Power of a Praying Wife-Chapter one - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Well, we have gone through this book a number of times and I guess I am wondering since Chapter One is entitled His Wife- what changes have you made, what has impacted you the most, what growth you have seen and what are your goals for 2001? And I guess I was wondering if it was time to go through the book again, from scratch rather than bringing up old threads, though they are valuable for me to where how far I have or have not come...What do you think?

Sue, I think you are so right, we do! I have been avoiding praying and reading and finally got busy tonight. I have been going through an amazing book, which I have read pieces of before. It is called "Listening Prayer" by Leanne Payne. I say this to get to the point that I realized after we talked earlier that I haven't heard anything really new by way of commands in a while, I finally realized that perhaps that is because I really haven't done what he has already given me to do. So instead of telling God what I want or praying according to what I think He wants me to pray, I think it is about time that I confess to Him and start asking what it is He wants me to pray for?My greatest need is "my conversion from an obsession with my needs to obedience-centered Christianity. So my question is to ask God "How would you have me pray for my life's purpose, my h, my situation, my marriage? And then to be patient until I hear the answer.As in Exodus 14:15- God says: Then the Lord said to Moses, "Why are you crying out to me? Tell the Israelites to move on. Raise your staff and stretch out your hand over the sea...." (Exodus 14:15-16). God tells Moses to rise and obey. The Lord said to put Him in the middle of my marriage. How do I do this? I thought I knew and have tried to do this. Notice "I thought I knew and I tried." Hum? So Lord, How do I Put You in the middle of my marriage?Our focus should be on God rather than on people's needs including my own. Trust in God for a future only He can see, that should be the underlying principle of gaining God's direction.So this means working on me, by asking God what are His desires for me, for my h and for our marriage? What are His desires for my life's direction? I know He will meet me where I am now! He will meet me exactly where I need to be met!Lord, change me, give me an undivided heart, rid me of any unbelief, teach me to wait and to listen for You and to hear Your voice. Cause me to seek You with all my heart through reading Your word. Lord I know You are with me always whether I feel you or not. Lord let me come to You first and ask for Your will and then wait until I really hear your voice. Lord let me raise my arm up to You and wait to see what You will do.Lord I pray that the demonic power within my h and the ow will manifest itself so that it will be clearly discerned by all who surround my h and the ow, and that their eyes will be opened to see the situation as it really is. I pray that their associates will be given ways to speak truth and light into the situation. I pray for Godly wisdom and illumination for those who can minister truth and peace to them. Father I pray that You will give illumination and wisdom to this praying wife. Change me and give my h a knew wife but let that wife be me. I praise You, Lord for the answer of this prayer. In Jesus name, Amen.[This message has been edited by hw (edited December 30, 2000).]

So we go back and reiterate Stormi's preface that POPW is the "laying down all claim to power in and of yourself, and relying n God's power to transform you, your husband, your circumstances, and your marriage". "A gentle tool of restoration appropriated through the prayers of a wife who longs to do right more than be right, and to give life more than get even."That we have been given the "authority of all the power of the enemy" and that "we can take a stand against any negative influences in our marriage relationship and know that God hs given us authority in His name to back it up."Hmmm...changes in me over the past year...not good ones I must admit. I used to pray for this man as I ironed his clothes, as I made his lunch, and on and on...the conflict here has become such that just as Stormi described the hurt has become like sliver in the heart and the praying for him does seem to fester that sliver... the need for some healthy space has taken preference over praying for him I think. Have the demands and veraba abuse increased because I quit praying for him other than saying "smack him Lord!"Oh my, such revelation. Trying to incorporate healthy boundaries that display respect for both parties, that focus on God in the middle as you say HW, the focus that I work on the splinter in my own eye in regards to tone of voice and a gutter mouth in response to the hatefulness that comes out of his, gosh I think I am way far behind in some ways from last year...or maybe I am just more honest than I was last year...ponder, ponder....I reread her struggle when she was comtemplating leaving her husband and the Lord allowing her to envision what life would be like without him...that is a hard one for me because my life would not be more difficult. I have simple needs, I am cautious with money for the most part. I have 25 acres of land in another state with a well on it completely paid for and 15K in the bank from a sale of part of the property... I have a job that travels with me whereever I go. I wouldn't have to look at the sniveling whiny face or the listen to the silent treatment that speaks loudly of condemnation. I would miss the friends I have made here but at the same time, they have email and just as I have deepened friendships within this forum, I could maintain those. My life example in regards to heritage for my children extends beyond their growing up years. My children have watched me make errors and watched me be steadfast in my desire to do the Lord's will and they have watched my hurt, etc. They know my naivete in choosing men...that is a hard one. After my son's cancer diagnosis, we have talked much, repairing the hurt and working through the grieving process of my alcoholic husband who was killed in an auto accident. Such insight my son has for his 23 years! It is awesome. So for me, my life without my husband would not be a catasptophic thing EXCEPT that God calls us to community, to relationship, to an intimacy just as He has with us and I have not learned how to do that yet with a male person. Just as God made Stomi aware of how her husband's past hurts had rendered her husband incapable of being different that he was at the moment, I see mine equally incapable of being any different. Her comment that God would use her as an instrument of His deliverance if she would allow and consent to it is hitting me in a different way this morning. All that I have been learning this past year about boundaries in marriage are important to break the cycle of addiction and dysfunction, but perhaps I have allowed my heart to be hardened as a protection from further hurt. Perhaps I am more unforgiving than I realized as I become more in tune to the feelings that I have stuffed over the years. Emotionally that is all I can write this morning. Father, I do ask you to forgive my unforgiveness of my husband and I do ask you to deliver me from it and to teach me what you would have me learn so that i might be a useful tool for you. Soften my heart Father and show me how to speak truth in love without hardening my heart. IJN, Amen.

Over the past year, the Lord has drawn me closer and closer to Him. He has revealed to me time and again that I MUST keep saying the three word prayer "Change Me Lord", and that He loves me even when I fail to be obedient. Over the past year the Lord has reinforced my belief that my husband is not the enemy, Satan is, and he uses my husband to get to me, through his tools of destruction which includes alcohol, criticism, and anger. A dear sister sent me this messsage "Even though you are going through an awful time, do not think that the Lord is not working on the other end" reminding me that the Lord IS definitely working in my life. I must maintain faith in the Lord that He is working, and His Word shall not return void. Though my husband continues to spiral downward deeper into the slimy pit of alcoholism, I rejoice in the Lord, and thank Him for the mighty work he is doing in David's life. Slowly (and I mean REALLY SLOWLY) I am learning that by being obedient to the Lord and His word, peace stays in my heart and the Lord is able to work in my husband more. One of His promises that stays with me lately is "a soft answer turns away wrath". No response to a disobedient, drunken husband is the best response for my situation. Thank You Lord for revealing that truth to me. There are days when I do feel like I cannot take another minute of his belittling me, his harsh criticism of me, his anger over basically nothing, and his drunkenness. Yet through the grace of God I am still here, and so is he. The Lord has a reason for allowing Satan to sift us like wheat.... my thoughts are that my husband is getting worse because he is being deeply convicted and is getting closer to the end of himself. Therefore I pray that the Lord do whatever it takes to bring my husband to salvation. It hurts greatly now and this fiery trial is certainly painful, but I see joy at the end of the tunnel! In Stormie's preface the paragraph that speaks out to me most is: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"That's also why there is so much at stake if we don't pray. Can you imagine praying for the right side of your body and not the left? If the right side is not sustained and protected and it falls, it's going to bring down the left side with it. The same is true of you and your husband. If you pray for youself and not him, you will never find the blessing and fulfillment you want. What happens to him happens to you and you can't get around it."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes, I have felt MANY MANY times like "what is the use in praying for him" because I was not seeing answers to my prayers. My husband and I are One Flesh, what happens to him affects me also, so I pray for his deliverance and protection. For the last week or so I have started praying the prayers in POPW over my husband again. I have faith that the Lord is hearing my pleas and is working all things out for the good and His glory. What a tremendous testimony of God's love and grace my husband's transformation will be!!!

Kinf of cool that God is hitting all three of us in the same spot. Okay, Taj, where are you? What is going on in your world? What is God teaching you my sister?

I have grown alot in the last few months and have learned that I need to respect my H weather I feel like it or not. If he doesn't want to do his job as my husband I must still do my best to be the wife God wants me to be. most of all I have learned when to hold my toungue. i would really enjoy going through POPW from scratch as I missed most of it the last time around. I do look up the old threads on it from time to time but i think it would be nice to start fresh again.ps. thankyou for all your prayers!!~Irene~

Gee Whiz! A girl can't even lurk a little anymore without some old friend calling her out of the woodwork! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Growth and Goals! Sounds like a title for a country western song! Must be New Years Eve for I am feeling rather giddy and hopeful. Just drinking Rootbeer!!!!As I reflect, I thought I had come along way until this month. I feel a bit like 2 steps forward and 3 steps back. Alot was accomplished in that I held down a job for 3 months! LOL! Now that doesn't sound like much but when you've been afraid to leave the house it is a huge step. A dear friend of mine (initials SueB [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

)showed me that I was standing guard over my home out of fear of a repeat of the A! Truly this forum has been a God send to me of treasure chests of insight!Now I feel that I am on a new journey into some really heady personal stuff. I know I have alot to learn in the area of humility, gentleness, quietness, and further growth in trust. God has His work cut out in 2001!God Bless you all with His riches. I love you all so much, Taj

I knew I could count on my sister to come out of the woodwork... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I have to tell you Rootbeer, your post finished the surgical procedure that God was doing on me this morning. It just surprised me so to realize how I had quit praying for my H. Very convicting and humbling as I looked over the past years events. So, this many hours later, confession and repentence completed, I see that my journey for this year also implies some great challenges for me.S&L, you challenge me greatly in the process of respecting as God calls me to do in light of disrepect on his part. Tell me more about how you go about this, honoring yourself before the Father at the same time, not allowing disrepect for the position God has placed you in as well. Stormi really hit me when she said <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In every broken marriage, there is at least one person whose heart is hard against God.When a heart becomes hard, there is no vision from God's perspective.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Part of that struggle is that God gives man free will and though I pray, my H still has a choice to bend to the Lord's whisper, leading, calling or not. Perhaps it is a lack of faith on my part when I ask God for a new husband, to take and remake mine...not that He couldn't, but that it seems that mine has to be willing to do so and with a hard heart... sometimes I do feel confused... but at any rate, I am back to praying for His wife and will be craning my neck in expectation to see the changes He will make in me.

