I am very sad today and very numb. I have been through such highs and lows, that I do not feel much of anything anymore and do not care to feel anything. I do not have a real smile anymore, and do not see how I will ever have one again. I have been faking and masking my feelings for so long in this Plan A that I do not know how to feel. <p>I am at work now typing this and have no real motivation anymore to do my job. I do not have much motivation anymore to do anything. I push myself to get up in the morning and go to work only because this is expected of me. I have lived the last 8 years (married 7) giving all I have to my wife everything. She was my motivation. Now I feel I have nothing to work for. I have been trying to replace this empty feeling with something and have been unsuccessful. I still have this pain in my chest from all of this crap. I am emotionally, mentally, and physically drained and I wish that I would cease to exist. I do not want to kill myself, but I do wish I was never born.<p>I do not think this Plan A is working with my WW now. She is as cold as ice with me. She will not give up this OM and she says that she does not see how our M will work. I get no affection or feeling of love from her at all.<p>I am very new to this forum and was very encouraged by knowing that other people have made it through this whole thing and was eager to get to know people on this site. I have read the SAA book and believe in the principles outlined by Dr. Harley. I spend a good deal of my working hours on the MB website. I have read through the posts looking for someone who I could help, even though I have very little knowledge about this whole thing. I have posted some of my own problems as well. This forum was helping me tremendously and became a drug to me. Now I just do not think anything will help me anymore. Yes I think the EA/PA will end and our M will survive, but I do not think I will survive. <p>Well this post is going to be long. God Bless anyone who reads this thing through. Here is my story if you are interested. It probably is pretty dull compared to some others out there, but this is my HELL anyway. It is a good thing I wrote this history a while ago (emailed parts of this to Dr. Harley), otherwise it would not be as cheerful:<p>D-day was 3/12/02. It was a typical night in our house. I was doing my best to make our marriage better (I guess I was doing a scaled back Plan A before D-day and even before I knew what Plan A was). I had known for a while our marriage and relationship sucked and I was doing what I could to fix us. It was making an impression on her. <p>You see, our first son was a delightful accident. We had been married 5 years and my W was not ready for a child. Having this baby rocked my W’s world. She was not ready to give up her job, but she knew (listening to Dr. Laura) that it was the best thing for our son. After a few months in day care, she could bare it no longer she quit her job. When W told her boss that she was quitting, her boss offered her a part time job working 20 hours a week. This was perfect for us. She could make a little extra money to help make ends meet. It would have been very difficult for us if this opportunity did not come up.<p>Our son was very tough. He had a least one to two ear infections a month. He seemed to be always sick. Since our son did not breast feed and because of the difficulty my wife had with this life change, it took a long time for her to develop a bond with our son. I poured my heart and soul into my son. I took all the night feedings. It took hours to get him to sleep and often, I fell asleep putting him to sleep. I stop filling my W’s EN because my son was taking all my strength. My wife did little to offer help and because of this I resented her and did not make time for her.<p>Less than a year of my bad decisions was all it took for our relationship to sour. My wife’s love bank for me was nearly entirely empty. She often told me she did not even like me any more and did not want to spend any time with me. I ignored this, thinking that she felt this way just because she was going through post pardom depression. How could she possibly not like or love me because of how much effort I was putting into the house and our son? Boy was I in a DREAMLAND. <p>Because money was tight, I was putting more hours in at work. I would work roughly 11 to 12 hours a day getting to work between 5:30 and 6:30 every day and getting home between 5:30 and 6:30. Soon, being exhausted, I was regularly falling asleep with my son after we switched him to bed and spending almost no time with my wife. A few weeks ago, I found out that while I was sleeping with my son, she was crying herself to sleep in our bed. Boy was I stupid.<p>To make matters worse, our sex life suffered and I began thinking and telling her that she did not like sex and there was something wrong with her. In reality there was something wrong with me. Instead of exploring why I did not perform for her sexually, I blamed it all on her. I did not ask or try to become better at knowing what she liked sexually. I feel that she was also partially to blame about our poor sex life. She had lied to me in the past about not having sexual relations before we were married. This was probably prompted because I had not had sexual relations with anyone other than her. She never told me that she had been molested. It is interesting how many things you find out about your spouse when affairs happen. Needless to say, I was doing little to fulfill her most important emotional needs, which I guess now as being conversation and affection. I feel that I provided a good solid base for her affair.
Back to D-day, she started by telling me she had fallen in love with another man and had only kissed him. After I finally stopped shaking from the shock, I was able to pull out almost all the terrible details, how she fell in love with her boss, how they started the affair when she was two months pregnant, how they had many sexual experiences, how they planned to divorce and marry, how she tried to break it off with him several times, how his wife was also having an affair. I surprised myself in how level headed and calm I was. This probably was because I had very little in my love bank for her and also because I have always been a kind man. Since she told me about her affair, I have not said one unkind word to her or treated her poorly.<p>She told me she decided to tell me about the affair because at the time, I was taking blame for our rocky marriage and was actively trying to fix us. She said she could not go on seeing me blame myself for our problems knowing all well her secret second life was causing most of our current problems. To further add to the mess of this situation, her lover is ten years older than her, is married, and found out weeks prior to her confession to me that his wife was also having an affair.<p>To make a long tremendously long and dramatic story shorter, I am currently trying plan A. It was working extremely well. We were getting closer and closer. Talking very openly about her lover, her feelings, my feelings and we started having sex again. I continued to balance Plan A with occasionally reminding her that I did not approve of her behavior. I told her their relationship would have to end and if it did not, we would need to get a legal separation to protect our rights. I went online and printed out a free sample legal separation agreement and gave it to her to jot down what she thought was fair for visitation rights and child support. Regardless of this, she was still calling and meeting her lover, but I feel that her feelings for him are fading. We struggled through the sex and were able to make some strides with me learning about what made her feel good. I still need some work, but I think I showed that I could perform. <p>Unfortunately, this all came crashing to an end about three weeks ago when her lover's wife called me. I was very honest and forthright with her about everything. She was worried that I did not know about the affair, and she wanted to know why I was not stopping my wife from seeing her husband. It took me a few minutes to explain Plan A and Plan B to her so that she understood my intentions. I told her that we were doing well, that I was finding out things about her I never knew (that she lied about being a virgin), that we were becoming more and more intimate (I did not tell her we were having sex), that I was positive about the future, and that my wife did not really want to marry her husband. Before I had finished telling my wife the details of our conversation (I mistakenly left out some of the intimate details) she was on the phone with her lover. Eventually OM, OWM, WW, and I new everything that was said and everyone had their own version of what was actually said. My wife was furious with me. I stood my ground. I told her I had every right to share these things with her lover's wife. I told her I was not the one who had the affair and brought this woman into the picture.<p>Right now, I do not know what to do. I am now realizing who my wife really is. I am now seeing that it has been at least 3 or 4 years since she has fulfilled my most important emotional needs. I have always been the peacemaker and the giver and have given up everything for her. I feel I have lost my identity through our marriage and I feel I no longer know whom I really am. I see that when we have disputes, she is very good at manipulating me. She knows that I will try to be the peacemaker at whatever the costs to myself. I have devoted my life and all of my spare time to my wife and my kids. I do not know how much more I can give. I am tired of being the peacemaker. <p>I know that most of my loss of identity is my own fault. I have set boundaries, but I always let them be crossed. I set up knew boundaries, and let them be crossed. I need to work on me. I need to reestablish my boundaries where I feel comfortable and stand my ground. I am not sure how to do this, and right now I have no more strength.<p>Currently, my WW spends around 5 to 10 hours a week in conversation with OM and I do not think they can keep their relationship with this small of investment. Her lover is currently seeking advice from an attorney. <p>I am still in Plan A, but I have learned that I cannot bring up the OM at all. I only talk about the OM when she brings it up. I never tell her my feelings anymore because I have learned that they are real LB’s. I feel like I am ghost because none of this ***t could be real.<p>Well that is my story. Thanks for listening. Any comments, advise, or criticism would be appreciated.

