I want to know other married couples on this view. I have been married for 16 yrs and I have 2 boys. My question is am I overreacting because my husband has a friend that is female and they are good friends. I have raised so much discontent that he does not mention her anymore. I don't know how often he talks to her but I know she still exists. I will mention her name every once in awhile to see what type of reaction I get, and when I do I learn something new, or he feels that I want to discuss her or what they have talked about. I don't know how often she calls him, because he has her call him on his cell phone so that the number will not show up on the bill. I have gotten to the point whereas I don't ask him much about her because I know eventually he will be caught in a lie. They also work in the same area, as far as I know they could still be having lunch together but I know he will not tell me after seeing how I react to the mention of her name. The reason why I have such a problem with her is because I feel that some of the things HE did share with me I felt was inappropriate for married man to be sharing with a women. Not to mention that during their frienship she has since separated from her husband and is now divorced. I don't know if I am letting my imagination run away with me or what. But I feel that there are certain limits. Now what I did do was I did tell him once I found out how close they were, I told him that since it was good enough for you to have female friends that I would find me some male friends. I have done so and I must say that it didn't sit very well with him. He claims that it didn't bother him but I know better because he always wanted to know how often we talked and try and find questions to NOT directly ask me if I am seeing them when he is not around. So needless to say if I do ask him about her and he tells me that he hasn't heard from her I don't believe him.

I just want other couples view on this situation.

Adreal,
You have just sited a classic case. Whether your husband's friendship has turned the corner to an EA or PA isn't clear but if not it is dangerously close. Secrecy is a major factor in A's. His friendship is also hurting you which is another sign that he holds her feelings over yours. His friendship has also caused you to want something similar and so now you are looking for the same type of "friend."
It is tough enough to work on a M when one of the S is in the fog and probably impossible if both are so I'd advise you to avoid finding a similar type friend.
Try working on your relationship. Do you and he spend 15 hours a week together in activities? Try to start if not. Be fun around him (Plan A)
Read anything and everything on the MB web site. Don't just post to the message board.

Please read all you can on this site, not just the boards as the previous responder said. Dr. Harley address this exact issue and shows how it can becaome a very dangerous situation in a marriage. Don't ignore the red flags.

I would also suggest that you post this up on Emotional Needs. This board does not get many responses. I think that there are many who have been in your shoes there that can offer advice.

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Ladysing58 ]</small>

sorry, double post

<small>[ July 18, 2002, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Ladysing58 ]</small>

I am concerned about married people having "friends" of the opposite sex... reason being they can easily turn into A's!!! My H had an A with my sister because we were having problems, and he talked to her (and her H) about them... so what started out as venting to her... became a PA!!! (she was more than willing to hurt me!) I am a BS that does NOT have male friends (other than mutual friends with my H).. I have told my H that talking to ANY woman about "us" is asking for trouble! It is my experience that there are a lot of women out there who have NO morals, and think NOTHING of getting "with" a married man... They have no concern about the pain they are a part of creating for the BS!!! (obviously it takes two...)

If your H knows that this "friendship" hurts you, then he should be willing to put YOU first, and end his "frienship" with this OW!!!If he is not willing to end his "friendship", then I would think there HAS to be more to it than he has told you! I would NEVER put my H in a position where he would have to be concerned about my friends!!! (even though I am the BS!!!) The spouse comes FIRST... END OF STORY!!!

I wish you the best of luck!!!

-mcnyh

I would say from experience that I think relationships with people of the opposite sex is a bad idea. I have had "guy friends" but when my H and I would have problems I would turn to them to talk instead of my H which was borderlilne and EA, I have since stopped talking to guys online and making guy friends, this doesnt mean I wont talk to men but I dont make friends with them, obviously my husband has guy friends and I am friends with them but I dont ever talk to them or visit them wihtout my husband being present. He doesnt have and woman friends and if he did I am sure it would bother me so I am trying to apply the same rules I want him to follow to myself

I hope that made sense <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Tara

I think that the fact their friendship does not include you, is a problem. I would not have as big a problem if I knew her, she called the house, we all hung out together and I knew when they got together.

The fact that this is hurting you and doesn't seem to cause him to modify the friendship or his conduct in it, to protect your feelings, is a red flag to me.

Andreal:

From experience, my view is that having friends of the opposite sex while in a marraige is very risky expecially if there are sexual undertones. Even if there are no undertones, if one spouse doesn't like the idea of the other spouse having this kind of relationship than the friendship should end. PERIOD!

