Men/Women having friends of the opposite sex

I want to know other married couples on this view. I have been married for 16 yrs and I have 2 boys. My question is am I overreacting because my husband has a friend that is female and they are good friends. I have raised so much discontent that he does not mention her anymore. I don't know how often he talks to her but I know she still exists. I will mention her name every once in awhile to see what type of reaction I get, and when I do I learn something new, or he feels that I want to discuss her or what they have talked about. I don't know how often she calls him, because he has her call him on his cell phone so that the number will not show up on the bill. I have gotten to the point whereas I don't ask him much about her because I know eventually he will be caught in a lie. They also work in the same area, as far as I know they could still be having lunch together but I know he will not tell me after seeing how I react to the mention of her name. The reason why I have such a problem with her is because I feel that some of the things HE did share with me I felt was inappropriate for married man to be sharing with a women. Not to mention that during their frienship she has since separated from her husband and is now divorced. I don't know if I am letting my imagination run away with me or what. But I feel that there are certain limits. Now what I did do was I did tell him once I found out how close they were, I told him that since it was good enough for you to have female friends that I would find me some male friends. I have done so and I must say that it didn't sit very well with him. He claims that it didn't bother him but I know better because he always wanted to know how often we talked and try and find questions to NOT directly ask me if I am seeing them when he is not around. So needless to say if I do ask him about her and he tells me that he hasn't heard from her I don't believe him.

I just want other couples view on this situation.

Adreal,
You have just sited a classic case. Whether your husband's friendship has turned the corner to an EA or PA isn't clear but if not it is dangerously close. Secrecy is a major factor in A's. His friendship is also hurting you which is another sign that he holds her feelings over yours. His friendship has also caused you to want something similar and so now you are looking for the same type of "friend."
It is tough enough to work on a M when one of the S is in the fog and probably impossible if both are so I'd advise you to avoid finding a similar type friend.
Try working on your relationship. Do you and he spend 15 hours a week together in activities? Try to start if not. Be fun around him (Plan A)
Read anything and everything on the MB web site. Don't just post to the message board.

Please read all you can on this site, not just the boards as the previous responder said. Dr. Harley address this exact issue and shows how it can becaome a very dangerous situation in a marriage. Don't ignore the red flags.

I would also suggest that you post this up on Emotional Needs. This board does not get many responses. I think that there are many who have been in your shoes there that can offer advice.

[ July 18, 2002, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Ladysing58 ]

sorry, double post

[ July 18, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Ladysing58 ]

I am concerned about married people having "friends" of the opposite sex... reason being they can easily turn into A's!!! My H had an A with my sister because we were having problems, and he talked to her (and her H) about them... so what started out as venting to her... became a PA!!! (she was more than willing to hurt me!) I am a BS that does NOT have male friends (other than mutual friends with my H).. I have told my H that talking to ANY woman about "us" is asking for trouble! It is my experience that there are a lot of women out there who have NO morals, and think NOTHING of getting "with" a married man... They have no concern about the pain they are a part of creating for the BS!!! (obviously it takes two...)

If your H knows that this "friendship" hurts you, then he should be willing to put YOU first, and end his "frienship" with this OW!!!If he is not willing to end his "friendship", then I would think there HAS to be more to it than he has told you! I would NEVER put my H in a position where he would have to be concerned about my friends!!! (even though I am the BS!!!) The spouse comes FIRST... END OF STORY!!!

I wish you the best of luck!!!

-mcnyh

I would say from experience that I think relationships with people of the opposite sex is a bad idea. I have had "guy friends" but when my H and I would have problems I would turn to them to talk instead of my H which was borderlilne and EA, I have since stopped talking to guys online and making guy friends, this doesnt mean I wont talk to men but I dont make friends with them, obviously my husband has guy friends and I am friends with them but I dont ever talk to them or visit them wihtout my husband being present. He doesnt have and woman friends and if he did I am sure it would bother me so I am trying to apply the same rules I want him to follow to myself

I hope that made sense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Tara

I think that the fact their friendship does not include you, is a problem. I would not have as big a problem if I knew her, she called the house, we all hung out together and I knew when they got together.

