TTSMM,

It seems to me that you are concentrating on proving the facts rather than hearing her message. If you go take a lie-detector test to "prove" there have been no other women since your A, what do you gain? You force your W to see that you are right and she is wrong! How will that win her heart? How will that respect her? How will that in any way advance your goal of winning back your wife??

What she is saying to you is "I loved you and trusted you, and you betrayed my trust and hurt me. I feel like I've been betrayed more than once and every time I tried again and believed in you, I found more evidence of betrayal and loving someone else and sexual impropriety--if not in body, in thought. You HURT me!!! I don't believe you love me more than you love thinking about sex. I can't be hurt anymore or I will die and lose myself."

And your response to that is going to be: "See? I TOLD you I didn't have sex with any other women!"

Gee, Genesius! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Go tell your wife you understand she is afraid to trust you. Go tell her that you love only her and that given your history, it's understable why she would be afraid. Go tell her that you love her more than you love impure sexual thoughts, and that you are willing to look at yourself and seek help.

A lie-detector does not and will not solve anything. It would only be forcing it down her throat that she can not feel like she feels.

Sigh.


CJ

CJ,
Honest answers here.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1) God does not want divorce, and if you are hearing people encourage you to let your marriage go, you should ignore them for they are not speaking from God.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know. I am very confused by what many in the clergy have told me. I am calling another priest today who my SD had recommended (actually he is a colleague of the priest she recommended, because he so booked).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">2) YOU are trying to save your marriage, and YOU are standing in God's way. Give your marriage to Him and take your hands off of it. TTSMM, you keep TRYING and struggling and fighting and attempting to make God do it YOUR way, and you do not know what you're doing. Love ya, but you don't. God knows her heart...God knows the past and the future...and God knows what YOU need to become closer to Him and what she needs to become closer to Him. Please, I'm begging you, give your marriage to God and trust in Him!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm scared of a divorce. I feel in my heart that if there is a divorce, she is gone for good. She will find someone else. I am scared I will be alone, because I will not remarry. What am suppose to do besides pray?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3) I'll be a little blunt here. Sending the brochure to your W was insulting and controling in her eyes, and here's why. She has very clearly stated that she does not want to work on the marriage at this time. Now, I understand you are not happy about this AND it is not what you want at this time, but you are not respecting her boundary. She said she did not want to work on the relationship, and you keep forcing her to do it your way. If you want to get ANYWHERE with this, stop demanding YOUR way with God and your way with Marie. RESPECT HER!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Interesting you mentione boundaries. She told me yesterday that I did not know the boundaries within our marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Now, TTSMM, you go to her TONIGHT and apologize for not listening to her and for forcing your way on her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't react well to being treated like a child, a little boy. That is waht this statement is. I lived with my mom until I was 22. But I never cut the cord. Lived with a woman, first fiancee for 2-3 years (don't remember) and I did sever the cord temporarily until we broke up. I was able to sever the cord because she DIDN'T treat me like a child. Moved back in with my mom. Met Marie a few years later. I saw things I liked, BUT, she verbally attacked my parents to me, thinking she was better than they are. She then treated me like a child and I made the cord even stronger. My mom raised me. My dad was out of the picture when I was 10 or so and whe he tried to move back in, I paid the rent and told him he wasn't allowed back in to hurt my mom. So...there is a very strong bond there (was a very strong bond there - she passed away 1 year ago on March 21st). I wanted Marie to treat me like a man, not a little boy. For you ladies, talk TO your H or bf, NOT AT them. AS much as you want to be respected, SO DO WE. Giving us a one word answer, like you're our mother does not cut it. You ladies say that men don't talk, BUT, when we need you to talk more about WHY you don't want us to do or not do something it's "No. You should just understand." BUNK. Sorry, but this is how I feel.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4) Your Spiritual Director may not have declined to work with you because of YOU--she probably decided to stop working with you because of HER. Let me give you an example. If she had been raped--if she had a friend or relative who was a sex addict--if she had been sexually abused as a child--then SHE may not be able work with you objectively and wisely sue to her own issues. Additionally, if your Spiritual Director truly believes that you are a sex addict and need to attend SAA, then I would recommend at the very least to soften your heart and consider her words. So far, your Spiritual Director has been a very wise council for you, and I believe you trust her. There is no logical reason to believe that her wisdom is suddenly off-course.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have gone down this road numerous times. Going from thinking I'm an addict to saying "No, this was behavior that I did not get a chance to experience when I was a teenager. Being told that "kissing" leads all the way down to "abortion" to "hell" is a tough thing to hear when you're growing up.
I have spoken with many, many, many, .... people - professionals, family, friends, addicts, etc. on this subject and it's a 50-50 split (that's 50-50 between the groups as well, not just the number sof people). So, this is a very touchy subject to me. I feel like people are pyshco-analyzing me. Yes, I liked my SD, but I don't fully but it. AND I will check into more, again, for the millionth time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...there is more to sex addiction than PERVERTED sexual acting out. In other words, it's not about going to XXX porn stores, strip clubs, and hookers. It's about viewing females who are mothers, daughters, and whole human beings as primarily sexual objects. It's about seeing a college-aged girl and seeing only her big tits. It's about cybersex or emails with sexual content or always oogling or always making some lude comment or thinking of sex so often during the day that you can't concentrate or thinking about body parts a majority of the time or touching your own self so often that it's disrupting your life or ... or ....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't view them as sexual objects. I see a pretty woman and I say she has a beautiful figure and nice face and if my thoughts go awry I turn away and say a prayer. I USE to look at women more sexually when I was immersed in my behavior before the A. God made us to be attracted to the opposite sex. So why is thinking that a woman has nice breasts a sin. I didn't say, or think, what I would like to do with those breasts. As you said, they are mothers, daughters, women with minds, etc. Before coming back to God, my mind would wander. Now, NO. SO why do I need to go to SAA?

