I'd like to thank you for your input re: "problems with my dad post" this is really difficult for her to do..step out and open herself up like this..but something I've been trying to get her to learn (to share her feelings)and not keep them all bottled up inside..<p>She shares these things with me and I explain to her she needs to discuss this with her father..and
she's told me she does..and just like she shared here says he ignores her, and something she didn't say is that he also gets angry at her..<p>I have the kids in counseling..so they have someone besides me to share these things with
because I know that sometimes I am to close to the situation..and they need another adults input..<p>I didn't know what the rules were to the board for her posting..but knowing it's a marriage builders site and knowing there are other adults out here who may struggle with these same issues..with their own children..I thought maybe you all would have some great information that may help her that I haven't thought about..and felt it would be best if she expressed her own feelings and me not post them for her..since they are her feelings...<p>I know some of the things she's struggling w/ like him not planning on being in town and then he finds out we have plans to do something and he calls to say he's coming in town at the last minute..so that we end up cancelling the plans is something he's famous for..<p>example..a few years back a friend asked if we could go sailing w/ her and her family so we made plans to do this..he'd said he wasn't going to be home, when he found out we made these plans he called and said he's coming into town to take son fishing..I explained we had other plans..and he could go w/ us..and he was adament that NO..he was going to take son fishing..and we could all go do that instead, well..we cancelled the plans..he came home..and we didn't go fishing..he said.."I don't have the money for us to go fishing this weekend, but he had the money to get his beer"-- so I understand her frustrations..the thing that had really pissed me off about it all was I took our credit card and bought the fishing license and other things for the fishing trip..and spent over $150 on this..so he wouldn't have had to 'buy' anything but the bait..and then for him to come in and say 'he didn't have the money' really infuriated me..because I knew at that point..the only reason he'd done that was so that we wouldn't go sailing..<p>This is an ongoing problem...they've cancelled plans to spend time with him..him making promises
to do things with them..and then saying 'he's broke' and can't do it..and then him drink all weekend..so they missed out on doing something fun..to spend time with him, and him be drunk and not do anything at all..<p>A few months ago we'd made plans to go to Daytona
X weekend- I'd made the reservations..I'd even checked the vistation schedule and made plans accordingly..They'd be with me that weekend..so that it wouldn't interfer w/ his vistation weekend..the kids were excited about that trip
because it's something I've tried to do every year with them..one night go down and stay the
at the beach..<p>He knew we had the plans because the kids were excited about it and told him about it..he called the friday night before we were going to leave
to say he's going out of town and would be gone for a few months..and could he get the kids that weekend as he was going to be gone the rest of the month and didn't know when he would be back in town..I explained that we had plans, but he could get them Friday night..and go ahead and take YD to her softball game Saturday morning and we could leave after that..so he could spend time with them before he left..he said.."well, I can't take her to the game because I have to work this weekend, So I'll just bring them home tomorrow morning before work" I said.."that would be fine..
and I'd take yd to ballgame" he got upset..and said "No, I'll take her" I said "I thought you had to work?" he was like.."Yeah..I do, I guess I'll just bring them home in the morning" <p>I found out later he didn't work that weekend..and he went to his brothers..he just didn't like that we had plans..and wanted us to cancel them..and I wouldn't do it..he was even more upset w/ son about that weekend because son wanted to go w/ us..and not stay with him..(even though he said.."he had to work") making son feel bad that he didn't choose to spend time w/ dad..he didn't call them or return their phone calls for the next week..<p>He plays on their feelings..making it like they have to 'choose' between us..and I am trying to teach them.."No, you don't have to choose, between us..you can spend time w/ each of us, which is why we have every other weekend visitation, one weekend your with dad to do things w/ him..and then your with me to spend time w/ me" and you love us both..and thats how it's supposed to be..<p>they just don't see dad that way..it's either
you spend time with him when he wants to..or you don't love him at all..and if you choose to go do things with mom (on her weekends) and not come see me..then I won't get you things you want..when your with me..<p>I see it too..on the weekends that we make plans to go do fun things..is when he does this..if it's a weekend we haven't made plans..he doesn't call them at all..I guess, I'll just tell them not to let him know about our plans..so that he can't do this to them..<p>But, I just wanted to thank you for your input to her..and I wanted to post this so that you would
have a little more background..about whats causing her frustrations..I've been trying so hard to teach her it's okay to express your feelings..(she
does to me..knowing I won't get upset..