The fact that this is hurting you and doesn't seem to cause him to modify the friendship or his conduct in it, to protect your feelings, is a red flag to me.

Andreal:

From experience, my view is that having friends of the opposite sex while in a marraige is very risky expecially if there are sexual undertones. Even if there are no undertones, if one spouse doesn't like the idea of the other spouse having this kind of relationship than the friendship should end. PERIOD!

Flaca
[LIST]
Married 13 years
2 D's 10 & 9
D-Day 9/00 (actually when I woke up!!)
H had EA with co-worker
In recovery

As a BS, I am going to make it my life's pursuit to never allow my wife to have opposite sex friends again. Allowances will be made for mutual friends... but if she is good friends with the wife (and seems to spend a lot of time with that friend) I am going to cool off the relationship with the H so that if I EVER SENSE ANYTHING out of line, I can beat the **** out of him and not feel bad about violating a friend's trust... which was one of the key reasons I denied my suspicions early on in my wife's A, when had I listened to my feelings I could have intervened before any of the serious **** happened.

Is there anyway that you could begin "joining" them for lunch? Ask, suggest it, see what his reaction is. If he screams, no way, then you'd better start looking around for other red flags. If he agrees, go, get to know her, let her get to know you. If they are having an A, having you encroach on their "personal" time will probably bring it out in the open. Begin fulfilling his emotional needs. Converse with him!!! If he snubbs your hurt over this situation, then look out. He's putting him and her over you. Not a good thing. Retaliating by involving in a relationship of the same sort is not healthy. Find out what's going on and if you want to dissolve your marriage, do that first. Then look for someone else!

I know I am dredging up an old thread here, but I wanted to comment and ask a few questions. My W has always been friendly with men. I have a problem with this. I feel that guys can't be just friends with women. Men most often want to have sex with their female friends. I can think all the way back to my high school days and every female friend that I had (more than an aquaintance), I would have had sex with had the opportunity arose (no pun intended <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) Let's think about the fact that if they are a friend, then you have a lot of things in common. You obviously enjoy thier company or else they wouldn't be a friend, and if you weren't physically attracted to them at first that doesn't matter as much once you get to know them better.

It is one thing if the man is a husband or boyfriend of a female friend of hers or if the man is a friend of mine that she knows, but to have close friends of the opposite sex is dangerous. Eventually there will come a time when there are problems in the M and your S starts talking about those problems with the friend of the opposite sex. It may start out innocently enough, but I think it is too easy to start looking at this person as the understanding one you've always wanted your S to be. It is too easy to start up an EA.

My brother got divorced a few years ago because his W had many A's. He (my brother) ended up meeting one of the wives of the men who his W had been with and they started talking about their marriages. Eventually after pouring their hearts out to each other they ended up sleeping together.

Am I wrong for feeling this way? My W thinks I don't trust her and she gets upset with me. It's a lose-lose situation.

MIF?

Im dealing with this issue right now. I think it very important to make introductions to friend of the opposite sex. I Personally have a handful of male friends...I dont see face to face but I do exchange an occasional phone call or email. My friends are just that...platonic...people who I have known for 7 years to 15+ years, most of whom live across the country and out of state. He gets upset...insecure and i guess threatened over a phone call. I have nothing to hide..I've been totally honest. If anything I think he should want to know my friends...female and male.

I am glad to see this topic. This is an issue my H and I have been at odds with for many many years.

My opinion is(and this has cause major LB's in my household) that any opposite sex friendship that is conducted in secret is not appriopriate.

I have male friends, but they aren't calling me on my cell phone or text messaging me. If they were, it better be about business, and I'll be sure to mention that to my H.

When we don't know what our spouses are saying to their opposite sex friends, our imagination runs wild with what is going on.

The bottom line, secret opposite sex friendships are totally inappropriate.

ruby, Isitmeorhim, thanks for the responses. Judging from your replies I am not the only man who feels this way, since it sounds like your S do also. I guess it's just that whole men are from mars, women are from venus thing going on.

I don't claim to speak for all men, but I feel that men would hit on a married female friend of theirs, especially if they did not know the husband. I guess my thinking is if they happened to catch the woman (wife) at a "weak" time (during marital problems, possibly intoxicated) that the unthinkable could happen.

