Big time! If you had asked me a few days ago I would have said we were on the road to recovery (YEAH) but this weekend I blew it - On sunday I we were working around the house/yard and I was watching my WH work on the waverunners - I just keep thinking to myself - "I wonder how he's feeling?" We have been doing good (at least in my eyes) we are both in counseling, he just go on anti-D's about 2 weeks ago, he's not seeing OW, calling if he's going to be late, spending time together...and we both seemed to be happier but no I cant be happy with that - SO I ask him "so do you still wish you had moved out?" his answer - sometimes, and of course I couldnt leave it at that - So we go into the whole discussion - on how he doesnt tell me anything so I have to ask these questions - in general he tells me that he loves me but he still isnt "in-love" with me and that he is just tired of living a lie trying to be happy when he's not - that he doesnt worry about me because he knows I will be fine with or without him that this whole things is about him and what he wants but he doesnt know what he wants right now and when he figures it out I will be the first to know. and I just cant leave it at that I keep pushing - I want to know how it could be that he is the one who cheated but yet it seems like I'm the one who is trying to make it up to him, like I'm the one who did something wrong, isnt he sorry at all - and his answer... No - he doesnt regret the time he spent with here at all... he does feel a "little" guilt but he's not sorry!!! So at this point I go back into the house - Cry for about 10 minutes and then pull myself together and start making dinner - He comes into the house a few minutes later and I'm just kind of quite - so about 1/2 hour later he comes upto me and asks "so.. is this how your going to act all night?" I ask "like what" his answer "all sad and quite - this is why I dont talk to you about these things - I know your not going to like the answers and you know it just pisses me off when you act like this" I said "i'm sorry if I'm a little sad but you need to give me a few minutes to recover - and how did he exspect me to act?" He asks me why do I want to have these conversations I know they just make him mad and that most of the time he just doesnt think about our sistuation and that I need to accept things the way they are - that he doesnt have a master plan and is just trying to figure out what will make him happy....<p>Ok - so I tell him I'm sorry and that he is right - I dont know why I start these conversations I know I'm not going to get the answers I want.... The rest of the night was ok (I guess) we both pretend like nothing happen and the sadest part of all this is that I actually feel like I didnt something wrong - wanting to know where his mind is .... and I'm now worried that I've made things worse...<p>any suggestions on how to improve this?

Help.....

Hello Rdvpmm:<p>i don't know if this will help but here goes. with my ww and i, i have figured out that me bringing things up doesn't ever turn out good. my ww like your wh feels like i am constantly pushing. i too feel like why am i trying so hard when i am not the one who had the a. ww should be trying to do anything and everything to make our m better. believe me that doesn't happen. if things go "well" without m talk. go with it. don't let your guard down and beware of suspicious behaviors and you'll know if wh is continuing contact or if something is not right. i know everytime my ww is continue contact with om. don't ask me how i know, i just do. the advice i always got was work on yourself. i believe this works. don't be so needy or appear needy. if you have children spend time with them. go out with friends for lunch, take up exercising, something to work on you and give you time alone to think. <p>also one important thing i learned, no matter what you cannot make ws do anything, say anything, or feel anything. ws have to make those choices on their own, if we push we do push them away.<p>keep your faith and hope. have a good day!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>hopenden

Thanks - Its encouraging to get your advice - My friends just think I should get stronger and kick his butt out - that he is going to continue to fence sit until I do something about it - I dont want to do this but maybe it would make him make a decision - How long do our WS expect us to stay in these relationships where they point blank tell us - I dont love you!

Wow... why are you guys still together if he is telling you he doesn't love you? He expects you to wait around while he decides? [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]

rdvpmm- Hi - you answere a reply to one of my questions a couple of months ago - you said that our husbands could be brothers and I have got to tell you are correct... Oh my god.. I have been living the same way as you since about October always thinking that I am doing something wrong - when he is the one who is moping around and I am always trying to fix everything... Even though he tells me repeatedly that he doesn't love me right now that it is over - but he loves me but he isn't in love with me right now.. the other woman is out of his life but recently he had a questionable incident with the lady next door - they were talking in private supposedly about our situation.. Only more for me to deal with.. Anyways I guess I just don't have advice but I can tell you what we are doing.. he goes from wanting a divorce to I am not sure what I will want in three months or in three days.. Like you everyone thinks I am an idiot for trying to put things back together .. asking why is he still there etc.. I also have two girls ages 9 and 12.. Anyways right now - he has left my house I am giving it 3 months for him to come around or it is gonna be over.. Someone here told me I need to confusion to go and like you I can't be satisfied with him walking around and me not getting answers.. So I am not going to talk to him probably the hardest thing I am ever going to live through.. But now I need to see if I can live without him... Anyways I don't have any great advice but I know what it is like to need to talk to someone who is living with the same stuff so if you want you can email mimiw64@yahoo.com and we can compare war stories and I can let you know how the day to day without the husband is going etc... Good luck.. Hope to hear from you.

