Hi as i expleined previously H leaves here in a few days & I leave a few days after that.
H will be staying in this district the "friend" also lives here her & her H have just seperated also. My question is I asked my H for no contact (plan B) once we leave here (he can see no wrong with the friendship & needs to be on his own to be happy after 27yrs marriage.<p>I haven't told him any of my plans he doesn't know I am going to our sons for 6 weeks to take some time & see where i should head from there.<p>I have been offered a job in the village that we currently live in & a house to rent but I have not shared this with him (some of my friends know)
If I suddenly turn up in the village will he see this as "following him" or checking up, he knows I love him & would like to give our marriage another go, friends reactions have been mixed to my return with concern as to how i will handle it if he "comes out" & is seen openly to b having a relationship with this "friend" others have said you need your friends around you at this time (when I go to my sons he will be at sea so i will be on my own, our son wanted me to go up to his place to get away as he is extremely worried about me. Any thoughts on this one...Also we have just sold our property & there is a chance he may need to "contact" me about stuff I asked him to either do it through the lawyers or my friend who would pass on the message.
If I did come back there is a very big chance he will be drinking at the same pub as me (there is only one here) what would i do in those situations. Say hello & leave it at that or don't say anything at all???<p>Would I be contradicting plan B by returning, my friends are all here, my family are all in the UK

Just Bumpin myself up!

You owe your H nothing. So do what you think is best for you. Don't worry about if it's a love buster for him. <p>It sounds like a very small village so only return if you think you have the fortitude to see him with another woman and if you think you can move on with your life.<p>As for plan B. The idea is to not meet any of his needs. You can do that even if you drink in the same pub.<p>If you are unsure, then open up as many opportunities for yourself as you can. While you are away, poke around for a job. Look for one in a village or town nearby the one you have been living in. With more opportunities available to you. The right choice will surface.

Just Bumpin myself up!

Thanks for that zorweb! I hope one day to be in the recovery position (that doesn't sound right does it? hee hee but ya get what i mean) The job is actually in the next village from where i would be living & his horse trekking will be in the village where i will be working (a tourist resort) but I feel "comfortable" here I know I can go out on my own & be "safe" I don't like big towns & would feel lost we have always lived in a rural area anyway thanx for your input I guess whatever happened I would always be faced with him being with another woman even if this one is just a friendship he's bound to find one sooner or later if he doesn't want me isn't he.
Sorry I bumped myself up twice not sure how i managed to do that! This is all so scarey for me!

I can understand how it can be scary. Remember that any time a void is opened opportunities rush to fill it.<p>When I divorced my XH I felt that I’d be alone for the rest of my life. I moved back to our hometown to be near family for support and more job opportunities. I was afraid that it would take me months to find a good job. I took a two-month break to get my son and I settled in. Then at the start of the third month I sent out 10 resumes in response to jobs posted in the newspaper. By the end of the week I’d gotten a request for an interview from every one of those. I got 6 job offers out of those interviews. The other four I let them know at the end of the interview that I was not interested in working for them. I don’t ever expect to have that much luck again. But it was so timely, what an ego boost just when I needed it. Then about 2 ½ years later, just when I was not looking and even more sure that I’d be alone forever, I met my new husband. So at 50 I remarried. This love is so much richer, so much more then I’d had before. (Don’t tell the young ones, but it gets better as we get older.)<p>Yes, we’ve had some problems because of his affairs. But that phase of his life if over and I found that he is indeed the wonderful man I thought he was when I married him. I’m so glad I am no longer with my XH. I’m so much happier with STL. <p>I’m telling you this as a pep talk. Things are going to go one way or the other. I hope you get what you want.. Your H back and a happy marriage with him. But if that does not happen, something very good will come and fill your life. I have no doubt about that. So fill your life with experiences and opportunities and the obvious right choice will come to light.