Oh everyone, we are on the same page. Sue you got me started yesterday! Anyhow I am too being convicted. God has shown me that yes I have been seeking, but me seeking. Instead of me seeking Him who is seeking me? Does that make sense. I have been seeking God according to how I think I need to seek Him. I have such a hard time sitting still before the Lord. I have been looking up the references to afraid. It seems that when the word 'afraid' is used it is used to say do be be afraid of Him, situations He places you in, or others who seem to be against you. Whereas 'fear' is used in references about fearing the Lord, His awesomeness, reverence of Him. Haven't finished meditating on this but the difference seems important.Anyhow I got onto this by realizing that my unbelief is based on fear. I fear that h will come to a place of wanting a divorce, he seems so smitten by the ow, my oldest daughter has now met her and the ow has even taken her shopping. Oh so many fears, and yes, Sue, fears that although in my mind I know God can change my h, I question whether it will happen.So I decided to look up this fear stuff and in so many places that Lord says do not be afraid. It is always tied with trusting Him for everything. I can say I do this, but my fears attest to some unbelief.So I too have been in prayer filled with confession, repentence and quiet. Waiting for Him to tell me how to pray for my h, and to empty myself of self and desiring to be more vulnerable to receive what He will reveal to me. I must throw off the last vestiges of unbelief and embrace that destiny which you feared to accept on account of your limitations (From Bank's book quoted in Leanne Payne's "Listening Prayer."). "The Lord, Himself goes before you and will be with you; He will never leave you not forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged." (Deuteronomy 31:8) "They are just not idle words for you-they are your life." (Deuteronomy 32:47) The big thing for me is to "shut up and pray!" I am really trying to stick to this. Whenever we talk about money it is so easy for me to start with, "well if you move home then things would be easier." I think I need just to say "yes, dear," and let God do the convicting about this. As Stormie points out, there is a time to speak and a time to be silent. I need to pray and ask God for His timing and then listen until I hear an answer. I know I drive him away when I talk about us. So I am asking the Lord to close my mouth when I am around my h.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Instead of me seeking Him who is seeking me? Does that make sense. I have been seeking God according to how I think I need to seek Him. I have such a hard time sitting still before the Lord.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Brought tears to my eyes lady....oh boy... you know, we think we have a handle on something and wham, He lets us know that we haven't a clue...YET...Got the book Pasionate Marriage after listening to Karenna nag so much... it hits too close to the mark ... we are definitely not differientated people. Read one couple scenario that took my breath away and made my stomach ache, it was so close to "us". I decided to take the risk and read it to my H and gave him the option that perhaps we could read this book together. I suppose the response could have been known before hand but it hurts nonetheless.I am getting better at walking away and calming myself. The fear verses were good HW. "They are just not idle words for you-they are your life." (Deuteronomy 32:47)This especially is interesting in light of the little things that I allow fear to control in my life. I am so grateful that God allows us to spur one another on... love you gals!

Dear SueB, You are so good for us. Thanks for asking the hard questions. Have I changed this year? You say I have. I believe it. I am much more tolerant of other peoples immaturity, frailties, faults, etc. and more compassionate for their hurts and disappointments.But I need to get back on me knees and keep praying for my H and me. I admit that I backed off on that a little too. I should pray over H as I give him backrubs at least.H has really changed. No longer is porn an issue at all. His drinking is about half what it was and not in control of him. I would be happier if I could see him go a day without a beer though.The verbal abuse is now minimal. Much less often. When he does indulge in it it is less ... "vigorous" shall we say? The episodes last for briefer periods of time, and as before, remorse always follows in the morning. Still not pleasant when it happens of course.He is slightly more solicitous, more helpful around the house, more likely to give presents, less selfish and demanding. Wow. I have a lot to be grateful for in this new year! He is a much better father too. Not as punitive as he was. He helped coach her in soccer. Yesterday he took her out for a surfing lesson and helped her learn to swim in the waves. My goal is to be softer in the voice and more friendly, less bossy with my daughter. Speaking in love. . . .Last week I read a great article on what kind of attitude one should have when going forth to serve the Lord. It was directed at people planning on missionary service, but applies to all of us in my opinion.The point was that if you go forward in God's service with an attitude, goal, or intention to improve yourself, you will indeed succeed in doing that, and also serve the Lord. But if you go with the single goal of serving God and His children, you will be even more effective in the work, and will become even more the person God wants you to be. You are more moldable in the hand of God if your eye is single toward seeking Him. I thought of my son who went to Russia as a missionary and wondered about whether his goal was to put his knowledge of the culture and language to use in the future for career enhancement, or did he really just want to serve God and mankind? And am I truly trying to serve with a pure heart without a preconceived notion of how I want to change or be changed?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Karenna: Dear SueB, You are so good for us. Thanks for asking the hard questions. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It is purely self-centered Karenna. I hate to go through hard stuff by myself... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

You're progress goes a bit further too I think as I don't see you knocking yourself as badly as before either. Think you recognize that God made you pretty neat. The changes you mentioned in your spouse are pretty exciting for sure. Can't wait until my H gets there.

Karenna, I agree with <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You are so good for us. Thanks for asking the hard questions<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>about SueB 100%!!I am so glad for the positive changes in your husband you mentioned. May the Lord continue to bless you and your husband greatly. It is so uplifting to hear about answered prayer!As I read through "The Power" and Chapter One again I was struck by what I had highlighted a year ago..... "The purpos is to ask God to make your heart right, show you how to be a good wife, share the burdens of your soul and seek God's blessing on your husband". seek God's blessing on your husband.....seek God's blessing on your husband This is what has been REALLY hard for me, changing my prayers to say "Lord, let my husband have favor today, and pour out your blessings on him" when I am frustrated with his drinking, cruelty and hatefulness. But when I do pray this way, I am actually asking the Lord to bless me, because my husband and I are One Flesh. Thank You Lord for Your revelations to me, and for the convicting power of the Holy Spirit.The last part of "The Power" again spoke to my heart.... "It's your responsibility to pray. It's God's job to answer. Leave it in His hands." I am now reading another good book, "The Excellent Wife" by Martha Peace. Will share some of it with you all later, it has some great points on changing your thoughts to be Christlike.

Create in me a Clean Heart <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In order to break down the walls in our hearts and smash the barriers that stop communication, we have to be totally up front with the Lord about our feelings....He already knows the truth. He just wants to see if we're willing to admit it and confess it as disobedience to His ways. He then has a heart with which He can work. Stormi-pp30-31<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Question #9- <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Do you have any anger, unforgiveness, hurt or disappointment toward your husband? Explain why. Even if you have good reasons for feeling the way you do, confess those negative thoughts as sin and ask God to set you free from them. I know this is hard if you feel justified in your feelings, but this prayer of confesion and repentence must come first before you can begin praying for your husband with a right heart and see answers to your prayers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think Stormi is simplifying here and so am going to throw some thoughts out... Anger in and of itself is not sin...be angry but the harboring and bathing in the anger via bitterness, self-righteousness, unwholesome responses as well as the stuffing of the feeling ergo the resulting consequences of harvesting bitterness seeds do not sin in your angerWhat about anger at God? Or anger at yourself which results in depression, the self-critical attitude, the harsh judgement of self (should have known better)Having grown up in a family where my anger was not allowed encouraged me to teach my children that anger occurs and the importance of letting it out, etc....but you know, I think I still didn't give myself permission to be angry...ergo, the resulting tears and self-condemnation for crying (big girls don't cry) and the few times I did let it out, the garbage that flew out of my mouth was horrible and I was ashamed about such a response and found myself bottling up again.Hmm...stomach knots up just thinking about it. Anyway, have you admitted that you are angry at God for the plate you have been given? Though He tells us He doesn't give us anything more than we can handle, do you sometimes feel that He was out in left field when He put your trial on your plate? And then does Satan jab at you and pour on the guilt trip for your "unchristian" thoughts and unbelief? I suppose because I am working on this log out of my own eye thing amd like you HW, trying to understand the difference between fear and being afraid, I realize that this cleansing process that Stormi talks about goes much deeper than she puts it. Did I take my love away from my child if she verbalized anger at me? Did I remove myself from her presence forever when she was mad at me? Did we not, once the air was cleared, have a deeper bond with one another. How much more so then with our Father in heaven!I challenge you to write out your anger lists so that you see it before you in print because sometimes seeing it in print increases the shame and it is this shame that binds us in our walk with the Father and feeds into the evil one's plan to confound us and keep us from progressing in our walk. And then, I urge you to find one sister with whom you can be accountable with, (even if it one of us writing to each other) that you can share this list with, keeping in alignment with the word in James 5:16: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Father, touch us as we begin again this study book on how to be the wives You would have us be, that we might learn the lessons You would have us learn, that we might become the praying wives that our husbands deserve. Help us to take down the veil of deceit that we sometimes even wear to our own selves, that nothing is hidden and that we can begin the healing process in ourselves as You work in us. IJN, Amen.

I woke at 4 a.m. this morning. I like to have a little quiet time before all the hustle and bustle of getting to daycare and then to work overtakes my thoughts. The first thing I began thinking about was all that has changed in this year. And yes, I thought of some of the things that were frustratingly the same. It always amazes me that the Lord has us all on the same page at times. God is good. I began missing the times when things were worse for me (silly, huh). What I really missed was that seeking of the Lord constantly and his presence with me. I know the Lord has been with me as he has truly done some amazing things this past year. He has been working on my situation all along, but this year has seen great strides. Last Mother's Day H was trying to keep D from me, I felt as though all was lost and OW was still a big part of picture. I sort of gave up on praying her out of the situation and became focused on God just helping me to find life again. By July, God had taken care of the OW situation (and all without my help). She grew tired of H wavering between us and cut all ties. Since then, the relationship with H has improved greatly, he is no longer wavering as much and seems to be falling in love all over again. The rough places keep happening, but I learned that God is with me even when I am not on my face crying out to him over every step. In September, I experienced great fear that I was pregnant. I truly sought the Lord(with the help of my sister's here at this forum) about that one and really set it in his hands. Even before I had the answer, I had peace in my heart that God would work out things so that it would all be okay, he would help me through it and give me what strenth and resources I needed. The answer was unexpected, a miscarriage and brush with death. Looking back, I see God using even that as it truly softened my H's heart. It was tough to go through, many tears and all the hormones that make emotions unstable. The stress of my job became unbearable, I was discouraged and overwhelmed. I had to pray through each day just to face it all. So far, every deadline has been met and God has kept his hand on the job that I have comitted to do. In November, things were improving with my H, we are still living in separate places, in different states, but the desire is in my H's heart for this to end soon. Praise God. After Thanksgiving, I had the wreck. I was strongly impressed with the belief that God had his hand on that situation. I know he protected me and brought me through it without any harm...... I did begin contemplating that two close calls on my life in two months were pretty amazing. I will not ask why, I just know that God was there for me and I felt his protection. H has been changing (and without me having to help him by talking, etc.). He is not perfect, but some of the changes I truly longed for, I am seeing. He is valuing his family and me, he is beginning to see he needs to care for my family (yesterday he told my 20 year old son that he loved him). Wow! One problem has been that I have often kept things to myself to prevent my H's wrath. He resented my relationship with my other children, my job, etc. I got to the place where I was worn out and just plain did not have the energy to keep it all to myself. If it comes out and he disapproves, I simply tell my quietly that I did not do anything wrong. Example: My brother came up this weekend and brought gifts for my and my little D. She was delighted and told my H when he arrived the next day. His old response of "Well I suppose you had plans with your brother, etc" did not raise my temp. I simply told him that my brother knew my plans were with my H. I have saved the best for last....M-I-L and H traveled to the coast after Christmas to meet with their family for a little reunion. There was some hurt feelings regarding their fears about my H's behavior (he has a bi polar condition). I encouraged my H to go when invitation was again extended (after apologies) and told him to forgive and to go and show them that he could go and stay without having anger, etc. This is a big change for H, he went and had a good time. He was invited to church and New Year's Eve Day with his family. Saturday night he told me that he didn't believe and he didn't want to go. I said a prayer that his heart would soften and God heard. He went to church, went forward to the altar and prayed. M-I-L told me first when they arrived, but H told me about it later in the evening. He said he did not want to take communion until all was right. I was given a Thomas Kincaide book for Christmas and H picked it up New Year's Day. He began reading about repentence, a lovely and hopeful outlook on this subject. He came out and said he had enjoyed church and related the service to several things in the little book. All of these things are awesome changes, but what has changed in me? I truly came to the end of my struggle to try to change anything. I was too weary and just have been trusting God to take care of me, somehow. I can't say that this inactive approach is still altogether comfortable as I have a long history of doing and controlling and being mightily independent. I believe that God has also opened my eyes to some of the things that I need to change. One is my independence, I am seeing how I have not been the easiest partner. I also know that with my H's problems, it is not easy to trust his decisions at all times. But, I know I can trust God's. Sorting, sorting, sorting, and seeing that I have a long way to go. My marriage, my H, my job, and me are all still in the process of being refined. I am just thankful that God is the one who is doing the job. To me it looks impossible, but God is doing it, he is working and this year has made that more apparent than ever before. This forum has brought me such awesome fellowship during this past year as well. I wanted to share this with you as you have been with me in prayer and have given me loving support through these situations and changes. I look forward to the changes God brings to each of us in the new year. I see God working in all of our lives and each of us has a great testimony he is developing, a testimony of God's love. A blessed new year to each of you.

