Just got off the phone with a friend who reminded me that my H will drag my name through the mud if he has to so that he can protect his reputation. <p>He did tell her months ago that he suffered for 10 years while married to me, etc. I abandoned him both emotionally and sexually, etc. etc. Does feeling this way and not telling your spouse you feel this way still constitute an affair? <p>How long do I have to be under scrutiny?

Terri,
Back to listening to friends talk about what H says, and having it ruin your day...<p>I think I said in my last post to you, other people finding out about your H's affair and reacting to him is a natural consequence of his behavior.<p>His behavior has been crap. People aren't blind. <p>His being unhappy for 10 years...so, he really made an effort to work on your marriage, suggested--heck, INSISTED on counseling?<p>He didn't right?<p>No, he screwed around and now is rewriting history. Typical WS.<p>Terri, don't let this make you crazy, he can't make you into a bad person if you aren't one. He can spread rumor, falsehood, but that has a way of circling back. And if you stand strong & dignified...it will leave people doubting him.<p>Nobody in their right mind says, "oh she was a bad wife, good for you cheating on her." [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] And if they aren't in their right mind, why listen or worry about them? <p>A big hug to you, your H is blowing hot air...and how can that really hurt you when you are living an honorable life?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong>He did tell her months ago that he suffered for 10 years while married to me, etc. I abandoned him both emotionally and sexually, etc. etc. Does feeling this way and not telling your spouse you feel this way still constitute an affair? <p>How long do I have to be under scrutiny?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Until he finds a) someone else to blame or b) grows up and learns what self responsibility is.<p>Everytime I read one of your posts like this, it hurts... hurts for myself and I also hurt for you. I KNOW how it is. <p>Only it's a little different. I didn't cheat on him. And he didn't cheat on me. He was just a control freak and it's been a year since I left. I got a restraining order in Feb of this year. And he is STILL ranting and raving to everyone in the city.<p>Sweetie, I know it is SO hard but *try* to let it roll off your back. This situation is no one else's business. When someone approaches me about this subject, I say "I don't want to talk about it, it's time to move on." They then stand there with their mouths open. SURE it hurts me that the topic still comes up. BUT it takes away THEIR ammo, as well as the ex. He will do this as long as he knows he can upset you. It's a form of control.<p>He isn't capable of seeing HIS faults, and it appears that really deep down he is a sad, unhappy individual. Blaming YOU for his mistakes and failures helps himself to feel better because sometimes it is very difficult to look in the mirror and admit you have ugly parts. <p>This is NOT your issue, it's his. You DON'T have to listen to that crap. You are doing so well. You will make it! You are a strong person.<p>Don't let him get you down.<p>Love,
Clear

p.s.<p>If it matters, people REALLY do see how silly his behavior is. In my situation, I am the calm one... the one that doesn't want to gossip and is not interested in hearing it. My best line is "Move on." They hate it because it basically says "Mind your own business/get a life" and they know I'm right. In the meantime, he's looking like a silly, unstable, immature, boistrous, crazy man who can't act his age. I mean if it was so bad, why didn't he leave!? SHEESH!<p>You will come out on top.

Terified,
I am both WS and BS and I can tell you I never told a soul when my husband cheated on me many times, I cried in silence,
However my husbands first reaction when this was done to him, was to run around bad mouthing me like crazy.. but in the process he never once said... he did blah blah blah..... I just shut my mouth and went on.. those who are your friends know better and those who dont.. you dont need them any way.
My husbands latest affair, he used my illness and made up stories to get sympathy from women on the net.. when I asked why he would say such aweful lies about the mother of his children.. He said Hey it worked they fell for it.
It hurts to this day, but I know what is true and what isnt.. so I ignore all the rest.

It actually feels good to post and receive replies. It's been a long time. Thank-you for responding.<p>Lor, Not so worried about what people say as I was. Just can't stand the gossip. Just needed to feel reinforced abou the WS' behaviour. Thanks for reminding me that I'm attempting to live honorably. I sometimes forget the important things.<p>Clearview, I have to start practicing my responses in the mirror. I'm still at the emotional stage where someone asks and I fall apart. That's why I don't go out much anymore. That's exactly what I asked my H. Why didn't you leave before? His answer, "I thought things would change and get better. I was waiting."!!!<p>MOF, I hear you. Let it go. <p>Hugs to all of you.

