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I'll try to keep this short.
My spiritual director lead me the Archdiocese website where I can borrow tapes on a variety of topics. (I have been looking for websites, books, resources - Catholic - for saving my marriage. I have only been able to find Christian materials. Every Catholic, except for family and close friends, have told me to prepare for the D and that the church nows makes it easier for annulments).
I called the Archdiocese yesterday and nice woman said she would look through the tape collection to find ones on (stopping a D if only 1 S wants to save it, being unequally yoked, and infidelity). She cam back to me saying she spoke to the director of the Family Life ministry, and that she wanted to speak to me.

God also blessed me yesterday by having me open up to one of the moderators of my Employment Network group at the church. She told me to do whatever I can to save the M. Only the second Catholic to say save it. She said try to get Marie into MC, for the sake of the children etc.

Today I spoke to the Family Life Director, and she re-affirmed some things about how my W feels. "Maybe she'll forgive me, but trust will be something that will be always difficult for her with me; and possibly another man in the future." She told me other things as well. She told me about a weekend that they provide for couples where there is still a slight chance of saving it. I told her Marie's state of mind and that it will be nearly impossible.
Anyway, I asked her to send me the info: one to my job, one to our home. She said she would address the one to our home to Marie (gulp). I agreed.

Need your wisdom. When she receives this, I feel she is going to go BALISTIC! Do I tell her about it ahead of time? Do I wait for her to bring up about the letter? Once it is out in the open, I will be telling her that this will be for us to learn how to be civil and friendly with each other for the sake of the children when we do D.
If you can't/won't offer me your advice, please lead me to particular scripture that you feel will enlighten me.

I have to tell you, I am scared. I don't want to have the big arguments again. BUT, this might be from God to save my M and Marie's soul.

The letter could arrive as early as tomorrow (gulp, gulp)!

Please pray for God to show me His Will, and for Him to soften Marie's heart to discuss and attend this.

I'm editted this, adding to this.

I just received an email from my Spiritual Director, and because of experiences in her past (based on my past issues of pornography, etc.) she will no longer be my SD. She suggested I go SAA meetings and find a therapist. Is God giiving me more signs? I am very hurt by this decision and even more confused.

Pray for enlightenment for me.

God be by my side.

Peace,
ttsmm

[ March 11, 2004, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]

Update.

Marie rec'd the letter and called me at work furious. She said it is over, she doesn't love me, etc. I told her it was for us to get along while the proceedings continue. She said she is being civil with me by ignoring me. I told this would help us respect each other. Anyway, no go on her going.

Putting my feelings out here. I am hurt that noone replied to this post. Just my myown stuff. Sorry.

Peace,
ttsmm

Hi Trying,

I did read your post yesterday, but have been a little bruised from some things last week, and haven't replied. I'm sorry.

Just like you - this is *my* stuff, but I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. I know how that feels.

Also, I'm sorry about your spiritual director. It must feel like a slap in the face.

When it rains, it pours, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Listen, I knew in my heart that that letter was gonna be trouble. I knew it, and would have said something, but it had already been sent by the time you wrote! What's to do at that point but wait and see?

Let me give you my advice, and it's simply that: advice. I'm no expert - far from it, in fact - but my feelings may spark something in you, we'll see.

You're trying too hard. Let go.

That's my advice. Take it as you will.

Go to your SAA meetings, continue to seek God's guidance, and... one more thing that I hesitate to say, but feel led to... quit trying to manipulate your wife. Before you tell me that you aren't manipulating her, consider this -- you knew how she'd feel about that letter <blockquote>quote:<hr />When she receives this, I feel she is going to go BALISTIC! <hr /></blockquote>and you let it be sent anyway. You are trying to educate and manipulate her - STOP IT.

I'm not yelling, just used caps for emphesis.

God bless you as you continue down this rocky road -- in fact, it's rocky enough without your adding boulders, okay?

nb,
First, I want to apologize for my words because they might be harsh.

My spiritual director (former) told me about tapes available from the Archdiocese. I called the Archdiocese for these tapes, and the woman helping me told the director of theFamily ministry about my situation. The director then wanted to speak to me. I left a message for her. The next day I prayed to God for guidance and support. The director told me about Retorvaulle(sp). She told how come my wife is acting/re-acting the way she is and things to expect; forgiveness - maybe, trust - very difficult but possible. She said to me, "what have you got to lose?" I told her to send me info to my house and my job. She suggested, not I, that she was going to address it to her.

Now to today. Yes, my wife went balistic as I thought she might (and there was always the possiblity she might give it some thought). So from your response, would it be safe to say that the devil was leading me by a godly person to make matters worse? No. It was not control, and I don't by your explanation. Sorry. The opportunity was offerred to her.

When I came home, there was NO mention of the letter. While she was upstairs, I checked the garbage and found the envelope, but not its contents. Hmmm, why wasn't that thrown out? Also, this morning, when I prayed at the Tabernacle, I asked God to help approach this, her response, with love, understanding and humilty. Guess what, I did. I explained to her that it was for us to respect each other in front of the kids, etc. I didn't get angry, guilt her into it, or any other past CONTROLLING behavior and reactions.

As for SAA... I have spoken to to many people: religious and non, therapist, clergy, secular, sex addicts and non. Verdict is 50-50. I don't spend all day on thoughts of sex. I don't go into porn mag stores, sex clubs, strip joints. I don't flirt with other women. No chat rooms since the affair (over five years). I know if I don't stay with the Lord, I can fall again. I knwo I can't do it alone, I need Him. But, I do not need a group to help with that matter. In fact I can help others with that matter, and I do when I see people going down the wrong road. One of the reasons I stay at this site. God has me here because I am one of the "odd balls": a believing WS married to a non-believing BS who is no longer in the fog and wants to save the marriage.

Sorry, again, for the tone of this post. I have been let down (slapped in the face, I believe you put it) by my former SD, only two Catholics outside of my family have encouraged me to save it (even my pastors, and church leaders say "anulments are easy now days"), my reading the Bible and finding that ALL/MOST of the Christian faith re-writes it to their own taste. So I am very weary.

I am going to check out retore ministries, and whatever the other one that is always being suggested. So tell me, besides prayer (and I am NOT doubting the power of prayer), what else is the standing spouse suppose to do? Every actionn will be considered control. "Gene, is their money in the account to buy <this>?" I answer, "No"., then I am controlling her. So every action is control.

With Retorvaulle(sp), the home page states that this is something that many courts, judges and lawyers have couples doing before they grant the divorce. So I intend to ask my atty to push for this when/if we go to court. Is this considered "controlling" her? I don't think so.

Peace in Christ,
ttsmm

No need for an apology TTSMM, but it is accepted anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Okay, listen... I am far from an expert on your situation, and all I can tell you is what I see - and yes, I probably have a bias, because I was once in your W's shoes, right? I have been both a WS and a BS, remember.