Thanks zorweb you are a treasure & I'm so pleased you are in a happy place. my first plan of ATTACK! when i leave here is to do some computer courses to keep myself occupied & my mind off other things as i will be spending a lot of time alone i feel that this is the best option at the present time (but as i am sure ya knwo when u r in this frame of mind you change your mind every 20 seconds) anyway it's a start I've been busy packing today have a crew of guys & their partners coming around to help me shift my stuff to storage H anounced he was going to see our son this weekend & then heading to the lawyers on Monday so i guess there will be some legal signing to b done soon. It's meant to be for the legal division of assets but i wonder if he will also organise the seperation papers while he's there. I will be gutted if he does but then it's his choice.<p>Zorweb have you had counselling with the Harleys?? I am considering it while i am going to be away I am sure it would help me a lot as i just feel so helpless. but how do they go about it when it's only one spouse that will be having counselling would be very interesting i am sure. It will cost about $360nz a session for me plus the phone call but then it's an investment in my future isn't it......

Sounds like you have a plan. That’s good. Do be ready for anything he does on Monday. Don’t react to it and don’t sign anything you are not ready to sign.<p>I’ve not had counseling with the Harley’s. From time to time people here post what happened in sessions with them. They seem to really know what they are doing. So yes it is a good investment. <p>They will tell you how to do go about things on your own right now. In the book “Divorce Busting”, Michele Weiner-Davis says that one person can change and/or save a marriage. It’s like dancing. If a couple is doing the waltz and one of them changes the steps to a tango, they are forced to change their dance. He, and your relationship with him, will have to change in relation to your change. When you think of it, that really is a large part of what Plan A does. <p>I suppose you cannot use their 800 line outside of the USA can you? Maybe you could use an Internet phone???? Don’t know.<p>STL and I keep talking about going to an MB weekend. It would be a great re-charge on MB principles. Have to wait for things to setting down with our kids. Maybe when they are 18, or 21 do you think? Na, sooner then that for sure since they are 12, 13, 14 right now.<p>Well, I’m off to bed. STL has been in San Francisco all week. He should be home in an hour or two. Want to get a catnap before he walks in. Will check in on you in the morning.

Hope ya had a good sleep! Zorweb regarding counselling with the Harleys, I can buy a phone card over here that can be used on any direct dial ph ie: my sons phone & it's very cheap rates for international calls.
I can't understand how a marriage can be turned around by one person tho when they aren't having any contact with each other at all
Hope that u & STL get on ya MB weekend I bet it would be awesome.
I think that the main problem with my H is that he is just soooooo very angry at everything & everybody & he feels that if he gets out now he will be happy for the rest of his life. We have at least been chatting a little this week about sorting stuff out but it got to the stage for a while there where it was better if neither of us said anything to the other. But I wrote him a note saying that i really didn't want to fight our last few days together. But I noticed yesterday that as he was leaving to go away he was getting angrier & angrier because my friend was here & he thinks we are discussing him, which we were discussing whats happened but he thinks by talking about the problem to people that i am putting him down. this friend that was here said to H when he came in "hi grumpy" now every one of my friends & his sisters call him that it's got nothing to do with me but he seems to think that i have told them he's grumpy it's actually a term of endearment they use but he doesn't get it they r only jokin but he thinks that they r serious his sister stayed here & gave him a wall plate that said something along the lines of me being nice & him being grumpy & it came up in something we were talking about the other day & he was soooo mad she had given it to him (this was about 2 yrs ago) but again it fell back on me it was my fault cause i must tell everyone how grumpy he is he doesn't realise that people can see for themselves when he's grumpy.
I know my biggest failure has been that he needs to be given confidence thru admiration or something like that I made a big mistake when he had the affair 11yrs ago, some timie later i said to him H i used to idolise the ground you walked on but not now & that must have hurt him a lot. I don't know how I can turn that sort of thing around cause he is such a stubborn guy.
Thats why he likes working with the horses he is very good at it, he gets lots of praise for it. I don't know the poor Harleys will wish they had never taken me on if i go to them.
Hey it just might b cheaper to fly over & get counselling eh now if only I could get my h on the plane as well we might get some action. Couldn't ya just picture this woman dragging her H up the road by his ear into the harleys office hee hee anyway enough of this now. I'm off to the pub AGAIN for another diet coke! & some company tis very lonely here! Cya