One therspist, our frmr MC, said, "What would you rather be doing?" "I'd rather be making love to my wife." He has over 20 years experience with sexual addiction. I'm seeing him any more because he is not Christian and has NOT helped our M; having us attend separate sessions until the rift was too big to mend. He knows Marie's atty, and has basically told Marie that I will always be sick. Of course I only have Marie's word on that, he said other things to me about her.

What I will say is that I am very confused by this whole SA thing. With the polling of people I mentioned above; with some very good friends and clergy telling me masturbation is bad and a sin (even if my thoughts are about my W). And now with there being a book called, "Every Man's Battle" then all men are sex addicts? I don't think so.

I am going through a difficult time right now. I want people's prayers and advice, but I don't want to be controlled. YET, if I do something, it's automatically stepping in her boundaries and controlling her. She once placed a book on my desk, "Out of the Shadows". That's not her controlling me...NO...that's her being a loving wife or a vindictive STBXW.

If you hear hostility in this posting I'm sorry. This is what I mean though by being fair. It's OK for one party to do something (my wife and her suggestions through out the M and her "one word answers", I "made" her this way, she is reacting this way because of my actions, BUT, if I do any of that, I'm not opening up, I'm controlling, I'm not being responsible for my actions -blaming others, etc. This UNFAIRNESS makes me sick. This is why I wanted to have a PROFESSIONAL counselling where BOTH parties can be heard. If I say something, I'm rationalising; if she says something it's fact.

I'm SICK OF IT!

Now that I've vented. Can someone direct me to a group, NOT SAA, where a doctor can listen to me and defintely tell me that I am an addcit. Or better yet, pray for me that God WILL SHOW ME THE ANSWER.

I will apologize for stepping past boundaries.

CJ,
Again our posts cross over each other <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

If that is what she is feeling, THEN tell me. Why do you women (most women) think men are suppose to read your minds?

You want openness and honesty from us, TELL US YOUR FEELINGS. When we were going to MC the MC had to tell her several times to say her feelings, NOT only what the facts were.

I feel like giving up completely on life. Even in M there is no fairness. Or one party thinks their actions are fair but if the other party does the same, "Why are you treating me this way?"

Why bring up the bleeping lie detector if you don't want me to take one? I know you don't trust me. So why ask me to do something that would show you you can?

I can't go to SAA or seek help as you say because she through out the M she has HELD ONTO things I said so she can HOLD THEM against me later. Is this what a relationship is suppose to be?

Now accuse me of rationalizing, she does most of the time. Yes, I use to lie, but they were little white lies or fish stories, but ones I wouldn't IMOHO think would be damaging. BUT, I would share with her the truth. She constatnly (not an exaggeration) LB'd with me with DJ. I am a sensitive man, unfortuantely, so to ease my pain from the DJ I learned to lie to her. The more DJ's the more I lied. The more I lied, the easier it got. When I wanted to fix the intimacy side of our M and she rejected that saying that "other things" were more important, add the DJ's on top. I wanted out. Iwas already into chat a year prior. Aco-worker showed me at work. I already looked at mags. Collected them, tossed the mags out. So her rejecting me opened up a world of un-godly possibilities to me. During the A I told her I wanted her to tie me up and whip me. I look at that now and GOD THAT IS SICK and I don't want anything to do with that. I was out of control. I want mad passionate tender sex with Marie. I shy away from any porn humor, sexist remarks, impure thoughts. So why and more importantly when would I stop attending these meetings?