Hi dreamland,
Gosh what a nightmare for you, huh?! [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Not to worry, looks like you have found the right place for support and strength and encouragement.<p>I think you have the right idea about not being overly concerned about controlling your WS's behavior.<p>I don't blame you for openly discussing the A with OM's wife, I think it is good that you were able to share about MB concepts with her. Two thumbs way up on that one!<p>I'm sorry to hear about your son. Probably if your wife breastfed him and wasn't so extremely selfish and a jerk, he would have had a better chance at being healthier. SHEESH! I'm sorry, I know you love her, but couldn't help it--her behavior is horrible and sad...<p>I commend you for working your butt off at work and at home, but sorry that it went unappreciated.<p>Remember Plan A is about you being a better you so if your W is too dense to appreciate you, it's really sad for her not you.<p>The grass is NOT greener on the other side, only where we water it. I hope she realizes it before it's too late.<p>Hang in there with your Plan A. I think Plan A should go for about 6 months at least? Then Plan B. You can do this. Focus on YOURSELF - filling her EN's and avoiding LB's--it's so important for the FOUNDATION of Plan B--IF Plan B is necessary.<p>Try to do some nice things for yourself. Great that you are focused on your kids. They need a strong and healthy dad so maybe see your doctor about anti-depressants? Why not???