Your d-day was in February? This is very normal... I could have posted your post... in fact I posted several like this ALL SUMMER and INTO the fall... <p>In January of this year we were still having these kinds of talks.... and I WAS ALWAYS THE ONE WHO INITIATED THEM...<p>I know it is hard... but it wasn't until I took focus off of H and put it onto me... really put a PLAN into effect that H had the 'space' to figure things out. <p>Are you reading any books for YOU... "The Four Agreements," (don Miguel Ruiz) "The Language of Letting Go," Melodie Beatty) "The Dance of Intimacy," (Harriet Lerner)... EXCELLENT BOOKS and authors... <p>Cali

It does "blow ones mind", that the WS, in my case (WH)is the one turning our world upside down, tearing my heart apart, my life, and shredding it "Inch by inch", and we're not suppose to express our pain, while they make up their minds about something they "SHOULD NOT HAVE STEPPED OFF INTO IN THE FIRST PALCE".....How would they feel if tables were turned?<p>Like we're not confused and crushed as well????<p>Someone needs to CLARIFY that part in the vows: "FORSAKING ALL OTHERS".........<p>GOD HAS A REASON FOR THAT and all of us here understand his reasoning don't we?<p>My "WH" has told me nothing of his feelings for the "OW" , he hasn't even admitted it's an "A"...."just something going on"......Well this "something" has been 3 years now. Yet he telss me over the last few months that he loves me, misses me, keep dreaming and etc., let's me believe that she isn't in the picture and "wham" I find out last month she is....course he passes it off as a "rumor", goes off on me how he is sick and tired of me jumping him about everything I hear from every "Tom, [censored] and Harry"????<p>Now I am alienated and cut out of his life again??? What happened to the last 1 1/2 years that he led me to believe we were re-building? What about that 4/8/02 voice mail that he left me "I Love You", then I find out 1 week later about continued contact, specifically (March) and now I'm the one "punished"......<p>How does someone change gears like that?? I love you this week but if you stick your nose in my business and find out that "OW" is still in my life than "out ya go"? Just forget that I didn't go looking for it...<p>"OH YEH"....gee I forgot....I sat down at the computer, turned it on, loaded e-mail and said: "GEE, someone tear my world apart"......than have to go report for duty an hour later with heart ripped apart and cannot reach "WH" by phone......... NO wonder I Love busted all over the place and now 12 days later still cut out of his life and have no idea where he's at..... I'm just a wife.....not suppose to love, worry, hurt.........."character flaws I guess"<p>Sorry for the "sarcasim", bad night on duty, lonely and frustrated. "Affairs" are so damned "SELFISH AND SELF-CENTERED"!

Oh yeh, question?<p>Am I suppose to come home every morning from work and be "Thankful" that he hasn't come through the night and cleaned the rest of his stuff out?<p>Am I suppose to be grateful when i pick up the mail and breath a sigh of relief that his mail is still coming here?<p>Am I suppose to be "Thankful" that even though "I LB all over the place, screamed divorce and that if he didn't "get rid of her", I swore I would drag her right into the middle of court", that he hasn't said "I want a divorce"? Be thankful that I just get "cut out of his life"?<p>Well.......for now I am "THANKFUL".<p>He should be "Counting his lucky stars that I still love him and want him......and will do whatever it takes as long as he ends it with her and meets me half way".....<p>Wouldn't the "OW" be thankful if I just packed all his stuff...drove over 100 miles to dump it right at her door......better yet.....have "HER" served his copy of "OUR" divorce papers......<p>Cold day in He** "OW".............<p>Now I FEEL BETTER.....breathing, getting calmer, getting calmer.....(((((HUGS & SMILES)))))