Since she is already holding me going to these meetings against me now (giving all this info to her $%#$^&*(* atty) how do I go for satisfaction alone? So she can "go for the jugular" as she so nicely puts it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Is seeking help, so she can rake me over the coals, the only way I can win back her trust. Is that not her controlling me?

GOD HELP WITH SOME ANSWERS, PLEASE.

Here is a case in point. I once made the comment that I am a joiner. Don't know when I said it. DOn't know the context of why I said it. But sure enough she HOLDS that against me and has told her atty. I joined Lifespring, the men's group, now the church. I'm always looking for answers, looking to find myself. These are her words not mine. Why do you think I sometimes say bleep it I'm not coming back to this forum. From her, going to a therapist is good. But, I do it more than she does something is wrong with me, "I told you you were screwed up." I took Zoloft for a month, on and off. "See, you are crazy, and your depression, you 're sick." But, she takes it and other presribed meds when she thinks I'm having an A and when I tell her the truth, but I caused it. Why is she allowed those comments/feelings/opinions, BUT heaven forbid, I should do the same?

Speaking if which, the other night, she said, "Lord knows, something, something, ..." Then she stopped and apologized while she tried to find words instead of using Lord. Is the HS workingon her heart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ?

This is good for me to let this out. I see some positives.
Another positive? Growing up, I was told that when a women plays with her hair while talking to a boy it is flirtatiousness. Ladies, is this tru? Marie was constantly plyaing with her hair while talking to me during that long discussion. Also, putting her hands behind her head so her bustline (no impure thoughts here) would be accentuated.

AGAIN. HELP ME GOD TO UNDERSTND MARIE.

Enough for now. I have to get back to work.

Love in Christ,
Genesius

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

TTSMM,

I am sorry if my posts hurt you. I meant to speak to you bluntly and honestly, as friends would do, but it seems like you were not in a place to hear what I was saying. My guess is that I need to be more sensitive to how much you're hurting.

I do not regard you as a child, I consider you as a fully-grown, mature man and expected to be able to treat you as a man. In my eyes, you no longer need to be treated delicately and with kid gloves, so I wrote based on that thought. I also was envisioning the anvil falling on Wiley Coyote's head...sometimes we need to have a smack on the head to snap us out of it. I also thought that you needed to be humble with Marie and didn't know what words to say.

However, TTSMM, the fact of the matter is that I am responsible for making a poor choice to write right now. I can only imagine that reading my posts added salt to the wound, so I will lay back and bit and try to use wiser judgement in my next post.

Your true and faithful friend,


CJ

P.S. I believe you know in your heart of hearts whether you are or are not a sex addict, TTSMM. It is my understanding that a person does not stop being an addict of any kind after years go by, so if you were once a sex addict, it is probably an issue with which you will have to struggle for your whole life. I myself am an alcoholic and during my college years, I drank myself to dangerous intoxication. Thank God I came to a place in my life where I realized I could not handle it on my own. It has been probably eighteen years since I got drunk, and I drink EXTREMELY rarely now, but not a day goes by when I hurt or ache in my heart that I don't immediately think of numbing out with a beer. TTSMM, I believe you don't need to "poll the experts" and get a consensus--you know in your heart.

CJ/others,
DON'T STOP POSTING.

I need this but I don't want people to think that I don't have a mind of own as well. Kind of like how I treated Marie with the brochure, hmmm.

A year after I admitted to Marie that I was a sex addict (anything to save the M) she told me she saw a sexual addiction counselor on Oprah give proof that people can be cured of sexual addiction. Of course now, she denies that that would ever happen with me.

Maybe we'll talk soon.

TryingToLiveInHisWord

I guess my name is now "Others" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'll admit it TTSMM... I'm feeling frustrated, and absolutely do NOT want to add to your pain either.

I hesitated writing in the first place, because (as I said) I knew my thoughts/suggestions would sting. I don't like saying things that hurt people -- no matter how well intentioned.

Plus, as I also said, I am going through my own personal spiritual crisis (if you will) and do not feel strong in giving Godly advice. My words possibly came from my gut... heck, "possibly" isn't even right... my words definately came from my gut feelings about your situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FaithfulWife:
<strong>
P.S. I believe you know in your heart of hearts whether you are or are not a sex addict, TTSMM. It is my understanding that a person does not stop being an addict of any kind after years go by, so if you were once a sex addict, it is probably an issue with which you will have to struggle for your whole life. I myself am an alcoholic and during my college years, I drank myself to dangerous intoxication. Thank God I came to a place in my life where I realized I could not handle it on my own. It has been probably eighteen years since I got drunk, and I drink EXTREMELY rarely now, but not a day goes by when I hurt or ache in my heart that I don't immediately think of numbing out with a beer. TTSMM, I believe you don't need to "poll the experts" and get a consensus--you know in your heart. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">CJ is so right on here that I am compelled to applaud her.

