER!! BUT--always the BUT.
Aband Dad, you made me smile-thanks. Don,t know if lenght of time makes pain more or what I do think IMHO that it makes the moving on soooo much harder, for I cannot remember a time when H was not in my life, no memories of a life or a ME he was not a part of.
Also my kids who are now 27,25,24 yrs-harder for them too- For all there years they have had a Dad who loved and cared for them-altho because of his job I was the one who brought them up as such. (I was a stay at home wife)
The panic and fear I have of re-entering the "world" so to speak is great,altho the few close friends I have would see me as a capable type.
I realised soon after my H left that He is/was included in just about every sentence I say-
so now I say little.
A councellor told me that I still have my memories and the happiness of years gone by but I feel that is wrong becos now I wonder IF any of it was real or happy? It has left so much self doubt, when after so long your H leaves with no explanations or communications as to why etc,it leaves u with a million unanswered questions and a forever wondering.
I am 53 now and find a new life imposs to comprehend-hard to meet anyone for a start, old friends tend to disappear/as friends of us both.
I am living but its just a continuation of old life minus H.
Sometimes I feel like a leper and should ring a bell(couples avoid you, as tho I have designs on their H)
It is a very lonely existance.
Best of luck to you. N

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by naej:
<strong>Aband Dad, you made me smile-thanks. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well... that made my day! I rarely, if ever, seem to make anybody smile! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Thanks to you for mentioning it!<p>30 years is a long time. I married at 40 (first and only), and have only been married 3-1/2 years - of which almost 1 year we have been separated - so I can well remember life without my W. It was better. Still, I want to stay married. We have a magnificent child. When we got engaged, W said "at least it won't be boring". How prophetic!<p>Things are better - but still not good.<p>-AD

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>A councellor told me that I still have my memories and the happiness of years gone by but I feel that is wrong becos now I wonder IF any of it was real or happy? <hr></blockquote><p>Yes, certainly there were happy times and those times are a part of you. The fact that your H has changed and is now doing things to hurt his family is HIS weakness. Who he is is what has changed.<p>Please do not see his weakness as your failure. It is about HIM, HIM, HIM. I agree with Pepperband about letting him crawl out of this hole by himself.<p>I am going to put in a link to tossedwave's thread about respect. It's a good topic.<p>I'm going to give you an assignment, naej. Make a list of five things that make you worthy of respect. The assignment is due tomorrow. And yes, it's for a grade. (That's what the kids always ask [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] )<p>Respect<p>Check with you tomorrow,
Estes

WOW!!
Your asignment has certianly opened up a can of worms!!
Thoughts so far:- Yes I do desrve respect,as do my kids.
I am a truthful person(honesty matters to me intensly) one of biggest problem coping with this has been others dishonesty concerning situation)
Loyalty-I am intensly loyal.
(big problem for me has been coping with my in-laws disloyalty)Betrayed big time!
I deserved to be supported actively not just with pathetic notes saying I was in their thoughts and prayers!Siting on the fence has never been my way.
I stand up and am counted for things I believe in.
Yes I take the moral high ground_- maybe a fault?
Yes I fight against injustice-in all aspects of life not just relationships.
Yes I am a valued member of society.
I have principles that will not be compromised.
(I also accept that I will cut off my nose to spite my face)
---Read something about a man who spoke of his wife not supporting him when he corrected his kids?? on respect thread?
Realised I was a times guilty of that-used to say you earn respect from your kids. You do not have to sit in YOUR CHAIR becos you pay bills.
BIG REVALATION****
One of bigest problems in my situation has been my H choice of OW- Also WHO she was is the biggest problem for his kids.(who as in: her lifestyle/values/reputation etc)
Also the one point made by all those people who like us could not believe what H had done was WHO he did it with.
Penny has just dropped- H needs respect both in his professional life & personal.(I always referred to him as my honourable H.-he had values, his word was his bond!!)
When his company was taken over,he was offered a job by them, but a slightly sideways move-he was offended I guess- so he took another job that meant the living away week-days.(I expected to move with him-never entered by head not too-START of him ending our love/trust relationship)
He CHOSE the OW becos she could look up to him/respect him (even the person he was becoming.) She has no values re relationships/is selfish/could look you in the eye and lie through her teeth,
Is dishonest,conniving and a scheming tart.
Her H was M when she met him.
Was /is immoral.Was/is a poor/bad mother.Her own kids lives bare this out, they too lack morals/decency and values.<p>Problem now I have started along this train of thought is my bitterness at/with others.
I DO and DID not deserve to be treated in this way
I deserve answers from my H as to why he did this, without telling me why or my part in this if any.
I can no longer tell my kids that Dad does love them, its me he abandoned not them( they were told my a senior consultant that their Dad had chosen to abandon them as well as me when he chose to leave for this OW) A concious decision on his part.
He has proved this by not trying to contact them(excusing this to h/self by saying they (kids) don,t want to have anything to do with him and he's saving them more pain.BUT he does love and miss them!!(thought I believed this)His mother says this too!!
He said to them in the very beg, that he was so sorry for what he did BUT he cannot change things!!
Truth is He may be sorry BUT He does nopt want to change things- does not want to see what he has caused to happen to us all by his lies and desertion. Does not want to try to restore our M-
Is enjoying the NEW LIFE he chose,
Does not want to accept or see the truth about this OW he chose.(Said she had told him of her past-(maybe bits of it)He must have known of it anyway she was the Barmaid! with a reputation! he knew she was having an A with local MM for 5 yrs (even comforted the wife of said other MM!!!)before he took up the mantle.
This is so long and possible jumbled so I need to think loads more but as you see its a start.
Bottom line is always the LETTING GO.
Of the pain, betrayal, life we had,future I thought we'd have tog.
Grandparents I hoped we'd be.
The love and complete and utter trust I had for a man who has been part of my life for almost 50yrs
Be back....Nxx