That said, I do think you had at least some control over that letter being sent to her - especially since you KNEW it would upset her. Again, perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think so on that one. The fact that the SD suggested she send one to your wife didn't mean you couldn't have said, "No, that wouldn't be a good idea. I know her - she'll go balistic and it will undermine all that I've done so far"...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> So from your response, would it be safe to say that the devil was leading me by a godly person to make matters worse? No. It was not control, and I don't by your explanation. Sorry. The opportunity was offerred to her.<hr /></blockquote>Well... I guess I would say that not every godly person gives 100% godly advice all the time. Godly people are human, after all.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />While she was upstairs, I checked the garbage and found the envelope, but not its contents. Hmmm, why wasn't that thrown out? Also, this morning, when I prayed at the Tabernacle, I asked God to help approach this, her response, with love, understanding and humilty. Guess what, I did. I explained to her that it was for us to respect each other in front of the kids, etc. I didn't get angry, guilt her into it, or any other past CONTROLLING behavior and reactions.<hr /></blockquote>That all sounds good. I don't know what else to say about that.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />As for SAA... I have spoken to to many people: religious and non, therapist, clergy, secular, sex addicts and non. Verdict is 50-50. I don't spend all day on thoughts of sex. I don't go into porn mag stores, sex clubs, strip joints. I don't flirt with other women. No chat rooms since the affair (over five years). I know if I don't stay with the Lord, I can fall again. I knwo I can't do it alone, I need Him. But, I do not need a group to help with that matter. <hr /></blockquote>Your decision. I was not offering advice so much as continuing on with the concept of you taking care of YOU.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Sorry, again, for the tone of this post. I have been let down (slapped in the face, I believe you put it) by my former SD, only two Catholics outside of my family have encouraged me to save it (even my pastors, and church leaders say "anulments are easy now days"), my reading the Bible and finding that ALL/MOST of the Christian faith re-writes it to their own taste. So I am very weary.<hr /></blockquote>Again, no need for apologies... and I am so sorry you carry such a heavy load and are weary. I do understand that - more than you know.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I am going to check out retore ministries, and whatever the other one that is always being suggested. So tell me, besides prayer (and I am NOT doubting the power of prayer), what else is the standing spouse suppose to do? Every actionn will be considered control. "Gene, is their money in the account to buy <this>?" I answer, "No"., then I am controlling her. So every action is control.<hr /></blockquote>Not every action is control. In your example, if there is no money, then there just isn't. That's just the truth.

You can use Plan A while standing for your marriage. Hopefully LoveMyEx will come by with more on standing... and restoreministries... I understand they are good.

Have you ever read the story of Gavin and Patti McCloud? He's the Love Boat captain, she's his wife. They got divorced at the end of the Love Boat run, and she prayed him home. She was a believer, he was not. Might be something to look into.

I'll back away from this thread now, TTSMM. Something about it just touched me today, which is why I responded. I don't like conflict - and I've had enough to last a lifetime lately. The last few posts I've answered have rubbed people the wrong way - and I don't like that. I like peace. You too, I bet.

God Bless you, and hopefully others with more experience will be along to guide you soon.

[ March 12, 2004, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: new_beginning ]

nb,
This is why I'm weary. Another person wants to step out of my life because I tell/express my feelings.

After posting before, my w comes down stairs and called me manipulative, etc. and that I should have told her before time about the letter. I know from experience that that would have just caused an aargument earlier. Anyway, tonight wasn't an argument, but a lot of talking on her part mostly, because when I spoke, "you always justify everything." said my w. I told I take responsibility for the A 100%, but not the state of the M by myself. Same old conversation, but with some new facts: she DID kiss her personal trainer two falls ago, and had an EA, but never PA. DO I believe her? Based on her lying for a year plus, I don't know. She justifies it saying I would have held against her in court. But again, she is allowed to justify. Later on she wanted to know why I wasn't upset when she told me, that it didn't matter to me (was she testing me?).

Back to the people leaving me when I'm honest about my feelings. Back in the beginning of my M, I told the truth and got verbally in trouble for it. Not really being a man at that time, it hurt me deeply when she disapproved. So to relieve the hurt, I started lying to her. It became ahabit and became too easy.

She again brought up about the sex addiction,and that she can't trust me any more. She thinks I'm crazy because I am not sleeping with wnyone right now. She said I should sell my wedding ring. I told I would wear this ring until I died. And that I will not remarry, unless she passes away before me. "You're an idiot."

I'm confused and hurting right now. I don't feel God anywhere in the restoration here, and I don't see her moving towards God. In fact she is moving further away.

Good night and God Bless,
ttsmm

Trying,

Let me give my 2 cents for what it's worth, very humbly of course. First off, I do recommend VERY highly that you order the books from Restore Ministries by Dan Thiele for men. They WILL help you a great deal. What else can you do besides pray for your spouse? All I can say to that is continue to show kindness where there is sarcasm, love where there is cruelty, and smiles where there are frowns. I know your W thinks that you're "faking" it, but so did my H before he came back and when he did come back, it took him up until last week to admit that the changes he saw in me were genuine. Sometimes he still thinks that I'm putting on an act to get him to stay and that "the ball's going to drop" sooner or later.

I understand you continually reaching out to her, trying to get her to go to these M weekends, etc. because I did the same thing w/my H. So many times I would have the Family Life ministries weekend pamphlet sitting on the table, he would glance at it and just shake his head as if telling me, She never gives up, does she? Always, time after time, he would leave & I would feel devastated that he turned it away again. Even now, I don't understand his reluctance to come on this site, or even listen to that tape (remember when I gave him that?), and he's been home for 3 weeks now.

One thing I do want to stress though, IF this D goes through, you MUST take off your wedding band. This is important. It will truly show you are releasing her to God. Yes, you are still married in God's eyes, but you holding on to that wedding ring on your finger still has you attached to her, holding on. You MUST let her go to God. I know how frustrating it is not to see changes that you've prayed for in your W, but maybe you can look at this time as God working on changing YOU right now and look how much he's done that. YOu have come so far, Trying since you first posted on this site. It is evident in the things you write and the advice you give. This is God at work here! Wonderful!

It sounds to me like you've prayed and prayed and prayed and God has changed you, is continually changing you and now you think that it's time for a change to come about in your W and your M. This is you wanting things your way. I don't want to sound harsh so please don't take this that way. Believe me, I have had my share of, Give it to me now God! I've been so obedient! It's time now for things to change! For me to see SOMEthing! I know how frustrating it can be and I feel your pain & frustration, brother.

All I can tell you at this point is continue to seek God's Word and if your church peers are telling you to get an anullment, then maybe you shouldn't be listening to them. It sounds to me like you believe your W has the ball in her court right now and you want a little bit of upper hand in all this. I wanted that too but what I realized was that that would be me trying to take control of the situation instead of letting God do the work. It is hard, it is frustrating and it takes a WHOLE lot of patience, which is something that everyone runs short of. Let me ask you, have you prayed for patience? Have you prayed for strength to get through the day? This is a step-by-step process, Trying and a very long rocky road. Let Jesus be your guide. Let him ride the bicycle up the hill. Each day is a new day & you never know what to expect from it.

As far as your W telling you to go ahead & be with someone else, well, IMVHO, she is just trying to make herself feel better. She figures if he has someone then it's okay for her to without feeling any kind of guilt. She may not show you guilt, she may not say it, but it's there, believe me.

