Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
I'll try to keep this short.
My spiritual director lead me the Archdiocese website where I can borrow tapes on a variety of topics. (I have been looking for websites, books, resources - Catholic - for saving my marriage. I have only been able to find Christian materials. Every Catholic, except for family and close friends, have told me to prepare for the D and that the church nows makes it easier for annulments).
I called the Archdiocese yesterday and nice woman said she would look through the tape collection to find ones on (stopping a D if only 1 S wants to save it, being unequally yoked, and infidelity). She cam back to me saying she spoke to the director of the Family Life ministry, and that she wanted to speak to me.

God also blessed me yesterday by having me open up to one of the moderators of my Employment Network group at the church. She told me to do whatever I can to save the M. Only the second Catholic to say save it. She said try to get Marie into MC, for the sake of the children etc.

Today I spoke to the Family Life Director, and she re-affirmed some things about how my W feels. "Maybe she'll forgive me, but trust will be something that will be always difficult for her with me; and possibly another man in the future." She told me other things as well. She told me about a weekend that they provide for couples where there is still a slight chance of saving it. I told her Marie's state of mind and that it will be nearly impossible.
Anyway, I asked her to send me the info: one to my job, one to our home. She said she would address the one to our home to Marie (gulp). I agreed.

Need your wisdom. When she receives this, I feel she is going to go BALISTIC! Do I tell her about it ahead of time? Do I wait for her to bring up about the letter? Once it is out in the open, I will be telling her that this will be for us to learn how to be civil and friendly with each other for the sake of the children when we do D.
If you can't/won't offer me your advice, please lead me to particular scripture that you feel will enlighten me.

I have to tell you, I am scared. I don't want to have the big arguments again. BUT, this might be from God to save my M and Marie's soul.

The letter could arrive as early as tomorrow (gulp, gulp)!

Please pray for God to show me His Will, and for Him to soften Marie's heart to discuss and attend this.

I'm editted this, adding to this.

I just received an email from my Spiritual Director, and because of experiences in her past (based on my past issues of pornography, etc.) she will no longer be my SD. She suggested I go SAA meetings and find a therapist. Is God giiving me more signs? I am very hurt by this decision and even more confused.

Pray for enlightenment for me.

God be by my side.

Peace,
ttsmm

<small>[ March 11, 2004, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Update.

Marie rec'd the letter and called me at work furious. She said it is over, she doesn't love me, etc. I told her it was for us to get along while the proceedings continue. She said she is being civil with me by ignoring me. I told this would help us respect each other. Anyway, no go on her going.

Putting my feelings out here. I am hurt that noone replied to this post. Just my myown stuff. Sorry.

Peace,
ttsmm

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
Hi Trying,

I did read your post yesterday, but have been a little bruised from some things last week, and haven't replied. I'm sorry.

Just like you - this is *my* stuff, but I'm sorry your feelings were hurt. I know how that feels.

Also, I'm sorry about your spiritual director. It must feel like a slap in the face.

When it rains, it pours, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Listen, I knew in my heart that that letter was gonna be trouble. I knew it, and would have said something, but it had already been sent by the time you wrote! What's to do at that point but wait and see?

Let me give you my advice, and it's simply that: advice. I'm no expert - far from it, in fact - but my feelings may spark something in you, we'll see.

You're trying too hard. Let go.

That's my advice. Take it as you will.

Go to your SAA meetings, continue to seek God's guidance, and... one more thing that I hesitate to say, but feel led to... quit trying to manipulate your wife. Before you tell me that you aren't manipulating her, consider this -- you knew how she'd feel about that letter </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When she receives this, I feel she is going to go BALISTIC! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and you let it be sent anyway. You are trying to educate and manipulate her - STOP IT.

I'm not yelling, just used caps for emphesis.

God bless you as you continue down this rocky road -- in fact, it's rocky enough without your adding boulders, okay?

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
nb,
First, I want to apologize for my words because they might be harsh.

My spiritual director (former) told me about tapes available from the Archdiocese. I called the Archdiocese for these tapes, and the woman helping me told the director of theFamily ministry about my situation. The director then wanted to speak to me. I left a message for her. The next day I prayed to God for guidance and support. The director told me about Retorvaulle(sp). She told how come my wife is acting/re-acting the way she is and things to expect; forgiveness - maybe, trust - very difficult but possible. She said to me, "what have you got to lose?" I told her to send me info to my house and my job. She suggested, not I, that she was going to address it to her.

