I have posted recently on this forum and to others about my recent problems in my marriage.<p>My question is this:<p>I know it's possible, but is it common for a wife of 14 years to be totally convinced that she has lost all love for me, but regain the love that's lost? Like I said, anything is possible, but does this happen often, especially in troubled marriages? I know there are several out there who can relate their experiences to me. My only fault was not showing her enough attention when she needed it. She will tell you that all other aspects of our relationship were good, but after the inattentiveness she lost the love for me she had. If I do everything possible that I can to change her way of thinking, is there a good chance that somewhere that "spark" that may remain in her become an ember, and then to a flame? She won't say there is NO hope, just that she doesn't see it likely.<p>This is my first, and I hope, my only marriage, and I never did discuss things of this nature with friends I knew having marital problems. So...I am a dummy when it comes to whether or not it is common to rebuild something that someone is pretty much is gone.<p>Positive or negative....throw responses at me.
I am having a depressed day, and need some comments.<p>HCII

hcii<p>YES, YES, YES!!! Love can "return", so don't you dare give up hope. When I'd been married for about 10 years, I got to the point that I was convinced I had no love for my husband. We'd been thru alot, and I felt completely unloved and unappreciated. So I let myself get caught up in another relationship (read: affair). [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]
I begged my H to just leave and end our misery, but he refused to budge, thank GOD!. <p>I was totally convinced that I would never love him again -- let me tell you, I WAS WRONG!!! Even after going thru so much pain and confusion in our marriage (see my sig. line below), we love each other more now than we ever did! We're best friends and lovers, and now we know how vitally important good communication is. <p>I hope our recovery gives you some hope in your situation. Be patient, be loving, be the best husband and friend you can be to your wife. Oh, and read His Needs/Her Needs - it's a great book. <p>Best of luck to you.<p>at peace

I have to agree with "at peace" my situation was very similar I was at a point where I not only lost love for my H, I felt like I hated to even be around him. (I think it had more to do with the guilt of facing what I had done to us) <p>Boy was I wrong, it took a lot of convincing(myself) that I was being an idiot. I was very stubborn he was in plan "A" for a while and then he gave up. The only thing I can say is don't give up. If for some reason the light bulb didn't click on in my head just as he was giving up on me, I would have lost a great man, and my best friend.<p>I love my H more now than ever and I could never let him go. It just took a little bit of time and a lot of work to get us there. Whatever happens DONT GIVE UP!
Good Luck.

AP and DU - <p>THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THESE RESPONSES!!!!<p>It means a lot to read that others have been where we are all going, and have come out the other side BACK IN LOVE! [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You, like many here, are an inspiration to us all.<p>Keep it up,
Kev

Thanks for the kind words, Kevco. <p>Recovery has off-and-on been a long road with lots of intersections, but at least now we seem to be on freshly-laid smooth-as-glass asphalt!<p>I still have some trust issues, but I know they'll dim with time ... H has been wonderful, and that helps.<p>I really do wish peace and joy for everyone who finds themself on this board because of the painful reality of infidelity.<p>at peace<p>hcii ... you o.k.?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> hcii ... you o.k.? <hr></blockquote><p>NO...This is killing me !!!!!!!<p>She came over last night and was in good mood.We talked...She even brought food to me (best and only food I had eaten in 8 days)(best cause it was from her) Talked not positively, but not negatively, either. I have a meeting in Alabama Monday morning, and she said that she was coming here today to fix my attire for me so I would look good. She volunteered that, so I let her, thinking it was a positive step, and I read it to mean that she still had some feelings somewhere hidden inside her.<p>Today, she says that it is nice to remain friends after everything, and glad she could help a "friend" out, but she emphasized the word friend. Conversation went a little further, and she said that I needed to get it in my head that there would NEVER be another romantic relationship between us. That she visits me and talks to me and helps me because she wants us to be just friends after being together 15 years...<p>THIS IS KILLING ME !!!!!!<p>
HCII