Anyway, hope I didn't say anything to offend you or come out wrong. That was not my intention. I just wanted you to know that I read this post & I wanted to make sure I had the proper thing to say to you instead of blurting off the top of my head. I've been praying for God to give me the right words throughout this post. Hope I helped a little. We love you, Trying! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
 She again brought up about the sex addiction,and that she can't trust me any more. She thinks I'm crazy because I am not sleeping with wnyone right now.
I'm confused and hurting right now. I don't feel God anywhere in the restoration here, and I don't see her moving towards God. In fact she is moving further away.
<hr /></blockquote>Trying,
I haven't been around for awhile, but I decided today to just post some thoughts I had about these developments and this particular post. There's so much here. I hope you can follow all of this.

First of all, I'm beginning to *wonder* about your Spiritual advisors/church, etc. I don't mean to question your Spiritual Home, but......
Well, it sounds so much like the advice the "world" is always giving us......just "move on." You don't need that.

I guess that's what keep ya coming back to us, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Anyways, in regards to her comments to you above, which I quoted, I think that's what struck me most......
Man, she'stelling you what the problem is!! She doesn't trust you!!!

OK, so now you're going to ask, "So how do I get her to trust me?"
Answer: TIME and PATIENCE

This is just going to take time. In the meantime, NO outbursts, NO confrontations.....be consistent, doing what you're doing IN THE LORD. Show her Christ.

I know you said "she seems to be worse....."
Joyce Meyer would say THIS IS GREAT!!! It means God IS working!!! The Holy Spirit is making her miserable so she cannot continue the way she is!!! PTL!!!

It will take time, (and maybe some more uncomfort) before she realizes that there's NO WHERE to turn to get away from the misery except the Lord, but as long as you keep the pressure on (praying), Holy Spirit will keep working!!!

Face it, Try, no matter what happens with your current M, she isn't going to "get away" from the Holy Spirit. What I mean by "no matter what happens with your current M" is this: IF (big IF) you end up getting div'd, it's only a piece of paper, and it isn't recognized as legal in heaven!!! AND, it doesn't mean God isn't still working!!!

Your W (like my H) is running head-long AWAY from us to try to make the pain go away. It doesn't work, so relax and let her try!!! YOU KNOW there is only one way to make the pain go away......and until SHE learns that, she's going to keep being miserable! My H is.
I mean, here's a man who WANTED a div. HE HAD TO start a new life (told me so), things would "be better for him" once that happened. Guess what? IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!
Every time I talk to him, he still sounds the same. STILL b*tches about how miserable his health is, his job, his finances, his life in general......I WANT to say, "So this div. REALLY worked for ya, huh?"

I don't - of course - but I want to. See, he's STILL THE SAME MISERABLE, unhappy man he was when *it was my fault* and he left!!! What does that tell me?
IT WASN'T ABOUT ME!!!! It was about HIS relationship with GOD!!! He hasn't figured that out yet. But when he's slopping with the pigs, and everything else has run out on him, HE WILL.

So will your W. Just keep on keeping on. God will give you strength enough to get through this.

God Bless you, my brother.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
nb,
This is why I'm weary. Another person wants to step out of my life because I tell/express my feelings.<hr /></blockquote>Are you talking about me stepping out?

TTSMY, I am "backing away" to allow room for someone else to "step in"... and there *is* a difference.

Let me explain why - and I hope this comes out right:

In my first post to you, I suggested that your wife might feel manipulated. You insisted you weren't manipulating her, and said that my suggestion hurt and angered you. I remained steadfast on my belief, but at the same time felt terrible for saying something that hurt you.

But then your last post to me said (among other things:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />After posting before, my w comes down stairs and called me manipulative...<hr /></blockquote>You see...

You were not ready to hear what I thought, and I have a hard time NOT saying what I think.

I prayed before I posted to you, although my faith is not at its strongest right now... but I really felt led to say what I did. I don't have an inside track, but maybe God put a bug in my ear on this one. I don't know, and don't pretend to know, all the answers.

If what I'm saying gets blurred because of your pain, and I don't want to cause further pain, then I want to stop the behavior.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I'm confused and hurting right now. I don't feel God anywhere in the restoration here, and I don't see her moving towards God. In fact she is moving further away.<hr /></blockquote>I know, and I'm so sorry. I go back to my original suggestion on this one too...

Let go. Let her go. Let God do the work. You rest, take care of you...

I know how hard it is, I really do. But to me - you're making things worse, not better, by your behavior toward her.

I suggested above that you combine Plan A with "standing" and I will ;)stand;) by my suggestion.

And finally, there are others who understand your situation more than I do... and perhaps give better advice. I hope they come by... as I see ST did...

I hope this message did not add to your pain.

Thanks nb/st,
I am in terrible pain right now. I have cried a half-a-dozen times since last night, and I'm crying while posting this.

I feel totally lost. I am going to check out the restore ministries because I need to find someone who is in my situation (I won't repeat it, its above).

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Anyways, in regards to her comments to you above, which I quoted, I think that's what struck me most......
Man, she'stelling you what the problem is!! She doesn't trust you!!!
<hr /></blockquote>I know she doesn't trust me. I read in Harley's books though that the BS will want to check up on where the WS is. I would welcome that with open arms. How do I regain the trust?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I know you said "she seems to be worse....."
Joyce Meyer would say THIS IS GREAT!!! It means God IS working!!! The Holy Spirit is making her miserable so she cannot continue the way she is!!! PTL!!!
<hr /></blockquote>By not every marriage is saved, so how do I know that she is miserable because of the HS and not because she is stilled married to me? I guess I am suppose to "walk by faith". Since I am a believer, God is this marriage and therefore the HS is working. But if both of us were non-believers, the HS would not be present unless an outsider was praying for us. Does that make sense? That means without God being with at least one of us, her reactions would mean the m is over. But with God being with me, her reactions are because of her fighting the HS.
woah!!!!!!!!!!!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />One thing I do want to stress though, IF this D goes through, you MUST take off your wedding band. This is important. It will truly show you are releasing her to God. Yes, you are still married in God's eyes, but you holding on to that wedding ring on your finger still has you attached to her, holding on. You MUST let her go to God. <hr /></blockquote>So holding onto the ring is wrong? I thought that would be part of standing for marriage. She told me that if I keep the ring on a defintely won't be getting laid. I'm not looking to get laid I told her. I will not remarry unless she passes on before me.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I know how frustrating it is not to see changes that you've prayed for in your W, but maybe you can look at this time as God working on changing YOU right now and look how much he's done that. YOu have come so far, Trying since you first posted on this site. It is evident in the things you write and the advice you give. This is God at work here! Wonderful!
<hr /></blockquote>Sometimes I feel my words are just words that I write on here. They are not full of substance and power like many of you (standing, sg, steadfast, faithful, lupo, lmx, etc. - sorry if I missed anyone). I feel I write quick short little prayers. I know I am writing this so i will get some appreciation back. My big EN, and one of my major flaws.
When I was in acting school was the first time I had a large group of people around me with the same interest. But, the gatherings we had were very painful for me; I was never able to give any advice, having had no life experiencs to relate to. So I didn't fit in. As Marie puts in, I don't fit in now either. I'm always loooking to fit in. I'm so confused. I mean how much of her words are true?, how much is her lashing out?, how much is the devil speaking to her and me?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />In my first post to you, I suggested that your wife might feel manipulated. You insisted you weren't manipulating her, and said that my suggestion hurt and angered you. I remained steadfast on my belief, but at the same time felt terrible for saying something that hurt you.
<hr /></blockquote>Someone tell me how you show something to your S without it coming off as manipulation? From I what I have heard and seen over the last couple of years is that a woman can do things, BUT, she is not manipulating her BF or H. But if a man does it, IT IS MANIPULATION. That is downright crazy and unfair.