Now to today. Yes, my wife went balistic as I thought she might (and there was always the possiblity she might give it some thought). So from your response, would it be safe to say that the devil was leading me by a godly person to make matters worse? No. It was not control, and I don't by your explanation. Sorry. The opportunity was offerred to her.

When I came home, there was NO mention of the letter. While she was upstairs, I checked the garbage and found the envelope, but not its contents. Hmmm, why wasn't that thrown out? Also, this morning, when I prayed at the Tabernacle, I asked God to help approach this, her response, with love, understanding and humilty. Guess what, I did. I explained to her that it was for us to respect each other in front of the kids, etc. I didn't get angry, guilt her into it, or any other past CONTROLLING behavior and reactions.

As for SAA... I have spoken to to many people: religious and non, therapist, clergy, secular, sex addicts and non. Verdict is 50-50. I don't spend all day on thoughts of sex. I don't go into porn mag stores, sex clubs, strip joints. I don't flirt with other women. No chat rooms since the affair (over five years). I know if I don't stay with the Lord, I can fall again. I knwo I can't do it alone, I need Him. But, I do not need a group to help with that matter. In fact I can help others with that matter, and I do when I see people going down the wrong road. One of the reasons I stay at this site. God has me here because I am one of the "odd balls": a believing WS married to a non-believing BS who is no longer in the fog and wants to save the marriage.

Sorry, again, for the tone of this post. I have been let down (slapped in the face, I believe you put it) by my former SD, only two Catholics outside of my family have encouraged me to save it (even my pastors, and church leaders say "anulments are easy now days"), my reading the Bible and finding that ALL/MOST of the Christian faith re-writes it to their own taste. So I am very weary.

I am going to check out retore ministries, and whatever the other one that is always being suggested. So tell me, besides prayer (and I am NOT doubting the power of prayer), what else is the standing spouse suppose to do? Every actionn will be considered control. "Gene, is their money in the account to buy <this>?" I answer, "No"., then I am controlling her. So every action is control.

With Retorvaulle(sp), the home page states that this is something that many courts, judges and lawyers have couples doing before they grant the divorce. So I intend to ask my atty to push for this when/if we go to court. Is this considered "controlling" her? I don't think so.

Peace in Christ,
ttsmm

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
No need for an apology TTSMM, but it is accepted anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Okay, listen... I am far from an expert on your situation, and all I can tell you is what I see - and yes, I probably have a bias, because I was once in your W's shoes, right? I have been both a WS and a BS, remember.

That said, I do think you had at least some control over that letter being sent to her - especially since you KNEW it would upset her. Again, perhaps I am wrong, but I don't think so on that one. The fact that the SD suggested she send one to your wife didn't mean you couldn't have said, "No, that wouldn't be a good idea. I know her - she'll go balistic and it will undermine all that I've done so far"...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So from your response, would it be safe to say that the devil was leading me by a godly person to make matters worse? No. It was not control, and I don't by your explanation. Sorry. The opportunity was offerred to her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well... I guess I would say that not every godly person gives 100% godly advice all the time. Godly people are human, after all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While she was upstairs, I checked the garbage and found the envelope, but not its contents. Hmmm, why wasn't that thrown out? Also, this morning, when I prayed at the Tabernacle, I asked God to help approach this, her response, with love, understanding and humilty. Guess what, I did. I explained to her that it was for us to respect each other in front of the kids, etc. I didn't get angry, guilt her into it, or any other past CONTROLLING behavior and reactions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That all sounds good. I don't know what else to say about that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for SAA... I have spoken to to many people: religious and non, therapist, clergy, secular, sex addicts and non. Verdict is 50-50. I don't spend all day on thoughts of sex. I don't go into porn mag stores, sex clubs, strip joints. I don't flirt with other women. No chat rooms since the affair (over five years). I know if I don't stay with the Lord, I can fall again. I knwo I can't do it alone, I need Him. But, I do not need a group to help with that matter. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your decision. I was not offering advice so much as continuing on with the concept of you taking care of YOU.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, again, for the tone of this post. I have been let down (slapped in the face, I believe you put it) by my former SD, only two Catholics outside of my family have encouraged me to save it (even my pastors, and church leaders say "anulments are easy now days"), my reading the Bible and finding that ALL/MOST of the Christian faith re-writes it to their own taste. So I am very weary.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, no need for apologies... and I am so sorry you carry such a heavy load and are weary. I do understand that - more than you know.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to check out retore ministries, and whatever the other one that is always being suggested. So tell me, besides prayer (and I am NOT doubting the power of prayer), what else is the standing spouse suppose to do? Every actionn will be considered control. "Gene, is their money in the account to buy <this>?" I answer, "No"., then I am controlling her. So every action is control.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not every action is control. In your example, if there is no money, then there just isn't. That's just the truth.