Just one other thing here I am feeling really mad at myself cause i know things need not have gone this far & I feel i am to blame.
last June I asked my H why he no longer told me he loved me he said because he didn't, that there had always been something missing in our marriage as you can imagine I TOTALLY FLIPPED OUT!<p>When I found out that my H no longer loved me I just found it soooo hard to lie in bed night after night knowing he wasn't asleep but was just lying there thinking his thoughts with his back always turned to me it was honestly like sleeping with a fridge.
Anyway my reaction to this was to vacate the bedroom (see i couldn't handle the rejection, had to get away) it was the worst move of my life cause my H has several times bought up the fact that the day I moved out of the bedroom was the day we seperated as far as he was concerned (this was about 5 or 6mths ago) a couple of times i tried to go & give him a cuddle in his room he said what do you think you are playing at. But it was OK for him when he had been drinking to come to my room & because I thought he was changing his mind about our situation & have S so i was very confused as probably was he or he was maybe just filling a need. But anyway this is something i "forgot" to mention to anyone & am now feeling so fed up & mad at myself because i feel that i gave him a way out of our marriage & he took it with both hands. But then again i guess it all had to come to a head cause i told him i couldn't live like that, ya know what it's like when u get hot headed in the heat of the moment & don't have the skills to cope anyway do you have any idea how i could turn this around in my favour or have i really c-----d it all up for us he is so cold & soooooo adament that it's finished, the other day he said to me you will never tell me what to do we aren't married any longer!!
Ok guess 2nite i'm havin a pity party with myself i just know this is all so stupid & has got out of hand & now I can't stop the ball rolling, If only I had found this site earlier things could have been very different, maybe they still could???

One moer question. Do I not have to sign the seperation papers then??? I am new at this game I guess i should ask my lawyers advise I go to see him on Friday.

Have you seen the separation papers? Read them and agree to them? If not then definitely do not sign them. Get a copy and take them to your attorney. Take some time to evaluate them and make sure they take care of your needs.<p>If you do not want the separation, you may be able to stall things a while.<p>Even if you have seen the papers before, I would not sign them at his attorney's office. Not till I read every word and make sure there were not 'surprises' added in after your last reading. My XH and his attorney were very good at this. It took forever for me to get a copy of the divorce papers I'd sign because every time I said ok to some changes, they'd have their runner deliver another copy for may signature and sure enough, they added/took out things. <p>So go slowly, have your attorney check out the papers.<p>Your H cannot force you to do anything any more then you can force him... remember that.

Hi Zorweb! Nope haven't seen any papers yet regarding seperation or otherwise H has his first visit to his Lawyer today & I have my first visit on Friday this week, our lawyers are a 5hr drive away so I don't want to have too much driving back & forth.
I don't know whether he will be asking for his lawyer to do the seperation. I did ask him about it once a while ago & he said "as far as I am concerned we seperated the day you moved out of the bedroom, the only reason we need a seperation is if you want to re marry in 2yrs time, I am never getting married again!" So I guess I just wait & see what happens.
Yetsterday was awful, all my furniture was shifted out of here, & all last night I kept dreaming about H & when i was awake if i heard a vehicle coming along the road i thought this is it he's coming back & has changed his mind about the lawyers but nope he is still away so I guess todays the day. Well not much more to add.
Oh just one more question...it's H birthday on 12th May should I just ignore it or should i get him a gift/card etc not sure what to do as he could b moved out by then.???any ideas