Why is it I can completely understand ALL the pain I caused her, but she can't understand that her actions (many LB's - mainly disapproving judgements) scarred my soul. I am was avery sensitive man - that has changed dramatically - so many things DID affect me.

Goes back to what a former MC and I discussed once; I know the world is unfair and I expeect people, especially those I love, to paly fiar with me. When my w lost her job we went to her family's gathering and she told me not to tell anyone. At the party, one of my ILs asked how things were going and I said things were OK, and he said that it must be difficult to live on one income. I was hurt that she didn't come to me first and let me know she changed her mind. During our talk (it wasn't an argument) yesterday, she couldn't understand why I would feel hurt. Through out the M, I was not allowed to have my feelings; or it must be something else, not those feelings. This isn't manipulation on her part?

I can't type anymore. I wish I could SPEAK to someone.

Going to the dedication of our new church with the kids.
God's Peace, Love, and Mercy be on us all,
Genesius

Trying,

I am going to e-mail you with my phone #. Would you like to talk over the phone? I feel your pain & I know you need a live voice to talk to. I want to try to help you calm your fears. Would that be alright? I know I'm not in exactly the same situation, but I don't think you're truly seeing what God is doing in your life right now. God bless you, brother.

I just subscribed to the Charlene Cares newsletter.

I have to get ready for church. Good news, Marie agreed to me taking the kids to church on Sturday evenings, therefore EVERY WEEK.

God bless,
Genesius

Wonderful!!!!! PTL!!!!!!!! God is starting to soften her heart! This is wonderful! I'm so happy for you!!!!!

The new church is beautiful. Before coming back to Jesus, I did not like modern churches. This a modern church, but it is beautiful. Everything was originally made, nothing from a catalog. The ceremony was LOOOOOOONG - 2 hrs 45 minutes. Kids complained. Got to meet our Bishop after mass and I asked him to say a prayer my marriage. He asked if I was getting any help? I told him I was losing my faith in the church. He said I should talk with my pastor. I'll try again - BUTTTTTTT, I am going to pursue restorem and rejoice ministries online. I cried several times during the mass....I wanted Marie by my side....In His time I hope and pray.

Love in Christ,
Genesius

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
 I cried several times during the mass....I wanted Marie by my side....In His time I hope and pray.

<hr /></blockquote>Yes, trying, this often happens to me as well.

Just have to TRUST Him, and HIS TIMING. He knows best.

IT CAN ONLY GET BETTER.

Remember, sometimes when there is a "sickness" - God has to do surgery on the problem. Have you (or W) ever had surgery? Well, it's PAINFUL. And can take a long time of recuperation. But necessary for healing and wellness again. Your M is sick. It needs surgery, and that is a painful process.....stick with it.

GOD IS THE GREAT PHYSICIAN.

RestoreM is a wonderful resource. I get a lot of comfort from it.

RejoiceMinistries is one of my favorite web sites. I love reading their daily messages. Check in to subscribing to the men's stander's daily devotional. It's Dennis - er - somebody. I forget his last name, (Dennis Wingate? I think?) but he's associated with Rejoice Ministries, so you can probably find it on their website somewhere. I think you'll get a lot out of his daily words of encouragement, too!

God Bless,

Thanks lupo & standing,
I just don't understand what's going on in her mind. Tonight when she came home from work, she talks to me about wall papering the hall. Wants my opinion; likes what I had to say; goes to bed without a word (well that she does every night, the no words).
Some friends, if I should even call them that, say don't spend ANY money on the house while this is going on. But aren't I being a good husband by providing; a godly husband through those actions; giving like Christ without any immediate reward?
Doesn't matter, she'll find the money anyway; we got a HUGE return on our taxes and she has already stated we are spltting it, "You can do whatever you want with your half." Between our tax returns for the last two years and my spending money I didn't want to on lawyers for the TRO and surving while I was out of my own house; we would have reduced out debt by more than half. When we lose the house, that will be one huge doctor bill, lupo, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

God bless,
Genesius

PS nb, I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated because I want to talk to wife and still be heard as well. I took that frustration out on you. I hope you will keep me in your prayers as you are in mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Some friends, if I should even call them that, say don't spend ANY money on the house while this is going on. But aren't I being a good husband by providing; a godly husband through those actions; giving like Christ without any immediate reward?
<hr /></blockquote>I believe you are, Trying. Try to hang in there buddy. Of course, this is my VHO.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
 PS nb, I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated because I want to talk to wife and still be heard as well. I took that frustration out on you. I hope you will keep me in your prayers as you are in mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Funny, you're the second person to apologize to me on this site today. I must be doing something either very right, or very wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Of course I accept your apology - and of COURSE you remain in my prayers.

If you can't let of steam here, where can you? You're suppose to be safe here...

No worries, okay?

TTSMM,

Until now I have been silent on this thread because you sound so desperate and depressed. There's no need to add to your pain after all. So I want you to take several deep breathes, blow your nose, open your heart, and see if you are willing to hear what I have to say. I see several topics that REALLY need to be addressed:

1) God does not want divorce, and if you are hearing people encourage you to let your marriage go, you should ignore them for they are not speaking from God. HOWEVER, I will say that while I firmly believe God does not want divorce, that there are times when He allows it for the good of bringing one of His children to Him. My instance is a good example of this, I believe. My exH is a mentally ill sex addict (not exaggerating--just being very factual), and while we were together, I believe my attempts to save my marriage were prohibiting God from working in my exH's life.

2) YOU are trying to save your marriage, and YOU are standing in God's way. Give your marriage to Him and take your hands off of it. TTSMM, you keep TRYING and struggling and fighting and attempting to make God do it YOUR way, and you do not know what you're doing. Love ya, but you don't. God knows her heart...God knows the past and the future...and God knows what YOU need to become closer to Him and what she needs to become closer to Him. Please, I'm begging you, give your marriage to God and trust in Him!!!

3) I'll be a little blunt here. Sending the brochure to your W was insulting and controling in her eyes, and here's why. She has very clearly stated that she does not want to work on the marriage at this time. Now, I understand you are not happy about this AND it is not what you want at this time, but you are not respecting her boundary. She said she did not want to work on the relationship, and you keep forcing her to do it your way. If you want to get ANYWHERE with this, stop demanding YOUR way with God and your way with Marie. RESPECT HER!! Now, TTSMM, you go to her TONIGHT and apologize for not listening to her and for forcing your way on her. Here's how it should go:

"I am completely responsible for disrespecting you and not honoring your boundaries, and I am sorry that I forced my opinion on you and sent the brochure. I can see how you would feel angry and hurt and unimportant, because I do not even treat you as if you were valuable enough to have your own limits and feelings. For now, I hear you that you do not want to work on our relationship, and even though I very much want us to be reconciled, I will respect you and respect your boundaries regarding our relationship. I encourage you to do what you believe you need to do in order to feel safe. Will you please forgive me for disregarding your boundary and disrespecting you?"