You can use Plan A while standing for your marriage. Hopefully LoveMyEx will come by with more on standing... and restoreministries... I understand they are good.

Have you ever read the story of Gavin and Patti McCloud? He's the Love Boat captain, she's his wife. They got divorced at the end of the Love Boat run, and she prayed him home. She was a believer, he was not. Might be something to look into.

I'll back away from this thread now, TTSMM. Something about it just touched me today, which is why I responded. I don't like conflict - and I've had enough to last a lifetime lately. The last few posts I've answered have rubbed people the wrong way - and I don't like that. I like peace. You too, I bet.

God Bless you, and hopefully others with more experience will be along to guide you soon.

<small>[ March 12, 2004, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</small>

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
nb,
This is why I'm weary. Another person wants to step out of my life because I tell/express my feelings.

After posting before, my w comes down stairs and called me manipulative, etc. and that I should have told her before time about the letter. I know from experience that that would have just caused an aargument earlier. Anyway, tonight wasn't an argument, but a lot of talking on her part mostly, because when I spoke, "you always justify everything." said my w. I told I take responsibility for the A 100%, but not the state of the M by myself. Same old conversation, but with some new facts: she DID kiss her personal trainer two falls ago, and had an EA, but never PA. DO I believe her? Based on her lying for a year plus, I don't know. She justifies it saying I would have held against her in court. But again, she is allowed to justify. Later on she wanted to know why I wasn't upset when she told me, that it didn't matter to me (was she testing me?).

Back to the people leaving me when I'm honest about my feelings. Back in the beginning of my M, I told the truth and got verbally in trouble for it. Not really being a man at that time, it hurt me deeply when she disapproved. So to relieve the hurt, I started lying to her. It became ahabit and became too easy.

She again brought up about the sex addiction,and that she can't trust me any more. She thinks I'm crazy because I am not sleeping with wnyone right now. She said I should sell my wedding ring. I told I would wear this ring until I died. And that I will not remarry, unless she passes away before me. "You're an idiot."

I'm confused and hurting right now. I don't feel God anywhere in the restoration here, and I don't see her moving towards God. In fact she is moving further away.

Good night and God Bless,
ttsmm

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
Trying,

Let me give my 2 cents for what it's worth, very humbly of course. First off, I do recommend VERY highly that you order the books from Restore Ministries by Dan Thiele for men. They WILL help you a great deal. What else can you do besides pray for your spouse? All I can say to that is continue to show kindness where there is sarcasm, love where there is cruelty, and smiles where there are frowns. I know your W thinks that you're "faking" it, but so did my H before he came back and when he did come back, it took him up until last week to admit that the changes he saw in me were genuine. Sometimes he still thinks that I'm putting on an act to get him to stay and that "the ball's going to drop" sooner or later.

I understand you continually reaching out to her, trying to get her to go to these M weekends, etc. because I did the same thing w/my H. So many times I would have the Family Life ministries weekend pamphlet sitting on the table, he would glance at it and just shake his head as if telling me, She never gives up, does she? Always, time after time, he would leave & I would feel devastated that he turned it away again. Even now, I don't understand his reluctance to come on this site, or even listen to that tape (remember when I gave him that?), and he's been home for 3 weeks now.

One thing I do want to stress though, IF this D goes through, you MUST take off your wedding band. This is important. It will truly show you are releasing her to God. Yes, you are still married in God's eyes, but you holding on to that wedding ring on your finger still has you attached to her, holding on. You MUST let her go to God. I know how frustrating it is not to see changes that you've prayed for in your W, but maybe you can look at this time as God working on changing YOU right now and look how much he's done that. YOu have come so far, Trying since you first posted on this site. It is evident in the things you write and the advice you give. This is God at work here! Wonderful!