You are meeting a need of hers. You want to do that? Only meet the needs she dictates? If she had her way, she would probably keep you on a leash like that. And feel good about it. <p>From a 'fogese' point of view, she will convince herself and eventually others that being your friend is what you wanted so she is being accomodating and others will agree. That is where this can go. Of course this is just my wild imagination doesn't matter that this is what my H tried to do. <p>I burst that bubble. Even though he was trying to be nice to me, his reasons weren't good enough. Being his friend was not all I was willing to settle for. In my case at the time, the OW wanted the WS 24/7. The WS felt to appease both he would be my friend and her lover. Wow, had it good in both worlds. Well one day he made the mistake (in trying to defend himself) and said that he had 2 women!!! <p>Blew me away. I said, nope not anymore. You have only 1 now and it is the OW so get out of my house. You stink!!!! You smell like the stench of a used man. I was angry. LB or not, him being nice or not, it was not for the right reasons so I rejected it. Of course that was after trying to be nice for 3 1/2 months. By that point I had, had it. I thought I was pushing him away to the OW but I did not care anymore because when I saw him I kept thinking how stink this whole thing was and I was not going to let him stink up my home. This was our sanctuary and no OW or OW associates were going to be allowed within our walls. <p>So step back and decide whether she is being nice to be your W or to get you to meet her needs. You may want to discuss this with your counselor. <p>By the way, your question is not stupid. <p>L.<p>[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: Orchid ]</p>

Your question isn't stupid, or easy to answer, But I'm sure glad you asked [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Hopefully one day I will be able to answer that it is possible. The people on this board give me that hope. Keep your hope alive!

What I am so confused about is WHY is she so adamant about us being good friends, when she is so adamant about our marriage being over? I can understand her not wanting us to walk through life, if this is over, with hate and hostility in each others minds.<p>But to WANT to supply certain needs for me? Like the making sure that I was properly dressed, and that the clothes were pressed for the interview? Like making sure I am eating properly? In good health? She keeps concerning herself with a small spot on my arm? It is almost like a broken record with the "very good friend" thing. In the past 2 weeks we have not been anywhere with each other, other than here at "our" house. Which, by the way in case I havent't said, is next door to where she is staying with her parents.<p>2 days ago where she was in a "good mood", I interpreted promising actions. But...maybe I need to stop looking at things as "promising".
She came over that night, calm and cool, we joked with each other, laughed, talked about buying bikes and riding together, and the such, and then she called after 10 PM (NEVER did that since she has walked out) and just wanted to talk. We talked until she became too sleepy to continue.<p>Then, that "never again" personality takes over the next day, and here I am depressed again. Maybe it was a LB'er, but I asked her point blank if she saw any hope, and that is when she says that she ABSOLUTELY sees none, but always ends it with a comment such as "not at this time", "not now", or something to that effect. Then she gets on this kick that she doesn't want to lead me on and maybe she should stop having ANY contact with me, because she knows she is causing me to suffer, because she says she knows beyond a doubt that I love her and want her and that this is painful for me.<p>I am pretty sure that the OM is out, and has been for about a week longer than she walked out on me.<p>One other thing that may or may not be important. I know I am biased, but really.....this is true. She is 32 and looks in every way as 22. Could be a playboy model, literally. Has men falling all over her where she works at a legal office, and always used to tell me about her "escapades" about men chasing her. They are true, as co-workers talked the same talk over the past 2 years she has been there. She doesn't talk about it now.<p>Her family knew of the affair long before I did, and tried to get her to stop. They told her that she had a good life and "exceptional" husband at home. (Her family's words, not mine). But...also told her to be happy, first.<p>She is convinced that we can be very good close friends, with nothing sexual in nature. I tried a little "second-grade psychology" on her when she was fitting me up with my clothes to wear to the interview, and subtly made no effort to "hide". She made no effort to look away, either. When she leaves for the day, she will manage to give a "hug", though.<p>I have mentioned counseling, but she maintains that counseling will do nothing.<p>I don't know what to do, where to go next, and this is confusing the heck out of me.<p>I may be setting myself up for a MAJOR fall, but I think that when I am ready to pull out of the driveway for the 10 hour drive, she will not let me leave without seeing me off, and maybe a hug. I think I'll try to read into that also, and probably shouldn't. But...Hey....that is all I have......hope....<p>HELP!!!!!!!<p>HCII

hcii, It sounds like you are still needed by your wife. She says she still loves you, but not in love, wants to be friends. Friends fill needs too. Maybe she wants to be friends so as to convince herself that she realy didn't hurt you all that much if you can still be friends. Or that there is still a chance for you as a couple.<p>I did the "second-grade psychology" thing too. But mostly held back the sexual side and am just nice to her.
One mouning on my way to somewhere she asked if I could put up a couple shelves for her. No problem, but she noticed I got dust on the seat of my pants, she started brushing off my butt and said "we can't let you go out like that". I told her if I knew she was going to do that I would have gotten dustier. She started rubing my back and huging me from behind and was getting a bit "worked up". What a rush, gives you something to hope for. Carry these things with you if you need reassurance, but keep eyes open to her other actions too.<p>Patience is the word, Be the best man you can be, for yourself.<p>D