Dear Dreamland,<p>I read all that you wrote and just would like to comfort you. I can feel what you are going through.
My advice for you would be, get professional help. You must take care of yourself!!!!!!!!!
You have two beautiful little children and they need you more than ever.
Do something for yourself right now and get help.
This is really a nightmare for you, huh!? [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>And always think, there are many of us out here and we understand your feelings and what you are going through.
From what you have written, I find you are very responsible, loving and caring. Have you ever asked your wife what she is missing or what OM is giving her above all your good qualities??? [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Concentrate on yourself and your kiddys, they will appreciate that and they can get you laughing again. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
hugs
BB

Dear Dreamland,
I also want to offer you my support. You are having a hard time, and I can relate to how you feel. What I would say, is that it may be time for you to get some anti-depressants from your doctor. I've taken them myself before at a low point in my life, and they were a life-saver - cleared that horrible black cloud sitting on my shoulders. Didn't take the problems away, but helped me be able to deal with them more reasonably and rationally.<p>I don't think you did anything wrong by speaking with the OM's wife. Didn't you say that the OM started this affair with your wife several weeks after finding out HIS wife was having an affair? Or did I misunderstand this? If that's true, it sounds like your W has got caught up in their marriage problems - and where does this OMW get off asking you what you're doing about keeping your W away from her H, when she is having an affair herself? Maybe I missed something here, but I don't think you have anything to blame yourself for.<p>No-one's perfect - but good marriages accept each other's imperfections and help each other deal with each other's weaknesses, not try to pin the blame for their faults on the other person. It sounds like your W's head cleared temporarily when she told you that she couldn't stand watching you take the blame for everything. This shows she does have the capacity for remorse, and has feelings of shame for what she has done to you, even though she may not be talking about that now, or have slipped back to being defensive.<p>You mentioned that she had been molested, and that she had lied about pre-marital sex. It sounds like she has some of her own issues which she needs to start dealing with in individual counselling. Are either of you getting any individual counselling, or trying to get any M counselling? Could you try to set up an appointment, at the very least for yourself?<p>I am also having a bad day - just feeling so down - plan A'ing, but feeling so insecure and wish I could cry on my H's shoulder, but am afraid to reveal my pain and weakness. So I came on to this site. Hope tomorrow will be better. Please know that others are listening to you here.<p>Odile