4) Your Spiritual Director may not have declined to work with you because of YOU--she probably decided to stop working with you because of HER. Let me give you an example. If she had been raped--if she had a friend or relative who was a sex addict--if she had been sexually abused as a child--then SHE may not be able work with you objectively and wisely sue to her own issues. Additionally, if your Spiritual Director truly believes that you are a sex addict and need to attend SAA, then I would recommend at the very least to soften your heart and consider her words. So far, your Spiritual Director has been a very wise council for you, and I believe you trust her. There is no logical reason to believe that her wisdom is suddenly off-course.

5) Regarding sexual addiction, I have the sad distinction of having some experience. My gut feeling is that you are giving all kinds of arguments for why you are not a sex addict, but I hear very little self-examination or humility, wondering if maybe you are. The first step in ANY addiction is admitting that you have a problem--and quite frankly I do not see you behaving in a way that is even considering the possibility that you might be out of control in this area.

My brother in Christ, I am not there with you and I do not live with you day-in and day-out, so I do not know how sex may be causing harm or disrupting your life. However, there is more to sex addiction than PERVERTED sexual acting out. In other words, it's not about going to XXX porn stores, strip clubs, and hookers. It's about viewing females who are mothers, daughters, and whole human beings as primarily sexual objects. It's about seeing a college-aged girl and seeing only her big tits. It's about cybersex or emails with sexual content or always oogling or always making some lude comment or thinking of sex so often during the day that you can't concentrate or thinking about body parts a majority of the time or touching your own self so often that it's disrupting your life or ... or ....

I'm asking you nicely to be courageous and look at the man in the mirror to ask him if he has a problem with sex. It's scary to look at yourself and consider it, but my brother, ask yourself. If the answer is "yes" then go to SAA, and when you think "I don't belong here--these people are perverts and gross" YOU STAY. You soften your heart and listen to the message you need to hear, and YOU STAY. Okay???

Now, TTSMM, I want you to know that I care about you a GREAT deal. You are a precious brother in Christ and a personal friend, and I would not tell you all this without expecting to be there with you and for you to help you get through this. But as much as I care about you, I can not MAKE you give God your marriage or let God work in Marie's heart or apologize for being disrespectful or consider SAA. Only YOU can do that. But I won't give up on you, I won't walk away, and I won't stop being your friend. Just so you know, though, I also won't enable you and I also won't let you avoid facing the consequences of your choices. Okay?? Are we clear? TTSMM, please soften your heart and hear. ((((((((((TryingToSaveMyMarriage))))))))))

CJ

[ March 14, 2004, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: FaithfulWife ]

i was writing this while faithful was writing hers, so i haven't answered fw's comments.

ladies (i believe i only rec'd answers from women so...),
first, thankyou for your words, support and especially prayers.
second, i am not going to use uppercase as i wnat to get all thoughts out. i'm not going crazy...well not too crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

weird day. i stayed in all day, but i didn't play w/my kids even though marie was out. i just felt i needed time for myself. when she came home i still stayed home. she went up to the bedroom and i watched jimmy newtron movie with the kids. i went to the store to get milk and listened to some christian music and then saw some couples food shopping. i teared up a bit in the store, but when i got into the car, i couldn't stop crying. i asked god "why?"

when i got home and we finished the movie, the kids went to bed and marie came downstairs. she called me a lier from our talk the other night; she knows i slept with more women, how could i not have because of my illness. i don't remember what i replied, but then she told me that when i have visitation. i told her i was going to file for custody 3 days each week. she hit a button on me and then went off about how with my addiction the judge won't award me the kids like that it will be every other weekend. that it is a good thin that i not remarry because i'll just break another women's heart. she kept hiiting buttons and i couldn't take it. she did tell me that even with out being religious, she knows that marriage is suppose to be exclusive. but then she attacked again. she told me i would never be well, i never went for a lie detector test, she knows there were more women, i never continued the saa meetings. i have a paper you signed in your own hand admitting you are a sex addict. there is no way the kids will ever sleep ove r in your house. i told her i would go for a lie detector test this week if she would try in this m? no. then why do you want me to take a lie detector test? i love catching you when you lie. i told her that the vows said for better or for worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, til death due you part. i told her she was breaking her vows and that she discards things when they are broken, just like a piece of furniture. i then left because i didn't want to loose it on my end.
i went to the car, and let off some steam, mostly at God (have to capitalize Him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). i aske Him why He was throwing so much at me at once. i can't handle all of this. i want to live in your will. what is your will? no answers. i then said a quick prayer to God to let me go back in and not argue.
i came back in and she was upstairs. then she came down. she immediately apologized, saying that she can't control herself sometimes. we then had a great talk. she opened up on alot of things. some of it hurt. she was telling about how men are noticing her and she likes the attention. she told me about several men, since my a, that she has befriended, and that she was looking for a man who could be somewhat of a father figure to her, while not treating her like a child. that is type of man she wants to be with.
i'm forgetting much of what she said, but i will touch on some bits. i felt i am a avery romantic man and she completely agreed. that i was supportive. she was also trying to get my take on men so she could understand us better for her future ventures. it took several silent Our Fathers to not get jealous or jump off the handle.

God gave me what i wanted tonight when i asked Him in the car to let me know His will for me.

keep praying for me to know His Will even more.
- do i check into a clinic to see if i am a sex addict? with out God, i will be continuing these horrifci sins against God and marie.
- do i volunteer for a lie detector test to prove i haven's been with any other women?

God's Love and Peace and thank You Lord for putting these good sisters (and brothers) in my life,
genesius (In my marriage, His Will Be Done).

[ March 15, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]

TTSMM,

It seems to me that you are concentrating on proving the facts rather than hearing her message. If you go take a lie-detector test to "prove" there have been no other women since your A, what do you gain? You force your W to see that you are right and she is wrong! How will that win her heart? How will that respect her? How will that in any way advance your goal of winning back your wife??

What she is saying to you is "I loved you and trusted you, and you betrayed my trust and hurt me. I feel like I've been betrayed more than once and every time I tried again and believed in you, I found more evidence of betrayal and loving someone else and sexual impropriety--if not in body, in thought. You HURT me!!! I don't believe you love me more than you love thinking about sex. I can't be hurt anymore or I will die and lose myself."

And your response to that is going to be: "See? I TOLD you I didn't have sex with any other women!"

Gee, Genesius! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Go tell your wife you understand she is afraid to trust you. Go tell her that you love only her and that given your history, it's understable why she would be afraid. Go tell her that you love her more than you love impure sexual thoughts, and that you are willing to look at yourself and seek help.

A lie-detector does not and will not solve anything. It would only be forcing it down her throat that she can not feel like she feels.

Sigh.

CJ

CJ,
Honest answers here.
<blockquote>quote:<hr />1) God does not want divorce, and if you are hearing people encourage you to let your marriage go, you should ignore them for they are not speaking from God.
<hr /></blockquote>I know. I am very confused by what many in the clergy have told me. I am calling another priest today who my SD had recommended (actually he is a colleague of the priest she recommended, because he so booked).