Flaca
[LIST]
Married 13 years
2 D's 10 & 9
D-Day 9/00 (actually when I woke up!!)
H had EA with co-worker
In recovery

As a BS, I am going to make it my life's pursuit to never allow my wife to have opposite sex friends again. Allowances will be made for mutual friends... but if she is good friends with the wife (and seems to spend a lot of time with that friend) I am going to cool off the relationship with the H so that if I EVER SENSE ANYTHING out of line, I can beat the **** out of him and not feel bad about violating a friend's trust... which was one of the key reasons I denied my suspicions early on in my wife's A, when had I listened to my feelings I could have intervened before any of the serious **** happened.

Is there anyway that you could begin "joining" them for lunch? Ask, suggest it, see what his reaction is. If he screams, no way, then you'd better start looking around for other red flags. If he agrees, go, get to know her, let her get to know you. If they are having an A, having you encroach on their "personal" time will probably bring it out in the open. Begin fulfilling his emotional needs. Converse with him!!! If he snubbs your hurt over this situation, then look out. He's putting him and her over you. Not a good thing. Retaliating by involving in a relationship of the same sort is not healthy. Find out what's going on and if you want to dissolve your marriage, do that first. Then look for someone else!

I know I am dredging up an old thread here, but I wanted to comment and ask a few questions. My W has always been friendly with men. I have a problem with this. I feel that guys can't be just friends with women. Men most often want to have sex with their female friends. I can think all the way back to my high school days and every female friend that I had (more than an aquaintance), I would have had sex with had the opportunity arose (no pun intended <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) Let's think about the fact that if they are a friend, then you have a lot of things in common. You obviously enjoy thier company or else they wouldn't be a friend, and if you weren't physically attracted to them at first that doesn't matter as much once you get to know them better.

It is one thing if the man is a husband or boyfriend of a female friend of hers or if the man is a friend of mine that she knows, but to have close friends of the opposite sex is dangerous. Eventually there will come a time when there are problems in the M and your S starts talking about those problems with the friend of the opposite sex. It may start out innocently enough, but I think it is too easy to start looking at this person as the understanding one you've always wanted your S to be. It is too easy to start up an EA.

My brother got divorced a few years ago because his W had many A's. He (my brother) ended up meeting one of the wives of the men who his W had been with and they started talking about their marriages. Eventually after pouring their hearts out to each other they ended up sleeping together.

Am I wrong for feeling this way? My W thinks I don't trust her and she gets upset with me. It's a lose-lose situation.

MIF?

Im dealing with this issue right now. I think it very important to make introductions to friend of the opposite sex. I Personally have a handful of male friends...I dont see face to face but I do exchange an occasional phone call or email. My friends are just that...platonic...people who I have known for 7 years to 15+ years, most of whom live across the country and out of state. He gets upset...insecure and i guess threatened over a phone call. I have nothing to hide..I've been totally honest. If anything I think he should want to know my friends...female and male.

I am glad to see this topic. This is an issue my H and I have been at odds with for many many years.

My opinion is(and this has cause major LB's in my household) that any opposite sex friendship that is conducted in secret is not appriopriate.

I have male friends, but they aren't calling me on my cell phone or text messaging me. If they were, it better be about business, and I'll be sure to mention that to my H.

When we don't know what our spouses are saying to their opposite sex friends, our imagination runs wild with what is going on.

The bottom line, secret opposite sex friendships are totally inappropriate.

ruby, Isitmeorhim, thanks for the responses. Judging from your replies I am not the only man who feels this way, since it sounds like your S do also. I guess it's just that whole men are from mars, women are from venus thing going on.

I don't claim to speak for all men, but I feel that men would hit on a married female friend of theirs, especially if they did not know the husband. I guess my thinking is if they happened to catch the woman (wife) at a "weak" time (during marital problems, possibly intoxicated) that the unthinkable could happen.

I agree totally with you Isitmeorhim, if the relatioship is conducted in secret it is definitley inapropriate. When we are left to our imaginations we think the worst.

MIF?

Isit and others - great points! I, too, agree that if there is a need for secrecy the relationship is out of line. I will go farther than that, however. As a man that understands men and our motivations, I think ANYTHING else other than strictly platonic contacts by our spouse should be open to us. I believe that goes the other way as well. It revolves around issues of accountability and trust.