Terrified:<p>"He did tell her months ago that he suffered for 10 years while married to me, etc. I abandoned him both emotionally and sexually, etc. etc. Does feeling this way and not telling your spouse you feel this way still constitute an affair?"<p>Excuses. Pure and simple. He can't possibly expect you to analyze your part in the M falling apart while he's being unfaithful to you.<p>"How long do I have to be under scrutiny?"<p>Exactly 0.0000 femtoseconds!!!

I agree with 2long. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you should have to put up with the scrutiny at all. <p>Hang in there!!!

Miss Terri<p>The mean ugly lies your WH says about you are nothing more than flattulence..... and you should react to these expulsions of verbal gaseous matter in the same way you would to regular flatulence !!!!!<p>LEAVE THE ROOM AND BREATHE CLEANER AIR [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>If it smells like sh*t ... don't take a deep breath ... hold your nose and go where the scent is not so toxic.<p>Remember ... if he is verbally farting in your face ... you don't have to breathe in .... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now, I am trying to be funny and give you good advice at the same time. ... YOU can make up your mind how you will react to all his nonsense ... you can make his nonsense IMPORTANT .... or, your also have the choice to make his nonsense as UNimportant as stinky gas.<p>YOU get to decide how you react. <p>Pepper [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]

Pepper, you are a dear! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Lor (Lor):
<strong>His being unhappy for 10 years...so, he really made an effort to work on your marriage, suggested--heck, INSISTED on counseling?<p>He didn't right?<p>No, he screwed around and now is rewriting history. Typical WS.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I am sure a lot of WSs are like this. However, I am/was not. I don't think it's right to group all people into one category. <p>I was miserable for 10+ years of a 12 year marriage. My XH hurt my feelings constantly. He told me to my face - you are not sexy. Made me really want to undress in front of him and then make love with him!!!! Not!!! Of course I knew what he thought was sexy - porn. I am a fairly attractive woman and I have never been grossly overweight. Yes, I had 3 children and could stand to lose a few pounds, but I have never been really overweight. He never complimented me. He sent me flowers I think 1 time during our 12 year marriage. <p>Anyway....I told him I thought we needed counseling - over and over and over. His response "I don't need counseling. I'm happy. There's nothing wrong with me!" So....we never went. I tried going by myself once but it didn't change anything. I read book, after book, after book, after book - how to be a better wife, how to have a better marriage, how to be a better mom, how to have better sex, etc. ,etc., etc. I cannot begin to fathom how much I have spent on books! I asked him to read the books - wouldn't do it - he doesn't like to read. I read outloud to him when I found a small paragraph that I thought would be helpful.....nothing! <p>Then someone from my past came along....someone that was very interested in how I was. He told me I was beautiful and that he loved me every single day. He gave me compliment after compliment. He sent me flowers, cards, poems, etc. Yes, I was stupid and gave up my stable life for fluff.....but in hindsight I can see exactly why I did. I wish I hadn't. I know it was wrong and awful and hurtful. But I did try over and over again to fix things that I thought were wrong. <p>And what did my XH say when I told him I was leaving and wanted a divorce "Can we go to counseling?" - at that point it made me so mad that I refused. I should have gone. I should have made any and all attempts to save my marriage, but I didn't. I know I was wrong.<p>But...I did try - for 12 years I tried. Nothing changed. Now I have the rest of my life to think about what I did wrong. I just wonder.....does he think about what he did wrong?

Pepper, <p>How descriptive!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Now my dear Terri,<p>This is babble at it's best. Get it? Babble.
Others will hoot at your H's babble. So you can also. The point is that you know better and so do they but the WS and OW will be wallowing in the babble. <p>When my H told me this (& I heard OW on the phone messages reminding him of how 'bad' I was), I eventually got strong enough to say....'well if I was that bad, why did you wait so long? Hurry up, run to the OW before I get worse!' <p>Then he had to admit he made it up so that the OW would not look sooo bad. That is when I knew I had the upper hand even in their eyes. I did and could make their lives miserable just by being 'good'. The better I was the worse the OW looked and acted. Eventually she became her own downfall. <p>Now the piece to your disadvantage is that the OW is not here. So he is still fantasizing about her 'perfectness' (sp? - it is a fogese word). <p>In my case, I pushed him towards her since he was already going in that direction, why not stumble a bit on the way down? Oh yes that sounds mean but given another chance, I'd do it again since being nice did not buy me a lot of notice from both of them. By nice I mean enabling the A by just staying out of his way. Eventually it got to where I just needed to hurry him up. Go for it, make a perfect fool of yourself. <p>Of course I said it nicely. You know like when you are in a sweet voice telling the dog "oh you ugly mut......" Then the dog is just wagging their tail. See because they are not listening to your words. Neither does a WS. <p>L.