Well, again, don’t sign any separation papers until you and your attorney (preferably a divorce attorney) have had the time to look them over. <p>As for the distance to your lawyers’ offices, don’t forget that most things can be done either over the telephone, via fax and by mail. I have had many telephone appointments with my lawyer because I don’t want to waste the time on the drive when I’m really busy.<p>You’re H’s thing about “"as far as I am concerned we separated the day you moved out of the bedroom” is his way of trying to hurt you. You could just as easily tell him that he started the slippery slide to this the day he started sleeping with his back to you or the day he stated his relationship with the OW. I’m not as nice as you are, I would have already thrown that at him. I would also point out to him that he is childishly pointing his finger at you for a situation that you hardly hold all the blame for. But that’s me. <p>It seems that he may not ask for a legal separation. Which would mean that you could pursue this on your own time. I would not be sure that I would want to remain married to a man I had little contact with. The reasons are legal and financial. He could get in debt and I’d be legally responsible for paying the debt. Do think of protecting yourself.<p>I’m a little confused.. are you in Plan B? If so, then you should not acknowledge his birthday in anyway. If you are not, then you could send him a card. If you send a card, stay away from anything that sounds mushy or how much you miss him. Make it a fun card.<p>I’ll be back in a bit and respond to some of the questions you had in your other posts. We were pretty busy yesterday and today. STL flew out for Princeton, NJ this afternoon. So I wanted to spend as much time as I could with him. His teach schedule is very full for April and May… he’s been traveling every week. I get tired of him being gone. But we try to do the MB thing of getting as much time together as we can.. on the phone when he’s out of town and together when he’s here. It seems to work. Now I have to track down our daughter. She’s the only one home this weekend and she has not been here. Has been with a friend since Friday after school. <p>Anyway, enough about me. I’ll be back in a bit.

Hi Zorweb! I have been in town today so was not on the computer when you left ya message. Hope you & STL Managed to get some time together he sounds like a busy guy. I just so wish my H
would get on here & talk to some other WS for some suggestions I know he feels really bad about things & about whats happening here but because he keeps them all to himself they probably just build up. Trouble is one of his biggest "things" about me that anoys him is that he says i am always right or always have to be right but I didn't know that was how he saw me so how could i fix it.I just had it in my head that this friendship was wrong they didn't think it was so carried it on & it's all snowballed from there. They were deffinately spending too much time with one another & have both admited that they were
always ringing each other up etc etc & I guess it just did my head in.
I decided on no contact after i have left here next week because i was finding it so hard living in this situation,the last 8 months I couldn't plan A very well as the stress just got to me so now he can only see me as someone he has to get away from, he wanted us to remain friends but I can't do that it would break my heart, but then i think it would also have given me a chance to plan A from a distance I am just so in love with this guy! it's not funny...
I am sure that if someone in his shoes could chat with him ie: someone who has had an affair been there knows what it feels like he might swing back round but i just don't know how to go about it he seems to think that everyone has it in for him & is suspicious of everyone.<p>I decided on no contact after i have left here next week because i was finding it so hard living in this situation & I told him this well actually gave him a letter, not sure now whether I did the right thing there or not but I have to protect the love i have left for him & if this "friend" could come between our marriage & he still has contact with her I can't cope with that. I can't see him ever changing his mind because he thinks it's OK to have a friendship & that I should trust him. I think i have been way too nice but then ya see thats my nature. I knew when he had his first afair 11yrs ago that if i had spoken up about what was bothering me then (that he was spending too much time helping & being "friends" with this girl that I would have been in exactly the same position then as i find myself in now.<p>All our coversations we have with each other nowadays are in regard to our going our seperate ways he cannot see it any other way & I know he won't miss me when i am gone as he will have his friends around him & the trekking guide will (well already is) be doing the job that I have been doing with the horse trekking (administration, promotion etc) I just don't know where to go from here I feel so lonely at the moment & the days till i leave are ticking by so fast.

Do you thihk it would be "safe" for me to leave a copy of the letter Trueheart posted for my H to read.
I don't want him to think i am bugging him tho I do think that one of the "keys" to this is in getting him to see that he's not alone as he probably thinks he is. I really don't think taht the first affair 11yrs ago was delat with properly by either of us & we have spent the last 11yrs destroying each other.
I know he has felt really bad & guilty about what he did & I know i didn't let him forget it either because I didn't know how to "fix" it.
I am afraid I am one of those rather impulsive people & also one who always wants answers to question NOW! which is something that also bugs him. I just can't get over the you know we can never live together thing he has.