I agree totally with you Isitmeorhim, if the relatioship is conducted in secret it is definitley inapropriate. When we are left to our imaginations we think the worst.

MIF?

Isit and others - great points! I, too, agree that if there is a need for secrecy the relationship is out of line. I will go farther than that, however. As a man that understands men and our motivations, I think ANYTHING else other than strictly platonic contacts by our spouse should be open to us. I believe that goes the other way as well. It revolves around issues of accountability and trust.

Women, and many men, desperately need and seek affirmation, ESPECIALLY if they have been abandoned or rejected by the opposite sex. Their self-images are already shot and they seek every avenue of self-preservation, including employing tactics such as flirting. Some people are naturally jolly and outgoing or "touchy feely". That is fine in itself but unfortunately there are people out there who misconstrue those overtures into something it's not meant to be, and that's when the trouble starts.

We don't want to adopt an attitude of paranoia, as many people are outgoing and that should be encouraged, within acceptable boundaries. I guess common sense and sensibility should come into play, also.

Just for record, I have never had a problem with my H having an open platonic relationship with another woman. My issue has always been the relationship when it is shrouded in secrecy. This holds true in almost every aspect of our married life.

Porn magazines, porn web sites, videos,,,I don't care just DO NOT HIDE IT FROM ME.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by isitmeorhim:
 Just for record, I have never had a problem with my H having an open platonic relationship with another woman. My issue has always been the relationship when it is shrouded in secrecy. This holds true in almost every aspect of our married life.

Porn magazines, porn web sites, videos,,,I don't care just DO NOT HIDE IT FROM ME. <hr /></blockquote>The question I have is if your H decided to go to the bar after work with a few co-workers who were the opposite sex, you would be alright with that as long as he told you he was doing so?

I am talking along the lines of you can't go because you are at home with the kids, he calls and says "honey, a few of us from work are going to go have a beer, do you mind?" He then names two women he works with. He told you who he was with, where he was going and you have nothing to indicate anything other than a platonic relasionship. That wouldn't bother you? How about when a week or so later they do it again? And then the following week?

Is my thinking flawed since I find this a little bothersome? If I go out after work for a beer, it's with "the guys" too, but I'm a guy.

I feel that even if it is platonic, all it takes is that time where your marriage is in a bad spot and that platonic work friend starts to comfort your spouse and as a result deposits love units into the bank account. Before you realize that platonic relationship turns into maybe and EA or even a PA.

MIF?

You have to keep in mind this is a biased sampling given the experiences of those posting on these boards. However, I agree with the majority of those who have responded: opposite gender friends are an unnecessary risk.

Early in my marriage, my wife insisted that we be allowed to maintain opposite gender friends. A strong marriage was suppose to be based upon trust. We were in love and it sounded reasonable so I went along with it. I was in graduate school and formed a close friendship with a women in my program. She became my best friend. This relationship remained entirely platonic. My wife however became insanely jealous but didn't feel she could say anything given the stipulation above that she insisted upon. In response she formed a close male friendship at work and fell in love.

I have since decided it is not an issue of trust, but an issue of mutual respect and accountability. Never again will either of us be allowed to lunch/socialize/speak privately with members of the opposite sex. It is simply an issue of mutual respect. While it is true I won't ever trust my wife as I had previously, I truly believe she is more trustworthy now based upon her accountability.

ejs65,

That's what I have been wondering all along. Is it an issue of trust. My W thinks I don't trust her since it bothers me. I, like your W, feel that I can't say anything since it would mean I didn't trust her. Meanwhile, it eats me up inside the whoe time they are out. Now my situation is not as bad as some hypothetical examples I have listed in other posts. My W does not go out with her male friends much at all. Hardly ever actually. She was out of town this past weekend and when she left she had plans to meet her old friends (we have moved 4 hours away since this was really an issue for me 4 years ago). I told her to go and have a good time, but inside I was nervous. I feel guilty, like I should trust her more than that. She ended up calling me and telling me that all but one guy cancelled and that she decided not to go. I felt relieved to hear that, then guilty that I was happy that her plans were cancelled.