I have been dancing around the edges of my addictions for years and years, TTSMM. I know that given the opportunity (and the desire to fall back) I too could fall headlong into a life of addictions. Doesn't even matter what they are, trust me, I have them, and have dealt with this my entire life. I know in my soul they exist. I don't need anyone, or any test, to tell me they exist. I KNOW.

Like CJ, I would bet dollars to donuts you know too -- deep in your heart when you're all alone with you, your thoughts, and God -- YOU KNOW.

Please think about what is being said to you. Whether it is God (CJ's posts to you), or just a nagging gut feeling (my posts to you), the thoughts shared with you are not meant to hurt you. They are meant to help - if you will let them.

God Bless... from the bottom of my heart.

Sheryl,

You are a woman among women! A person of such strong character that I wish I could sing your praises from the top of the Rockies. A woman of value like you, who can find? For her worth is far more than rubies or diamonds.

I love you like my twin. Seriously.


CJ

CJ,

That little body of yours sure can sing loud praises!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> + <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> = I love you too

Thank you...

Funny, no guys have replied. My W would love that, me surrounded by all you women <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

On a serious note. I'm talking out loud here. Why is it that things Marie has told me, or showed me, or argued with me about are "suggstions" but I do the same and it is "controlling"? But it is not just Marie, I get these reactions from many people. I feel trapped like I am just suppose to follow whatever someone tells (suggests) to me, but if I defend myself or "suggest" something back, people run away..."you're difficult, you're controlling me, I thought you could take criticism like a man".

If everything I do is controlling, comes off as controlling, what am I suppose to do? Am I suppose to never ask for advice because the person giving the advice will run away and put it back on me if I defend against their advice? Am I suppose to never give advice, suggestions, make a comment, because it will always come off as controlling?

This is extrememly frustrating. It goes back to what I was saying about fairness. It's OK for people to make suggestions to me, but I can't defend or make suggestions back. Is this a form of paronoia?, feels like it. I just sepnt the last five minutes surfing the Internet to find the right name for it.

Every time I feel I have taken command of my life, (LifeSpring, my former Mens group, now my Catholic faith) I have someone TELL me what I am doing wrong and what I should do. I am not talking about anyone of you ladies in particular, because if it wasn't you, it would have been someone else. That just seems to be the way it is going to be with me. I just want to know why? Why do I feel everyone should have their own feelings, thoughts, emotions, etc., but when I express my mine, I am not allowed to feel and BE me. There always a DJ.

Like with the SA. I definitely acted out of control (of myself) during the years prior to my A and during it. Collecting magazines, chatting, etc. I denied being an SA to Marie for so long, that I just finally GAVE IN from her consistent "badgering". I feel like it was just to shut her up. I feel that that was adolescent behavior that I DID NOT EXPERIENCE WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER. Could I look at a mag right now and not be affected by it. I beleive so. When I checked out the MA cable movies a month or so back, I fel GUILTY in front of God. AND, I didn't have thoughts of THOSE women, I had thoughts of Marie and I making love. I'm very visual. Of course if Marie read this, "You're rationalizing again." Yeah, my explanations come off as rationalizations, but hers, yours, everyone elses, comes off as fact. Oh Boy, talk about paranoia.

I'm on a roller coaster right now. I can say in my heart of hearts, "I am NOT a sex addict". Those of you who are addicts will go,"He's in denial." I don't think about sex every ten seconds, mnutes or hours. I think about the intimate times with Marie when I see other couples in love. I will admit that when I see Marie wearing tight slacks in the house, my mind wanders to (keeping clean here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) her soft butt in my hands; looking into her eyes; feeling her soul; holding her again and being passionate all night long.

But then, someone will come along and, like of of you, or Marie will bring it up again, "You are a sex addict. Addicts are addicts forever. Chahnge is impossible." The rest of the litany of c**p that goes with it. Then I will start to think, "Maybe their right. I am in denial. Doesn't matter that I have chatted in 5 years; gone to a strip club, or looked at a mag in nearly a year; rented a video tape in over 3-4 years. I must be a sex addict ready to explode into my dark side again."