It sounds to me like you've prayed and prayed and prayed and God has changed you, is continually changing you and now you think that it's time for a change to come about in your W and your M. This is you wanting things your way. I don't want to sound harsh so please don't take this that way. Believe me, I have had my share of, Give it to me now God! I've been so obedient! It's time now for things to change! For me to see SOMEthing! I know how frustrating it can be and I feel your pain & frustration, brother.

All I can tell you at this point is continue to seek God's Word and if your church peers are telling you to get an anullment, then maybe you shouldn't be listening to them. It sounds to me like you believe your W has the ball in her court right now and you want a little bit of upper hand in all this. I wanted that too but what I realized was that that would be me trying to take control of the situation instead of letting God do the work. It is hard, it is frustrating and it takes a WHOLE lot of patience, which is something that everyone runs short of. Let me ask you, have you prayed for patience? Have you prayed for strength to get through the day? This is a step-by-step process, Trying and a very long rocky road. Let Jesus be your guide. Let him ride the bicycle up the hill. Each day is a new day & you never know what to expect from it.

As far as your W telling you to go ahead & be with someone else, well, IMVHO, she is just trying to make herself feel better. She figures if he has someone then it's okay for her to without feeling any kind of guilt. She may not show you guilt, she may not say it, but it's there, believe me.

Anyway, hope I didn't say anything to offend you or come out wrong. That was not my intention. I just wanted you to know that I read this post & I wanted to make sure I had the proper thing to say to you instead of blurting off the top of my head. I've been praying for God to give me the right words throughout this post. Hope I helped a little. We love you, Trying! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,906
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,906
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
<strong> She again brought up about the sex addiction,and that she can't trust me any more. She thinks I'm crazy because I am not sleeping with wnyone right now.
I'm confused and hurting right now. I don't feel God anywhere in the restoration here, and I don't see her moving towards God. In fact she is moving further away.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Trying,
I haven't been around for awhile, but I decided today to just post some thoughts I had about these developments and this particular post. There's so much here. I hope you can follow all of this.

First of all, I'm beginning to *wonder* about your Spiritual advisors/church, etc. I don't mean to question your Spiritual Home, but......
Well, it sounds so much like the advice the "world" is always giving us......just "move on." You don't need that.

I guess that's what keep ya coming back to us, eh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Anyways, in regards to her comments to you above, which I quoted, I think that's what struck me most......
Man, she'stelling you what the problem is!! She doesn't trust you!!!

OK, so now you're going to ask, "So how do I get her to trust me?"
Answer: TIME and PATIENCE

This is just going to take time. In the meantime, NO outbursts, NO confrontations.....be consistent, doing what you're doing IN THE LORD. Show her Christ.

I know you said "she seems to be worse....."
Joyce Meyer would say THIS IS GREAT!!! It means God IS working!!! The Holy Spirit is making her miserable so she cannot continue the way she is!!! PTL!!!

It will take time, (and maybe some more uncomfort) before she realizes that there's NO WHERE to turn to get away from the misery except the Lord, but as long as you keep the pressure on (praying), Holy Spirit will keep working!!!

Face it, Try, no matter what happens with your current M, she isn't going to "get away" from the Holy Spirit. What I mean by "no matter what happens with your current M" is this: IF (big IF) you end up getting div'd, it's only a piece of paper, and it isn't recognized as legal in heaven!!! AND, it doesn't mean God isn't still working!!!

Your W (like my H) is running head-long AWAY from us to try to make the pain go away. It doesn't work, so relax and let her try!!! YOU KNOW there is only one way to make the pain go away......and until SHE learns that, she's going to keep being miserable! My H is.
I mean, here's a man who WANTED a div. HE HAD TO start a new life (told me so), things would "be better for him" once that happened. Guess what? IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!
Every time I talk to him, he still sounds the same. STILL b*tches about how miserable his health is, his job, his finances, his life in general......I WANT to say, "So this div. REALLY worked for ya, huh?"

I don't - of course - but I want to. See, he's STILL THE SAME MISERABLE, unhappy man he was when *it was my fault* and he left!!! What does that tell me?
IT WASN'T ABOUT ME!!!! It was about HIS relationship with GOD!!! He hasn't figured that out yet. But when he's slopping with the pigs, and everything else has run out on him, HE WILL.

So will your W. Just keep on keeping on. God will give you strength enough to get through this.

God Bless you, my brother.