I guess I need to POJR and PORH, but I fear the fallout of speaking my true feelings. One problem I have always had and one she hates is that I don't speak my mind when something is bothering me. For instance, had I told her I didn't want her to meet those friends, she would have gotten upset and said that I didn't trust her, probably would have gone anyway and the situation would have been the same except that since I didn't say anything we avoided the argument.

My response would be this: Infidelity occurs on a gradient and the line where a friendship transitions into an inapproriate relationship is blurry at best. It is a slippery slope in that those involved don't recongnize it until it is too late. I don't trust that my wife, that I, or that anyone is reliable enough to recognize it until it is too late. I firmly believe that it is simply not worth the risk. Does anyone's spouse "need" these friendships? If the answer is yes, the marriage is at high risk of failure (in my opinion). If the answer is no, then out of mutual respect for the spouse they should be avoided.

Question:
My husband is in the Army. He is frequently sent on TDY assignments in which he is attending training school or career development anywhere from 4-6 mo. We are rarely allowed to go with him or it is impossible to withdraw kids from school and make the expenses of that move on our own. The Army puts it's officers in hotel like rooms where most of the time the room next door has a young woman in it. In addition, in an effort to foster socializing among the single soldiers, the units often require them to attend parties with open bars, and being married isn't an excuse for you not to attend. At these parties there is heavy drinking, lots of young women, and they all tend to hang out together in groups. I can ask my husband not to speak with these woman, but in general this is a stretch for maintaining the lack of socialization with other women plan that MB requires. What do you do in this situation? After months apart that adds up to a lot of temptation.

I'm so glad this thread is going. MIF, For me...I wouldnt put myself around male friends without my significant other there with me. I would want him there. If he chose not to be then I would ixnay the whole meeting of friends. I always try to put the shoe on the other foot to see how my own actions would make me feel in the opposite situation. I dont think I would be comfortable if he were to meet only female coworkers for a drink after work..if it were a mixed group and I was invited, but didnt feel up for it or couldnt make it..no biggie. Its when your partner stops inviting you to join that sends red flags. It boils down to choices. I am fully aware that I am accountable for all choices and actions. I dont want my man to feel insecure. That is why I have been totally open and honest when any male friend has ever called...I have nothing to hide. But he also has to get a check on whether his insecurities are with reason, or just part of who he is in general. Some people are just plain possessive...I havent figured if he is possessive, has fear of abandonment/trust issues, or is just basically insecure. For a man to say to me "I know men and they just want to get in your pants, waiting for a weak moment blah blah" that tells me that is what he about. I dont think all men want to get into a womans pants even as friends. Perhaps Im just naive..or just blessed to have cultivated some pretty awesome male friendships over many years.
ping,
ruby

M4Ever

If H called me to tell me he was going to a bar after work, and named several women that I knew he worked with, my response would be...have fun. If he went without telling me, then I would be pissed. Its the same ole same ole with me....tell me and be open and honest, and I won't have a problem. Sneak behind my back and I tend to get ugly. Now if I couldn't go because I had to watch the kids, thats ok, I'll just go out another night with my friends. I'm not gonna get myself upset over stuff that doesn't matter to me.
I think the trick is to balance your life individually and as a couple in order to acheive true happiness.

I truly believe that sometimes in marriage, a couple loses their individuality. I think this makes the marriage suffer. How many times have you had someone introduce you to their wife...only to say..This is my wife. Hello...does the wife have a name? Well then lets use it. And guess what? I'm isitmeorhim first(a woman)wife 2nd, and mom 3rd. Is it selfish? Maybe, but its more selfish of my family to not see me as myself first.

Now part of going out with the guys for a drink after work, and doing things with friends, I think helps to keep the individuality going.

