I dont have the answers Cali might but I just wanted to let you know that I will keep my fingers crossed for you - I'm not sure If in your sistuation that I would have handled things any differently - Its hard to have proof of the A and not do anything about it - I know its a Major LB but were only human and cant let them walk all over us - We are NOT doormats!<p>If they love us there is no way they should be treating us this way - Even if they arnt "in-love" with us right now - They should respect us enough to not lie and use our emotions to get away with treating us like ****!<p>Stay strong and remember if you have made it 3 years your doing good - and if he does love you he will comeback.

Didn't know if this was clear or not. We have been seperated 3 years last month and living apart every since. However had contact all through the 3 years with last 1 1/2 going really good except i was getting annoyed with us still living apart. He said that it was because of his job not being real secure and him not getting located. Apaarently he was telling truth there as he lost his job 12 days ago, But it could have been nice cover to have "OW" and me. <p>The way he just totally disrespected me as his wife and "CUT ME OFF".......

BetrayedAgain...
I will answer you in JFO, on the thread I started for you... <p>??? Ok... thread is not there... so I will start a new one in GQ... or answer you in one you have started... I wasn't on much this weekend...<p>Hugs,
Cali<p>[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: Cali ]</p>

rdvpmm - I have been with my husband for 19 years we will be married 15 in August and he is doing everything the same as yours - not about you about me etc... Never shown any great remorse etc... actually you should go to recovery and read the thread fence sitter experience needed - sadprincess wrote it about me and I got some good advice - that is why I am at the 3 month seperation thing - I will email you and give you my story and we can compare....

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by rdvpmm:
<strong> because he knows I'm not going anywhere....</strong><hr></blockquote><p>IMO, this is part of the problem. As long as he thinks you're a sure thing, he can take his time and indulge himself no end in whatever ways he wishes. If you continue to give him the impression that he has a blank check to LB you and that his account in your Love Bank can never be overdrawn, then he has no incentive to stop the LB withdrawals and make the EN deposits. You also said he had no plan, so that is a big problem, too, but you cannot give him a plan and make him work it.<p>What you can do is give yourself a plan and work it. The first step is to accept where he is right now. He is not committed to you and the M. He is not "in love" with you. He is not remorseful. He has no empathy. He is refusing to take responsibility for the fallout (your sorrow, etc.) from his A. Now, be honest with yourself. How long do you think it will take for these LBs to drain his account in your LB$? Do you recognize that it WILL happen eventually? Does he? It is okay to explain the basic concepts to him.<p>IMO, it is better to stress your commonality than your differences. You may not have had an A yet, but Dr. Harley says we are all wired that way. If you give him the impression that you have some invulnerability that he obviously doesn't have, that also can make him feel that you are making a disrespectful judgment--another LB. It is important for both spouses to understand the vulnerability of both spouses.<p>If you follow a plan, you can give him the "space" he thinks he needs, but with a good plan (Plan A), that space is limited. Because of that, you can relax and stop pursuing him and expecting from him what he isn't offering and all those behaviors that LB him. He will be LBing you, no doubt, because of all the things I mentioned above about his general attitude.<p>One of the goals of Plan A is to provide an environment for the WS to make an informed decision about committing to the M by the BS demonstrating his/her willingness to follow the rules of care and protection.<p>You can stop doing those things because with Plan A/Plan B, relief is coming. There are only two possible outcomes with the MB plan--either the WS starts doing the work of recovery, or the BS goes to Plan B. Either way, the BS will no longer have to endure the constant LBs. We can usually do something difficult if we know we only have to do it for a limited period of time. Think of the 12-step program motto of "one day at a time". It is daunting to face having to do something painful or unpleasant for a lifetime, but we can usually handle doing it for a day.<p>A specific plan helps you to do this. After you accept that your H is who he currently is, then you can look at yourself and your Plan A. The first step of Plan A is to avoid LBs--have you been doing that? What grade would you give yourself? Work on that until you are satisfied that you have that under control.<p>When that is accomplished, the next step is to determine your H's ENs and which ones he will allow you to meet, then work at becoming an expert on meeting those.<p>With all of this, it helps to start with the most severe and get that under control first. Reading Dr. Harley's books is a great help with strategizing which areas to tackle first. Even though they cover the same basic concepts, they each have a different approach and descriptions, examples, etc. I have been able to learn and understand something better with each book I read.<p>So, in summary:<p>