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
nb,
This is why I'm weary. Another person wants to step out of my life because I tell/express my feelings.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you talking about me stepping out?

TTSMY, I am "backing away" to allow room for someone else to "step in"... and there *is* a difference.

Let me explain why - and I hope this comes out right:

In my first post to you, I suggested that your wife might feel manipulated. You insisted you weren't manipulating her, and said that my suggestion hurt and angered you. I remained steadfast on my belief, but at the same time felt terrible for saying something that hurt you.

But then your last post to me said (among other things:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After posting before, my w comes down stairs and called me manipulative...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You see...

You were not ready to hear what I thought, and I have a hard time NOT saying what I think.

I prayed before I posted to you, although my faith is not at its strongest right now... but I really felt led to say what I did. I don't have an inside track, but maybe God put a bug in my ear on this one. I don't know, and don't pretend to know, all the answers.

If what I'm saying gets blurred because of your pain, and I don't want to cause further pain, then I want to stop the behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm confused and hurting right now. I don't feel God anywhere in the restoration here, and I don't see her moving towards God. In fact she is moving further away.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know, and I'm so sorry. I go back to my original suggestion on this one too...

Let go. Let her go. Let God do the work. You rest, take care of you...

I know how hard it is, I really do. But to me - you're making things worse, not better, by your behavior toward her.

I suggested above that you combine Plan A with "standing" and I will ;)stand;) by my suggestion.

And finally, there are others who understand your situation more than I do... and perhaps give better advice. I hope they come by... as I see ST did...

I hope this message did not add to your pain.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Thanks nb/st,
I am in terrible pain right now. I have cried a half-a-dozen times since last night, and I'm crying while posting this.

I feel totally lost. I am going to check out the restore ministries because I need to find someone who is in my situation (I won't repeat it, its above).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyways, in regards to her comments to you above, which I quoted, I think that's what struck me most......
Man, she'stelling you what the problem is!! She doesn't trust you!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know she doesn't trust me. I read in Harley's books though that the BS will want to check up on where the WS is. I would welcome that with open arms. How do I regain the trust?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you said "she seems to be worse....."
Joyce Meyer would say THIS IS GREAT!!! It means God IS working!!! The Holy Spirit is making her miserable so she cannot continue the way she is!!! PTL!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By not every marriage is saved, so how do I know that she is miserable because of the HS and not because she is stilled married to me? I guess I am suppose to "walk by faith". Since I am a believer, God is this marriage and therefore the HS is working. But if both of us were non-believers, the HS would not be present unless an outsider was praying for us. Does that make sense? That means without God being with at least one of us, her reactions would mean the m is over. But with God being with me, her reactions are because of her fighting the HS.
woah!!!!!!!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One thing I do want to stress though, IF this D goes through, you MUST take off your wedding band. This is important. It will truly show you are releasing her to God. Yes, you are still married in God's eyes, but you holding on to that wedding ring on your finger still has you attached to her, holding on. You MUST let her go to God. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So holding onto the ring is wrong? I thought that would be part of standing for marriage. She told me that if I keep the ring on a defintely won't be getting laid. I'm not looking to get laid I told her. I will not remarry unless she passes on before me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know how frustrating it is not to see changes that you've prayed for in your W, but maybe you can look at this time as God working on changing YOU right now and look how much he's done that. YOu have come so far, Trying since you first posted on this site. It is evident in the things you write and the advice you give. This is God at work here! Wonderful!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes I feel my words are just words that I write on here. They are not full of substance and power like many of you (standing, sg, steadfast, faithful, lupo, lmx, etc. - sorry if I missed anyone). I feel I write quick short little prayers. I know I am writing this so i will get some appreciation back. My big EN, and one of my major flaws.
When I was in acting school was the first time I had a large group of people around me with the same interest. But, the gatherings we had were very painful for me; I was never able to give any advice, having had no life experiencs to relate to. So I didn't fit in. As Marie puts in, I don't fit in now either. I'm always loooking to fit in. I'm so confused. I mean how much of her words are true?, how much is her lashing out?, how much is the devil speaking to her and me?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In my first post to you, I suggested that your wife might feel manipulated. You insisted you weren't manipulating her, and said that my suggestion hurt and angered you. I remained steadfast on my belief, but at the same time felt terrible for saying something that hurt you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Someone tell me how you show something to your S without it coming off as manipulation? From I what I have heard and seen over the last couple of years is that a woman can do things, BUT, she is not manipulating her BF or H. But if a man does it, IT IS MANIPULATION. That is downright crazy and unfair.