JMHO

[ March 31, 2004, 08:41 AM: Message edited by: isitmeorhim ]

ruby, I'm not sureif you are siding with me or attacking me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ruby:
 I'm so glad this thread is going. MIF, For me...I wouldnt put myself around male friends without my significant other there with me. I would want him there. If he chose not to be then I would ixnay the whole meeting of friends. I always try to put the shoe on the other foot to see how my own actions would make me feel in the opposite situation. I dont think I would be comfortable if he were to meet only female coworkers for a drink after work..if it were a mixed group and I was invited, but didnt feel up for it or couldnt make it..no biggie.<hr /></blockquote>

I agree with the above 100%

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Its when your partner stops inviting you to join that sends red flags. It boils down to choices. I am fully aware that I am accountable for all choices and actions. I dont want my man to feel insecure. That is why I have been totally open and honest when any male friend has ever called...I have nothing to hide. But he also has to get a check on whether his insecurities are with reason, or just part of who he is in general. Some people are just plain possessive...I havent figured if he is possessive, has fear of abandonment/trust issues, or is just basically insecure. For a man to say to me "I know men and they just want to get in your pants, waiting for a weak moment blah blah" that tells me that is what he about.<hr /></blockquote>

So, now I know how you feel about me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> All I was saying above was that my female friends from the past (I don't really have any now, there are a few woman I work with but I consider them more of work aquaintences, not friends) I always wondered "what if..." I mean I never acted upon those thoughts/feelings and never will, but the thoughts were there. I feel I have strong moral convictions that would prevent me from ever cheating. I believe, contrary to my username, that marriage IS forever and would never do anything to jeopardize that.

This conversation has come up with my male friends and the conclusion is that guys can not be friends with woman and not want to sleep with them. This does not mean they will act on those feelings, only that they are there somewhere floating around in that brain of theirs.

Now, I can't vouch for guys I don't know. So if my W goes out with "the guys" after work I wonder about them. I don't know if they have the moral values to respect marriage or commitment and just be friends or if they are thinking, "MIF's W is a great person, she's attractive, fun to be with etc. etc. etc, I wouldn't mind getting with her".

armywife, I feel for you. I know that must be difficult for you to go through. (I'm sure my postings don't help either).

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ejs65:
My response would be this: Infidelity occurs on a gradient and the line where a friendship transitions into an inapproriate relationship is blurry at best. It is a slippery slope in that those involved don't recongnize it until it is too late. I don't trust that my wife, that I, or that anyone is reliable enough to recognize it until it is too late. I firmly believe that it is simply not worth the risk. Does anyone's spouse "need" these friendships? If the answer is yes, the marriage is at high risk of failure (in my opinion). If the answer is no, then out of mutual respect for the spouse they should be avoided. <hr /></blockquote>

I think that is what I have been trying to say all along. Spouses may go out with friends of the opposite sex and at first things are totally innocent. As they continue this behavior, and things are not going as good at home as they could, the spouse at home is withdrawling love units while the friend is depositing love units. The spouse slowly starts to look at this "friend" in a different light. Meanwhile, the "friend" starts to do the same. The male half, IMO, has had thoughts of *** cross his mind and now that their relationship is getting closer to that blurry line of infidelity. Both parties may have meant nothing more than hanging out with friends at the start of this thing, but over time that has changed.

MIF?

Ive always held the belief that once you get married, or even before hand that friends of the opposite sex were unecessary. now after one EA and a PA that my wife had with friends of the opposite sex am i proven right? Ive read alot of posts here and does anyone who's Spouse feels anxious , nervous ,jealous about their friend ships with memebers of the opposite sex, care about their spouses feelings? doesnt the one you pledged your life too feelings count for something?
sadly my wife has another guy friend at work and despite my feelings on the matter she continues to talk to him(this just after she confessed to an physical affair with a male coworker 2 years ago) says if she ever feels like that again she would tell me. thats funny, since she would be "in love" with him why would my feelings suddenly at that point become important over hers being in love with him???

I just hope the spouses who have close friends who are the memeber of the opposite sex dont say the same "Ill never have an affair", dont find that "WOW I cant believe I had an AFFAIR".

EVERY RELATIONSHIP OUTSIDE YOUR MARRIAGE TAKES AWAY FROM THE PERSONAL TIME YOU SPEND TALKING/BEING WITH YOUR SPOUSE, THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH TIME AND ENERGY ABOVE AND BEYOND WHAT IT TAKES BETWEEN DAILY TASKS TO SUSTAIN YOUR MARRIAGE , as I found to my lifetime regret and my wifes.

