It was shocking enough the last time I heard this from my H--I was over 40 and a grandmother at the time. He actually said this to me seriously last night and even had an answer for why?--"Because we have such beautiful perfect babies."<p>Those of you who know my story will recall that part of our marital problems prior to his A were the result of my disability during that last high-risk pregnancy and his inability to deal with that. I felt so abandoned that I didn't want him there when I had the baby. We had a huge fight about it less than a week before I had to be induced.<p>So, after he said that, I felt his forehead for fever, picked my jaw up off the ground, and managed to ask him if he was anywhere near serious and why on earth he was saying that, to which I got the answer above.<p>What was even MORE shocking to me was that a couple of times during this conversation I actually gave it some serious thought myself!!!!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Even though my initial reaction was one of complete horror at the thought because of the status of our M and what he put me through during the last pregnancy and babyhood, one of my following thoughts was that I was already stupid enough to have children with him in the first place, and even while acknowledging the role that having children with him plays in my struggle of whether to remain married to him or not, the very fact of that argues that another child would not make that struggle any different because I'd already crossed that line a long time ago.<p>Fortunately, the fact that it might kill me (when I asked the doctor about future babies after my last one, he recommended against it "because we want you to be around for these children") and most certainly would help repeat at least part of the hell of the last 3 years, prompted me to take my pill last night.<p>He finally did say out loud that "your body couldn't take it, but wouldn't it be nice to have another baby if we could?" I managed to refrain from commenting on his historical treatment of me during pregnancy.<p>Has anyone else had a WS use this manipulative gambit? If you knew how much I love babies (in my entire adulthood, the longest I've gone between pregnancies is 4 years) and how a part of me will always want another baby, you would know why I suspect this is manipulation on my H's part because he does know that.<p>Part of me actually figured that it couldn't get any worse than it did last time and if I could physically survive, I'd at least end up with another baby before the biological clock shut down, and if it led to the end of the M, well sometimes it seems we're headed that way anyway, so I actually thought why not?<p>[ May 07, 2002: Message edited by: Conqueror ]</p>

If you and your H want to get some of the baby blues out of your systems... I have a set of (almost) 15 month old twin boys that you could borrow for a few days. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hmmmm.... they're cruising quite well. I hope you don't have too many breakables around the house. And JonJon is a 'headbanger'. I hope you don't mind being woken up a few times a night while he bangs his head on the head of his crib (in his sleep!!). Oh... and Alex is a mega suck. If we'd allow it, he would adore being held 24/7. I guess for fun, you can borrow the 3 yr old too. He makes it all the more interesting when he walks by his brothers and just gives them a good shove for no reason whatsoever (except to prove that he can). [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I think you ought to remind your H about ALL of the joys AND pains of little ones again. And if I were you, I would prefer having the grandbabies around for all of the fun stuff instead. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] (I can't wait for that - but goodness knows, I have no choice! LOL).<p>Karen

Wow, that brings back memories. When FWW was in the midst of the EA, and beginning to "feel the effects" of my plan A, see some of the pain she was causing me, and starting to think seriously about comitting back to me, she said the same thing! <p>She knows I'd love to have a son (have two beautiful daughters that I would NEVER trade). I think it was her way of trying to commit back to me. Not that she really meant it at that point as she went on to escalate EA to PA and put us through another 6 or 8 weeks of really difficult up and down times, but I think she was trying.<p>I heard the same thing very shortly after she ended the A. I really think it was her way of showing me her comittment to the marriage

All I can say is that I couldn't believe it when I read your topic line!