Why is it I can completely understand ALL the pain I caused her, but she can't understand that her actions (many LB's - mainly disapproving judgements) scarred my soul. I am was avery sensitive man - that has changed dramatically - so many things DID affect me.

Goes back to what a former MC and I discussed once; I know the world is unfair and I expeect people, especially those I love, to paly fiar with me. When my w lost her job we went to her family's gathering and she told me not to tell anyone. At the party, one of my ILs asked how things were going and I said things were OK, and he said that it must be difficult to live on one income. I was hurt that she didn't come to me first and let me know she changed her mind. During our talk (it wasn't an argument) yesterday, she couldn't understand why I would feel hurt. Through out the M, I was not allowed to have my feelings; or it must be something else, not those feelings. This isn't manipulation on her part?

I can't type anymore. I wish I could SPEAK to someone.

Going to the dedication of our new church with the kids.
God's Peace, Love, and Mercy be on us all,
Genesius

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
Trying,

I am going to e-mail you with my phone #. Would you like to talk over the phone? I feel your pain & I know you need a live voice to talk to. I want to try to help you calm your fears. Would that be alright? I know I'm not in exactly the same situation, but I don't think you're truly seeing what God is doing in your life right now. God bless you, brother.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
I just subscribed to the Charlene Cares newsletter.

I have to get ready for church. Good news, Marie agreed to me taking the kids to church on Sturday evenings, therefore EVERY WEEK.

God bless,
Genesius

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
Wonderful!!!!! PTL!!!!!!!! God is starting to soften her heart! This is wonderful! I'm so happy for you!!!!!

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
The new church is beautiful. Before coming back to Jesus, I did not like modern churches. This a modern church, but it is beautiful. Everything was originally made, nothing from a catalog. The ceremony was LOOOOOOONG - 2 hrs 45 minutes. Kids complained. Got to meet our Bishop after mass and I asked him to say a prayer my marriage. He asked if I was getting any help? I told him I was losing my faith in the church. He said I should talk with my pastor. I'll try again - BUTTTTTTT, I am going to pursue restorem and rejoice ministries online. I cried several times during the mass....I wanted Marie by my side....In His time I hope and pray.

Love in Christ,
Genesius

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,906
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,906
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
<strong> I cried several times during the mass....I wanted Marie by my side....In His time I hope and pray.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, trying, this often happens to me as well.

Just have to TRUST Him, and HIS TIMING. He knows best.

IT CAN ONLY GET BETTER.

Remember, sometimes when there is a "sickness" - God has to do surgery on the problem. Have you (or W) ever had surgery? Well, it's PAINFUL. And can take a long time of recuperation. But necessary for healing and wellness again. Your M is sick. It needs surgery, and that is a painful process.....stick with it.

GOD IS THE GREAT PHYSICIAN.

RestoreM is a wonderful resource. I get a lot of comfort from it.

RejoiceMinistries is one of my favorite web sites. I love reading their daily messages. Check in to subscribing to the men's stander's daily devotional. It's Dennis - er - somebody. I forget his last name, (Dennis Wingate? I think?) but he's associated with Rejoice Ministries, so you can probably find it on their website somewhere. I think you'll get a lot out of his daily words of encouragement, too!

God Bless,

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
Thanks lupo & standing,
I just don't understand what's going on in her mind. Tonight when she came home from work, she talks to me about wall papering the hall. Wants my opinion; likes what I had to say; goes to bed without a word (well that she does every night, the no words).
Some friends, if I should even call them that, say don't spend ANY money on the house while this is going on. But aren't I being a good husband by providing; a godly husband through those actions; giving like Christ without any immediate reward?
Doesn't matter, she'll find the money anyway; we got a HUGE return on our taxes and she has already stated we are spltting it, "You can do whatever you want with your half." Between our tax returns for the last two years and my spending money I didn't want to on lawyers for the TRO and surving while I was out of my own house; we would have reduced out debt by more than half. When we lose the house, that will be one huge doctor bill, lupo, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

God bless,
Genesius

PS nb, I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated because I want to talk to wife and still be heard as well. I took that frustration out on you. I hope you will keep me in your prayers as you are in mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,710
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Some friends, if I should even call them that, say don't spend ANY money on the house while this is going on. But aren't I being a good husband by providing; a godly husband through those actions; giving like Christ without any immediate reward?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe you are, Trying. Try to hang in there buddy. Of course, this is my VHO.