Wow, Oneday, what an awesome testimony!!!

Oops, dopuble post![This message has been edited by SueB (edited January 02, 2001).]

hmmm.... Respect??? ...according to Webster: Respect: 1. to feel or show honor or seteem for. 2. to show consideration for. 3. high reguard, esteem 4. Curteous consideration 5. Expressions of reguard 6. a particular detail 7. reference; relation (with respect to him)hmmmm.....well I guess you could say i start with the easy stuff when it comes to respecting my H. it is hard to show honor or esteem you don't feel so I just try my best to be curteous and thoughtful of him, I think "how do i want to be treated". it is not always easy especially since I have recently found out that my H did not just fall out of love with me but told me he understands that love is a decision and it is his decision to not love me. (a consious decision) I think that hurt more than thinking it just happened. but i will still be considerate of him and i pick my arguments very carefully, (is it really worth the effort). if in the longrun it won't really matter why fight over it. i need to save my energy for the stuff that matters. more than anything in trying to respect my H, I must pray daily for God to work through me otherwise it is useless and I will fail. thier are so many things to not respect I must pray for the willingness to be respectful even when i would rather be anything but. I thank God for the one day that he was nice to me after my surgery, but it only lasted one day and now he expects me to just get on with life. and is frustrated I am taking my time to recoup. but I told him that I am only human and need to getter better before i just plunge right back into things and if it is so important to him to have the house clean he must do it himself till I am able. NO comment (from him) Respect is a gift you give to someone. it is not earned or deserved it is only given. I will give him the respect due him because God commands it but i must also demand his respect of me and will not be walked on any longer. I have learned you cannot give away respect unless you first respect yourself.I don't know if any of what I have said makes any sense but i hope it helps someone. but let me tell you I am not nearly so put together as I sometimes sound. I have read some of my past posts and thought "man it sounds like i am dealing with things just fine." it has only been in my moments of strenght and being held up by God that I have made it thus far and I have had manymore walks in the valley than I have on the mountaintops. ~Praise God in all things(Good and Bad)and you shall be blessed~------------------ Irene

I am always ready to begin this study again. POPW begins and ends for me with, "The Power" and "His Wife". I could study those chapters weekly and continue to get something new every time. I think it just boils down to the fact that change begins with us and until we realize that we are always in need of seeing new things we will always try to remove that log out of someone elses eye! I seem to be one who learns lessons the hard way. That is truly why I believe my life took the turn it did. I wish it were different because I know I am in for alot of discomfort but, oh well! God is still in His Holy Temple.When do we begin? Or maybe we have!

Dear SueB, you have had such positive input on so many womens lives, and you wer the first person to respond to me, when I became a member. I feel a great connection to you ,and feel you must be a wonderful women. Could you help me get started in the womans bible study? I've done some on my own here at home, but have a hard time sticking to it. Would love to here from you. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Sincerly Diane1

Hi DianeWelcome! We are studying The Power of a Praying Wife by Stormi Omartian and you can find both the book and the study guide on Amazon.com or look in your local bible book store.The focus of this study is praying for the things in our husband's lives that affect both them and us, since as Rootbeer (Alcoholic's wife) said we are one flesh and what happens to our spouses happens to us. The most important chapter in the whole book is Chapter one- His wife- in that we need to be making changes in ourselves to be the kind of wife our husband needs. This will be the third time we have gone through this study, so you can do a search on Chapter one on all our posts and find the original discussion and the study guide questions through the bible study thread. God pulls us back to Chapter one a lot!Sometimes God allows yuch in our lives to get our attention, to pull us back to where we need to be. Perhaps this is so in your case. At any rate, we are blessed to have you in our study group. On Tuesdays, we write out a prayer thread and pray together in our homes in one spirit for the other in this group. There also is a large thread on this forum from the Boundaries in Marriage book that might be helpful to you as well.Again, God bless and welcome.

Thank you for the warm welcome, I will work on getting the books, and check back in. I agree with ,god throwing us in the yuch to get us back where we belong, I do think that is so in my case.Once again thank you,Diane

Hi SueB, where do I find the largethread ,Boundries in Marriage book? Thank you Diane

The tough questionsAs I have shared with you before I am working on a Step four of the 12 steps program for healing of damaged emotions from a biblical based study called The Twelve Steps-A Spiritual Journey from RPI Publishing, Inc..As in any 12-step program, step four is the process of making a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves, based on Lam. 3:40- Let us examine our ways and test them, and let us return to the Lord.This is not something that can begin and end in a day. The moral inventory is a list of our strengths and our weaknesses, also identified as wrongs, character defects, faults, and shortcomings. It is prayerfully accomplished with God's help for our benefit.Many of us developed survival skills in childhood to cope with growing up, with living in our immediate households. Some of us may have had tough childhoods, with abuse, etc. Others of us may have had the stress of high expectations, a life filled with perfectionist expectations. The purpose for such an inventory is for self-discovery, not to place blame for our problems on environment or family of origin or anything else. It is to discover how we coped as children and how those coping skills traveled with us into adulthood and into our marriages. It is the rooting out of behaviors that once may have had a place in our lives for necessity but no longer serve a purpose and keeps us from forming those intimate relationships that we desire. I kiddingly told Karenna that I hate to go through the hard stuff by myself, but my motives for this post is much more. In my life experiences I have found that if there is an area that I need to work on, there usually is someone close by who also needs to work on the same thing and God tells us that two are much better than one. That we all desire to become the woman God would have us become, He is the third strand in the unshakable cord of three strands. Though we often look at this verse in relationship to marriage, I believe it is applicable to believers in general and our sisterhood in Christ in specific that this applies to us as well.So, as I ask God to change me, I am going to delve into some of this step four stuff and throw out information and questions to spur you to greater in depth thinking. HW mentions the sorting out the differences between the word "fear" and the word afraid and how they apply to us as believers. Rootbeer is going to share some of the things she too is learning from the book she is reading. I am just sensing God challenging us to go deeper this time. Taj is a marvel at remembering many things from previous readings and also provides a wealth of information for us. Karenna also brings gifts to the forum with her honesty and truthfulness. We have new women joining us and we have another opportunity to get to know one another and to grow from them as well.I am excited about this. ?. So let's begin.

SueB,I have to comment on the strength and weaknesses assessment, probably because it was one of the questions asked at my job interview today. I was able to off the top of my head verbalize what I viewed as the things I could bring to this job which I considered and asset as well as those things which potentially could be a hindrance. Interestingly enough the very things which I listed as weaknesses are things which in the Kingdom of God are considered strengths! I was taken aback as I considered later on how we really need God's guidance through such an assessment.Let me give an example. I am a people person. I enjoy people and have the ability to empathize with people in their situations. I feel for their pain and want to enter into that pain to the degree that they feel support and sensitivity from another. That sounds well and good from God's perspective but from the worlds perspective that is becoming too personally involved and essentially loosing perspective. So, my question is, "Is that a strength or a weakness?"We must be very careful as God's children to weigh ourselves on His scales and not the scales of this world! The evil one would have us accentuate what the world considers the positive and God considers the negative. I would rather flounder from the world's perspective and excel in the eyes of the Creator!Just some thoughts! Taj

PS 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart; test me and know my anxious thoughts. PS 139:24 See if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting. I agree fully my sister. It is from the scriptures that I want us to search for the truth regarding our strengths and weaknesses as God reveals them to us.The example you cited is of course a strength. Where it becomes a weakness is when you do the feeling FOR them, when you do not allow them to solve their own problems but attempt to solve them for them rather than continuing the at their side as support while they go through the struggle and solve their own problems, which gives them a sense of mastery and confidence to continue to grow. As a side supporter you instill in them a belief in themselves, and a willingness to stand firm with them through the tough times rather than controlling the situation and fixing it which undermines their sense of worthiness and ability to fix anything.As with anything, the evil one wants to muddy up stuff so that is why I want to compare anything we do with the word of God. Thanks for the reminder.[This message has been edited by SueB (edited January 04, 2001).]

John 1: 9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world. RO 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."* [8] But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead. [9] Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. [10] I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. [11] For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. [12] So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. RO 7:13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. RO 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [15] I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [16] And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [17] As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [18] I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.* For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [19] For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do--this I keep on doing. [20] Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. RO 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [22] For in my inner being I delight in God's law; [23] but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. [24] What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? [25] Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! 1JN 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. [6] If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. [7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. Step four helps us get in touch with our "shadow" that part of us that we have hidden away for so long--our repressed nature. We will understand that our shadow is an integral part of our nature and must be accepted by us. This part of our nature hides our resentments, fears, and other repressed feelings. As we begin to see ourselves, we will learn to accept our whole character -the good and the bad- which will free us to discover survival behaviors that began in childhood. While "shadow" sounds very unlike Christian terminology, the idea of a battle between light and dark is a biblical truth as shown in the above verses. Just as on a sunny day our shadow follows our every move, our dark side or fallen nature is always with us. The darkness we carry within us, the sin nature that Paul talks about, is most evident when contrasted with the light of truth, God's word. Col 3:5-8 challenges us to get rid of those things that belong to our earthly nature so that we may develop more the character of God. I John 1:9 tells us to confess with our lips those sins of ours and yet, if we do not dig and identify with God's help, those areas that need to be exorcised. So I challenge us to look at the survival skills we developed and more than likely have perfected as we became adults to protect ourselves, which interfere with receiving the fullness of joy. Three specific areas to investigate are denial, resentment and fear. Other categories fall under these three areas and we will investigate them a bit at a time. For now, let's look at denial. Denial is a key survival skill that we learned in childhood. It stunted our emotional growth by keeping us in a make-believe world. We often fantasized that our situation was better than it really was. Denial protected us from our feelings and helped us repress the pain we felt around us, whether it was the family environment, perfectionist tendencies, unrealistic expectations, etc. Our shame and guilt caused us to be silent, rather than to be honest and face the fear of being ridiculed by others. This withdrawal hindered us from developing into mature, emotionally healthy adults. The inability to control our environment utilized denial as a way of dealing with the confusion, instability or perhaps even violence of the adults around us. We rationalized what was happening, and invented acceptable reasons for their unacceptable behavior. By doing this, we ignored the chaos and denied the overwhelming problems. As we matured, our denial continued to protect us from the need to face reality and helped us hide behind our delusions and fantasies. Question #1. In what ways do you tend to deny from reality? JER 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? JER 17:10 "I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve." Question #2. Describe an action or behavior that reminds you that you have a deceitful heart.Remember that Peter could not imagine that he could possibly ever come across a situation where he would deny our Lord and yet, as the Lord told him, he denied Him 3 times. When the rooster crowed and Peter realized what he had done, he was devastated! In much the same way, when we realize what denial has done to us, we experience feelings of self-hatred. It is now that the denial needs to be acknowledge and resolved. Question #3- Explain ways in which denial causes you pain or embarrassment.Types of Denial <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Simple denial: To pretend that something does not exist when it really does. (i.e. discounting physical symptoms that may suggest the presence of problems) Minimizing: To acknowledge a problem, but refuse to see its severity (admitting to an over usage of prescription drugs when in fact there is overt addiction or admitting anger problem in the home when there has been actual physical attacks) Blaming: To recognize the problem, then blame someone else for its cause (i.e. blaming others for your tendency to isolate) Excusing: To offer excuses, alibis, justifications, and other explanations for our own or others' behavior (i.e. calling in sick for a partner when the actual cause of the absence is drunkenness) Generalizing: To deal with problems on a general level which typically avoids personal and emotional awareness of the situation or conditions (i.e. sympathizing with a friend's unemployment when you know the underlying cause is irresponsibility) Dodging: To change the subject to avoid threatening topics (i.e. talking about the weather when your spouse is discussing the overdrawn checkbook) Attacking: To become angry and irritable when reference is made to the existing condition, thus avoiding the issue (i.e. arguing about work conditions when the boss addresses tardiness) quoted from The twelve steps-A Spiritual Journey-pp72-73<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Question #4- In what areas of your life do you suspect that denial is most active? Galatians 6:3 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. [4] Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, [5] for each one should carry his own load. Question #5- How does pride keep you from being honest with yourself? Remember Stormi reminds us that it's impossible to truly give ourselves in prayer for our husbands without first examining our own hearts. We cannot go to God and expect answers if we harbor unforgiveness, bitterness or resentment. If we find that we see ourselves in some of the examples above regarding denial, then surely we have more to ask forgiveness for. [This message has been edited by SueB (edited January 03, 2001).]