hcii,<p>I feel for you, this is a tough one to call. As a woman, I would interpret her actions as her head is telling her she "wants" to leave, but her heart is still in love with you. OR, she has a bad case of feeling guilty so is trying to make up for it.<p>I pray for you it is the first. It sounds like lots of patience is the best bet for you . . . but that is the hardest thing for you to hear right now. Give her time and pray hard. It's possible counseling at this point could save your marriage, but she probably needs to be involved.<p>Don't give up . . . I'm praying she will sort things out. foreverhis

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> As a woman, I would interpret her actions as her head is telling her she "wants" to leave, but her heart is still in love with you. <hr></blockquote><p>I may not should have, but those were the EXACT (Gosh, that's eerie) words that I said to her last night. I then told her that I think that while the "head" gets confused, the "heart" never does.<p>I reminded her of a few times that we still had extraordinary special occasions recently. Her response is that she agrees they were special, but the love that was lost long ago, coupled with her memories of the disappointing times were outweighing the good in her mind.<p>If I know her well, (and I think I do after 14 years of marriage, and her "good friend" attitude since we have been separated over 2 weeks now),it would surprise me if she doesn't make it a point to come over here to see me off on my trip that I am getting ready to take. Of course, by reading the previous posts, she is aware of it by making sure I was properly packed, and is aware that I plan to depart around noon or 1:00 PM.<p>Although it would be one of the hardest things for me to do, because I would want the opportunity to see her before I left, what do you think of me leaving so early that she didn't get the chance? She knows how I feel, so I don't think it would make her look any more negatively towards me. But...could that little incident maybe "kick-start" or "wake-up" some feelings in her? <p>OK All of you people out there, especially the experienced ones.....How 'bout some feedback on that idea?<p>
HCII

My guess is that she is feeling guilty about having a year long sexual affair during your marriage and putting your health at risk for STD's by all of the lying and cheatin. By saying lets be friends she is relieving the guilt by showing she really wants the best for you. She sounds like she is acting like your mother.<p>My guess by keeping asking her if their is a chance you are pushing her further away. She is in a position where she has a lover and can be nice to her husband as a friend. She is calling all of the shots to make herself feel better.<p>I would suggest and I know that I will get flamed that you immediately go to plan B. Cut off contact and see an attorney and send her preliminary papers. There is a possibility this will give her a touch of reality that you plan to have a life without her. I think it will be a shock to her. You need to regain control of your life. She is playing a mind game on you to make herself feel better. She has been cheating on you for a year and she wishes to remain just friends with her husband because this will prove she is still a good person in her eyes. A person that is begging and pleading for his cheating wife to love him back is actually perceived as weak, needy and unattractive by the wayward spouse. I wish you luck.

Hey...I just realized something that may have little or no value.....<p>She desires to help me often with the old "good friends" routine. But....she refuses any from me....But wait a minute...only if it is visually obvious!<p>In other words, she is still handling our joint finances....(No...she can't stiff me, at least not much in cash, anyway) I can access our account via internet or phone, and she is making personal transactions, still.<p>She is on this kick about using only this vehicle vs. this vehicle, won't let me help her with things but will pay to have them fixed (What the heck is the difference?)<p>So in other words, she is in this phase of " It is OK for you to help, as long as you are not exactly aware of it"<p>Oh My.....Here my mind goes with the 2nd grade psychology again.....<p>
HCII