What you are feeling is all very normal. That was very important for me to figure out in the beginning. I thought that maybe I was crazy for having a lot of the feelings that I was having. <p>First of all, please know that there are a lot of people who are glad you were born even if you wish that you were not. I can think of two of them off the top of my head and that would be your sons. Hang strong for them, they need you. <p>Second, you said that you did not think Plan A was working for your wife. It is not for your wife, it is for you. Look at the things about you that you would like to improve and work on those things. If your wife notices the improvements and changes and wants to work with you to save the marriage that is a bonus. But Plan A is for you and for you to become a stronger, better person. <p>Third, your WW's affair needs to run its course and did a natural death. I know that it does not seem fair that you have to stand by and let it happen in the meantime, but use this time wisely. Become a stronger person. When the A dies and your WS decides that she would like to work on the marriage, it will take a great deal of strength to do that and most of it will be coming from you. While you are getting stronger, she will be hitting rock bottom and she will need you to help her out of the mess she has made of her life. Decide now if you are willing to do that. If you are then it is time to get strong. <p>I know it is hard to try and put what she is doing to the side and work on you, I have been there. I am there. But I have also learned over the past year that if I had followed the Harley's advise from day one that I would be a lot further along in process right now. As you can see from my signature line I was a complete mess from day one until about eight months into my nightmare. I finally was able to follow Plan A and I am now in Plan B. I feel good about myself now. You will get there, you just need to hang in there and remember you are doing this for you, not for her.<p>Wake up each morning and make the decision that you will make it through this and know that you will be OK.<p>Stay strong. I will be praying for you.
Sinking

I am sorry to hear your story. My story which I just started posting two days ago is somewaht simmiliar but I didn't give all the details in my thread so i'll add some here also. <p>Like you I was too devoted to my career (Ph.D. student) and taking care of our child. My wife almost died because of complications with child birth, suffered post-partum depresion or post-traumatic depression. I became the primary provider for my daughter and still fulfill that role. She never bonded with our child and with me absent from providing for her emotional needs she has developed a relationship with her boss (you can see my thread on Just Found Out (another long story).<p>Needless to say I have been working on Plan A and have had some success (except for last night). What I have found to be helpfull is to go to individual counseling and I got antidepresents. Just the steps I have taken to feel like I am in control of my life have made me feel better. I never increased the drugs and have been told that I probabaly don't need them, but I will stay on a low dose in case I feel bad again.<p>At times I feel like you do, what is the purpope for my life. I have felt really bad but, like you I don't want to die. Now that i have taken steps to take care of myself and feel good about the person I am, I can at least cope on a daily basis. I'm at a place now where I know I will be a better person with or without her. I still plan on continuing my plan A, but it is for me not her. She can make her own decisions about what she wants.

Thanks to all for your posts.<p>BINthereDUNthat,<p>I did not want to seem to mislead anyone, but my W did try breastfeeding and my son did not want anything to do with it.<p>I know I need some work on me. I tried to improve me by taking more control of my life, trying to regain my identity, trying to make myself interesting, but now I am tired of doing that crap. I feel that I am a good, careing, and loving person and I really do not care to be different or better anymore. If who I am is not good enough for people then I do not care to know them, and that includes my WW. <p>About nice things for myself, it is too late for that. I enjoyed fishing, but I have been pressured into selling my boat for years. After D-day, I decided that this was an LB and I sold my boat. It was picked up this past weekend. Besides, Plan A takes so much out of me, I do not have any time for myself.
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blondblossom,<p>I asked my wife what she liked in the OM. She told me that the OM had the same qualities as me. That is BS. From what she tells me about him, he is not so good of a person. He manipulated her into the A. Once my W started the EA, she tried to break it off and he stopped talking to her and was real mean. Try dealing with that with your boss. She finally gave in I think just to make work life better (who knows). She claimed she tried 3 times to break things off.<p>You are right, my children right now are my only joy. I can pretend around my wife so good, she does not have any idea how I am feeling, and thats probably good. <p>From the beginning, I have decided (and she has asked) that I not tell my family. She loves my family because it is not disfunctional like hers. I will honor this request until the D (if it happens). I really desire to talk to my Dad. He used to be a preacher and has taught marriage classes before. His input would have been great. I have told her about my desire to tell my Dad, but she is scared to ruin her relationship with him, so I will honor her request.
--------------------------------------<p>odile,<p>The OM did not know about the OMW A's. OM suspected but did not know. One of the reasons my WW decided to tell me is because the OMW told OM about her A's. This shock for my wife helped clear a tiny bit of the fog. She did not want to be like the OMW and hurt me like the OMW hurt OM.<p>I tried to get her to go with me to MC. She says she has no interest in this now. I may be able to talk her into a Dr. Harley phone counseling, but that is so expensive.<p>I am sorry about your pain. It must be hard for you to deal with this while you are pregnant.
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SinkingFast,<p>Thanks for your comments. I am tired of trying to make myself better. I know I need to work on setting and keeping boundaries and balancing my giving nature with taking. Maybe I will try to find out about that, but I do not know where to begin there. Does anyone know of good book?<p>I have read at least one of your posts before and I can tell that you have gone thru alot. How did you get the strength to clear your head about all of this and get rid of that sick feeling? It helps to know others have made it through this crap.
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onwardandup,<p>Your story sounds very similiar to mine. I will take a look at it when I have more time. I think I need to start working now before I get fired. I did almost nothing yesterday, and I have already been at work 3 hours here today and have nothing to show for it. I need to get out of this funk before it is too late. <p>I have never been much into seeing doctors or counselors. I guess it was how I was brought up. Growing up, us kids would not go to the doctor until we were on our death bed. I do not plan on going yet to get any meds, but if this continues, I will have to.<p>
Thanks for your posts. I wish I could feel good for a change instead of all this fake stuff. It has been so long since I actually have felt good, I am not sure how it feels.