Question #1. In what ways do you tend to deny from reality? I'm really thinking hard about this stuff..... and having a rough time. I think I have denied reality in that I want so much to believe that my husband loves me..... when his behavior (the reality) indicates he doesn't. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Our shame and guilt caused us to be silent, rather than to be honest and face the fear of being ridiculed by others<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This is true for me....in the here and now... not my childhood. That part was good. I don't make things up but instead do not mention my husband or family life to others, especially my co-workers, as I am ashamed that I have allowed this man to treat me like a piece of dirt he kicks around with his boots. Question #2. Describe an action or behavior that reminds you that you have a deceitful heart.Have been tempted to verbally attack husband back, even think out the words I would say that I thought would hurt him as much has he hurts me. This is sin and I confess it to the Lord. Even though I did not actually do this, it is still evidence of having a deceitful heart. I have had a difficult time overcoming negative thoughts and sometimes words about others and to them - i.e., old bosses I didn't like, computer users at work, the OW, etc. Lately I pray and ask the Lord to show me what I need to repent of and if there is anyone I need to forgive or ask forgiveness of. I am trying, really trying, yet many times I feel overwhelmed and that I will never get it right. Satan attacks, sticks negative, degrading thoughts in my mind and I get discouraged. Which is exactly what he wants to happen. It is all a spiritual battle and the battleground is our minds. Praise God we have the Savior we can call on to lift us up and fight the battle for us. My problem is remembering that I don't have to fight the battle, He will, and then let him.Will tackle more questions tomorrow.... my mind is weary tonight.

Oneday - your post was wonderful. Thank you so much for sharing it. I am thrilled about all the positive changes the Lord has brought about in your husband, and your life. May He bless you abundantly and I pray that you have favor wherever you go, and in whatever you do. Wow, it is so great that your husband went to the altar and prayed!!! That just made my day.

It is wearying to think about these things AW. That's why I didn't answer anything last night. Had to think on these things a bit. What I just caught myself doing was rationalizing and minimizing my childhood!I too was going to write that I didn't think my childhood was affected, but my choices as an adult is where I made my errors, but I just heard that gentle voice asking if I was rationalizing and minimizing...wow, I was going to say that my mother worked really hard to overcome her abusive childhood and do something different to break the cycle of abuse, which is is true, but the reality of it, also which is true, is that she became so rigid in her attempt and really hadn't developed any other coping skills herself, that verbal abuse that occurred in our house probably cut to the heart far deeper than any physical striking. My poor mom had such a need for control and to feel powerful in her part of the world. Funny, I had worked through the anger part of this 15 years ago and worked on understanding her hurt, which I can, but I realize today, I minimized the pain I experienced through this all. Her comments to me that I didn't have a clue what abuse was and that she would be glad to show me abuse kept me in the fear mode for compliance. That combined with my father's perfectionism which stated I should try harder really instilled the need to perform to be loved modis that I have operated under all these years. I think more than anything that is why I cry when I realize what Christ did for me because of the love God has for me in John 3:16. I didn't have to DO anything, I didn't have to perform or earn the love.Wow, so yes, I have to admit that I have not been living in reality, that my childhood was abusive, that I was raised in fear and rigidity, that though I did not receive physical marks for the most part, the implied references for what could be as I was backed in corners with threats, with ample words of how worthless I was and how powerless I was, the gleam in her eye as she bragged about loving to back me against the wall and slap me in the face to humiliate me...hmmmm hadn't thought of these things for years. To see how it played out then and how I have continued to try and perform all these years to keep the peace. To realize that when I did try to stand up for myself, I felt shame and guilt for doing so, and how I then in turn developed a sensitive heart for those who were in abusive situations and could fight eloquently for them, build them up to do the very things I couldn't do for myself. To realize that since I considered myself as not worthy, it didn't matter what happened to me but it mattered what happened to others.And so this is clicking for me in my growing process of trying to understand that as a daughter of the king I do not deserve to be spoken to in the manner that I have allowed and the Boundaries stuff seems to make more sense to me. Have to think on this more and probably do some grieving...will write more later...Father continue to shine your light that the dark corners of our lives become clearer, that we understand the truths around us, the patterns of defensiveness that we have developed over the years. Show me the offensive areas of my life that I may be healed and a useful vessel that You are able to work through. IJN, Amen.

SueB: Your last post struck a deep chord within me. Minimizing, experiencing childhood abuse, and feeling that everyone else deserves ggod,except for me. I know the Lord has been trying to work on these issues with me and that they are certainly key for me to grow. I have been praying to understand why all this emotional stuff is now surfacing in my life. And yet, I know that God has been dealing with me about old hurts as he has been healing me. Several years ago, I had a clear understanding that he wanted to heal me of hurts going back to my childhood, as well as the recent hurts from my H's adultery. Yesterday,I posted about all of the awesome changes that have happened this year and I am awed and full of gratitude. And yet, I know that all is not resolved in my life. I am learning to trust God deeply, but I do not trust myself. I feel as though I am helpless and inept on a personal level. I know our Father has a work to do in me. And....yesterday proved that. H called and wants D to return to him. He has free pre-school and told me (once again) that I need to make the concessions to finalize the completion of our reuniting. I recognize he has many changes to make (yelling, cussing, and generally abusive behavior). I do have hope that God can change his heart and continue to pray for that. Recent changes give me a tangible reason to hope for this. At H's demands, my heart began mourning at the thought of being separated from my D again. I want to share her (as I know he misses her as I do), but I see that the ideal would be to live in the same home. I prayed that God would show me what I should do. I guess I have become content with seeing H frequently and leaving him with his Mother while God takes off the rough edges. I now feel pressured. I have to give him my decision today. His reason for putting D in daycare and keeping her with him, is financial. My finances are actually better now than ever and although the absence of a daycare expense would help me to get out of debt quicker, I can manage to pay my bills and daycare and I have not asked or received any help from him to do so. Our daughter told me that she wants to stay here with me (because Daddy yells) and have him come be with us. In favor of him coming to live here: I own a house and I have a good job. Moving to where he lives would mean sharing one room with H and D as he lives with his Mom. He does not have a job at this time. The economy is tight where he is at and it seems as though the changes I would have to make to go to him would be monumental compared with the ease with which he could come back here.In favor of his request, I love my m-i-l and have concern for her living alone, the place he lives is beautiful, the pace of life is more peaceful (perhaps I could use that) and it is away from here where our problems began. A fresh new start. M-i-l pointed out that all these concerns can be taken care of if this is God's plan. I tried Karenna's wonderful suggestion about praying the possibilities and finding an answer this way. My only clear answer is rooted in my childhood pain and that is "I do not want my daughter to feel unwanted, abandoned, or unloved." As she said she wants to stay here with me, I do not want to send her away. I was hoping that God would arrange circumstances to make this stand for me, like H changing his mind, the daycare not having room, etc. He didn't. I am now praying for strength to stand up and tell my H that our feelings (mine and D's) are important. Money isn't. I need to tell him that the fair thing to do would be for him to come here until we can all plan and make this move under better circumstances. By this I mean with jobs in place and the ability to quickly get a home of our own. I feel like a frozen little rabbit, afraid that H will bully D away from me. I understand that his motives are somewhat pure in that he is seeking to put our family back together. I would probably be more comfortable with the move if he had a job and some security to offer. He is expecting me to come over and be the breadwinner. I don't want the sole responsibility of starting over. I don't want to give up having a home of my own. I don't want the pressure of needing to quickly find an adequate job in a harsh economy. I have looked into job possibilities and pay is substantially less and good jobs are minimal. I know it is not impossible, but after putting this decision before the Lord, I would expect at least a seed of emotion spurring me to make the move. On top of H's move to pressure me in this way, some work related concerns were magnified and the old pressure cooker began boiling on that front. I can only trust in God, I have asked him to change my life, to weed and sort and prune it and plant worthwhile things in it. So, I guess this situation is highlighting the fact that I minimize issues until they overwhelm me. I avoid conflict until I have no choice and then I face it with an out of control response based in panic. Others see me as patient, easy going, calm, a strength in the midst of great stress. What I am is afraid to do anything that makes things more unpleasant. I work hard at pleasing all the people in my life and that is impossible. I love the scripture stating "The battle is mine, sayeth the Lord". I do not want to fight any battles in my life. My tendency to minimize rationalizes that this non-confrontational stance is consistent with the Lord's desire for us. Partly true, partly untrue. I think that God wants to have children who are willing and able to be obedient to all tasks he calls us to perform. This means that my weakness in this area can become a hindrance. On a professional level, I have learned to be fairly healthy in my responses as it is easy to set my emotions aside. I can match my response and show of strength, in a manner consistent with the requirements of the given situation. But on a personal level, I am a whole different person. I am afraid of losing the love and esteem of those I love and in response, I am ineffective and weak. A lot to ponder. It is amazing how God puts these issues right in front of our path and we have no choice but to deal with it. I am praying that he gives me the strenth and wisdom to do what he sees is right.

Oneday, I do so appreciate your honest response. I really do think God is trying to free us so that we can experience love as He designed it. In response to your struggle, I will pray for you for wisdom and boldness. You are right,you and your daughter are worthy of being loved and not being yelled at. I suspect that God will honor your limit to your husband in more ways than you will realize. He will reward your steps to be honest, He will reward your obedience to speaking the truth in love, He will reward that you take your responsibility towards the gift He gave you, your daughter, and are considering her best interests to not be around verbal abuse and yelling. And He will reward your desire to do right in spite of all the options before you. He will give you the answer, but perhaps it is you taking the steps of obedience (loving confrontation) first. We know He works in all things and as you have stated, there are many answers you have already seen as evidence of God working in your life.Question #2. Describe an action or behavior that reminds you that you have a deceitful heart. The best way I can describe it is planning for safety nets, self-protection,what I would do if scenarios I can develop elaborate plans in my mind. I even have in the past quit sharing with those who care about me out of fear that they would tell me my plan was a bad one, or try to convince me to not make plans? I have been working hard this past month not to do that, to focus on honesty even if it is scary and that is where my accountability partner came up with the need to do the step 4 thing so that I could be accountable to my own self and admit those parts that are mine. Question #3- Explain ways in which denial causes you pain or embarrassment. I too am embarrassed by my husband's behavior towards me, and the fact that I have allowed this to continue for so long. I take one kind act and try to use it as a cover up for the 20 bad acts, minimizing the impact they have had on me. I would be embarrassed if the body knew the demands my H makes on me, so I feel my denial of the problem is dishonesty on my part and I feel ashamed. I don't embellish lies about my husband but my silence about the truth seems to be a lie in itself. I am embarrassed because honesty is important to me and I feel I am compromising myself as well as God's truth that I hold dear. On the other hand, God does call us to be discerning and to get wisdom, so my telling all would not be speaking of my husband in an honoring way, and I think of the Proverbs 31 woman who did not harm her husband. Question #4- In what areas of your life do you suspect that denial is most active? Intimate male/female relationships. With people who are supposed to love me. I can make a ton of excuses for everyone but myself. I can justify everyone's behavior. I can generalize and dodge and minimize like a pro. Saddest of all though is the realization that I deny myself, my feelings, my worth in God's eyes, the gifts I have been given, etc.Father, I lay all these deficits before you, the areas where I have been deceitful and in denial, where I would have preferred to not confront and just excuse behaviors around me rather than take a stand for myself and you. Where I minimized the impact of the hurt I felt rather than expose myself. Where I manipulated with my silent thoughts hidden away and unspoken lest the darkness within me be brought before the light. You have shown me many things today and I know I will have to meditate on them more to fully understand, but I thank you for the Holy Spirit and for the tenacity you have for sticking by me when I didn't even stick by my self. Father forgive me of these things and continue to bring forth those areas that I have failed you that the slate may be fully wiped clean and the healing can occur. I give you the praise and glory. And Father, thank you for the openess of Oneday, for her ability to share her own struggles. Father give her your wisdom and a godly bodnes to be obedient to what she believes to be true as she seeks your face. Father, you have said that we can boldly come before the throne, and that we should be afraid of no one except for you. If then we have permission to come boldly before you, give Oneday the same boldness to go before her husband and state her limits for herself and her daughter. Contnue to soften her husband's heart and prepare it to hear what his wife has to say with great understanding. We ask these things in Jesus' name, Amen [This message has been edited by SueB (edited January 05, 2001).]