Betty,<p>Yes, I couldn't believe it either! Especially after your thread and my posting about my struggles with him regarding pregnancy and baby care. If he didn't have such disdain for the computer, I would suspect that he had been reading my stuff on that thread and said that last night to try to convince me that we HADN'T had all those struggles and he really WASN'T like that! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Karen,<p>I would probably LOVE having your boys around! They are so cute and I always wanted twins, too! The fact is we still have little ones of our own around here, so there's no empty nest on the horizon for a long time to come. I'm just hoping to be able to get these safely to adulthood before the grim reaper has his way with me. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Bill,<p>I did think of that possibility--that he was sincerely trying to tell me how committed he is in some kind of significant way. But considering our past conflicts in regard to pregnancy and infancy issues (described on nursebetty's thread about attachment parenting) and the toll it takes on our R, it just seemed like major insanity to even discuss it.<p>I think it also bothered me because it made me wonder if he had any insight at all into how he treated me during the last pregnancy and infancy and how abandoned and betrayed I felt when he wasn't there for me when I needed him most.<p>Part of my problem in recommitting to the M is the fear I have of him repeating that type of treatment in some other situation over which I have no control, like a heart attack or a car accident or something else that could incapacitate me for a period of time or maybe even forever. Not to mention knowing it would result in an A, which I never expected back then. I now know that's what he does when the going gets rough enough.<p>My last pregnancy began in exactly the same way with the same statement out of the blue just like last night. And we were going through a major crisis at that time as well--the worst of our lives up to that point in time. When you factored that in along with my age and the number of babies I'd already had, it seemed like a crazy thing to do, but I did it anyway because the thought of another little one to love and all the good stuff about it was so comforting in the midst of the grief I was in at the time.

My WH has been wanting another baby for about a year now. Leading up to his A, and following his A. At times I've considered it, but I'm not much into kids. I'm VERY content with the two I have. They are so close together that I think I got burned out. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] Sometimes I think he says he wants one because he knows I'll veto it. I wonder if I should agree in order to meet an EN of his, however, the toll on me is to great. I'll just have to take my chances by not having one. I sat him down the last time and told him, If we have another baby, it will take me away from you. I will not be able to spend much quality time with you. I will not get good sleep and that will affect my moods, I will have to quit a job(or 2) and that would affect our standard of living (and he loves to spend money!!), and it will leave me with one more child to have to explain why their mom and dad aren't together if you ever screw up like you did (the A) again. After that speech, he's backed off. Of course I've got it filed away in case I ever need it again!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img]

Conqueror,<p>I often wonder if you and I are married to twins who were separated at birth. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>A little background... I am a registered nurse. My background is primarily obstetrics and women's health but in recent years I have branched out into other areas but OB/GYN is what I consider to be my nursing specialty. I loved taking care of expectant and new families and I really looked forward to the day that my H and I could start a family.<p>When the time came that we both felt ready and I got pregnant was when I really began to feel my H pull away from me. It affected me deeply. With that pregnancy and the three others I carried to term, I was a puker for the whole pregnancy and had hypertensive disrders with each one. I had three miscarriages in there too and he preferred that I not tell him I got pregnant and miscarried. It was too hard on HIM!!! He would rather not know. So I was supposed to carry the burden of grieving for these lost children on my own. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I would like to think that most H's would be supportive when their wives were pregnant, especially with complications like hyperemsis and hypertension. Nope... he thought I should keep working, against doctors orders (what do they know anyway) and offered no support, physical, mental, spiritual for me as I carried our unborn babies.<p>He started his most recent philandering when I was pregnant with our fourth child. I was in a deep depression during this pregnancy. I was the sickest during this pregnancy at the age of 32.<p>After I gave birth to our last baby, he developed a serious relationship with his most recent OW, someone he had a very hard time giving up. While I was up at all hours of the night caring for our newborn, he was "working" on our PC late at night. Yeah, right, he was working on a relationship with her. He had no energy for our family but had plenty of energy for her.<p>We went out to dinner with some coworkers of mine a few weeks ago and our office manager brought her 6 month old daughter along. Everyone was oohing and ahhing over her, including my H. He asked me later, "Doesn't she make you want to have another baby?" I told him no. I wanted to tell him, after the torture I've been through to give us these four kids and the way you neglected me and our family, the answer is not no but HELL NO.<p>Bluebird

