Hi, I have been in Plan B for a little while and it looks like it may be starting to have some results. Here are two e-mails from my stbxw, comments are appreciated.
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I know what the right choices are but they are very hard to realize esp.since you act like you have been innocent
in all of this,like you are beyond fault, that is really hard to swallow. You know many people would look at what
you have done very negatively as well, not just my behavior. I am not going to sit here and take all the blame for
everything, don't you think I sit and wonder what it would be like to go back to where I was and what was familiar
to me? Do you think I don't look at my children every night and day thinking about how much they miss what they
had? I do, it takes a huge toll on me emotionally,but it is not as easy as you think it should be to just throw in the
towel and forget all the things that have happened. I remember the good times but I also remember the ****ty
times, which you are well aware of w/out me reiterating to you. Sorry, but we are both to blame for! ! ! all of this
not just me and my choices, lousy or not so lousy, I have been reading more and more as much as time allows.<p>#2
I am going to schedule an appointment w/Fr. Bob for either confession or just advise sometime soon, I am scared of this as you can imagine, simply because I don't know how to talk to someone w/ that power and I am completely uncomfortable faced w/ a situation like this. I don't know what else you can do and I am sorry for that. Please know that I am working hard at reading and understanding the reasons why things happen, and yes I am just as guilty and for that I am sorry, I am still angry and that is really a tough issue for me and that you need to realize, when we don't have confrontations it is easier for me to get ahead, please understand this, sometimes I wish you had just let me have that space and time months ago and things did not get so ugly. For that I am sorry, I realize that I made things just as miserable for you as you did for me. I am very sorry for all the pain we have caused each other, but again it is part of the understanding and figuring it all out process. Please understand that this is not easy for me and I know I have choices and I know what you want my choice to be, but please know it is not easy for me and I am just taking each day at a time right now. Not having Pat is in a sense good but bad too. I am glad I don't have someone to talk about it w/ esp someone who was doing what she was, but I do miss her friendship for me and esp for Emily, luckily she has Josh to play with and they get along really well ESP since they are w/ each other a lot. They love to go to the pool and park together and paint and etc. etc. Emily is very loving to me, which really helps me get through my days. Thanks for listening I have to go get peanut at school, if you want to go to her year end picnic you can, or if not I can go. Either way, I will let you know when it is. I think in two weeks, that is all she has left of this school year.

Yes, it does sound like she is coming out of the fog. Accepting responsibility is a huge part of it. YEAH!!! but don't get your hopes up too high just yet.<p>It also sounds like she is coming out of the fog because of Plan B based on this comment: I wish you had just let me have that space and time months ago and things did not get so ugly.<p>KEEP doing what your doing. Stay in Plan B based on this statement she knows what you want but it is out of your hands AND she likes it that way!: I know I have choices and I know what you want my choice to be.<p>IF you respond keep it short like:
Thanks for sharing, I hear you.

Thanks ILnPM,
I will stay with Plan B. She e-mailed me twice again today, nothing important, just what was going on with her day. I did not reply.
I wish OM was out of the picture, it would make
things better... I guess he will be the last to go?<p>Take care,
Dave

davepr,<p>I too was the WS and by reading your W's emails it would appear that she is beginning to come out of the fog and is beginning to she her part in the whole sitution. that is very hard to accept. and makes it so much easier to run to the OM for the security she needs right now. While he is still in the picture, she is beginning to reach out to you again in her emails. I do understand that Plan B is all about no contact so you can perserve what love you have left and for you to begin moving on with your life. So if you have decided that you don't want her in your life anymore, then don't respond to her emails. But if you think for a moment that now that she is beginning to see things more clearly, then a short reply would let her know that the door to your marriage is not shut yet.
Send her an email asking about the end of the year school picnic and letting her know you hope she is okay. nothing more. just a little concern. For me that meant more than anything else my H did.
This is just my opinion having been on the other side of the situation. But only respond if you can handle it gracefully and keep moving forward with your own life. I know it took a lot of pain for you to get where you are at now, and I'm sorry for that.
I will pray for you both,
Debbie

dlm....
Just want to say HI! and thank you for being around and posting when you do. I think your story and advice is very valuable. I remember when I was new, your posts gave MUCH hope and understanding. Please stay around and post as much as you can!!!!<p>{{{{{{{dlm}}}}}}}

Dave,<p>If you ignore her completely, then she'll reach out more to OM right now..but if you want your
marriage then respond..<p>Maybe even suggest you both go to D's end of year
picnic, you don't have to go 'together' but both of you go..then she can be reminded of how you are w/ your kids and how much fun you had together before..<p>Also thank her for sharing her thoughts with you..
and let her know you've really missed that..