Ok - lets just go with WS's suck! <p>MAW64 -
Its scary how much our WH's sound alike - I asked mine again yesterday "If I make you so unhappy why dont you just leave?" his answer - I dont know what I want - He actually said he doesnt really think about our problems anymore and that he is taking things one day at a time, my question? HOW? <p>I never stop thinking about it - am I doing this wrong or right - If I do this will he get mad - Afraid to ask this questions just because I know he wont like it -The list is never ending.... Money is a big issue with us, we are just making it together so if he leaves what the heck am I going to do... I applied for a second job this weekend and told him I was doing it because I needed to make sure I can take care of the house (a rental) and the kids by myself. Oh... I know I will get child support from him but not enough to meet all the bills....He was not happy with me wanting this other job - Said that it was Him that should be getting another one - When I asked why he said because it was his responsibility to take care of us... Like I can depend on that(yeah right) <p>I asked him "what am I doing wrong? What can we change - what can we work on - and he actually told me that it wasnt me - my question was "how can it not be me - its me you want to leave?" <p>We didnt ask for this but somehow we have ended up in the middle of a nightmare that just wont end - I almost feel like I would be better off if he did leave at least that way I could go on with my life - I would be in control (at least a little bit) but I think he wants me to be the bad guy - Kick him out that way he wont feel as quilty leaving me and the girls - He actually offered to let me move out and him keep the house and the girls(yeah right like thats going to happen) he would be begging me to come home in a week (not a bad idea but I dont want to keep him that way..do I?)<p>I think my plan of action at this point is to just let him be... I will go on with my life like he doesnt matter - If he's home great - Dinner will be ready - IF I have plans and he wants to come great - IF not oh well.. his loss. I have been letting him walk all over me.. Doing everything and anything to please him almost to the point where I cant even stand myself.. Its really sad...<p>He has reserve duty May 31 - June 14 - Maybe it will be good, he will get his chance to be away and I will get my chance to prove that I dont need him but want him...<p>I will get the recomended books this week - Can't hurt - I'm willing to try anything at this point to just stop some of the pain.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>He should be "Counting his lucky stars that I still love him and want him......and will do whatever it takes as long as he ends it with her and meets me half way"..... <hr></blockquote><p>They should feel lucky - Mine has asked me why I still love him and to be honest I dont have clue - All I know is that I do....I wish I could come up with an answer it might make it easier to understand why I keep holding on.....

rdvpmm,<p>I know EXACTLY what you mean. I cannot tell you at this point why "I still love my WH".....only that I know I still do and more than life itself. Nor can I give up on him......not yet....

- my question was "how can it not be me - its me you want to leave?" <p>It's NOT YOU!<p>It's NOT YOU!<p>He wants to leave the REFLECTION of himself that he THINKS he sees in YOU.<p>He's escaping himself. <p>I didn't GET this until I started to notice that I could say 100 GREAT things about my H, but he only heard the ONE negative thing... and focused on THAT... because that's what HE BELIEVED about himself...<p>See... it IS NOT ABOUT YOU.... NOT... NOT... NOT...<p>I quit asking my H to work on US and started asking him to WORK ON HIMSELF... and then gave him the space to do it...<p>Hugs,
Cali

Cali - <p>Your right - I know deep inside its not me.. I have proven to him time and time agian that I'm 100% committed to making this M work but its not enough - He has said (and maybe I need to listen) that he needs to fix himself before he can fix us... I'm an easy target for him to take thing out on because he knows I'm not going anywhere... He has actually said that he doesnt know if he has ever been happy and he needs to find what makes him happy.... Unfortunatley I dont think he is going to find "something" he needs to make himself happy and only he can do that... I guess this is one of those things that is easier said than done - I know I need to give him the space and time he needs to "find himself" but its so much harder than it sounds... I have to find the strenght in myself to let him go and hope he comes back.