Heres to making better choices in the future
all the best to you all
cliff

P.S. oh and her friend was a married male so she felt it was a safe friend ship.

[ April 04, 2004, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: cliff ]

MIF, no indeed I wasnt making a dig fella. Not at all. Just putting my thoughts of what is going on in my life on the screen. I agree with what cliff is saying as well...however, when does the insecurity become a problem? My friends are people that I dont see..maybe once a year or a phone call a coupel times a year. I dont want to lose contact with those people...regardless of the frequecy I see them. We've been in touch because the friendship is valued period. but all in all it is about choices and making your partner warm and fuzzy. But to what point...I've seen people in my life with incredibly jealous spouses...lash out, when no inappropriate behaviour was exuded...which to me stems from an individual deep rooted insecurities.
r

Very true, I understand your point on that Ruby, but... if your spouse is insecure what did the other spouse do to make them so? just a thought....

I think that some people are more insecure than others in relationships. perhaps that stems from one's past. Unfaithful partners stepping out on them or whatever the situation may be. For me, I have exhibited no inappropriate behaviors, so when my SO becomes threatend by a friend who is a quadroplegic in a wheelchair....thats his problem not mine. On a good note, he did apologize for his being rather jealous. He was actually embarrassed. I also have a very outgoing personality, he knew before our getting totally serious that it takes a very secure man to be with me. Not for any other reason than I meet no strangers and can talk with anyone and the fact that I have some really good friends from high school/college that I occasionally here from.
r

so when my SO becomes threatend by a friend who is a quadroplegic in a wheelchair....thats his problem not mine.
Uh, no that is both of your problems as it WILL affect your relationship. And if you have no concern for your SO's feelings, then why are you in a relationship?

What does being in a wheel chair have to do with anything?

he knew before our getting totally serious that it takes a very secure man to be with me.
So you don't really care what his feelings are on anything?
You will do whatever you want, whether he agrees or not?

[ April 05, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

Ruby, its in your actions that you continue his insecurity.... first make him FEEL secure..... before personal friendships.

[ April 05, 2004, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: cliff ]

Chris, I dont think you actually read all my post. Perhaps you should go back and reread this thread.

Cliff...I place tremendous value on my relationship. I put my partner first on all accounts as does he for me. We do agree that we place different values on friendships. I have a handful, he has those that are only work acquaintences. Our personalities are quite the opposite. He keeps me grounded and I pull him out of his shell. ITs a good balance.

Hey i can understand that, im very outgoing and can fit in with any crowd, talk with anybody. while my wife is uncomfortable with people she doesnt know and doesnt talk much if at a party of people shes not familiar with.

But just a point on what you posted, you said youve done nothing to make him feel insecure, in the same breath saying he feels insecure about you having male friends...... seems like your making him feel insecure by your action with your friends, wether in other sates or in wheelchairs. distance is nothing, my wife had an EA with a guy in N. carolina while she is in lousiana. she all was packed and ready to go till he got cold feet.

now hey i understand about old friends from school days, I have mine as well but just dont talk to them much at all, maybe just a call about christmas that kind of thing. after i got married time got away from me, had all my energy into my marriage (too bad she didnt) and i felt comfortable in just kinda slipping away from old friends.... wether they were female or male.

now ill be honest and say that i do not contact any old female friends cause my wife had a problem with me doing so, so i stopped talking with them....... whatever works for you RUBY, not dumping on you or anything just expressing opinion...
cliff

* May you never feel the fire of the ultimate betrayal, or the numb feeling of where your heart used to be*

Perhaps a thread on the topic of insecurity would be in order <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Cliff, I dont have the power to make someone feel insecure. OUr actions can affect someones level of security for sure. But would you agree that there are people who no matter what you do, just have low self esteem, fear of abandonment, deep rooted insecurities..whatever the case may be? Im not speaking of my relationship..Im just merely attempting a discussion on insecurities in general. Lets go into perception for a moment, our perception is our reality. Could some people have a distorted perception? I think so. Look at people who have distorted body images...those who suffer from eating disorders and the like. What about abusive relationships...a controlling m/f who wont let the other out of his/her sight, due to his perception of the other straying, when the other person's action hasnt warranted any such behavior. Control issues? Would you agree that there are people who have a suspecious and a non trusting nature in general? JUst some thoughts in general.