Just reading what I had written, forgot to edit so lots of mistakes, hope you can understand what I am trying to say dispite the errors.
Spent the day in garden, feeling so very lonely, Still hate the weekends esp, Bank Holiday ones.
Do you ever get used to the loneliness?
My kids are all away doing their own thing-which is as it should be,I know my daughter feels that she should be with me on these holidays, but she has a partner and he has a family too,I must just get on with it.
Very weepy and missing my H.Soooooooooo much.
Even the garden is not giving me joy becos I know I am doing all this work for someone else to enjoy.18yrs in the making and I wouldn,t have had a second thought had my H said we've got to move, all our life I have just packed up and followed.
I did it gladly, willingly and now I am unable to even think about moving on my own, so I pretend it is not happening and one day I will wake up and it will all be OK.
Like a child who shuts his eyes and thinks that you can't see them. Except I am not a child. I am a grown up.
How I wish that I could just close my eyes and not see my world as it is now.
I am so tired of pretending that I will make it on my own, that my H will wake up and be the man he was again.
I am so tired of wearing a mask for the world, that says "yes I am fine and coping"
I am so tired of NOT talking about how I really feel,why shouldn,t people know just what THAT OW has done to me and my kids-maybe they then would not glibly say"these things happen"
My emotions are like the English weather-4 seasons in one day.
Sorry.
What is the point to doing a jig-saw when you know there is one peice missing?
N.xx

See, I knew you could do it. You even earned extra credit because you did more than the assignment called for! [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I wish you would go back to some of your earlier posts to compare then and now. I think you have grown a lot. Personally, I think you should print your list and tape it to the vanity mirror to read every day.<p>You know, when my daughter finally got to the point that she was ready to deal with why she always chose weak men with low character, she acknowledged that having someone like that made her feel superior. (She has a self-esteem issue.) Maybe that is what your H is doing. With OW being so LOW, H has nothing to live UP to when he is around her. <p>Perhaps it will help with the bitterness issue (which I have struggled with also) to think of those people as pathetic, misguided folks - a "Forgive them, for they know not what they do." type of thing. Plus, the biggest benefit of gradually letting go of the bitterness and resentment is that YOU will feel better having done so. You will be healthier for it. A book I read says you don't have to have success in this overnight. You are succeeding AS you are trying.<p>As you said, H is not contacting kids because he is ashamed, not because he is saving them pain. Fog talk.<p>Boy, I understand the "Grandparents I hoped we'd be." I had it all planned sitting out in the yard with S and DIL and all the grandkids, watching them grow and change. Doesn't look like there will be grandKIDS now. Sigh. <p>At times, I have these lapses in reality and allow myself to think about things as they might have been. Of course, it is going to hard letting go. If you think about it, it was only about three weeks ago that H's behavior joulted you into new realizations about your R. You have just opened the door to working on being on your own. The past year you were still pinning all you thoughts on this being a temporary thing. Now you know you cannot continue to stay in limbo. You have to heal yourself (even if H eventually leaves OW). You have to build yourself a comfortable emotional life, and you need to start for real today.<p>Next, assignment: Stop pretending, wearing a mask, and not talking about how you feel. Self-respect issue here. You deserve to say that it is hard learning to be on your own. You deserve to say, No, I'm not coping very well, thank you for asking. Take off that mask and be the real you. If you do not acknowledge an injury, you can't treat it and begin to heal. This is true for an emotional injury as well as physical. This is not to say you whine, mope, or seek sympathy - simply acknowledge the situation. <p>Gardening can be a good way to grieve. Last year at this time when the A was first coming to light, I spent hours in the yard weeding and sobbing. I just let the tears flow, didn't have to worry about how I looked, covered with dirt and clippings as I was. I really did a lot of blubbering, cried until there were no more tears, got lots of weeds pulled, too. Stop pretending. Let the hurt out.<p>I thought it was the Texas weather that produced 4 seasons in one day!!<p>The students' big end-of-year project is due Thursday. I will be grading 24/7 for a week. The projects are really good, but I dread the time it takes grading them. School is over for the kids on the 23rd. Friday the 24th is my last day until August. Yea!!<p>Estes