OK....Here's another one...
Can someone point me to the closest asylum [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>WW takes her mother to the mall today. First, let me remind everybody that WW is staying with her parents which is within walking distance to me. I probably shouldn't be calling her WW because I am quite sure the affair is over. Problem now is she is "not in love".<p>Anyway...to get to the point. Immediately upon returning back, she walks over here and shows me the new jeans and shirts she bought for me. Said I needed some. Asked if any bills came through the mail, I said no, she replied good because she spent a little more than she anticipated (No big deal on the amount, I never made a deal out of it in 14 years so why now). Said that she gets paid this week and it will more than cover it with money left over.(We're not poor, just dont place much in checking account)<p>After showing and giving me the clothes, asks me to walk up with her as they had stopped and picked up some KFC, and she knew I was probably hungry. So....I am trying to be nice according to plan A. I worked all day outside building a privacy fence here at home, re-finished the decks, and a few other cosmetic improvements. I do this because I know she really, really, is particular on how the yard and outside looks, and thought this was a good "dollar" for the love bank.<p>But... actually...I began doing this kind of work at the break of warm weather. Never had done it before in 14 years of our M, but my 12 year 24/7 job didn't leave room for it until my job turned into a 7am - 3pm since around Christmas, and free weekends. I just now, for the first time in our 14 year marriage, have the energy and time. That issue was one that started our M sliding downhill, Me not being home very often because of work, but now I am. So.....CHI-CHING! I was thinking deposit.<p>But this is after yesterdays just "good friends" lecture, in which she said she could never see us as a "couple" again.<p>I don't know whether to give Plan A a little longer (just been 2 weeks since she walked out),
or go to plan B. Some seem to think she is in a guilt justification stage. But...I don't want to screw up any chances for reconcilation. And like I said, I am pretty sure the OM is out of the picture, so I do not have to contend with that. (Rumor has it when all of this blew up this past Tuesday, and it blew up pretty big because I called the OM's wife)that the OM sort of insinuated to her that "What's the deal? We were having a little fun, and I am not leaving my wife"<p>But no....I don't want to be the one she wants just 'cause she can't have him, nor do I want a Pity helping hand.<p>I have not initiated any contact with her since the day she left. I let her contact me, but I make it a point to be nice and accommodating (Plan A, right?) But...I don't want to jump to Plan B, too quickly.<p>So what now? Just keep playing her game? Maybe it will make her see the man who can have something in common with her? Or just let her play with me out of he guilt?<p>By the way....get this...in the minor LB we had yesterday while talking, I asked point blank if she knew there were no feelings for me why not go ahead and file? Her answer? Get this... Because I "asked her not to"......... Hell....she works as a legal secretary. So it is not like it is hard to do or out of her way or anything.<p>OK people....what is she up to or trying to tell me?<p>HCII

hcii,<p>Now that I read your entire post I think you are doing great. The best thing you did was contacting the OM's wife. There is always a big debate on the board as to whether or not to do it and I am a big advocate of it for exactly what occurred in your case. You contacted the OM's wife and he immediately dumped your wife saying he just wanted a little fun on the side and he would not leave his wife. This kills the affair immediately and your wife immediately realizes he is not a soul mate but just wanted to use her. The Harley's always argue that once the affair sees the light of day the chances of it ending are quite good. In short, good job.<p>What you are doing really sounds quite positive.
I would just suggest that you refrain from asking her if she could come back, if she loves you etc. At this stage I would just let her actions and not her words do the talking. You will be looking more and more attractive to her as a man who is a full person who is happy with himself. She will begin to realize that she could lose you to someone else than the road. You are right in that you do not wish to be Mr. Doorprise. You have a right to make decision about your life and future also. Do not leave everything up to her. She was the one that broke the marriage contract by having a year long affair. These issues have to be resolved and counseling is a must for the both of you if there will be any chance for the future. I would also suggest that you engage in your activities and make sure that you are not always at her beck and call. She moved out on you and there should be some repercussions to her actions. All in all it sounds good what you are doing. I wish you luck.