Thank you, SueB

Thank You Lord for this forum, and the opportunity to fellowship with these dear praying wives. Father I praise You and give thanks to you for all You have done, and are now doing in our lives. Thank You especially Lord for moving in Oneday's husband's life, and the softening of his heart. We know You hear our prayers, and are answering them. Thank You Lord. I thank You for giving Oneday the courage to share her testimony with us, giving us a glimmer of hope for our situations. Lord, we KNOW you are in control, and trust You to handle everything. Help us Lord, to stay out of your way. IJN I pray, AMEN.SueB, sounds like we're on the same page on this denial thing. Your answer to Question 2 is pretty much what I would have to say. I would say I have been denying the reality to my co-workers the most. Mostly, I avoid the subject altogether. I don't mention my husband to them at all. It is especially hard on days after holidays (like Christmas, Mother's Day, etc.) as they want to talk about what their spouses did for them etc. The reality of what it should be hurts me too much I guess. I am asking the Lord to take that pain away, and replace it with joy in Him.Question #4- In what areas of your life do you suspect that denial is most active?Hard one for me to answer. It's a toss up between the depth of the alcoholism and the abuse. For a long time I told myself that my husband's physical ailments were anything but what they really are - signs of liver disease. I must leave this in the Lord's hands as it is just too much for me to handle.

The threads were pretty quiet last night, hopefully all are reflecting and not turned off by the challenge to dig deeply and root out those things that cause us to all stumble. Stormie talks about the painfulness of allowing God to change us, especially when we think our spouse is the one who needs to change more than we do. She is also adamant that dying to self does not mean being a doormat or placing ourselves in abusive situations and in fact encourages us to go to a place of safety if we are in physical or emotional danger and to pray for our H within that safety. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Lev 26:19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. [20] Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of the land yield their fruit.PS 10:4 In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.PR 11:2 When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.PR 13:10 Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice.PR 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.PR 29:23 A man's pride brings him low, but a man of lowly spirit gains honor. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Question #5- How does pride keep you from being honest with yourself?Interesting question. I would have to admit that my pride keeps me from the honesty of admitting failure I think, and at first glance I believed this to be a kid thing as I am having the hardest time letting go of the try harder kid message. Part of that goes with what would others think stuff, the performance for love standard I was brought up with. Or what would all the people who gave me wedding presents and told me I was nuts to be giving everything up and traveling 3000 miles away to marry my husband say? I didn't do this without a lot of prayer. Again I am aware of the soft question, am I being honest with myself now, am I rationalizing? As I was reading the Word (Lev 26) this morning, I was again brought back to Romans 7 and my sinful nature, my desire to good and then doing what is wrong. I do know without a doubt that I was supposed to come here and marry this man. I do know that God has a plan for us as a couple. I arrogantly thought that I was to be used to bring this man closer to the Lord, and that indeed may be part of the plan, but I am also honestly and painful aware during this digging process that there are things that God is wanting me to get rid of and that perhaps these challenges before me are part of that rooting process in developing a closer walk myself with the Lord. My own pride in the walk I have with the Lord has hidden the truthfulness that I am not there yet, that I have much to learn and that I am sinning big time! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 2CO 10:12 We do not dare to classify or compare ourselves with some who commend themselves. When they measure themselves by themselves and compare themselves with themselves, they are not wise. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The double-edged sword strikes again! My husband once told me that he thought I was too complacent in my relationship with the Lord. I discounted his words, I felt the peace I had was from my confidence in whom I believed, but gosh, this morning, I am thinking that perhaps the Lord used my husband in a mighty way and I disregarded the wisdom of His words through my husband!That somewhere in here, I have considered myself as better than in regards to spiritual issues. Hard pill to swallow? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> PHP 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. [16] Only let us live up to what we have already attained. 1PE 4:7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear-minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. [8] Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. [9] Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling. [10] Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. [11] If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My mind is spinning here as I think on these things, as I realize that I took an act of kindness from my husband and tried to cover 20 acts of unkindness because love covers over a multitude of sins when in fact, it would have been more loving to confront the sin with truth (setting limits, not letting it slide) and to verbalize admiration and appreciation to the max for the one act of kindness so that my husband would be spurred on to more acts of the same. Made the mistake of reading Passionate Marriage yesterday without my highlighter so can't find what I am looking for, but the point that I heard repeated, just as Gary Smalley or Harley has said, is that one person can make a difference in their marriage. Schnarch explained it though in a way that finally grabbed me to a greater understanding. Being creatures of comfort we dislike change, so behaviors, even yuchy ones, fill our knowledge base in terms of the expected. We do or say A and we know spouse is going to do or say B. We may not like B (and even hope for a revelation and changed response) but it is comforting to know that we know exactly what will happen in a given situation. Sort of a control thing I think, of making sense of our world as we see it. When we make a change in our words, behavior, and etc. this changes the dynamics and throws our spouse off from his expected perception of how he relates to you, that is you say A and he says B, end of discussion?. So today you make a choice to say or do C and his expected response of B is still there, but he realizes something was different, you didn't react the same way. You changed the rules, you responded softly or said nothing, you apologized and told him he was right, or you set a limit?. whichever occurred, the change threw him, so he responds again, B, only this time with more emphasis! He is still waiting for the A to come from you as expected. You are getting stronger and more confident in yourself with this new mode of operation and you continue with C, so now he is increasing his B with anger, a higher intensity, etc. and you are continuing to respond with C and the man feels totally out of control and he is now in the position of deciding what he needs to do to become comfortable.You have provided an opportunity for your spouse to grow. By remaining true and steadfast to your C and not wavering, you are continuing to love your husband in a positive way, you are not controlling his responses, and you are encouraging him to make choices and to grow with you. When we tire of doing good, (doing C) and slide back into A responses, so that his B responses are once again comfortable for him, our regression hurts both of us and improvement is further impaired. Gives me a whole new insight into Gal. 6:9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.I mention this as last night my husband and I were once again doing the A/B thing and I really felt led to do the C thing. This time it worked! It was swallowing my pride and acting more loving as Jesus would. My husband's behavior change continued through this morning. Will it work tonight or tomorrow? Don't know, but it was an encouragement enough for me to risk continuing it for the betterment of our marriage. Father, thank you for Your Holy Spirit who guides us with Your truth and love. Father, I am so humbled at what You have revealed to me today about my pride and my sin nature. Father, take this pride from me. Forgive me for this sin. Cleanse me and continue to teach me that I can become the wife that You would have me be for my husband. Thank you for making me see that my husband did have insight so long ago about my complacency and that I dishonored him by discounting his counsel. Continue to teach us how to communicate with one another in Your Spirit, so that we hear one another with Your heart and not out of our own selfishness.Bless this study today and these women that we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, to encourage one another for Your righteousness. IJN, Amen.

I still haven't received the book from Amazon-maybe it'll come today [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Sorry, ahead of time--I don't know how to do the quotes!1) In what ways do you tend to deny from reality? In the past I've really run away or reacted, but I've been learning (and still am very much so learning) to face issues and not self protect and withdraw. I've come a long way, but am still learning. Sometimes too instead of trusting what God says--I figure it out from life (I didn't use to do this, but started due to dissillusionment). But like they said in Sunday school, God's promises ALWAYS come true. For Noah it took 100 years, for Abraham some of God's promises took 2,000 years to accomplish, but all of them were fulfilled and could be relied upon! Abraham understood this better than me and I'm still struggling and learning.2) Describe an action or behavior that reminds you that you have a deceitful heart. Someone said safety nets and backup plans. That is what I've come to learn and it has been learned for me. I used to have this blind faith in God, but although there was a lot of faith it wasn't mature or something (that worked for about 20 years)but life happened and I wasn't prepared and mature enough. I struggle with what is wrong with safety nets and backup plans as I felt I learned the necessity of them and seek God for them, but sometimes I know they are wrong and are based on my fear and reactions to events perceived or true and that is wrong. Honestly is too something I've really been facing this last year. Tremendously so. I didn't realize my heart was being dishonest even with myself and I was very challenged in this area. Other people in my life "got the idea" that I didn't want to discuss something (for example) and backed off and accepted it and my boyfriend wouldn't be so easy on me-and this was very good as it really challenged me to look within my heart and see my reactions and responses and how they affected him. I was always gentle, but I wasn't always honest about my heart-with myself or others!3) Ways denial has caused me pain or embarassment? Well, I've learned denial is not dealing with reality (although it takes work sometimes to determine what reality is-it takes communication at least!). I can't think of a specific illustration to give-sorry. I don't know that denial has caused me embarassment (that I can remember) but it has caused me pain and does cause that as it keeps people in pain until you can get beyond it. I think it's here at MB that I've read the stages being something like: the bomb--conflict(or hearing/recognizing truth that hurts and is painful), denial, acceptance of responsibility, centering (finding the way through it), and intimacy. 4) In what areas of life do you suspect that denial is most active? Boy, I feel like that varies from day to day. I get frustrated at feeling like I have to do all the work (and still after I've done so much changing and growing that I still have so far to go). This is true in my relationships and just God dealing with me. It's amazing how great His patience and love is! He has patience with me when I don't with myself!

Just realized something intellectually (meaning it's a lot harder to live it!!!!) But we aren't supposed to treat our SO according to how they treat us at all or operate out of that (other than dealing with reality). So I'm not supposed to live in reaction to Mark loves me , but as a reaction to my Father's love and patience. I'm supposed to shine on Mark that response to my Father and His love and patience. Hard to do though...HM

I still say 1 Cor 13 is our best source of what love is and is not, so we need to use that as the guide for our actions. And yes, it does not matter how our love ones respond, we are first and foremost accountable to God. How our love ones act may give us a clue about things we need to do though, i.e. speak the hard truth in love, set limits/boundaries, etc. but we love because He first loved us...And yes, it is hard to live out!