Ouch...boundries that are being totally ignored and used as a weapon.<p>My girlfriend ran into this problem when she divorced her completely vindictive and immature husband over a year ago. He would come into the house, play (snoop) on her computer, use the phone, lay around like he stilled owned the joint, eat her food. She'd ask him to leave or try not to open the door to even let him in, and he'd push his way in. He'd take the boys and not say where he was going...he'd promise to be back at a certain time and he wouldn't show up for hours later. You name it he did it. She was about on the edge of a nervous breakdown when her counselor told her to quit taking it and to stand up for herself. Her ex was/is the type to go against authority of ANY kind...tell him what to do and you can guarantee he'll do as close to the opposite as he can. Things like schedules were just another way to try to make him do something by someone elses standards. She started calling the cops when he'd come over and wouldn't leave...she'd call the cops when he didn't have the boys back when he said he was supposed to...she'd call the cops when he'd threaten and verbally abuse her over the phone. I think she also journalized and recorded everything she could.<p>It did turn an inconvienient and maddening situation somewhat ugly...not the greatest environment for the boys for a while (especially when dad would tell them what a ***** mom was, amoung other things). But eventually he had to back down. As angry and beligerant as he was he was harmless...he was pretty much just acting like a 10 year old...and with enough re-enforcement that his behaviour just WASN'T going to be tolerated...he put aside atleast some of the attitude. Unfortunatly she tells me he's now found himself an enabler in his attitude (of course). Moved in a woman the minute his divorce decree was final...she just came from an abusive relationship and has a child as well. Her girl screams and crys when they sleep together...so they shut the door on her. Yup...great role models.<p>I know you want what's best for your children...but maybe what's best is for you to assume that dad doesn't mean what he says...and NEVER change your plans. Tell him you have plans and will be following through with them from now on since he is unreliable in his promises.<p>It is a really sad thing when a parent uses a child to punish another parent. I hope things get better for you. Take care.

ThornedRose,<p>I hope that what I said to her will help. She seems like a very sweet girl.<p>I’ve seen people do things like her dad is doing. It seems that they want their children to prove their love over and over. Your daughter is older then your son, so she will choose her activities over him many times. My children are getting to that stage to. It seems that your son is the daddy’s boy right now. Wait till he gets older and starts choosing his own activities over those with his dad. Ouch.<p>My step kids bend over backwards to prove their love to their mother. Why? Because they know that her love is very conditional. They have already all but lost her. They fear that if they get her upset she will abandon them totally. But as time goes on I they are starting to realize that mom is going to love them in her own way no matter how good or bad they are. They cannot change it. She will never really be there for them.<p>My son, P, wants to attend high school down the hill from our home. It’s less then a 1/2 mile walk. It’s where all his friends will go and it’s a very good school. His father wants him to attend a school about 20 miles from here for his father’s convenience. P and I would have to make that trip daily. His father would drive it once a week. So P and I are supposed to be inconvenienced daily so for his dad’s convenience. He told P that if he attends the school near us, he’ll only see P on holidays. Well that was the wrong thing to say to a hardheaded 13 year old. P’s response was “Well if I’m only that important to you then every holiday is just fine with me. See you around dad.” So now dad has lost his blackmail leverage. The kid is done proving his love to dad.<p>Your H is loosing his daughter in so many ways. It’s too bad he does not see it.<p>Given time, children realize what parents are like. Sounds like your daughter has a real understanding of who her father is.

yes, she's learning all to quickly what her dad is like..and it hurts me to see her learn this so young..and try to bite my tongue..because I know
this is "their" relationship..and not mine..<p>I guess another thing that is helping her see her dad for what he's really like is the differences she see's between him and the man I've been seeing...when he tells his kids something..he does it..even if it is an inconvience for him financially..if he has to take his lunch to work a few days one week because he promised to do something w/ the kids that cost more than he intended spending..then he'll do that..not just
with his own kids..but mine as well..she knows that when he says he's going to do something..he
does it..she can trust him to keep his word..<p>You know that fish tank she said I got her..I don't know anything about fish..but he told her that if we got it..he'd teach her how to care for the fish..he'd help her set it up and how to
clean the tank everything..so he and I went out and bought a small learning type fish tank..and he showed her how to take care of it..and has even taught her about different types of fish..<p>I realize it's not just my daughter's my ex gets mad at about things..I see it with my son as well..he talks to me at night about it when I lay down with him and we pray at bedtime..he's scared to death to tell his dad NO..or tell him that he has other plans..out of fear dad won't love him..
and no matter how much I say..that dad won't stop loving him..he doesn't see it that way..because dad gets angry..dad doesn't return his phone calls
dad doesn't come see him..dad withholds his love
and time from him if dad doesn't get his way..<p>My dad had given the kids a sega game, and this weekend when son got home from his dad's the girls were playing..and he wanted to play too..not a problem..but then they started fighting over it..
so the man I'm seeing took the game and put it up..(I was getting ready to do that, but since his
daughter was fighting too he beat me to it) the girls went out to do something else and kept leaving my son out..so he asked me if he could play sega again..and I explained..I wasn't the one who took it away..so he would have to ask him if he could..he was terrified to ask him..said..
"he'll just yell at me, and tell me NO like dad
does" I said.."well, he's not your dad..and he won't yell at you, he might tell you NO, but he won't yell" my son sat there for 30 minutes wrestling w/ this and came and asked me again to ask him..I just said, "No, thats something you need to learn to do" so he sat there hiding next to me, fear in his eyes..and asked him..and he said.."well, can you share the game if the girls come back in and want to play?" Son said "yes" he said, "okay then as long as you can share the game and not fight over it, then yes, you can play" My son got this excited happy look on his face jumped up said "thank you" and went to play the game..<p>Son told me last night when I laid down w/ him
he was 'glad he didn't get yelled at for asking if
he could play the game again' I said, "yeah, me too" and he said, "I guess I just need to learn not everyone is like my dad huh?" (that hurt me)
and I said.."yeah, I need to learn that too, but that might take awhile for all of us, and thats okay..we have time." we hugged, said our I love you's and he rolled over and went to sleep...<p>In reading this..I see it may be ex's fear that he will be replaced..and it's not just me he feels that the girls are choosing over him but he fears
they are choosing the man I am seeing over him..
but he doesn't understand that his actions are pushing them away even more..and causing them to have resentments towards him because of it..and doesn't understand that nobody can take his place unless he lets them..