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 6,107
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by tryingTOsaveMYmarriage:
<strong> PS nb, I'm sorry, I'm just so frustrated because I want to talk to wife and still be heard as well. I took that frustration out on you. I hope you will keep me in your prayers as you are in mine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny, you're the second person to apologize to me on this site today. I must be doing something either very right, or very wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Of course I accept your apology - and of COURSE you remain in my prayers.

If you can't let of steam here, where can you? You're suppose to be safe here...

No worries, okay?

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
TTSMM,

Until now I have been silent on this thread because you sound so desperate and depressed. There's no need to add to your pain after all. So I want you to take several deep breathes, blow your nose, open your heart, and see if you are willing to hear what I have to say. I see several topics that REALLY need to be addressed:

1) God does not want divorce, and if you are hearing people encourage you to let your marriage go, you should ignore them for they are not speaking from God. HOWEVER, I will say that while I firmly believe God does not want divorce, that there are times when He allows it for the good of bringing one of His children to Him. My instance is a good example of this, I believe. My exH is a mentally ill sex addict (not exaggerating--just being very factual), and while we were together, I believe my attempts to save my marriage were prohibiting God from working in my exH's life.

2) YOU are trying to save your marriage, and YOU are standing in God's way. Give your marriage to Him and take your hands off of it. TTSMM, you keep TRYING and struggling and fighting and attempting to make God do it YOUR way, and you do not know what you're doing. Love ya, but you don't. God knows her heart...God knows the past and the future...and God knows what YOU need to become closer to Him and what she needs to become closer to Him. Please, I'm begging you, give your marriage to God and trust in Him!!!

3) I'll be a little blunt here. Sending the brochure to your W was insulting and controling in her eyes, and here's why. She has very clearly stated that she does not want to work on the marriage at this time. Now, I understand you are not happy about this AND it is not what you want at this time, but you are not respecting her boundary. She said she did not want to work on the relationship, and you keep forcing her to do it your way. If you want to get ANYWHERE with this, stop demanding YOUR way with God and your way with Marie. RESPECT HER!! Now, TTSMM, you go to her TONIGHT and apologize for not listening to her and for forcing your way on her. Here's how it should go:

"I am completely responsible for disrespecting you and not honoring your boundaries, and I am sorry that I forced my opinion on you and sent the brochure. I can see how you would feel angry and hurt and unimportant, because I do not even treat you as if you were valuable enough to have your own limits and feelings. For now, I hear you that you do not want to work on our relationship, and even though I very much want us to be reconciled, I will respect you and respect your boundaries regarding our relationship. I encourage you to do what you believe you need to do in order to feel safe. Will you please forgive me for disregarding your boundary and disrespecting you?"

4) Your Spiritual Director may not have declined to work with you because of YOU--she probably decided to stop working with you because of HER. Let me give you an example. If she had been raped--if she had a friend or relative who was a sex addict--if she had been sexually abused as a child--then SHE may not be able work with you objectively and wisely sue to her own issues. Additionally, if your Spiritual Director truly believes that you are a sex addict and need to attend SAA, then I would recommend at the very least to soften your heart and consider her words. So far, your Spiritual Director has been a very wise council for you, and I believe you trust her. There is no logical reason to believe that her wisdom is suddenly off-course.

5) Regarding sexual addiction, I have the sad distinction of having some experience. My gut feeling is that you are giving all kinds of arguments for why you are not a sex addict, but I hear very little self-examination or humility, wondering if maybe you are. The first step in ANY addiction is admitting that you have a problem--and quite frankly I do not see you behaving in a way that is even considering the possibility that you might be out of control in this area.

My brother in Christ, I am not there with you and I do not live with you day-in and day-out, so I do not know how sex may be causing harm or disrupting your life. However, there is more to sex addiction than PERVERTED sexual acting out. In other words, it's not about going to XXX porn stores, strip clubs, and hookers. It's about viewing females who are mothers, daughters, and whole human beings as primarily sexual objects. It's about seeing a college-aged girl and seeing only her big tits. It's about cybersex or emails with sexual content or always oogling or always making some lude comment or thinking of sex so often during the day that you can't concentrate or thinking about body parts a majority of the time or touching your own self so often that it's disrupting your life or ... or ....