So what do I do now? I know I have peeved some of you off. I know some of you will give up on "trying to reach Trying" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I know some of you will think, "He has a lot of anger in him, and he needs help." Some will think, "I think the man doth protest too much."

I prayed to God to just take me NOW into HIs Glory if this is what I have to deal with the rest of my life.

"Dear Father, you have given me so many gifts. Show me Your plan on what to do with these gifts. Show me Your plan for my life. Show me how to stop struggling with people, looking for fairness, unfairly. Show if I am a sex addict or a man who sinned, and is in control of himself through your grace. I ask this of You Father, by the Precious Heart of Your Son, my Lord and Savior, my Peace and Joy, my Love and Mercy, Jesus Christ. Amen.

trying,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny, no guys have replied.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey dude I'm a guy. Just thought I'd check in and see what's going on. I'm actually on vacation right now. Easy to check in here cause not much going on in Albuquerque right now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it that things Marie has told me, or showed me, or argued with me about are "suggstions" but I do the same and it is "controlling"?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've read some really good stuff here for you. But I want to tell you, the reasons you do something and it's called controlling these. One, your W is still in a fog. ...and two, Your W believes you are not to be trusted. Yet you continue to try to "educate" her. You (deserved or not) are unreliable to her and therefore cannot be trusted. This is why CJ said you were in God's way when you try to work on your M. Or try to get your W to work on the M.

How would you react to someone you "know" has lied to you? Really put yourself in her shoes.

Do you want to know why my M is in recovery? It is in recovery because I did not try to educate my W on the M. My W went to three counseling sessions the last three weeks in Dec. 2001. I continued to go; by myself; until last March.

Your W will not be educated by any one but the Holy Spirit (if even that). If you are in denial about anything; it is that.

I'm sorry if that seems rough, but I need to get your attention here.

Take people's advice here and put it through your God filter. Mine included!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I suppose to never give advice, suggestions, make a comment, because it will always come off as controlling?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You will only come off as controling if the personyou are talking to is in the fog sort of speak. They don't want to here what you have to say. Doesn't mean that it isn't correct. It just means that the person isn't ready to hear you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's OK for people to make suggestions to me, but I can't defend or make suggestions back. Is this a form of paronoia?, feels like it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The people you are getting information from are not sitting smack dab in the middle of your life like you are. They can see from a less emotional view point. You thinking can sometimes be clouded by your emotions and closeness to the situation. That is why trusting God is so very important


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Every time I feel I have taken command of my life, (LifeSpring, my former Mens group, now my Catholic faith) I have someone TELL me what I am doing wrong and what I should do. I am not talking about anyone of you ladies in particular, because if it wasn't you, it would have been someone else.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Was this me?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can say in my heart of hearts, "I am NOT a sex addict".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good continue to life that truth. Truth sometimes takes time to be revealed. And this truth will be revealed to your W in time. BTW, even if someone isn't; there's nothing wrong with taking the same precautions and addict would.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I prayed to God to just take me NOW into HIs Glory if this is what I have to deal with the rest of my life.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess He answered your prayer. You haven't been taken into His Glory just yet my friend. Cause you aren't going to have to deal with this the rest of your life.

I know you are hurting and it feels like cr@p right now. But you really need to understand some things. Stop working on your marriage. Work on you. Stop trying to get her to do things you want her to do. It is just reinforcing what she thinks about you!!! Work on you!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Originally quoted by FaithfulWife:

RESPECT HER!! Now, TTSMM, you go to her TONIGHT and apologize for not listening to her and for forcing your way on her. Here's how it should go:

"I am completely responsible for disrespecting you and not honoring your boundaries, and I am sorry that I forced my opinion on you and sent the brochure. I can see how you would feel angry and hurt and unimportant, because I do not even treat you as if you were valuable enough to have your own limits and feelings. For now, I hear you that you do not want to work on our relationship, and even though I very much want us to be reconciled, I will respect you and respect your boundaries regarding our relationship. I encourage you to do what you believe you need to do in order to feel safe. Will you please forgive me for disregarding your boundary and disrespecting you?"</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trying, this is probably the single most important thing you could do right now. It is so full of wisdom. I doubt CJ intended to treat you like a child when she said this. I had to have someone to the pretty much the same thing to me. (Sometimes us guys just don't get it.)

Unless you have a better way of putting it w/o attaching any strings to it, the go right on ahead with it.

I love you my brother, that's why I'm not waiting to return home to send this to you. I won't get mad if you don't take my advice, but I will be sad to see you continue in your situation and frustrated that I am having a hard time helping you.

Blessing my friend. I'll check back later. (or e-mail me).

S&C