Dreamland:<p>I can only add that you will get through this, one way or the other, either M'd to your W or not. I thought I'd never survive my W's A, but I think we've made major progress in just the past 24 hours, and I'm actually feeling pretty cheerful right now. It wasn't long ago, though (less than 2 weeks) that I had my worst panic attack since D-day #1. I was told early on that I don't need anti-Ds, and I believe that's true now, in spite of that episode 2 weeks ago. But we're all different, and it's certainly not "shameful" to need help, even in the form of drugs. <p>I do want to say that your W's insistence that you not talk to your father about this, when he's experienced in M'ital problems, is really not fair to you. I would advise you tell her that you really do need to confide in him, and then talk to him. She'll be upset, but later hopefully she'll appreciate the fact that you told her of your intentions before you spoke to your father. <p>I have told my D and my MIL about the A, but I wouldn't have except that I almost threw my W out of the house that day, and telling them was in preparation for doing that. In the end, I didn't, but it was very close at the time.<p>We continue to have disagreements, but we're converging, and the thing that hits me the most out of all of this is that my love for my W (and hers for me) is really getting stronger with time. It's an amazing feeling. This, at the very same time I have been feeling more self-confident, and so I know (and was able to tell her) that I can see myself being a contented, single dad if I have to be. Fortunately, I don't think I'll have to be.<p>I understand the feeling that you don't care about anything. I have a number of hobbies that I've set aside completely since D-day, that used to occupy a great deal of my time and attention after work (and were a big part of our M problems). The way I look at it, I've temporarily replaced those hobbies with MB as my primary hobby - to understand Rs in general and work on my self-esteem. This has been a tremendous learning experience for me, and yes, it can be somewhat addictive. It detracts from my performance at work, like in your case, but my M is so important to me that I think it's been worth it. And since our M appears that it will now survive and get better, I think the 4 months I've been "distracted" have been 4 months very well invested (particularly since we've been together so long). <p>Hang in there, dreamland. This is very hard, since you're right in the thick of perhaps the worst of it, but you will survive, maybe even thrive once again!

Dream, <p>For me I had to get away from my WH up front and deal with the feelings that I was having. I had a lot of people, his family included, telling me that I was too good for him and that I should just walk away. I heard it so many times over the first month that I thought I was crazy for trying to save the marriage. <p>After I realize that I was not crazy and that noone who has not gone through this could understand what I was feeling I came to terms with my emotions. I started doing things for me. I was working out, tanning, getting pedicures, just doing things I liked to do. I had to get to a point that I liked me before I could expect to give any honest effort to the marriage. I spent the first eight months getting to like me. Then I spent the next four in Plan A and spending time with my WH, even though OP was still in the picture, so he could see the changes that I had made. After four months of Plan A, my love for him was in serious danger and I went to Plan B. I have been there for almost seven weeks. I am taking care of me and know that regardless of what happens I will be OK and I will be happy. <p>Do I still love my WH? I think so. Do I want to save my marriage still? I think so. Would I try to save the marriage? YES. Until the answers are No, No and NO I will continue in Plan B. When the answers are No, No and NO I will go back to the lawyer.<p>I know it seems like you won't make it through this sometimes, but I promise that you will. Let God take over. I pray everyday about this, multiple times but until I broke down one night and begged God to take this burden from me I was never at peace with what I was doing. Now I am at peace. I feel that God has told me to hang in as long as I can and that is what I am doing. I have learned a lot from this experience, but until my WH learns what he needs to God would not want me to bear the burden of dealing with my WH as he is now. I know God is working on my WH, it is just a matter of how long it will take him to respond.<p>Still praying for you.
Sinking