Well, TR, My kids may be your kids in the future.
My oldest has refused to talk to his Dad for well over 4 years. Too many broken promises and trying to slide out of responsibilities..the latest being no help for college tuition.<p>We live 3000 miles away, and I realize that makes for some problems..but in their high school years the boys were forced to choose between state finals and seeing their Dad..they chose the finals and I don't think he's ever quite forgiven them.<p>It's been hard...all three have gone through depression, drug/alcohol abuse, and thankfully as they have matured they are learning better coping skills.<p>Becuase we split when the kids were relatively young, he doesn't really know them as young adults..and, as they say.."tries to be the Dad" during their phone calls..they don't buy it. You either show up and support through the struggles, or you shut up is where they are now.<p>Plus, he has gone on with his life, as he should and has his children, and they have seen differences in the way they were treated. On my daughter's last visit she was very homesick and would call home after everyone was in bed..he found out and took her spending money to pay for the calls..nice, huh?<p>The biggest strength they've gotten from all of this is to depend on themselves and those who SHOW their love..not just talk about it.<p>I had my daughter respond to yours...she's a little older and certainly more experienced in dealing with parental disappointment..from me and him...I think she's realizing there are no perfect kids either! But she is a good kid that has really come thru a hard time and I'm sooooo proud of her.<p>Keep the kids in counselling for as long as you can and know that you may have to revisit counselling later too.
T

I am in counseling myself as well..and knowing
I need it, helped me see that my kids also needed it..<p>Their counselor is a wonderful childrens counselor
who works with them to learn the names and definitions of feelings..he has a big beach ball
with all these different feelings written on it
and they toss it back and forth..if they don't know what the word means..he gives an example of a time he's felt like that..He's also had me come in
a few times with them..and we did the beach ball
thing..and I shared w/ them times I felt like they do..which I think has really made an impact w/ them being able to share more about how they feel to me..because I let them know I've felt the same way at times..<p>One of the times I was in there w/ them my feeling to describe was 'hopeful' so I said.."I felt hopeful every time their dad would promise to find
another job and be home, and quit drinking"<p>and then "heartbroken" everytime their dad broke that promise to me..and didn't do what he said he would..<p>And I get frustrated when I ask them to do something and they argue with me about it..<p>I feel ignored when I try to share my feelings
about something and nobody seems to care..<p>I felt neglected when your dad stayed away for weeks on end and didn't call..<p>So they learned..WOW, mom feels the same way we do..so they feel more comfortable sharing now than they did before..I think that has been one of the best things this counselor has done..he's done lots for them..but as for my relationship w/ my kids..and getting them to open up to me..and me w/ them..I know they don't need to know everything
but what they are learning will help them for years to come..<p>And hope4, yes, boundaries that are completely ignored..totally frustrating..and he's clueless..
and it doesn't matter how I explain it..<p>I do find it helpful to my kids for "me" to tell their dad we have other plans..so they aren't made to look like the ones choosing but sometimes..like when he calls and they answer the phone..and he starts up right away..I can't ward that off..and
he uses it against them later..<p>I've tried to talk to him before about his making plans to get them and not talking to me about the when's and where's and acting like I don't even exist..I guess something I can do is let the kids know to differ those calls to me..especially if they are my scheduled weekends..because I don't make plans for his weekends..