<blockquote>quote:<hr />2) YOU are trying to save your marriage, and YOU are standing in God's way. Give your marriage to Him and take your hands off of it. TTSMM, you keep TRYING and struggling and fighting and attempting to make God do it YOUR way, and you do not know what you're doing. Love ya, but you don't. God knows her heart...God knows the past and the future...and God knows what YOU need to become closer to Him and what she needs to become closer to Him. Please, I'm begging you, give your marriage to God and trust in Him!!!
<hr /></blockquote>I'm scared of a divorce. I feel in my heart that if there is a divorce, she is gone for good. She will find someone else. I am scared I will be alone, because I will not remarry. What am suppose to do besides pray?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />3) I'll be a little blunt here. Sending the brochure to your W was insulting and controling in her eyes, and here's why. She has very clearly stated that she does not want to work on the marriage at this time. Now, I understand you are not happy about this AND it is not what you want at this time, but you are not respecting her boundary. She said she did not want to work on the relationship, and you keep forcing her to do it your way. If you want to get ANYWHERE with this, stop demanding YOUR way with God and your way with Marie. RESPECT HER!!<hr /></blockquote>Interesting you mentione boundaries. She told me yesterday that I did not know the boundaries within our marriage.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Now, TTSMM, you go to her TONIGHT and apologize for not listening to her and for forcing your way on her.<hr /></blockquote>I don't react well to being treated like a child, a little boy. That is waht this statement is. I lived with my mom until I was 22. But I never cut the cord. Lived with a woman, first fiancee for 2-3 years (don't remember) and I did sever the cord temporarily until we broke up. I was able to sever the cord because she DIDN'T treat me like a child. Moved back in with my mom. Met Marie a few years later. I saw things I liked, BUT, she verbally attacked my parents to me, thinking she was better than they are. She then treated me like a child and I made the cord even stronger. My mom raised me. My dad was out of the picture when I was 10 or so and whe he tried to move back in, I paid the rent and told him he wasn't allowed back in to hurt my mom. So...there is a very strong bond there (was a very strong bond there - she passed away 1 year ago on March 21st). I wanted Marie to treat me like a man, not a little boy. For you ladies, talk TO your H or bf, NOT AT them. AS much as you want to be respected, SO DO WE. Giving us a one word answer, like you're our mother does not cut it. You ladies say that men don't talk, BUT, when we need you to talk more about WHY you don't want us to do or not do something it's "No. You should just understand." BUNK. Sorry, but this is how I feel.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />4) Your Spiritual Director may not have declined to work with you because of YOU--she probably decided to stop working with you because of HER. Let me give you an example. If she had been raped--if she had a friend or relative who was a sex addict--if she had been sexually abused as a child--then SHE may not be able work with you objectively and wisely sue to her own issues. Additionally, if your Spiritual Director truly believes that you are a sex addict and need to attend SAA, then I would recommend at the very least to soften your heart and consider her words. So far, your Spiritual Director has been a very wise council for you, and I believe you trust her. There is no logical reason to believe that her wisdom is suddenly off-course.<hr /></blockquote>I have gone down this road numerous times. Going from thinking I'm an addict to saying "No, this was behavior that I did not get a chance to experience when I was a teenager. Being told that "kissing" leads all the way down to "abortion" to "hell" is a tough thing to hear when you're growing up.
I have spoken with many, many, many, .... people - professionals, family, friends, addicts, etc. on this subject and it's a 50-50 split (that's 50-50 between the groups as well, not just the number sof people). So, this is a very touchy subject to me. I feel like people are pyshco-analyzing me. Yes, I liked my SD, but I don't fully but it. AND I will check into more, again, for the millionth time.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />...there is more to sex addiction than PERVERTED sexual acting out. In other words, it's not about going to XXX porn stores, strip clubs, and hookers. It's about viewing females who are mothers, daughters, and whole human beings as primarily sexual objects. It's about seeing a college-aged girl and seeing only her big tits. It's about cybersex or emails with sexual content or always oogling or always making some lude comment or thinking of sex so often during the day that you can't concentrate or thinking about body parts a majority of the time or touching your own self so often that it's disrupting your life or ... or ....
<hr /></blockquote>I don't view them as sexual objects. I see a pretty woman and I say she has a beautiful figure and nice face and if my thoughts go awry I turn away and say a prayer. I USE to look at women more sexually when I was immersed in my behavior before the A. God made us to be attracted to the opposite sex. So why is thinking that a woman has nice breasts a sin. I didn't say, or think, what I would like to do with those breasts. As you said, they are mothers, daughters, women with minds, etc. Before coming back to God, my mind would wander. Now, NO. SO why do I need to go to SAA?

One therspist, our frmr MC, said, "What would you rather be doing?" "I'd rather be making love to my wife." He has over 20 years experience with sexual addiction. I'm seeing him any more because he is not Christian and has NOT helped our M; having us attend separate sessions until the rift was too big to mend. He knows Marie's atty, and has basically told Marie that I will always be sick. Of course I only have Marie's word on that, he said other things to me about her.

What I will say is that I am very confused by this whole SA thing. With the polling of people I mentioned above; with some very good friends and clergy telling me masturbation is bad and a sin (even if my thoughts are about my W). And now with there being a book called, "Every Man's Battle" then all men are sex addicts? I don't think so.

I am going through a difficult time right now. I want people's prayers and advice, but I don't want to be controlled. YET, if I do something, it's automatically stepping in her boundaries and controlling her. She once placed a book on my desk, "Out of the Shadows". That's not her controlling me...NO...that's her being a loving wife or a vindictive STBXW.

If you hear hostility in this posting I'm sorry. This is what I mean though by being fair. It's OK for one party to do something (my wife and her suggestions through out the M and her "one word answers", I "made" her this way, she is reacting this way because of my actions, BUT, if I do any of that, I'm not opening up, I'm controlling, I'm not being responsible for my actions -blaming others, etc. This UNFAIRNESS makes me sick. This is why I wanted to have a PROFESSIONAL counselling where BOTH parties can be heard. If I say something, I'm rationalising; if she says something it's fact.

I'm SICK OF IT!

Now that I've vented. Can someone direct me to a group, NOT SAA, where a doctor can listen to me and defintely tell me that I am an addcit. Or better yet, pray for me that God WILL SHOW ME THE ANSWER.

I will apologize for stepping past boundaries.

CJ,
Again our posts cross over each other <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

If that is what she is feeling, THEN tell me. Why do you women (most women) think men are suppose to read your minds?

You want openness and honesty from us, TELL US YOUR FEELINGS. When we were going to MC the MC had to tell her several times to say her feelings, NOT only what the facts were.

I feel like giving up completely on life. Even in M there is no fairness. Or one party thinks their actions are fair but if the other party does the same, "Why are you treating me this way?"

Why bring up the bleeping lie detector if you don't want me to take one? I know you don't trust me. So why ask me to do something that would show you you can?

I can't go to SAA or seek help as you say because she through out the M she has HELD ONTO things I said so she can HOLD THEM against me later. Is this what a relationship is suppose to be?