Women, and many men, desperately need and seek affirmation, ESPECIALLY if they have been abandoned or rejected by the opposite sex. Their self-images are already shot and they seek every avenue of self-preservation, including employing tactics such as flirting. Some people are naturally jolly and outgoing or "touchy feely". That is fine in itself but unfortunately there are people out there who misconstrue those overtures into something it's not meant to be, and that's when the trouble starts.

We don't want to adopt an attitude of paranoia, as many people are outgoing and that should be encouraged, within acceptable boundaries. I guess common sense and sensibility should come into play, also.

Just for record, I have never had a problem with my H having an open platonic relationship with another woman. My issue has always been the relationship when it is shrouded in secrecy. This holds true in almost every aspect of our married life.

Porn magazines, porn web sites, videos,,,I don't care just DO NOT HIDE IT FROM ME.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by isitmeorhim:
<strong> Just for record, I have never had a problem with my H having an open platonic relationship with another woman. My issue has always been the relationship when it is shrouded in secrecy. This holds true in almost every aspect of our married life.

Porn magazines, porn web sites, videos,,,I don't care just DO NOT HIDE IT FROM ME. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The question I have is if your H decided to go to the bar after work with a few co-workers who were the opposite sex, you would be alright with that as long as he told you he was doing so?

I am talking along the lines of you can't go because you are at home with the kids, he calls and says "honey, a few of us from work are going to go have a beer, do you mind?" He then names two women he works with. He told you who he was with, where he was going and you have nothing to indicate anything other than a platonic relasionship. That wouldn't bother you? How about when a week or so later they do it again? And then the following week?

Is my thinking flawed since I find this a little bothersome? If I go out after work for a beer, it's with "the guys" too, but I'm a guy.

I feel that even if it is platonic, all it takes is that time where your marriage is in a bad spot and that platonic work friend starts to comfort your spouse and as a result deposits love units into the bank account. Before you realize that platonic relationship turns into maybe and EA or even a PA.

MIF?

You have to keep in mind this is a biased sampling given the experiences of those posting on these boards. However, I agree with the majority of those who have responded: opposite gender friends are an unnecessary risk.

Early in my marriage, my wife insisted that we be allowed to maintain opposite gender friends. A strong marriage was suppose to be based upon trust. We were in love and it sounded reasonable so I went along with it. I was in graduate school and formed a close friendship with a women in my program. She became my best friend. This relationship remained entirely platonic. My wife however became insanely jealous but didn't feel she could say anything given the stipulation above that she insisted upon. In response she formed a close male friendship at work and fell in love.

I have since decided it is not an issue of trust, but an issue of mutual respect and accountability. Never again will either of us be allowed to lunch/socialize/speak privately with members of the opposite sex. It is simply an issue of mutual respect. While it is true I won't ever trust my wife as I had previously, I truly believe she is more trustworthy now based upon her accountability.

ejs65,

That's what I have been wondering all along. Is it an issue of trust. My W thinks I don't trust her since it bothers me. I, like your W, feel that I can't say anything since it would mean I didn't trust her. Meanwhile, it eats me up inside the whoe time they are out. Now my situation is not as bad as some hypothetical examples I have listed in other posts. My W does not go out with her male friends much at all. Hardly ever actually. She was out of town this past weekend and when she left she had plans to meet her old friends (we have moved 4 hours away since this was really an issue for me 4 years ago). I told her to go and have a good time, but inside I was nervous. I feel guilty, like I should trust her more than that. She ended up calling me and telling me that all but one guy cancelled and that she decided not to go. I felt relieved to hear that, then guilty that I was happy that her plans were cancelled.

I guess I need to POJR and PORH, but I fear the fallout of speaking my true feelings. One problem I have always had and one she hates is that I don't speak my mind when something is bothering me. For instance, had I told her I didn't want her to meet those friends, she would have gotten upset and said that I didn't trust her, probably would have gone anyway and the situation would have been the same except that since I didn't say anything we avoided the argument.

My response would be this: Infidelity occurs on a gradient and the line where a friendship transitions into an inapproriate relationship is blurry at best. It is a slippery slope in that those involved don't recongnize it until it is too late. I don't trust that my wife, that I, or that anyone is reliable enough to recognize it until it is too late. I firmly believe that it is simply not worth the risk. Does anyone's spouse "need" these friendships? If the answer is yes, the marriage is at high risk of failure (in my opinion). If the answer is no, then out of mutual respect for the spouse they should be avoided.