Being married for the second time I would truly advise you to talk to your husband. If this woman is only a friend then you should be able to meet her and know her as well. You usually can tell from body language between the both of them if this would be an uncomfortable situation with you there. I've told my husband that any Male friends I have I am willing to introduce him to and I have. I know that I love my husband and any male friends that call me or I meet for lunch or dinner is strictly a friend. My husband is always welcome to come...Just like if my male friends have girlfriends..I will ask my friend to bring his girl. I feel that this makes all parties comfortable and also a little less stressed about the situation. Hope everything works out for you. Q

Hi all,

It has been really interesting to read these viewpoints. My wife approx. 2 yrs ago met a man after taking sailing lessons, and started spending every weekend with him out at the lake --- not necessarily overnight, but most of the day. I was initially resentful mainly because we have 2 small kids and I didn't like her default behavior to be absent on weekends. Later I stumbled upon an email from him where he was very flirty with her. She bought a sailboat soon after and has been sailing with him for the last 1.5 yrs. I love sailing, but she never invites me out with her (or them). She also told me not to call her while she's out there so it wouldn't feel like I was 'checking up on her'. I have basically never met this man or the others she hangs out with out there, as I am not welcome to participate in any races or attend any club events or parties. She says she needs time to herself, although I can't help noticing that she is never actually by herself. She's traveled with him on a number of sailing trips and races, including a chartered cruise around a bay in FL last year. I've made my feelings plain, but she refuses to stop seeing him, and I'm not really sure what to do. I told her that I really need a separation now, as I'm really turning into an angry person. That is not who I used to be. Anyway, thanks in advance for your thoughts and time.

I'm totally opposed to men and women friends dining or playing together. I think you are playing with fire, it is very easy to become emotionally involved with a friend and that can easily lead to more. Furthermore, I think that type of relationship takes away from a marriage. My husband is my best friend and it is he that I want to wine and dine and share my feelings and emotions with. I have no need to share those things with another man. Besides I would not like it if my husband shared his thoughts and interest with other ladies as well. I guess you can say, I'm speaking from experience just how easy this situation can catch you off guard and before you know it, your sunk in quicksand.

RUBY, I guess all i need to make my point is point too LASER's post up above mine a couple, what are the chances that his wife isnt in an affair with this guy? Id say slim to none, It probably didnt start out that way but in the process of learning a new past time Laser's wife grew atracted too another man and now his marriage is in serious trouble, all because of a male friend ......... always nice when someone brings up something to help me to prove a point....

LASER I really dont know what too say my friend, im sure everyone feels for your situation..... How did you let her go on cruises with this guy?
you shouldve stopped it right there, and this "dont call" cause ill think your checking up on me???? makes you wonder why youd NEED to check up on her.....

[ April 11, 2004, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: cliff ]

My husband of 7 yrs has had a 21 y.o coworker text messaging him over the past 3 months over 2000 times- he say they are just friends- this is my second marriage- my ex cheated on me with my friend-my husband insists that nothing is going on- yet he is very distant and quiet- the more I press about this relationship- the more insistant that he is that they are friends- I know I am pushing the envelope about it- but when I met him I was up front and honest about everything-he told me that he knew I would automatically think there was something going on- no matter what he said-he has said to me that he has the problem- not me- that he is unsure of where he needs to be in his life- married or not, he is unhappy with himself and has even told me he is unsure if he is in love with me never mind the fact that he hates himself for feeling this way- I feel like the rug has been pulled out from under me- he only askes me to just let it go-what can I do? I mean he knows all my male friends, but coworkers, even men don't text message me at all hours of the day and night-Am I stupid? Should I just back off- I love this man-

Ruby - I strongly encourage you to heed the advice of these well-meaning people. I particularly agree with Truly Blessed. She offers wise counsel from a woman's perspective. It is NOT "insecurity" to have clear boundaries as to how one would limit contact with the opposite sex. It is NOT "controlling" for a spouse to express their disagreement with their loved one's contact with a member of the opposite sex. Ruby, most of this revolves around plain old common sense and respect for your spouse.