NC,
I'm both FBS & FWS...and there are many typical WS behaviors. Rewriting history is one of them. Having a troubled marriage and choosing to cheat before divorcing is another.<p>Of course there are exceptions. But, if your marriage is bad, cheating is not going to improve your spouse or your marriage.<p>As a BS, I do think about what I did wrong. As a WS I think about what I did wrong. I can't change any of that, but I can control who I am now and not blame it on my past.<p>I'm sorry I upset you, I sometimes post too flippantly and/or tactlessly.

T- Do not listen, move on. If he wants to say nice things or be good to you, OK. If not, no, and no with the friends and the gossip... stop it right there.. and don't dive in and bad mouth him... she who gossips about her h is like rottenness to his bones... from the bible paraphrase.... do not be like him... say nothing bad.. .come here vent, feel , take care of you.. You will make it regardless of what he does... he is not choosing to work on the marriage as he promised in his wedding vows.. you are for commitment and working on M= anyone ANYONE can see who is the better one here... if anyone believes his crap they are just PLAIN STUPID... a loving husband does not do the kinds of things that he has done to you... ! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] I am sorry you are still going through this... I know you are getting stronger... I am soooo sick of my H and his bad attitude... it is as if... he has started to truly lose me... I am starting to give up and think him a real jerk and a real fool who I could never trust... kinow the feeling?<p>Take care of you, I just had a nice hot bath! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] IT felt good... you may even consider support groups like codependent anonymous or love addicts anonymous... look them up on the internet... maybe there is some sort of local support group for people whose h's or w's have affairs...? look! I am so thrilled at going to a new COSA (sf addicts) and alanon meetings I could jump for joy! THey are helping me focus on me... and work on letting go... I deserve it , so do you! <p>One of my counselors said to paste it to my mirror that my h is an alcoholic.. my h is having an affair... my h is lying to me... just to get myself to see it as it is.... I tend to make it like I want it to be... not the way it really is...<p>I want my h and I to be in love... so I remember the good times only... I let go of the bad..> I forgive.. well he holds onto the bad and he does not grow and forgive with me. I love too much, I think you may too! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] So sad... I held myself together at work today and on the way to the car... I just about starting breaking out crying... that I just love him too much.. that is why I will take this crap><p>But why, let someone hurt you so much, I thought to myself... why do I do this... LOOK AT HOW MY H AND YOUR H HURT BOTH OF US>... we would not let our friends be treated this way... <p>at one time our h's were SOOOO WONDERFUL... this is the problem for me... I am waiting for that again... but I need to see him as he is... who he is NOW.. and what he is doing now... unfortunately I deserve so much better.. it is so sad.<p>I am so against divorce.. but I do not want a life of misery , lies , or being mistreated... I do not want my children to grow up thinking that for a wife to be treated this way is OK.... SEE...<p>WE have responsibilities to our kids , your d... to give them... a good environment around loving kindness and respect for all humans... <p>I guess our h's just don't love like we do... they are superficial, sick or aliens? I do not even know anymore...<p>todays words from my h are still if he gets a job and a roommate he will work on marriage... but he still sees my part in the problems as worse than his... (now he did not come out and say second part.... but I am suggesting to him he go to saa and aa and counseling... ) is he willing? at this point NO. Maybe he has to see what he is losing... maybe he actually has to lose it... who knows? <p>Hugs to you, we both deserve better... <p>listen to you... take care of you... gossip is gossip and it does no good.. take no part in it.. only discuss things in or about your m or seperation, etc... with people who are for you, trustable and kind to you... so that you can grow and get better.. take no part in conversations or words that hurt... OK?<p>See I am stronger again today [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] !!!! take care!<p>Hugs to you, HONey

Public Relations.<p>He is out there spreading his story of how rotten his marriage was, how noble he was for putting up with it for so many years, and hoping that everyone will support his decision to leave you.<p>Then he will wait a suitable amount of time, and introduce OW as someone "new". Thinking that everyone will be happy that he's moving on and has a new love in his life.<p>By that time, he's hoping that you will either <p>1)be over your bitterness so that you won't bother causing trouble for him, or<p>2)if you do bother to bring it up to anyone that they will just consider you to be a bitter ex-wife who's causing trouble for him -- and your credibility will be suspect.<p>I personally believe that you need to speak NOW.Let everyone know that the reason you are separated is not because you were a bad wife, but because he is having an affair.<p>Remember that "it is written" that affairs die when exposed to the light of day. When are you going to expose it T? Or are you just going to enable him to set all this up the way he's planning?