Sue,This is a great thread!!!!! My silence is because I am thinking about this. It is tough material for me and sometimes denial can also serve a purpose. If I weren't in denial to some extend I would not wait and stand for either my marriage or my husband. So I am serching this material to discover how denial has hurt the relationship in the past, but still choosing some denial so I can remain hopeful! Make sense?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by hw: It is tough material for me and sometimes denial can also serve a purpose. If I weren't in denial to some extend I would not wait and stand for either my marriage or my husband. So I am serching this material to discover how denial has hurt the relationship in the past, but still choosing some denial so I can remain hopeful! Make sense? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Since we have just begun this digging, I do understand that you feel if you were not in denial, then you would have no hope. I suspect though when we get through some of this (and there is a lot!) you will realize that the denial will not be necessary and that you will be able to comfortably deal straight forwardly with the truth to be able to address J differently. I know right now, the outward appearance is that he is making a life without you, but don't you see, that is why God looks at the heart, for the outward appearances are often very deceiving? Think of the masks that you can succesfully wear. How many times have you in the past gone to business functions and successfully acted out the part of the loving wife with the greatest family with no problems and no one knew any different? One of the books suggested that our feeling part is the little child in us and suggested that we dig through our photos and find the picture of ourselves that we relate most to when we think of ourselves as a child. Then we are to tape that pic near our computer or desk or the bathroom mirror, wherever we spend most of our time, so that child's face is in our presence a lot. This is the face that needs nurturing and loved. When you look at her, what do you feel, what do you think about, etc. I scanned mine and put her on the desktop of my puter. It has been there about a month now and I can say I do feel differently about her today from a month ago. I named her Carrie as she is someone needing care and I am the one who can give it to her. I stare at her little face and my heart is warming towards her. She is impish and has a touch of stubborness in her face and I actually smile now when I see her. I feel protective of her in a loving motherly way rather than the critical motherly way now. I feel proud of her rather than wanting to stuff her behind me so no one will see her. It really has been an interesting thing. Try it. Attach the pic to your books you are studying, a binder or whatever you use to keep track of your school stuff. When friends see the pic, introduce the little girl as someone you are learning to love, do love or are caring for.Like Stormie says, we have to be totally honest with God in order to break down the walls in our hearts and smash the barriers that stop communication-totally up front about our feelings with Him. There is no need to pretty it up for Him because He already knows the truth and He wants to see if we are willing to admit it and confess it as disobedience to His ways. He wants our hearts to become workable and moldable for Him.Hugs to you. You know my email if you need to rant.

I don't know how you all do it. I have always had a very difficult time being honest with my self about my childhood. to the extent that untill the last couple years I just blocked out most of it. as the distance between my husband and i grew it must have spurred these memories to surface and boy are they painful. most of my memories come in the form of very vivid dreams and would reaccure night after night. finally I started asking my father suttle questions so that I might unlock the mystery to my dreams. unfortunately the dreams I have been having have been the real life nightmares brought back to life. rather than dealing with these memories I have been trying to suppress them again. I have not been very successful in this attempt. apparently God wants me to deal with it so that i can have a healthy relationship with my H someday. I have learned where some of the breakdown has come from.as I was growing up I never really felt wanted. my mom was always pawning us off on other people and my dad had to have his arm twisted in order to custody of my brother and I as children. then when i was about 10 my mom told me that I was an accident, that she didn't want me and had abortion been leagal she would never have had me. until recently I never knew just how bad this had hurt me. since then i never really believed i was wanted and always drew into my own little world. when my husband and i met and fell in love i was elated but deep down i didn't believe it. looking back i can see i have always been insecure and "needy" always wanting him to prove he loved me, more or less I was verry emotionaly demanding and in a way have worn him down. when he told me he didn't love me anymore it was living all over again the day my mom told me i wasn't wanted. i was totally devestated. now i just need to figure out how to deal with it. I guess you could say this is the first time that i have been completly honest with this part of growing up. I have always till now tried to rationalize and minimize what my mom told me and tell my self it doesn't really matter, well...IT DOES!!sorry if I am just rambling but it does help to get it out.------------------ Irene

Hi Sister, Yeah, it hurts... my story includes the statement by my mother that if she had to do it all over again, she would never have had children....but you know....the truth is, she never was in control of it at all. God knew you and I while we were being formed in the womb. He knew all that we would experience and go through and He has had a plan for us since that time. Would we realize how wanted and special we are to Him if we would have had a different chidhood? I think not. He has always wanted us S&L, don't ever forget that. You are unique and holy and special. He proved that by allowing Christ to die on the cross for You!Dreams generally are the way we try to deal with the anxieties that we are experiencing and not verbalizing, a way of letting it out. As you continue to verbalize it, I do believe your dreams will lessen. If you don't have a prayer sister, I would be honored if you chose to write to me so that it doesn't stay inside if you don't feel you can share it here.Hugs!

Thankyou sue B i would appreciate having you as a prayer sister. It is nice to know that i am not alone out here. as i am working through these feelings that i am starting to accept that they exist i am starting to see that God does love me, even when i don't feel it. I need to learn to get away from the feelings and learn to just know God is there even when i don't feel him.I know it in my head now i need to learn it with my heart. I am never alone, God is always there. ------------------ Irene

My email is eramhoff@home.com. Write any time!

thanks sue BI finally bought the study guide for popw. boy that first chapter, "His wife" is a doosy! I didn't really like what i learned, but now i can work on it since i can see it. (If i were my H I'd want to split too.)Lord, i pray that you change me from the inside out and make me into the wife that you want me to be and the wife David needs.(i won't say amen cause this is a constant prayer. to be repeated over and over.)------------------ Irene

Question 6. What anxieties do you have about memories of your past? I guess honestly I would have to admit that there are things in my past that I would not want revealed now, so the anxiety would be to have those things to surface now. They are things that I have confessed and been forgiven for, but the anxiety surrounds the fact that people are not as gracious as my Lord. I think God can use those things for my growth and benefit, but at the same time to have to revisit them and to know the pain they would cause others, sets me back some. I have confessed these things to another person as well as the Lord and sometimes I wonder how much Satan stirs up the anxiety when the memories resurface since I know I am forgiven for those things.Question 7. Which of your behaviors are most damaging to your life? Explain.Hmm?couple of ways to look at that one. Lack of self-care would be one from a physical stance. I am addicted to cigarettes. I am ashamed to admit this addiction and feel it interferes with my walk with others and yet, I have not, as yet, been able to break free from this addiction. Used smoking to stuff feelings, so perhaps the process of this assessment and the truths God is showing me will release me from this bondage as I continue to seek the strength to speak the truth in love and not hide my feelings.I guess the other behavior I have used that is damaging to me is hiding the real me from others, the fear that if others really knew me, they wouldn't like me. I think that is why I find this forum to be such an encouragement to me, that I am pouring out myself, the good, bad and ugly and you ladies have graciously loved me in spite of it. I see God showing me how I have allowed my anxiety about this to rob me of some very good and healthy friendships within my local community.Question 8. What obstacles keep you from asking God to search you and know your heart?This one isn't an issue for me. I do ask Him to search me and know my heart, to show me what needs changing and then to give me the courage to do it. I am in awe of Him for loving me in spite of my heart and sin nature and grateful that He sees the righteousness of Christ in me, that He is willing to continue to mold and discipline me, to allow me my folly as He teaches me in truth and knowledge. LOL, I would be dishonest unless I also admitted that sometimes, I may wait a day or two to ask this, knowing sometimes with fear/anxiety that He will have something to show me that I am perhaps not ready to address. In the end though, I know He is far more faithful than I am.

1 PE 4:10-11-Regarding Spiritual GiftsHave heard many sermons and been to a couple of classes on spiritual gifts and yet, sometimes something can seem brand new. I guess I heard yesterday's message in light of what we are studying, the desire to speak the truth in love and the discernment necessary for that. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> [10] Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms. [11] If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Scope Each one should use whatever gift he has received We all receive spiritual gift(s) when we ask Christ into our life. It is important that we discover what these gifts are. Intent to serve others The sole purpose for having spiritual gifts is to serve others. God places us in a family where all are deemed worthy. He instituted unity, oneness in spirit, so that as discussed in 1 Cor. 12 we would realize how important our participation was for the good of the body. As Stormie talked about, what would happen to our body if we only prayed for the right side of it and not the left? The physical body is such a wonderful example of how all things work together for good. The things seen on the outside may get more credit, eyes, limbs, etc. but without the brain, autonomic responses, muscles, or internal organs, we would cease to function. So it is with the body of Christ and the way we each use our gifts to serve the body as a whole. We each have a vital part. Approach faithfully administering Being a good steward includes management of our gift(s) as well. The introspection that we are now doing fits in as we identify weaknesses and strengths. How do our shortcomings interfere with the administration of our spiritual gifts? Do we allow fear or our circumstances to pull us away from serving faithfully to our husbands, etc.? Would the parable of the talents apply to the spiritual gifts if we do not use them or are not good stewards of them? Matt. 24:14-30 (Just trying to stretch you here) Source God's grace in its various forms The continuous reminder that our gifts are given to us out of God's grace to us, not because of anything we have done on our own. Arrangement If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, The protocol for using our gift(s). In speaking the truth in love to our spouses, I think of 1 PE 3:15,: But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, [16] keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. The hope we have in Christ, how marriage was set up by God as the ultimate community for unity; watching our words, how we speak and recognizing that we should speak as one speaking the very words of God, may make us all stop a bit and better think through our responses to our spouse. RO 15:1 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. [2] Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. [3] For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me." [4] For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.And I love the reminder that we serve with the strength that God provides. We have touched on such issues as control and often in negative connotations. What then is the positive stance for such a gift, for I do believe that this also can be a gift from God, that He has allowed some the gift for organization, the gift where some can see a larger picture than I can and who are skilled to be able to orchestrate each of the facets so that things move smoothly. What then is God teaching the one who has this gift, the ability to see the larger picture, and yet, has placed that person in the serving position rather than the leadership position of the home or marriage? Throw out thoughts ladies! Goal [b ]so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen [/b]The ultimate purpose that we have gifts and are to use them, the opportunity to develop humility, giving credit to the One who gave the gift. I thought of Paul when he said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 2CO 6:3 We put no stumbling block in anyone's path, so that our ministry will not be discredited. [4] Rather, as servants of God we commend ourselves in every way: in great endurance; in troubles, hardships and distresses; [5] in beatings, imprisonments and riots; in hard work, sleepless nights and hunger; [6] in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love; [7] in truthful speech and in the power of God; with weapons of righteousness in the right hand and in the left; [8] through glory and dishonor, bad report and good report; genuine, yet regarded as impostors; [9] known, yet regarded as unknown; dying, and yet we live on; beaten, and yet not killed; [10] sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; poor, yet making many rich; having nothing, and yet possessing everything .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What then is your ministry? What are your spiritual gifts? How are you using your gift(s) in your marriage to serve?Anyone want to dig out their info on discovering spiritual gifts for those who aren't sure what gift or gifts they have?Father, as we continue to seek your face to remove those things that dishonor you, and to strengthen those things that You would have us develop in our character, to better represent you to our immediate and extended family, continue to break down the walls of our heart, that in full openness we may be able to learn what You would have us learn that we would become the women and wives that You desire for us to be. IJN, Amen.

WHAT ANXIETIES DO YOU HAVE ABOUT MEMORIES OF YOUR PAST. My life bc could be titled "little lost girl". Starting with the breakup of my family and several episodes of sexual abuse by a family member. I went from there to being the wild child in my teens and of course that includes alot of regrets. I share with people at church that my h and I were married in the wee hours of the morning in Las Vegas, well you'd think I committed the worst crime.....they were shocked! I am not from the ususal mold of "raised in the church". So, I am very reluctant to share much of my bc life.WHICH OF YOUR BEHAVIORS ARE MOST DAMAGING TO YOUR LIFE? I come from a long line of alcoholic's. My father and mother, grandfather and many others. I avoided alcohol like the plague until I was lost in the lonliness of betrayal. Now I battle the desire to just "mellow out". Praise God I am not an alcoholic! But, I would rather not trust in anything but Jesus. My hearts desire is to be free of any minute away from leaning on God. I make no judgement on others, for me this is something which needs to go altogether.In regards to the last question, I have no obstacles keeping me from asking God anything. My obstacle would be that I don't trust God to answer some things and I jump in and try to answer them myself. God is showing me there is only one Captain of this trip and it is Him.I have walked with God for over 30 years and I have come a long way, as Gloria Gaither says, "I may not be where I should be, but thank God I am not where I was". God is so gracious, I want that character trait for myself and as I look at others as well.Blessings, Taj------------------ "Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Thanks so much for sharing Taj. I feel so blessed to know you! You are a wonderful example of being the overcomer that Christ talks about! My accountability partner is a recovered WS. Her husband followed Harley's principles long ago. I am always amazed at how they share about this time in their life so openly. They feel it is a testimony to how God can use things for His glory.It is always a risk to be vulnerable. Thank you for taking it! Hugs!

oops[This message has been edited by SueB (edited January 08, 2001).]