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>ThornedRose:<strong>
"If you ignore her completely, then she'll reach out more to OM right now..but if you want your
marriage then respond.."
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>But isn't one of the objectives in plan B to let OP supply all the EN's of the WS? To give a taste to WS what life will be if divorced?<p>If Dave brakes the no contact rule she has no reason to beleive that he is serious about moving on with his life if she continues with the A and that she can still continue to have things the way she's had until just recently.<p>To break the no contact rule because she might reach out to the OM is simply to cave in to blackmail. She will become very aware that Dave can be manipulated by playing into fears of her contacting OM.<p>It is because of the no contact rule in plan B she is trying to reach out to Dave because she senses that she might actually loose him if he decides that he had enough and that he wants to move on with his life. She did not do these things while Dave was in plan A.<p>She SEEMS to be coming out of the 'fog' but it's only because reality is starting to force it's presence on her consciousness. She is not totally out of the 'fog' and has not committed herself to no-contact with OM and until she does, there can be no future for the M.<p>So I respectfully disagree with breaking the no contact rule of plan B until she shows with deeds that she is going to break contact with OM.<p>Joe<p>[ May 11, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>

Dave - I tend to agree with Joe, but I didn't get a chance to experience this part of the process. On the other side of the coin, dlm speaks from "real" experience, so you shouldn't ignore it. <p>Could be that this is a very dicey phase during which potential contact should not be determined by a litmus test. I suggest a session with Steve or Jennifer - I don't know if you've worked with them or not.<p>Perhaps a "split the difference" course of action would be to resend the Plan B letter with a note emphasizing your conditions as well as your love as you originally stated. After all, a Plan B letter is intended to leave the door cracked open. I surmise that many WSs on the receiving end of a Plan B letter would interpret its meaning differently as the fog clears - if they would only re-read it.<p>I hope you get additional thoughts.

Joe, <p>I understand he's in Plan B, but, as a WS/BS, I guess I see things from the Other side of the coin..<p>Had my h reached out to me when I had asked for his support in things..things could be different but he kept rejecting me..because of his own hurt and stuborness..and telling me to call OM, and get HIS help..but, the thing was..I wanted to know he would be there for me..That "I" was important to HIM, that our marriage was important to him..but he wouldn't show me that..<p>I know your in Plan B, but you also Plan A
when you talk to her or e-mail her about the children, and a childs function should be something they should both attend..and be apart of, not something in my opinion that only one parent go to..this shows the child that even if they aren't married both parents will still be there for them..<p>And as far as her e-mail about herself, he can say
something like, I'm sorry your struggling right now, I hope you find the answers you are looking for..it's not opening himself up to be
hurt, but shows he still cares..and wants her to find her own answers..

This is a very good / significant topic...<p>"How to deal with contact during Plan B."<p>Now, the purest form of Plan B would require absolutely no response.<p>Pros:<p>- The OM is forced to meet WW's EN to receive your validation. But it's YOUR validation she's seeking, and I doubt her running to OM will completely satisfy that EN... that's just my speculation.<p>- If you stipulated "no contact" before, allowing it now would appear to be back-peddling - not necessarily a proper message.<p>Cons:<p>- "Out of sight, out of mind." If WW is becoming comfortable without you, some small, subtle reminders of your "goodness" can be good.<p>I think a SHORT response like TR's suggestion could be beneficial - nearly "no contact" but still shows a caring side.

Rose<p>I'm not discounting your valuable insight as a former WS at all. But I think that if you see Dave's signature bio, his WW has left him 3 times to be with OM, it speaks volumes regarding the manipulation that she has been exerting over him and OM. He's not been treated like her doormat, he's been treated like her yo-yo. <p>She's been a consumate cake eater and now that Dave has gone into plan B with it's no contact rule, she is going nuts in trying to recover the control she had while he was in plan A.<p>If Dave goes back to plan A and she returns and then goes back to OM, he may not have any love left for her to protect with a plan B.<p>Joe

Let us remember that there are never any guarantees regarding the outcome of planA/planB.<p>If the WS returns and is committed to no-contact with OP with a no contact letter, then the road to marital recovery can begin.<p>But if the WS still waffles and does not want to make a committment to no-contact with OP, then the M is still in jeopardy of ending in divorce.<p>Second guessing the MB methodology and doing the opposite of what said methodology requires, is really questioning it's validity.<p>A decision has to be made as to whether to stick to an MB game plan or freestyle. I beleive Dave's best shot is to stick to the MB game plan.<p>Joe<p>[ May 13, 2002: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</p>