• Accept that your H is where he is and that you can only control your thoughts, feelings, actions, and reactions.
• Recognize and accept the limited scope of your choices: Remain in the M without a plan; remain in the M with a plan; separate and/or divorce. Marital recovery is not a choice currently available to you because of your H's choice to not follow a plan for marital recovery.
• If you choose to follow Plan A, begin immediately by avoiding the LBs that make the biggest withdrawals from your H's Love Bank.
• While you're working on the first step of Plan A--avoiding the worst LBs--read the MB and other helpful books and materials (highly recommend The Divorce Remedy and Passionate Marriage for your type of situation) to enable you to develop your best Plan A strategy.
• Based upon your evaluation of how well your recent behavior falls within the guidelines for a good Plan A, set a date in the future (the usual recommendation is a 6-month Plan A) when you plan to evaluate and decide if Plan B is your next step.
• Reassure yourself whenever you need to with the light at the end of the tunnel (your Plan A/Plan B evaluation date) and any progress you may see in your H's responses to your Plan A. And remember that at any time along this timeline your H could decide to join you and you can begin the work of marital recovery, so the date you set is the longest it will take to obtain relief from your H's LBs. During particularly agonizing times, you may need to set interim dates for re-evaluation, such next week, or even tomorrow! Sometimes I was able to get through the worst of it by constantly reminding myself I didn't have to endure it for even one more day. Then I was able to make it through that day and find that the next one was better.
• Put your trust in yourself and your plan so you do not need to agonize about the future and what your H may or may not do.

<p>[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

thank you ---<p>I have been trying to do a Plan A but obviously not very successfully. I know his needs - most inportant is the Physical attractivness - and Ihave been working hard to lose weight (30pds in 4 mths) and goto the gym - he is a big gym freak. He takes everything I give him and I know I have been building Points but of course I go and lose a ton by asking questions that I already knew the answers too but just had to ask on the hopes that the answeres were different....<p>I made a decision today that I was going to start worring about myself first and if he follows along then great but if not well then I will just have to deal with it - I'm a happy person ususlly and to be honest I'm tired of being sad and crying all the time... Its not healthy for me or the children.

Hi, I have been reading this thread and feel drawn into it... as I did good plan a .only for a while.. then started up with my questions.. pursuing and constant nagging for counseling and working things out... etc... guess what it is totally not working... I am too trying to work on me and focus on me... like cali sd... it will take a while for the ws to be able to rationallty talk about the a... my h is still in fog.. sad but true.. he is still not over ow number 1 and he is now involved with another woman ... although I think he is using her.. he is alcoholic and giong down fast.<p>So, I have to focus on me.. take my advice that it has failed miserably and driven my h back away... my questioning and insistance that he work on the marriage.. while I did the no lb's etc.. we did grow closer and work on getting along better etc... it made me mad.. after I got noghting back.. and I could not make myself go to plan b.. since I am addicted to the man and trying to figure out a way to make him come home... well it does not work... <p>let go.. let them figure themselves out.. we do not wnat uncommitted husbands anyway,,,, let them see how wonderful we are and how we are improving our lives.. and what are they doing? ok?<p>I will ck on you as I am in the same boat... thought my d day was in sept 2001... I had good luck with plan a but have had difficulting implementing it again or staying on track.... I have lb'ed all over the place.. yet there is still chance for reconciliation... I hate that my h acts as if marriage problems are my fault and he is not in love with me for now.. it is awful.<p>Hugs to you, I have to get ready for bed.. up late.. on computer! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>hugs, honey

It amazes me the amount of people in the same sistuation - You almost feel like your all alone in this but unfortunatley I'm not - This is a pain I wouldnt wish on anyone - somedays I almost wish he would make up his mind either way - Either work with me or get the heck out, its like they want to bring us down with them and its just not fair!<p>I have been plan A'ing but then like Honey said - I cant live without getting anything back in return - and you know what - Our WS's know we love them and the know we will do anything to make these marriages work and they are taking advantage of that knowledge, Plan A is one thing but letting them walk all over us is another - We deserve better!!!! Gee dont I talk strong this morning but you know that as soon as my WS wants something of course I'm going to do it - This sucks!

plan a also means taking care of you... I have learned that.. and when I take care of me in my plan a.. it is harder for me to get so angry or wish for results... etc. Expect no resutls period... just do your best... and decide to let go of him and what he will or won't do... for now our h's are insane ok? just think of them like a sick child that we would take crap from and just be nicey nicey nice all day long? right? I would not blow or lb my kids.. regardless of what they did to me... well, maybe a little but not like I would my h... so, anyway... sometimes... (I learned this idea in alanon) imagine your h behind the bars of a window in an insane assylum saying and doing all these nutty mean things to you) OK? this is hard, and also hard not to tell him you are imagining him being insane... as he will drive you insane if you let him...<p>what do you need to do for YOU? It is time to work on you! I too am on a diet and having a bad time with sticking to it... trying again today! <p>Hugs to you, we will get through this.. take it one day at a time and do some thing nice for you today, oK? not just him... your life is about making you happy too, and if you do not take care o f you, who will?<p>Honey

I am also dieting for ME - My weight has been a big issue with my H but I'm going to lose it for ME and no one else but me - like with anything else in live it has its good days and its bad days - Somedays I just need chocolate!<p>I'm getting near the end of my rope - I love this man but I'm not sure how much more I can take.....Maybe its time it gets a taste of what I'm feeling - He knows I love him and is using that....