Now accuse me of rationalizing, she does most of the time. Yes, I use to lie, but they were little white lies or fish stories, but ones I wouldn't IMOHO think would be damaging. BUT, I would share with her the truth. She constatnly (not an exaggeration) LB'd with me with DJ. I am a sensitive man, unfortuantely, so to ease my pain from the DJ I learned to lie to her. The more DJ's the more I lied. The more I lied, the easier it got. When I wanted to fix the intimacy side of our M and she rejected that saying that "other things" were more important, add the DJ's on top. I wanted out. Iwas already into chat a year prior. Aco-worker showed me at work. I already looked at mags. Collected them, tossed the mags out. So her rejecting me opened up a world of un-godly possibilities to me. During the A I told her I wanted her to tie me up and whip me. I look at that now and GOD THAT IS SICK and I don't want anything to do with that. I was out of control. I want mad passionate tender sex with Marie. I shy away from any porn humor, sexist remarks, impure thoughts. So why and more importantly when would I stop attending these meetings?

Since she is already holding me going to these meetings against me now (giving all this info to her $%#$^&*(* atty) how do I go for satisfaction alone? So she can "go for the jugular" as she so nicely puts it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Is seeking help, so she can rake me over the coals, the only way I can win back her trust. Is that not her controlling me?

GOD HELP WITH SOME ANSWERS, PLEASE.

Here is a case in point. I once made the comment that I am a joiner. Don't know when I said it. DOn't know the context of why I said it. But sure enough she HOLDS that against me and has told her atty. I joined Lifespring, the men's group, now the church. I'm always looking for answers, looking to find myself. These are her words not mine. Why do you think I sometimes say bleep it I'm not coming back to this forum. From her, going to a therapist is good. But, I do it more than she does something is wrong with me, "I told you you were screwed up." I took Zoloft for a month, on and off. "See, you are crazy, and your depression, you 're sick." But, she takes it and other presribed meds when she thinks I'm having an A and when I tell her the truth, but I caused it. Why is she allowed those comments/feelings/opinions, BUT heaven forbid, I should do the same?

Speaking if which, the other night, she said, "Lord knows, something, something, ..." Then she stopped and apologized while she tried to find words instead of using Lord. Is the HS workingon her heart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ?

This is good for me to let this out. I see some positives.
Another positive? Growing up, I was told that when a women plays with her hair while talking to a boy it is flirtatiousness. Ladies, is this tru? Marie was constantly plyaing with her hair while talking to me during that long discussion. Also, putting her hands behind her head so her bustline (no impure thoughts here) would be accentuated.

AGAIN. HELP ME GOD TO UNDERSTND MARIE.

Enough for now. I have to get back to work.

Love in Christ,
Genesius

[ March 15, 2004, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]

TTSMM,

I am sorry if my posts hurt you. I meant to speak to you bluntly and honestly, as friends would do, but it seems like you were not in a place to hear what I was saying. My guess is that I need to be more sensitive to how much you're hurting.

I do not regard you as a child, I consider you as a fully-grown, mature man and expected to be able to treat you as a man. In my eyes, you no longer need to be treated delicately and with kid gloves, so I wrote based on that thought. I also was envisioning the anvil falling on Wiley Coyote's head...sometimes we need to have a smack on the head to snap us out of it. I also thought that you needed to be humble with Marie and didn't know what words to say.

However, TTSMM, the fact of the matter is that I am responsible for making a poor choice to write right now. I can only imagine that reading my posts added salt to the wound, so I will lay back and bit and try to use wiser judgement in my next post.

Your true and faithful friend,

CJ

P.S. I believe you know in your heart of hearts whether you are or are not a sex addict, TTSMM. It is my understanding that a person does not stop being an addict of any kind after years go by, so if you were once a sex addict, it is probably an issue with which you will have to struggle for your whole life. I myself am an alcoholic and during my college years, I drank myself to dangerous intoxication. Thank God I came to a place in my life where I realized I could not handle it on my own. It has been probably eighteen years since I got drunk, and I drink EXTREMELY rarely now, but not a day goes by when I hurt or ache in my heart that I don't immediately think of numbing out with a beer. TTSMM, I believe you don't need to "poll the experts" and get a consensus--you know in your heart.

CJ/others,
DON'T STOP POSTING.

I need this but I don't want people to think that I don't have a mind of own as well. Kind of like how I treated Marie with the brochure, hmmm.

A year after I admitted to Marie that I was a sex addict (anything to save the M) she told me she saw a sexual addiction counselor on Oprah give proof that people can be cured of sexual addiction. Of course now, she denies that that would ever happen with me.

Maybe we'll talk soon.

TryingToLiveInHisWord

I guess my name is now "Others" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'll admit it TTSMM... I'm feeling frustrated, and absolutely do NOT want to add to your pain either.

I hesitated writing in the first place, because (as I said) I knew my thoughts/suggestions would sting. I don't like saying things that hurt people -- no matter how well intentioned.

Plus, as I also said, I am going through my own personal spiritual crisis (if you will) and do not feel strong in giving Godly advice. My words possibly came from my gut... heck, "possibly" isn't even right... my words definately came from my gut feelings about your situation.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FaithfulWife:

P.S. I believe you know in your heart of hearts whether you are or are not a sex addict, TTSMM. It is my understanding that a person does not stop being an addict of any kind after years go by, so if you were once a sex addict, it is probably an issue with which you will have to struggle for your whole life. I myself am an alcoholic and during my college years, I drank myself to dangerous intoxication. Thank God I came to a place in my life where I realized I could not handle it on my own. It has been probably eighteen years since I got drunk, and I drink EXTREMELY rarely now, but not a day goes by when I hurt or ache in my heart that I don't immediately think of numbing out with a beer. TTSMM, I believe you don't need to "poll the experts" and get a consensus--you know in your heart. <hr /></blockquote>CJ is so right on here that I am compelled to applaud her.

I have been dancing around the edges of my addictions for years and years, TTSMM. I know that given the opportunity (and the desire to fall back) I too could fall headlong into a life of addictions. Doesn't even matter what they are, trust me, I have them, and have dealt with this my entire life. I know in my soul they exist. I don't need anyone, or any test, to tell me they exist. I KNOW.

Like CJ, I would bet dollars to donuts you know too -- deep in your heart when you're all alone with you, your thoughts, and God -- YOU KNOW.

Please think about what is being said to you. Whether it is God (CJ's posts to you), or just a nagging gut feeling (my posts to you), the thoughts shared with you are not meant to hurt you. They are meant to help - if you will let them.

God Bless... from the bottom of my heart.

Sheryl,

You are a woman among women! A person of such strong character that I wish I could sing your praises from the top of the Rockies. A woman of value like you, who can find? For her worth is far more than rubies or diamonds.

I love you like my twin. Seriously.

CJ

CJ,

That little body of yours sure can sing loud praises!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> + <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> = I love you too

Thank you...

Funny, no guys have replied. My W would love that, me surrounded by all you women <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

On a serious note. I'm talking out loud here. Why is it that things Marie has told me, or showed me, or argued with me about are "suggstions" but I do the same and it is "controlling"? But it is not just Marie, I get these reactions from many people. I feel trapped like I am just suppose to follow whatever someone tells (suggests) to me, but if I defend myself or "suggest" something back, people run away..."you're difficult, you're controlling me, I thought you could take criticism like a man".

If everything I do is controlling, comes off as controlling, what am I suppose to do? Am I suppose to never ask for advice because the person giving the advice will run away and put it back on me if I defend against their advice? Am I suppose to never give advice, suggestions, make a comment, because it will always come off as controlling?