Hey, I agree with not putting yourself in situations that just set the stage for infidelity. Cliff, I didnt respond to one of your post about old friends. I think that there is a "natural selection" as far as friends when we go from being single to being involved. For me there is... Like you, I dont have any desire to go out with my girfriends to a bar. I'll go have dinner...but if my chicky friends are living a single lifestyle, i would rather not put myself in that setting in general. I prefer to meet new couples who share same interest. Bonus if half of the couple has been a long time friend...whether male or female. Hurting Promise Keeper...I realize that sometimes its hard to hear what a poster is attempting to write...you seemingly have interpreted my post in a way that wasnt intended sir. I "get it" as far was what it means to be in a committed relationship, I get what it means to place your partners need first. I "get" what is appropriate and what is not. Believe me, My first and only marriage of 6 years ended due to ExH's infidelity and living a double lifestyle. He made stupid choices and disrespected me in everyway imaginable. I've been on that lonely highway...a road that I would never subject my partner to.
kind regards to all,
r

It is great to hear other married couples on this view. I am dealing with a same problem…is that normal to have friends opposite sex? Is that affair or really friendship? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I’ve already published my story on the General Questions board last month. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> If you would like to know the complete story here is my tread http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=027504

To make it short, if you didn’t read my story…the whole situation in my marriage started because of the friendship with opposite sex. My husband was on vacation with kids (and without me) and made a “very good friend” with 2 ladies, one is our hometown neighbour and other is cousin’s wife. As it usually starts, they discussed about marriages in general at first. It turned to be “personal story”…They started to talk about their marriages and in my opinion it went to far. I mean, I am only guessing… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

When he returned from vacation he became totally different person. I realized that something really bad happen to us. Bottom line, I found out that he was in contact with 2 ladies sometimes on a daily basis. I broke into his hotmail account. I kept monitoring some conversations and at one point I told him that I know about his e-mails. He got so mad for me being so “rude” and disrespectful. My major concern was that he tried to keep that as secret. He explained that I was so jealous and that is why he kept that as a secret. Sometimes they went on chat…however, he never admitted that it was affair (even today). Our relationship is drastically changed in the terms of the trust, intimacy and love. He blamed me for what happen to our marriage and us. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I was very stressed and disappointed with the whole situation. I lived through the hell last 2 years. I asked my mother for support and advice but got rejected! She said she would never support my divorce or separation no matter what! I was so alone in the whole thing…
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Finally, after lots of discussions, ups and downs, we came at the point where we had to decide if we are going to stay together or not. We are still kind of working on it and it is getting better believed or not! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think that in spite of everything e-mail still keeps going on. I don’t care about e-mails anymore at this point. It is behind…but it hearts to see that he still acts very protective about that. He said that it was his fault that our cousin’s wife became involved and “informed” about our “marriage problems”. He didn’t want to do any harm to her or cause any problems in her marriage because of us and me eventually raising any issue about their “friendship”. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I would like to hear your opinion. Do you think that I am overreacting with the whole situation regarding female friends?

betrayed - I don't think you are overreacting at all. Your story serves to confirm the pitfall of "harmless opposite sex relationships" that a married person can so easily fall prey to. It doesn't take much, especially with today's relaxed standards and lack of morals, to fall into a trap. One person may be totally innocent yet be taken in by a wolf (or wolfette).

MylegsRmine: I think you are close if not right on target. From the books I have read by Dr. Harley, this is dangerously close to EA if not crossed the line already. The fact that this OW is now divorced. I think your husband should not eat lunch or any other meal with this OW UNLESS you are there. He needs to stop calling her on his cell phone if he is going to sneak around to talk with her. He is not taking your feelings into account that this is hurtful to you. Who cares how long she has been his friend???You are his wife. He should be thinking of your needs first over his or this OW. He should have this friendship with you in the presence of this OW. I hate to keep referring to her as the OW but she is fitting the bill. Talk with your husband and tell him why this has to stop....Peace