UPDATE !!!<p>I am here in the Sheraton in Birmingham, AL, after leaving Kentucky this morning. I thought that I may do a little "playing" this morning before I left. I was quite sure she would want to see me off. (Remember, she is staying with her parents up the street).<p>Anyway, I devised this plan to leave earlier than she expected. However, I left early to go to Mom's to wish her Happy MD, without contacting the WS. 30 minutes after I was gone, the cell phone rang. I didn't answer. I knew it was her. I wanted to see if she was going to make the first contact. Mom lives just about 5 miles away, so since the WS had called, I decided to go back to the house before I actually departed for Alabama. She made a first move by calling, so I thought that it would be nice to at least acknowledge it.<p>I returned home and she was there. She said that she had planned on making sure I had prepared everything for my trip, and thought she had missed me. She asked if I had remembered this, remembered that, and so on. I had EVERYTHING in order. She made the comment "See...You don't need me", to which I replied, "You're right...I don't need you. I can take care of myself just fine. But....I want you, and there is a big difference". She then proceeded to start cleaning things and I told her to STOP! I can do this myself. I have been doing it the past 2 weeks, and will continue to do it, I reminded her.
I told her to stop cleaning the sectional, but she replied that it was hers, so she could if she wanted. I told her that it was not hers, she left it behind when she left. She then made a jokingly comment that it would be hers IF we divorced (I noticed the "if") to which I replied that if I were her I wouldn't be so sure.<p>She then said "Do you want me to prove it?" I replied, "That is the wrong question". She asked what I meant by that. I told her that the real issue is if SHE wanted to prove it. Left her speechless, and she quickly changed the subject.<p>Anyway, there was NO animosity in the conversations, but I darn sure was getting my point across. I am beginning to feel that it is MY turn to be in control. And by that I mean I keep ever so slightly putting the ball back in HER court. I've noticed that makes her think a bit.<p>I feel I made progress today. I will never forget the look on her face when I agreed with her and told her that I did not "need" her, and I did not need a "good friend" to do my house work for me. I think that may have "lifted" the "fog" a bit.<p>I left with a hug and a kiss on the cheek, and she told me to be careful. I told her to be careful, and that I loved her. <p>As I was walking out the door,I stopped and said..." You know, I once saw a man that had just been given the worst possible news that he could ever be given, and experienced the worst pain that he ever could (Her confession), but...ya know..He was more concerned at the time with another person's feelings (I held her and tried to comfort her while she sobbed when she confessed the A)..Kinda makes you think, don't it"<p>I then walked out the door and left.<p>HCII

my opinion...and everyone has one...<p>much of the lingo is familiar...I heard a lot of it...it is the lingo of someone who wants to relieve her guilt over her betrayal with being nice....it is the only way she can live with herself..and it gets her family off her back for screwing it up as well. Not saying she doesn't mean well.<p>There is no guarantee, but this is fixable. I suggest your stop having discussions about your marriage. If you wish, make it clear you have no intention to divorce and expect to reconcile as divorce is a huge black hole, regardless of children or not.<p>She may reject this, but it lets her know where you stand, and you need not bring it up anymore.<p>If she chooses to file, that's her business. Meanwhile, keep plan A as long as you can, and if nothing happens eventually, you go to Plan B...because its the only fair thing to do if she isn't willing to work.<p>One other thing, she is only away from the OM for a short time...she needs longer to withdraw from her dependence on him...and that is confusing her. This will take time..don't drive yourself nuts constantly "checking her pulse" to see if things are better. It will be up and down..but if you take the pressure off by not focusing on the TWO of you, but stay focused on YOU, you will be surprised at what can happen. And don't let yourself go up and down with how she is doing.<p>While my situation is a lot less severe, the comparisons are interesting. I find I make more progress when I keep it mellow, and don't have relationship check moments. <p>...that's my advice...and it's probably worth what you paid for it.<p> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

interesting update...I would also suggest you THINK about taking back control of the finances.<p>It's your money...her's also when she is your WIFE. If she wants to remain your WIFE, then you both have access to it, but if she is not gonna be your WIFE, then your money should remain that...yours.<p>Another reality dose, perhaps, but necessary to lift the fog. You want to be loving and kind...but not a schmuck. Good luck.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> If you wish, make it clear you have no intention to divorce and expect to reconcile as divorce is a huge black hole, regardless of children or not.
<hr></blockquote><p>I have made that point perfectly clear with her. I have absolutely no desire for us to divorce, and if either of us are to proceed in that direction, it will be her. (She works for a law firm, so it won't be out of her way)<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> don't drive yourself nuts constantly "checking her pulse" to see if things are better. It will be up and down..but if you take the pressure off by not focusing on the TWO of you, but stay focused on YOU, you will be surprised at what can happen. And don't let yourself go up and down with how she is doing.
<hr></blockquote><p>Since she walked out over 2 weeks ago, I have never initiated contact. I let her do that.<p>Actually, I never had control of the finances. She always handled that end of the marriage. But I have done things to protect myself. I may be wrong, but I had planned on that maneuver when Plan B goes into effect(I hope Plan A works). When I sever all contact, that will include the financial end also. We both are employed, and have a joint account. So if she wanted to, she could drain it all out tomorrow and I couldn't do a thing. But...I could as well. So...and again...I may be wrong...but I look at that as still maintaining a little trust between us. I would think that once trust is completely gone, there is no return.<p>
HCII