Great replies...thanks. An update...H called re:bank account. He's holding on to the joint. I have a new chequing and savings. Payroll now goes into my chequing. Alot of our expenses are preauthorized and go into joint. I simply transfer from mine into the joint for all my expenses and an agreed upon percentage of the household expenses. Kind of his version of child support. It's okay for me. I don't CHEAT. However, I make more money than him. His expenses amount to more and now he's screaming that he has no money left. I took a look again and confirmed that I've accounted for all my and even 100% of house expenses. Now he's screaming that he's leaving paycheck to paycheck and needs to get all of the PAC bills out of that account. Screams that we must go to a lawyer. I say nothing but goodbye and hang up. Very upset inside. What should I do?<p>It's our 11th anniversary this Saturday and I'm so emotional. Not with him. Inwardly.<p>Pepper, Did make me snicker a little...<p>NC, No counselling was dicussed. EVER. Problems were NOT discussed. EVER. I wouldn't have been this shocked if I knew that he was SO UNHAPPY. He never told me. Told me he would love me forever just before his EA went PA. We were talking about going to Cuba in August before the October he fell "out of love". I, as the BS, think about everything that I did wrong every day. He, as the WS, believes he did everything right.<p>O, I like what you're saying. Need to gain perspective on how to implement.<p>Lor, Don't all unrepentant WS's believe they're justified? You're not being flippant.<p>Honey, Funny thing, I cry AFTER work, in the car, in bed, in the middle of the night...anywhere my H isn't. At least that's under control. I hope we find ourselves in a better place next year.<p>Lex, You're right about hitting the light of day. SIL now knows. MIL is next. I have no choice.<p>Thanks to all of you.

Excellent choice to start sharing the real reason for your separation. Won't that be a much needed kick in the pants for your H!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Ohhh... to be a fly on the wall the day he is confronted by his family in regards to the OW! I can see it already... denial, denial, denial. If you have any concrete proof, I would share that with his family too. Otherwise he'll just accuse you of making up stuff.<p>Sadly, I'm enjoying hearing that your H is getting closer to rock bottom. Hmmm... living paycheck to paycheck without you, is he? Too bad he has to live with the consequences of his own choice, huh? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Be sure to remind him that you want to work on your M with him.<p>I tried calling you again last night (twice)... but you weren't around again. I'm home all night tonight (with no H! - he's visiting his parents for an overnight). Let me know if I can give you a call tonight, k?<p>Karen

Hello Karen, Good to hear from you. Kind of tried to remind my H that I wanted to work on the marriage. He said that he's sick and tired of making other people happy. He needs to be happy.<p>Oh well...

Terri,
Well, he isn't making anybody but himself happy, so why ISN'T he happy instead of being angry...and why is his trying to be happy eating up his money? Things that make you go Hmmm.

I almost had to laugh when I read your post. It's not funny, but I had to laugh.<p>You know, my husband's girlfriend sent him an e-mail asking how in the whole wide world he could ditch her and come back to me when I treat him like sh*t? Amazing, isn't it. *I* treat my husband like sh*t????!!!<p>I ask my husband (or I did, a while back, I don't ask anymore of course) how he could cheat on me, how he could put me through this hell, how he could turn his back on me in 1998. He simply says "Because of the hell we lived through during 1992 through 1997!"<p>And I say "You mean during 1992 through 1997, the time that you verbally abused me at my slightest mistake in housekeeping or child-rearing, laughed at me after you got me to cry, scutinized every move I made in a jealous rage because you were so afraid that *I* was going to cheat on you, ignored me to play on your computer, and then yelled at me if I told any of my friends what I was going through--and yet, I never once cheated on you."<p>My husband doesn't say anything but "Oh, shut up and get away from me." After all, he cannot be blamed for doing anything wrong, ever.<p>So, you are not alone. Take heart--and like everyone has said--let this roll right off your back. Don't make yourself suffer to be someone else's scapegoat. You are not. Pay for your own sins and not someone else's.