Question 6. What anxieties do you have about memories of your past? What anxieties don't I have. wow, this is a hard one for me. even before my mom told me that I was not wanted I have always had the feeling that I was not lovable, between my mom always finding someone else to take care of us and having to threaten my dad in order for him to take over custody of us I have always felt it was my own fault that no one wanted us. between the ages of 10 and 15 I was sexually abused numerous times by a family member and when i did tell no one believed me so this just continued. knowing that no one would ever believe me my brother and sisters did numerous bad things and blame it on me for the soul purpose of getting me in trouble. as I reached Jr high and high school I withdrew into myself and would do anything for anybody if they would like me for it. of course now that I am an adult I see they were just using me. and I found that when my marriage fell apart my first thought was my marriage fell apart because I was so unloveable as a result of this feeling I have also treated myself as though I should not be loved and ignored myself. I have been in physical pain for many years and always ignored it saying to my self I was just parinoid or melodramatic.I have been working on my self and am getting back to being a healthy person physically and mental. I am undergoing therapy and now know that God loves me and that is all that matters. since God loves me i find it easier to love myself. and physically I found out that I am not paraniod or melodramatic. I now know i suffered from endometriosis, (which I have had sergically removed.) and I also suffer from a severe case of TMJ which we are working on correcting. I find as I am physically fixing myself my self image has also been impoving.Question 7. Which of your behaviors are most damaging to your life? Explain.I think my most damaging behaviors have been in just not caring for myself as i should have, i have read that a woman cannot take care of her family the way she should it she is not caring for herself. I neglected myself and my family has indeed fallen apart.I wouldn't take care of myself because of my belief i was unloveable. this has kept poeple at bay not becuase I was unloveable but bacause i just didn't take care of myself.Question 8. What obstacles keep you from asking God to search you and know your heart?my main obstacle that keeps me from asking God to search me and show me my heart is fear. I am scared to death I either won't like it or won't be able to handle it. now that God is working in and pealing back the layers i find yes some layers are very painful as they are pulled away. but I have learned to take it one day at a time and lean on God, knowing He is always their even when I don't feel it. ok, i'm done with my book, I must admit I find this very therapudic to wright down my thoughts and feelings, because in wrighting this to you all it forces me to see things as they are. Thankyou for the kind "ears" Daniel 2:22 He reveals deep and hidden things; he knows what lies in darkness, and light dwells with him. ------------------ Irene

Resentments Question 9. List your major resentments. How is it interfering with your life?Now, doesn't that just sound like some easy task? Resentments are the number one offender and often the major cause of spiritual disease. By identifying our resentments, we can see how they have affected our self-esteem, our well-being and our personal relationships. Holding onto resentment causes stress, anxiety, and uncontrollable feelings of anger. If these are not resolved, serious emotional and physical consequences will develop. If we allow our resentments to prevail, serious depression can develop and ultimately destroy our lives. No doubt others have harmed us and we have a legitimate right to feel resentful. Having resentment though, doesn't punish anyone but ourselves. We can't hold resentments and find healing at the same time. It is best released by asking God for the strength to forgive the offender. Learning to deal with resentments in a healthy way is an important part of our recovery process.When we resent, we may be:Feeling injured, Feeling left out, Experiencing low self-worth, Feeling violated, Retaliating, Angry or Bitter. Listing resentments are best helpful for us when we identify how we are impacted, such as the example below: Example I resent my boss because he doesn't care to hear my explanation of why I am depressed. This affects my self-esteem. This activates unexpressed anger. This makes me feel even more depressed.Following a format as above helps to understand the relationship between feelings and the impact on us. I have found it fairly easy to make that list of resentments, but understanding how I am affected, what it activates for me, and what other feelings come into play in light of it, very difficult. I have added a list of feeling words for you to cut and paste to print out so that as you make your list, you can become increasingly aware of how multi-faceted you are. Remember, God made our feelings, let's not deny them.Feeling Wordsangry enraged loved exhausted happy sorry generous heavenly sympathetic grief stricken afraid bewildered refreshed clumsy immature supernatural used stupid dull understanding inspired discouraged humble frigid abused pensive blah romantic taut foolish low edgy giddy unglued elated pooped groovy privileged distant submissive quiet cooperative uncertain seductive safe panicky confident merry rejected paralyzed stretched affectionate proud enthusiastic burdened tearful confused important bored sexual dishonest sweaty excited spineless belligerent defiant tickled-to-death bugged magnanimous ugly heroic virile wimpy hopeless deferential bothered trapped miserable apprehensive satisfied seething blocked thankful compassionate at ease irritated frustrated loving lively joyful sorrowful grateful humiliated relaxed comfortable scared frisky repressed awkward infantile hot glad bright explosive forgiving adequate encouraged cool warm sunshiny powerless bubbly carefree grumpy comforted icky zingy timid disorganized airy jealous frightened warm-hearted close dependent evasive contemptuous aggressive repulsive fearful grief-stricken tolerant confused energetic shut-out bushed empathetic alarmed trusting weepy resentful respected impatient frustrated silly honest dead-eyed breathless terrified bellicose disgusted depressed dutiful funny peeved dreamy exuberant ebullient tense vacant mixed-up conflicted dismayed worried content furious puzzled relieved down-in-the-dumps annoyed anxious tired vigorous sad greedy thankful compassionate at ease uneasy confused relieved hopeful aware unnatural torrid dumb brilliant considerate forgiven inadequate courageous cold uncomfortable ecstatic powerful tender floating jolly high cuddly playful uptight lost disappointed delighted smiley quivery dominant talkative embarrassed assertive self-assured open guilty calm rejuvenated starry-eyed immobilized whiny strong lonely threatened beaten hurt envious helpless played-out caring two-faced nauseated itchy gutless insecure determined surprised sharp stagnated hilarious hesitant committed wishy-washy horrified independent appealing disturbed petrified disappointed overjoyed bitter mad pissed hopeful uneasy aware On a scale of 1-10, how much does resentment negatively affect your life, with zero having the lowest impact and 10 having the greatest negative impact? Where are you today?This truly is a hard one ladies. I am having the most difficulty identifying what it affects. Is my role as a wife, my willingness to be obedient, my ability to submit actually watered down ways to say self-worth or self-esteem? Is intimacy or lack of a useable word for what it affects? Let me know your thoughts on this please. This one is going to take a bit of work I think. Our honesty and tendency to minimize or deny is really going to be challenged!Father God, I really need your help here to open up my heart to truly idenify the things that this assignment challenges us to do. I do want to be honest Father, I do not want to misplace or minimize the affects of resentment. I know Father, that in orfer to remove it with your help, we have to identify it, to understand how we are allowing it to impact our lives and our walk with you. Help us all Father, give us Your strength to be honest and truthful. IJN, Amen.[This message has been edited by SueB (edited January 09, 2001).]

Soke with my accountability partner in regards to my question about how affect fits in. We are to identify how the resentment interferes with our life. So, some examples might be that it affects my sexuality, my relationship with friends, available funds for my own financial needs/ or family needs, my peace of mind, my communication with my H, my attitude around my H, my ability to speak intelligently....well, hope that helps you as much as it help clarify things for me, Happy writing!

Question #2. Describe an action or behavior that reminds you that you have a deceitful heart. I resist dealing with all kinds of things in a timely way, secretly hoping that no one will notice that I am inadequate. Question #3- Explain ways in which denial causes you pain or embarrassment. End up having to apologize and make up for negligent errors. Everything gets found out sooner or later. The more deceit precedes D day, the worse it looks. Question #4- In what areas of your life do you suspect that denial is most active? Money.And denial is just another word for lack of faith. Do I not believe God's word that he will bless me for my obedience? Question 6. What anxieties do you have about memories of your past? None. Question 7. Which of your behaviors are most damaging to your life? Explain.Procrastination and denial. Playing cover-up by lack of organization.Question 8. What obstacles keep you from asking God to search you and know your heart?Forget to. Preoccupation with other stuff.

One of the first things God dealt with me about 5+ years ago was resentment. It seemed to be the first thing He worked on with me.I sat in front of my computer one morning and typed up every resentment I could think of. It was a very long list having accumulated from over 18 years at the time. After I finished typing them out, I prayed over each one of them. I then imagined a big picnic blanket and I layed them all on it. Then in my mind I had Jesus come and bundle them up and carry them off. Afterwards I took the physical list I had printed off and tore it up and literally burned it. They were gone. I felt an amazing burden liften off me. To this day I can not remember any of those resentments. Now that is what I call taking them away. It really was amazing. Since that time I have had to periodically do this, but it never gets anywhere near as burdensome as it was in 1995. Try it , I hope it will work for you too.

It is pretty interesting as I continue to ask God to soften my heart, to take the hardness away. It is as though there is a crack in the dam, tear seepage that I cannot stop. Very hard for me to just cry in front of my H without an explanation. I guess too, the observation about the emeshment that occurs in this relationship is very interesting to me. If I begin to feel emotions, H either gets mad or gets sick, wanting any focus back on himself. In the past I have responded to this, not today. Just don't have it in me.I guess too, as I have been talking this through with the Lord this morning, we singularly ask the Lord to change us and want some miracle change, without the hard work or pain involved in removing the dross from our lives. Like you HW, I would say that most of my resentments at this point are in the here and now, that I have been healed from the past hurts. What I am realizing though is that my same get stuck place continues to be in verbalizing my stand with full confidence. I continue to experience fear in regards to standing up for myself. So perhaps that is why the Lord allowed me to come 3000 miles away from family and friends, so that I would have no excuses to deviate from this task, that I would have to look at myself and not put myself on the shelf in considering others more important, recognizing that I have not looked to my own interests at all, relinquishing the responsibility for self as Paul taught in Phil 2. to not only look out for your own interests, but consider others more important. I haven't considered myself important at all. I have abdicated the part about looking out for myself in that ratio. If I don't consider myself important, then how can others consider me important? I think of the times when my children went through their rebellious stages and how I was disappointed at some of the choices they made, but also about how much I loved those guys in spite of those choices and realize that is how God is with me only more so. PS 139:1 O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. PS 139:2 You know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts from afar. PS 139:3 You discern my going out and my lying down; you are familiar with all my ways. PS 139:4 Before a word is on my tongue you know it completely, O LORD. PS 139:5 You hem me in--behind and before; you have laid your hand upon meNothing is hidden from Him, so why do I hide it from myself? I think it has to do with knowing that God wants us to get rid of all bitterness and malice, resentments, so I changed the name of them, I minimized them, I rationalized them or made excuses for them, so that they really weren't resentments at all? after all God allows righteous anger, right? Am I not fighting a spiritual battle here? What fools we are when we think we are wise. We are not fooling Him for He can see into our hearts. We can go nowhere and hide the truth of it from Him. PS 139:7 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? PS 139:8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there; if I make my bed in the depths,* you are there. PS 139:9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, PS 139:10 even there your hand will guide me, your right hand will hold me fast. PS 139:11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me," PS 139:12 even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you.From what stance then does our serving do? We busy ourselves in serving, we rationalize that our spouses are high maintenance, to quote a good friend of mine, that, to just keep abreast of them and their moods, needs etc. is a full time job. Hmmm?how good is my service if I am being so dishonest about myself and what is going on with me? I am thinking I am using this as another excuse to avoid working on me. Not enough hours in the day and I am beginning to realize that everyone is getting shortchanged. LK 10:38 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. [39] She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet listening to what he said. [40] But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "Lord, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!" LK 10:41 "Martha, Martha," the Lord answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, [42] but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."Martha missed the mark, what am I missing? What are you missing? When you listen to the silence, What do you hear? Do you hear the gentle breathing, Of the One who is so near?Do you sense His heartbeat, The caress upon your face? Do you recognize that this moment You are the holy place?You are the temple, Do you hear His sweet voice? You are the temple, Hallelujah, rejoice!