This is extrememly frustrating. It goes back to what I was saying about fairness. It's OK for people to make suggestions to me, but I can't defend or make suggestions back. Is this a form of paronoia?, feels like it. I just sepnt the last five minutes surfing the Internet to find the right name for it.

Every time I feel I have taken command of my life, (LifeSpring, my former Mens group, now my Catholic faith) I have someone TELL me what I am doing wrong and what I should do. I am not talking about anyone of you ladies in particular, because if it wasn't you, it would have been someone else. That just seems to be the way it is going to be with me. I just want to know why? Why do I feel everyone should have their own feelings, thoughts, emotions, etc., but when I express my mine, I am not allowed to feel and BE me. There always a DJ.

Like with the SA. I definitely acted out of control (of myself) during the years prior to my A and during it. Collecting magazines, chatting, etc. I denied being an SA to Marie for so long, that I just finally GAVE IN from her consistent "badgering". I feel like it was just to shut her up. I feel that that was adolescent behavior that I DID NOT EXPERIENCE WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER. Could I look at a mag right now and not be affected by it. I beleive so. When I checked out the MA cable movies a month or so back, I fel GUILTY in front of God. AND, I didn't have thoughts of THOSE women, I had thoughts of Marie and I making love. I'm very visual. Of course if Marie read this, "You're rationalizing again." Yeah, my explanations come off as rationalizations, but hers, yours, everyone elses, comes off as fact. Oh Boy, talk about paranoia.

I'm on a roller coaster right now. I can say in my heart of hearts, "I am NOT a sex addict". Those of you who are addicts will go,"He's in denial." I don't think about sex every ten seconds, mnutes or hours. I think about the intimate times with Marie when I see other couples in love. I will admit that when I see Marie wearing tight slacks in the house, my mind wanders to (keeping clean here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) her soft butt in my hands; looking into her eyes; feeling her soul; holding her again and being passionate all night long.

But then, someone will come along and, like of of you, or Marie will bring it up again, "You are a sex addict. Addicts are addicts forever. Chahnge is impossible." The rest of the litany of c**p that goes with it. Then I will start to think, "Maybe their right. I am in denial. Doesn't matter that I have chatted in 5 years; gone to a strip club, or looked at a mag in nearly a year; rented a video tape in over 3-4 years. I must be a sex addict ready to explode into my dark side again."

So what do I do now? I know I have peeved some of you off. I know some of you will give up on "trying to reach Trying" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I know some of you will think, "He has a lot of anger in him, and he needs help." Some will think, "I think the man doth protest too much."

I prayed to God to just take me NOW into HIs Glory if this is what I have to deal with the rest of my life.

"Dear Father, you have given me so many gifts. Show me Your plan on what to do with these gifts. Show me Your plan for my life. Show me how to stop struggling with people, looking for fairness, unfairly. Show if I am a sex addict or a man who sinned, and is in control of himself through your grace. I ask this of You Father, by the Precious Heart of Your Son, my Lord and Savior, my Peace and Joy, my Love and Mercy, Jesus Christ. Amen.

trying,

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Funny, no guys have replied.<hr /></blockquote>Hey dude I'm a guy. Just thought I'd check in and see what's going on. I'm actually on vacation right now. Easy to check in here cause not much going on in Albuquerque right now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Why is it that things Marie has told me, or showed me, or argued with me about are "suggstions" but I do the same and it is "controlling"?<hr /></blockquote>I've read some really good stuff here for you. But I want to tell you, the reasons you do something and it's called controlling these. One, your W is still in a fog. ...and two, Your W believes you are not to be trusted. Yet you continue to try to "educate" her. You (deserved or not) are unreliable to her and therefore cannot be trusted. This is why CJ said you were in God's way when you try to work on your M. Or try to get your W to work on the M.

How would you react to someone you "know" has lied to you? Really put yourself in her shoes.

Do you want to know why my M is in recovery? It is in recovery because I did not try to educate my W on the M. My W went to three counseling sessions the last three weeks in Dec. 2001. I continued to go; by myself; until last March.

Your W will not be educated by any one but the Holy Spirit (if even that). If you are in denial about anything; it is that.

I'm sorry if that seems rough, but I need to get your attention here.

Take people's advice here and put it through your God filter. Mine included!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Am I suppose to never give advice, suggestions, make a comment, because it will always come off as controlling?<hr /></blockquote>You will only come off as controling if the personyou are talking to is in the fog sort of speak. They don't want to here what you have to say. Doesn't mean that it isn't correct. It just means that the person isn't ready to hear you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />It's OK for people to make suggestions to me, but I can't defend or make suggestions back. Is this a form of paronoia?, feels like it.<hr /></blockquote>The people you are getting information from are not sitting smack dab in the middle of your life like you are. They can see from a less emotional view point. You thinking can sometimes be clouded by your emotions and closeness to the situation. That is why trusting God is so very important

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Every time I feel I have taken command of my life, (LifeSpring, my former Mens group, now my Catholic faith) I have someone TELL me what I am doing wrong and what I should do. I am not talking about anyone of you ladies in particular, because if it wasn't you, it would have been someone else.<hr /></blockquote>Was this me?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I can say in my heart of hearts, "I am NOT a sex addict".<hr /></blockquote>Good continue to life that truth. Truth sometimes takes time to be revealed. And this truth will be revealed to your W in time. BTW, even if someone isn't; there's nothing wrong with taking the same precautions and addict would.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I prayed to God to just take me NOW into HIs Glory if this is what I have to deal with the rest of my life.<hr /></blockquote>I guess He answered your prayer. You haven't been taken into His Glory just yet my friend. Cause you aren't going to have to deal with this the rest of your life.

I know you are hurting and it feels like cr@p right now. But you really need to understand some things. Stop working on your marriage. Work on you. Stop trying to get her to do things you want her to do. It is just reinforcing what she thinks about you!!! Work on you!

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Originally quoted by FaithfulWife:

RESPECT HER!! Now, TTSMM, you go to her TONIGHT and apologize for not listening to her and for forcing your way on her. Here's how it should go:

"I am completely responsible for disrespecting you and not honoring your boundaries, and I am sorry that I forced my opinion on you and sent the brochure. I can see how you would feel angry and hurt and unimportant, because I do not even treat you as if you were valuable enough to have your own limits and feelings. For now, I hear you that you do not want to work on our relationship, and even though I very much want us to be reconciled, I will respect you and respect your boundaries regarding our relationship. I encourage you to do what you believe you need to do in order to feel safe. Will you please forgive me for disregarding your boundary and disrespecting you?"<hr /></blockquote>Trying, this is probably the single most important thing you could do right now. It is so full of wisdom. I doubt CJ intended to treat you like a child when she said this. I had to have someone to the pretty much the same thing to me. (Sometimes us guys just don't get it.)

Unless you have a better way of putting it w/o attaching any strings to it, the go right on ahead with it.

I love you my brother, that's why I'm not waiting to return home to send this to you. I won't get mad if you don't take my advice, but I will be sad to see you continue in your situation and frustrated that I am having a hard time helping you.

Blessing my friend. I'll check back later. (or e-mail me).

S&C