For everyone who has posted here, I do not know how I did it, but I accidently said that odile was pregnant. I saw "having a bad day" and read it as "having a baby". I guess all this stuff is making mush out of my brain. Please encourage odile. She has more reasons then me to have a bad day. See her post "having a down day".<p>Thank you everyone for posting. I did something for myself. I treated myself to long lunch today with one of my friends. I never do this. Normally, I eat while working at my desk. I feel more refreshed now. <p>I appreciate all the support I get here.
Thanks

Dear Dreamland,
I checked in here again later today to see how you're doing - I'm so glad you went to lunch with your friends instead of being alone - something like that always makes me feel better, too. I also agree that you should really find a way to speak to your dad - I think he would want to be able to support you - he is your father and loves you more than anyone else in the world can - wouldn't you want to be able to help your own son if he were having problems? I fully understand the desire to shield and protect your wife from shame, especially as there is a chance she may come round to reason - I also feel this need with regards to my husband, but I recognize that I need to get through this, and I will be able to be stronger for him if I get the love I need from my family - it makes me more able to love him well. Does that make any sense?<p>Don't worry! My eyes are going, too! My H has challenged me to a backgammon tournament tonight, instead of going out like I thought he would, he even gave me a cuddle when i cried a little - I think my plan A is having more of an effect than I thought!<p>My prayers are with you AND your wife.
Keep posting!
Odile

HI dreamland,
I am also glad to see that you treated yourself out to lunch with friends. That IS a nice change of scenery for you and a nice break in your day.<p>I DID misunderstand that your wife was rejecting the baby because you said you handled all the feedings after your long shifts? Didn't know what was up with that... Do you think she felt rejected by the baby so she just gave up on trying to bond through midnight feedings??? Neither here nor there, but just wondering...<p>Also, you don't need a boat to go fishing, right? Do you still have your reels and poles and tackle box? GO FOR IT! You can rent a little dinghy at the lake, right??? I say GO!<p>Since Plan A is draining you, and since your wife is still in the throes of her A, she is not fully receptive to your efforts so you may choose to give yourself a little break to regroup. Back off and redirect some of your energy into your fishing! <p>You know, go off somewhere quiet and think long and hard. Decide what YOU want from your marriage and make a Plan A strategy for yourself to the point where you can maintain your strength and emotional health. All God's peace to you! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

BINthereDUNthat,<p>I am not sure what was going on in my wife's head about our son. I think she might have been just lazy and that is why she did not help with any of the night feedings. If someone is taking care of the kids, she backs way off and takes a break for herself. This irritates me sometimes because I never get a break because of this. I will reset a boundary here once the A is over.
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To all who posted yesterday,<p>Thanks for all of your posts. It really turned my day around. By the end of the day I was feeling great again. I was able to be very successful at Plan A when I got home. My W used to be a cheerleader so we went out in the front yard with the neighbor's daughter (trying out for cheerleading shortly) so that my W could teach her some moves. They were trying to do a front handspring, so I showed them how to do it. I was able to teach my wife how to do it. She is a fast learner and I complemented her for it.<p>She was feeling very close to me so I went after her that night. We almost had sex! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Boy was that great. We would have gone all the way, but I have been experimenting with shaving down there and it freaked her out a bit. We turned this experience into a comedic moment instead of an embarrassing moment, (this was very embarrassing to me). [img]images/icons/blush.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I talked to her this morning already and she likes it. So I am looking forward to tonight or one night this week. Wish me luck. Thanks for all of your help. I do not think I would have had the strength to make strides like this without all of your encouragement.
[img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]