I'm asking you nicely to be courageous and look at the man in the mirror to ask him if he has a problem with sex. It's scary to look at yourself and consider it, but my brother, ask yourself. If the answer is "yes" then go to SAA, and when you think "I don't belong here--these people are perverts and gross" YOU STAY. You soften your heart and listen to the message you need to hear, and YOU STAY. Okay???

Now, TTSMM, I want you to know that I care about you a GREAT deal. You are a precious brother in Christ and a personal friend, and I would not tell you all this without expecting to be there with you and for you to help you get through this. But as much as I care about you, I can not MAKE you give God your marriage or let God work in Marie's heart or apologize for being disrespectful or consider SAA. Only YOU can do that. But I won't give up on you, I won't walk away, and I won't stop being your friend. Just so you know, though, I also won't enable you and I also won't let you avoid facing the consequences of your choices. Okay?? Are we clear? TTSMM, please soften your heart and hear. ((((((((((TryingToSaveMyMarriage))))))))))


CJ

<small>[ March 14, 2004, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: FaithfulWife ]</small>

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
T
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 584
i was writing this while faithful was writing hers, so i haven't answered fw's comments.

ladies (i believe i only rec'd answers from women so...),
first, thankyou for your words, support and especially prayers.
second, i am not going to use uppercase as i wnat to get all thoughts out. i'm not going crazy...well not too crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

weird day. i stayed in all day, but i didn't play w/my kids even though marie was out. i just felt i needed time for myself. when she came home i still stayed home. she went up to the bedroom and i watched jimmy newtron movie with the kids. i went to the store to get milk and listened to some christian music and then saw some couples food shopping. i teared up a bit in the store, but when i got into the car, i couldn't stop crying. i asked god "why?"

when i got home and we finished the movie, the kids went to bed and marie came downstairs. she called me a lier from our talk the other night; she knows i slept with more women, how could i not have because of my illness. i don't remember what i replied, but then she told me that when i have visitation. i told her i was going to file for custody 3 days each week. she hit a button on me and then went off about how with my addiction the judge won't award me the kids like that it will be every other weekend. that it is a good thin that i not remarry because i'll just break another women's heart. she kept hiiting buttons and i couldn't take it. she did tell me that even with out being religious, she knows that marriage is suppose to be exclusive. but then she attacked again. she told me i would never be well, i never went for a lie detector test, she knows there were more women, i never continued the saa meetings. i have a paper you signed in your own hand admitting you are a sex addict. there is no way the kids will ever sleep ove r in your house. i told her i would go for a lie detector test this week if she would try in this m? no. then why do you want me to take a lie detector test? i love catching you when you lie. i told her that the vows said for better or for worse, richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, til death due you part. i told her she was breaking her vows and that she discards things when they are broken, just like a piece of furniture. i then left because i didn't want to loose it on my end.
i went to the car, and let off some steam, mostly at God (have to capitalize Him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). i aske Him why He was throwing so much at me at once. i can't handle all of this. i want to live in your will. what is your will? no answers. i then said a quick prayer to God to let me go back in and not argue.
i came back in and she was upstairs. then she came down. she immediately apologized, saying that she can't control herself sometimes. we then had a great talk. she opened up on alot of things. some of it hurt. she was telling about how men are noticing her and she likes the attention. she told me about several men, since my a, that she has befriended, and that she was looking for a man who could be somewhat of a father figure to her, while not treating her like a child. that is type of man she wants to be with.
i'm forgetting much of what she said, but i will touch on some bits. i felt i am a avery romantic man and she completely agreed. that i was supportive. she was also trying to get my take on men so she could understand us better for her future ventures. it took several silent Our Fathers to not get jealous or jump off the handle.

God gave me what i wanted tonight when i asked Him in the car to let me know His will for me.

keep praying for me to know His Will even more.
- do i check into a clinic to see if i am a sex addict? with out God, i will be continuing these horrifci sins against God and marie.
- do i volunteer for a lie detector test to prove i haven's been with any other women?

God's Love and Peace and thank You Lord for putting these good sisters (and brothers) in my life,
genesius (In my marriage, His Will Be Done).

<small>[ March 15, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: tryingTOsaveMYmarriage ]</small>

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,079 guests, and 45 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5