You are going to Plan B then. But I think that you may have more interaction with him then in a normal Plan B. Seems that you will more then likely run into your H since you will be living in the same village. So when that happens your interactions should follow Plan A and completely avoid relationship talks. Even now, while you are still interacting with him for the move, do these things. He will also see you pursing your own life. You will be changing and become more of your own person. This too can make you more attractive to him. <p>I’ve been thinking about your questions about how do you get a marriage to turn around by one person when they aren’t having any contact. It made me realize something about my separation from my EX-H. When I left my H, I had no love left for him. I despised him and was afraid of him. He had asked for a divorce and I was more then happy to give it to him. After I’d moved back into our old home (We’d kept it as a rental for a few years to I asked the tenants to leave so I could use it.), after a few weeks had gone by my then H started coming around. He started hanging paintings for me, cleaning the yard, and so on. This went one for two or three weeks. I finally got so annoyed that I told him to leave and not come back again with out my express invitation. Then about 4 months later, after I had my new job and was doing quite well with moving on with my life, he started to show up again. He was saying things like “You are doing very well.” He was complementing me, etc. He’d noticed the changes in me. I, being a smart mouth, looked at him and said “Of course I’m doing well. You expected something less of me?” Looking back I realize that either of these two times was actually a chance I had to start Plan A’ing him like crazy. I think he was out of the fog at that point and wanting to work things out. It was his way of testing the waters. The problem was that I’d left him too late… by the time I left him is had less then no love left for him. In the end, he did not file for divorce. Months after I left, I filed. At that point the last thing I wanted was for us to get back together.<p>But you are in a different boat. You still love your H. Go about your life, Plan A him when you see him. Become a better you. Develop and pursue your own interests. Then, as I’ve said before, one of two things will happen. Either he will start noticing the new you and have renewed interest in you or you will find a wonderful life that you cannot even imagine today. Just have your eyes open for any small chances, any small openings your H may give you.<p>Whatever you do, stop beating yourself up for not being perfect, for doing things in a way that helped your marriage fall apart. You have done what most people do.. you muddled through. Relationships are a big unknown. Who has ever been handed a road map on how to have a guaranteed perfect relationship? Not you, nor I, nor anyone else. We stumble through trying to make it work. We take very flawed advice from friends and family who are really doing no better. I recall that the one of the Harleys said that it’s very hard to Plan A a spouse who is still involved in an affair. That most people cannot last two weeks. <p>In resent years there have been more and more books written, such as the MB material that can impart great wisdom on us. But for most of us it comes too late. I actually owned the book ‘Divorce Busting” about 4 years before my previous marriage broke up. But I never read it. I got so tired of reading things and trying to get him to work on our marriage that I stopped reading books on the subject. Yet, now I find that it is probably the one book that would have helped me save that marriage. I only found the MB material last year. And it’s been a God sent. It has saved my new marriage. And now I am finally reading “Divorce Busting” and the rest of her books. I find that they work very well with the MB material. Wish I’d had all of this as a course in high school or college.<p>You did the best you could with what you had to work with. Now, in the future, you will have more to work with.

As for you leaving a copy of Trueheart’s letter… since Plan B has not really started, it might be a good way to draw a line in the sand. <p>I read the following today and wanted to share it with you. It’s something else that I could see you giving your H.<p>____________
“When wronged by those we love, we seem to devalue years of a relationship – a relationship that may have brought us many joys and which required much intellectual and emotional energy to have lasted so long. Still, with a single harsh statement, a thoughtless act, an unfeeling criticism, we are capable of destroying even the closest of our relationships. We quickly forget the good and set out to rationalize scenarios of hate. We do this rather then take up the challenge of honest evaluation and confrontation. We ignore the possibility that in the act of forgiving and showing compassion we are very likely to discover new depths in ourselves and new possibilities for relating in the future. We are too proud. We engage rather in self-defeating activities which keep us from forgiving; beliefs that if we withdraw and run from the situation we will hurt the other and absence will heal us; the fantasy that in avoidance and condemning we will be made to feel better. We fail to realize that when we refuse to engage in forgiving behaviors, it is we who assume the useless weight of hate, pain and vengeance which is never ending, and instead, weights upon us rather then the wrongdoer. (Buscaglia, 984, pp. 96-97)

Zorweb have Just sent u an email!