I noticed you mentioned counseling in post... is it couples... individual... both?<p>Also keep in mind that withdrawal is approx. 4 months from last contact... and I can affirm that as each month passes... WS gets more approachable and able to talk...<p>Finally, I think you need to do a SOLID, plan A for about six months... then the conversations are not so emotion-filled and raw.<p>My H and I are a year past d-day and only 3 months into TOTAL no contact... we are JUST now able to talk calmly and rationally about stuff...<p>Cali

rdvpmm- My husband has also said all of those things that it is him that he the one with the problems - that he knows he is putting me through hell - yet he deserves to be happy.. I think you know he had a girlfriend and had that new and exciting feeling and he is totally screwed up because of it but he won't admit it - most of his attitude has been I did it, I admitted it now get over it.. But he also doesn't want to live with me harping on him all of the time and not trusting him.. He also knows that I don't want him to leave and I have done everything under the sun to make this work... I have tried the plan of action to just let it be and I could not do it- for only about 2 hours I have to know what is going on, what I did wrong what can I do to make it better when all of the time knowing that he has the problem - but I get so twisted.... he has me thinking that it is me... Most of the time.. But Cali is right it is not you or us it is them.... We also have a money issue - I would or will have to sell my house and pay off all bills and go on which is one of the things that is scaring me to death.. Again if you need to email feel free mimiw64@yahoo.com - Our situations are so much alike it is scary... Good Luck...

We are both in Individual counseling but mine wants my WH to come with me this week - I asked him and his response "what good is it going to do" ahhh... such frustration... He says that there is NC with OW - I actually asked him yesterday how she was and his answer - He didnt know - They work in different areas and they dont talk - I told him that I didnt believe him but he swore that they never talk...

rdvpmm- My husband has also said all of those things that it is him that he the one with the problems - that he knows he is putting me through hell - yet he deserves to be happy.. I think you know he had a girlfriend and had that new and exciting feeling and he is totally screwed up because of it but he won't admit it - most of his attitude has been I did it, I admitted it now get over it.. But he also doesn't want to live with me harping on him all of the time and not trusting him.. He also knows that I don't want him to leave and I have done everything under the sun to make this work... I have tried the plan of action to just let it be and I could not do it- for only about 2 hours I have to know what is going on, what I did wrong what can I do to make it better when all of the time knowing that he has the problem - but I get so twisted.... he has me thinking that it is me... Most of the time.. But Cali is right it is not you or us it is them.... We also have a money issue - I would or will have to sell my house and pay off all bills and go on which is one of the things that is scaring me to death.. Again if you need to email feel free mimiw64@yahoo.com - Our situations are so much alike it is scary... Good Luck...

MAW - <p>It is weird how much our stories sound alike - <p>How did we get to this point - I married this man 10 years ago and weve had good and bad times but I always trusted him and knew that no matter what he would be there for me - Its like he is a completely different person now - Someone who I dont really want to know.. I just keep hoping that the man I know him to be and that he was comes back... Wishful thinking at this point.<p>If you want to email me my address is JUbil@rwd.com with IM on AOL RDVPMM - I'm on-line all day M-F from 7:30 - 4:15.<p>J [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Cali,<p>I it's me (). I have a question..<p>How bad did i blow this? We seperated 3 years ago last month and my "WH" got involved with "OW". For the last 1 1/2 years he led me to believe she was out of our lives. He even began to tell me that he loved me, missed me, for me to keep dreaming and etc. I LB bad when i was informed by (sources) last month, that he made contact with "OW" in March/02.<p>I got this 1 hour before having to go to work by e-mail. i tried to call him and got voice mail and answering machine. I went off the deep end, cried, threatend divorce, even to drag her right in the middle of court if he didn't get rid of her.<p>Well he is acting like I am just believing rumors and he's Mr. innocent. Last night I was told it has been going on with "OW" all along (3 years), same length as our seperation.<p>WH lost his job a few days after we got into it. When i asked him what he was going to do....he responded "Just let me work this out, ok". Don't know if that was job-wise or everything in general. I shut up and simply said "Ok", I love you and I'm here if you need me. 3 days later he calls, irrate, tells me that he is sick of everyone's nose stuck in his business and he wasn't telling me where he was at. I asked him quietly and calmly: "Not even our wife" and he stated: "NO, not even you". Said he had 2 job interviews and didn't have time for this "Bul***" and hung up. It has been 12 days today, no contact and i don't know where he is. I suspect "OW" but haven't checked and not going to.<p>How can they switch gears like that? One week "I love you" and next week......chopped out of their life" for something 'they did".....<p>He has not said anything about a divorce. <p>Did I "blow it" for good? Why did he "CUT ME OUT OF HIS LIFE"? He can hurt and get mad but I can't?<p>
He also was staying in company apt. (unless that was a lie) so he had to find somewhere to stay as weel and return company cell phone. Truck problems too. He in city about 150 miles from home. "OW" is about 80 miles from city.<p>Help...Idea's...feeling?<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Tempest ]</p>