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by jamup:
<strong>I sat him down the last time and told him, If we have another baby, it will take me away from you. I will not be able to spend much quality time with you. I will not get good sleep and that will affect my moods, I will have to quit a job(or 2) and that would affect our standard of living (and he loves to spend money!!), and it will leave me with one more child to have to explain why their mom and dad aren't together if you ever screw up like you did (the A) again. After that speech, he's backed off. Of course I've got it filed away in case I ever need it again!! [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] </strong><hr></blockquote><p>LOL [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] I'm going to put that speech in my files as well should the subject come up again! Thanks for the excellent summary, Jamup. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Bluebird,<p>Since you have OB/GYN nursing experience, not to mention your experiences with your own pregnancies, you'll be able to fully appreciate what I went through, especially this last time. Grand multiparity became a risk factor for me during the latter pregnancies of my previous M. All of my pregnancies during this M included the added risk factor of maternal age over 35.<p>Then, the same day I discovered I was pregnant with the over-40 pregnancy, I was diagnosed with hypertension and started on medication, so it was not pregnancy-induced. Also, that same day, I was told I had an abnormal Pap smear and had to undergo some kind of procedure (can't remember now) for that. (Fortunately, my post-pregnancy Pap smears have been normal.) I remember thinking that day that if the baby and I both made it through the pregnancy alive, it would be a miracle.<p>Although I am fortunate not to vomit throughout pregnancy, the nausea affects me throughout, so cooking has always been a real problem. During this last pregnancy, during the last month I was on bedrest and had to do kick counts every day as well as nonstress tests 3x/week.<p>By that time, my asthma and sleep apnea became severe enough that I could only breathe adequately if I slept sitting up. Sleep deprivation became significant since it was so difficult to get to sleep or stay asleep. Even sitting up, I'd wake up gasping for air. Many times I thought I was just going to have a heart attack and die. The panic of struggling to breathe is so intense.<p>I'm so sorry you've suffered so many of the same things, not to mention multiple A's on top of it. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] I lost my first baby during pregnancy, and I also felt like I was all alone in my grief. How awful it must have been for you to endure that so many times. It still makes me cry when I think about my son that I never got to know, and you have 3 babies in heaven! I'm so sorry.<p>I, too, remember all the times I was nurturing my baby, having no idea that his father was stabbing us in the back, that when he would kiss us good-bye as he went out the door, he was going to see her. The ultimate, though, is that he exposed not only me, but an innocent baby as well, to the risk of AIDS.<p>This is one of the hardest things to deal with--that he was so selfish and cruel that he would risk my baby's life that way, that I cannot even trust him with my child's life, much less mine. I still don't know the final verdict because I've only been tested once back in October. I've been procrastinating being tested again for fear of the results. We both had to be treated for Chlamydia already as a result of the first testing despite his insistence that he used condoms with the OW and KNEW he was "clean".<p>Even with that, he got off easy with no apparent symptoms and the course of antibiotics. I had months of itching and discomfort that I thought was just from the heat of summer (if only I'd thought to go to the doctor sooner!), then as a result of the antibiotics I ended up with a persistent yeast infection and multiple treatments for that with more weeks of discomfort before that got under control. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm ranting again. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] Suffice it to say that I fully understand your emphatic answer that you refrained from saying out loud. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

If you think that even debating the idea is stupid, than I rate the highest at the list. I love my 3 mo. old son, but a lot of the time I wish he had a different father. My stbx now admits that he "purposely got me pregnant so that i couldn't leave him" after which three weeks later he began his a. with a 19 year old girl whom he hired to work with him.

One word Conqueror: NOT!

Yikes!<p>In a moment of foglessness recently, WW said something to the effect, "Yeah, I'll have sex with you - but only if it's unprotected... just messing with you!" Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha... Not something you say to a guy who's gone without for 8 months!<p>Keep in mind her age: 30. When she's in the fog, she doesn't want kids. When she's out of the fog, she does... What does that tell me? She KNOWS that having kids with OM is ludicrous... she'd have to be MARRIED to the guy... and that's just not in the cards - anymore! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]