I need to go back to questions #4 and#6 this morning......another dream! Ugh!!! I am so sick of reliving my past in my sleep. I know it was instigated by the fact that I started my new job yesterday. My h had to go for a Dr. appointment which involved a trip out of town, one which I would of accompanied him on. SueB, I am not standing guard and the same exact dream is popping up. I woke up full of anxiety about the job and yesterday I felt on top of the world.So, I guess I am still denying the grip the other woman has on my future and definately full of anxiety over the new job and time away from home. I told my h that I needed truthfulness if anything like the past occurred again. Of course he said, "Yes"! What else would he say.I asked God this morning to once and for all take this horrid dream away. I need to trust Him to do that.One other thing that could be triggering this dream again is that over the holidays the "phone calls" started again. Many hang ups and one peculiar on asking for my daughter who hasn't lived with us for many, many years. When I said she wasn't here, the caller just said ok instead of inquiring how to get ahold of her. It was a planned call to find out if the caller had the right home. The only good thing that came out of the calls was that my h finally believed it was her. Now mind you for the newbies, I am beginning year 5 of recovery......thats a long time for the ow to continue her evil.Would appreciate any responses to this repeat visit of dreams and ow.Taj

A lot of times we work out our anxieties through our dreams that we have difficulty admitting when we are awake. Seems our subconscious is more honest than we are. Sometimes it is the dream that allows us to admit the fear that we have denied when we are awake and it when we admit the fear while awake that the dreams stop. It is when we are awake that we can in prayer ask what exactly we are afraid of, fear that A would rekindle, fear of losing control, fears might even be related to the new activity in our life, i.e. job, are we good enough, do we have what it takes, and present itself in another scenario where we felt afraid and out of control. Any activity which puts us in low man on the totem pole status after havng been on the top previously would throw us into the same anxiety mode. It is important to investigate where the fear comes from and to put the word of truth across it. Q. Are you good enough? A. Of course you are, that is why you were hired for the job.... Q. Has H taken the steps to rebuild your marriage? A. Yes, including going before the church in humility, willing to accept all consequences for his behavior. Willing to stand next to you in a new ministry opportunity...willing to...you name all the evidence before you...After that, you battle the fear with the truth. You confess unbelief or sin and know that you have been forgiven and wiped clean. You bring that truth to any other dream rebuking the lie before you that wants to tear apart what God has put together. You are building a new you, ridding yourself of the dross from the past, to wholeness, changing into the wife and woman God has designed for you to be, in confidence from inside. So go back to questions 4 & 6 if you must. Root out what needs to be rooted out to allow more dirt to be available for the roots of love to grow. Hugs Taj!

Whew! I can do that, gardenings my hobby! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Love to get my hands in the dirt. LOLAll kidding aside, the frustration I felt this morning is gone and I am just brain dead from reading all the orientation info from the new job. I will work on ques. 4&6 tonight and try and deal with this stuff once and for all.Thanks again SueB

Just don't be so hard on yourself as to think that once and for all will occur tonight. Wouldn't surprise me if you get a large chunk of it, but as I am finding, it still sneaks up in other areas that I hadn't considered. Look for the patterns Taj, that is what I am finding most interesting. How some of my responses today are similar to what they were as a child. How we can now give ourselves permission to be the adult and not respond as we did when we were children.Happy digging you little gardener!

Hi ladies.... I haven't been on much lately and apologize for not keeping up with the study. Hopefully things will be better next week. My dad is very ill, and I am flying to FL to see him in the morning. The doctors said there is nothing they can do at this point. But I will keep praying. On top of this, my husband is in another downward spiral with his drinking. At this point I just keep asking the Lord to help me get through it.Taj, I was wondering.... about your dreams, do they wake you up around the hours between 12 - 3 AM? The reason I am asking is that Neil Anderson wrote an article (I think) about how Satan uses his demons to attack people through dreams, and this activity increases between 12 - 3 AM. Neil's advice is to rebuke the enemy and praise God and pray for "sweet sleep". If I can find the article I will post the link. A few months after my H came back I had several bad dreams about him and an OW, and weird numbers started showing up on caller ID..... I prayed Luke 8:17 "For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light" personalizing it for my situation. As nothing was revealed, I attribute those dreams to the enemy trying to discourage me. Lord, I lift up Taj to you, help her Lord to discern the truth about the dreams she has had. Father, bring to Taj Your peace that passes all understanding. Help her Lord to be a woman of strength in her marriage and in her job. Lord, I thank You for the love and protection over Taj and her husband. Praises and glory to You Lord. Father, send the enemy as far away from Taj as east is from west. Help her Lord, to stand firm with all the armor of God on, rebuking the enemy, repelling his attacks. Lord, Your glorious power is overwhelming. In Jesus' name, AMEN

Hello ladies. I found POPW yesterday at the library. I've read through the first three pages of this thread, and I'll try to catch up with y'all. Still thinking of changing my name to slowpoke. I have some energy today. I'm going to get some fresh air and logon again after dark.

How are you all doing on your questions? Ready for the next piece? Had a lot more resentment in there than I had realized. Was kind of eye opening. Got an email from my Ex regarding our son and working out schedules to be with our son during his treatment.Of course my H is amazed that we don't hate each other like he does his ex. My ex has remarried and I am happy for him. He was one of my best friends in high school and I should have never married him. Ruined a good friendship for a long time. Had I known about marriagebuilders back then, perhaps...but it doesn't do any good to go there. I think that loving my first H interferred with any relationship and even now that he is dead, I see how his memory still sneaks up and throws me for a loop.Had a tough weekend. hope you are all doing better.

Taj, Been thinking about you a lot the past couple of days, so what is going on? I find that when the Spirit lays somebody on my heart to pray for, there is a reason. How's the job, the anxiety, the dreams? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>JAS 1:19 My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, [20] for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. [21] Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Question 10. In light of the challenge of listing resentments and challenging those areas in your life where denial has remained present, identify those areas where you became angry because of your resentments. How did you chose to act out that anger? I think the biggest realization for me was seeing the number of times I removed myself emotionally, withdrew from my H, hardened my heart and allowed no room for him in there. Granted, part of that was for protection as well against his own inappropriate use of anger, but I am still accountable for my behavior, my part in the interaction. That hard heart disables us, increases our inability to express or to feel. As I think about my codependency training years ago and the purpose of anger, to either control or to cover a hurt, I see this in action in my own life so vividly today. That tendency to LB in response to the hurt in anger in attempts to throw off the scent of the hound dogs who would have a field day if I were that vulnerable as to express hurt... to desire to be so self-controlled as to not let anyone know that I have allowed them the power to hurt me. My accountabililty partners says in those instances we need to verbalize in this way. "This hurts. I need to think about this." so that we do not respond in retaliation, so that we can take a step back and assess the truth of the matter, identify those lies that the evil one loves to toss in and decide if the present situation is a place where a boundary belongs, etc. Then we can respond in love.FEARThe second most destructive offender in our lives, the one emotion that we most strongly feel when we begin to look at ourselves. When present, our need to deny, ignore and avoid reality is increased. Our unrealistic perspective becomes greatly exaggerated and intensifies our emotional response, causing us tremendous pain. Fear attacks us physically and cause feelings that range from apprehension to panic. When fear is present, we may become nervous, nauseated or disoriented. (CONFUSION) When we inventory our fears, we may discover that they are a direct result of our inability to make decisions. Or we may blieve that if we could make the right decision, things would be different. And some of themost troubling decisions directly relate to the boundaries we know must be established. (OUCH) Fear is the first response we feel when we aren't in control of our lives. It is the opposite of faith. When we fear, we loss of control and we doubt God's ability to help.The above section, while somewhat paraphrased is pretty much verbatim from the A Spiritual Journey book, page 73. It just hit me as already so clearly defined and I couldn't improve on it much.Question 11. List your major fear. How is it interferring with your life? Fear is the underlying cause of many forms of spiritual disease, the first response we feel when we aren't in control of a situation. A wide range of mental and phusical ills are frequently the direct result of this unwholesome emotion. Fear often prevents us from seeing options to effectively resolve the issues causing the fear. Leaning to acknowledge fear in a healthy way in an important part of changing ourselves into godly women, to be in recovery, the healing of our hearts, the taking the log out of our own eyes.Some examples where fear may display itself: When we fear, we may be: Feeling threatened, Resisting change, Experiencing rejection, Fighting for survival, Facing our mortality or Experiencing loss.In the same format as above in listing your resentments identify those areas of your life where fear has a foothold. Example below:I fear my spouse becauseI feel I am never able to please him/her. This affectsmy self-esteem and sexuality. This activate my fear of abandonment. This maeks me feel worthless and angry.Go one step further and identify on a scale of 1-10, how much does fear negatively affect your life. 1 on the scale, 10 indicates that it has high nefative effect. Where are you today?2TI 2:7 For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.Father, you tell us that the only thing we should fear is you. You have given us the gifts of power, love and self-discipline and the authority over all the power of the enemy. Guide us in this task to root out fears and to call them what they are. Father, change us, into the women you would have us become, that we would become emboldened for your glory, that we might be useful vessels for your purpose. Father, enlighten us one step at a time and let this step today be to clear the path to see how fear has a stranglehold on us. Let this light remove all shadows of doubt and denial. Let it not call it by any other name. Give us courage to take this step Father, IJN, Amen.

Question 10. In light of the challenge of listing resentments and challenging those areas in your life where denial has remained present, identify those areas where you became angry because of your resentments. How did you chose to act out that anger? I have in some ways not allowed God to touch areas of my life because I do not trust Him with my future. I'm not sure His plan is in alignment with mine, so I'm not sure I trust Him. No, I am not blinded to the glaring mistakes in this line of approach/thinking! I have relied on other people sometimes. Recently one of the people I've relied upon and had a friendship with for 10 years I broke with. Because of this God is able to fill these spaces in my life and I am also able to hurt through them and cry to Him versus supposedly taking care of my needs on my own. Breaking with this person is allowing my life a whole nother course and is demanding my dependence upon our Father and allowing Him to work on areas of me that I had previously kept from His touch!Reaction: By rebelling. By withdrawing subtilely. By reacting and responding to my fear. Letting fear be my guide.FEARThe second most destructive offender in our lives, the one emotion that we most strongly feel when we begin to look at ourselves. Our unrealistic perspective becomes greatly exaggerated and intensifies our emotional response, causing us tremendous pain. When fear is present, we may become nervous or disoriented. (CONFUSION) Fear is the first response we feel when we aren't in control of our lives. It is the opposite of faith. When we fear, we loss of control and we doubt God's ability to help.I really thought that was so well-said! unrealistic perspective and exaggeration is very true. Fear generally give me a vast overreaction to the situation at hand and is a very overrated picture. Question 11. List your major fear. How is it interferring with your life? I fear trusting God with my future and today becauseI am not in control then and "rely" with less "doing" on my part--ugh! This affectsI don't know...what wouldn't it affect. It doesn't cripple my life, but it doesn't allow me to run across the hills and meadows (reference to "Hinds Feet on High Places") This activate my fear of abandonment, being alone, having noone, not having much that I hold dear. This makes me feel angry, frustrated, disappointed...(over and over)Go one step further and identify on a scale of 1-10, how much does fear negatively affect your life. 1 on the scale, 10 indicates that it has high negative effect. Where are you today?Well, I don't know about the scale, but I know fear has a stronghold in my life. I'm much more motivated by consequences than other things. I lead a good life, but spiritually my lack of faith and trust (as so awesomely evidenced above!!!! YIKES!)certainly are preventing me from living a carefree life with God and others. Right now I'm living with my fears and not running from them. So this is progress. It's a moment by moment and day by day thing though. It's not something I can say I've overcome and it's something that will probably always be a struggle for me. I'm learning and growing a lot and I'm not all immature, but evidenced from my responses I have some real serious things to deal with or rather allow God to deal with in my life and submit to Him on!HM

SueB,I have been "knee-deep" in orientation for my new job. All is well! The dreams stopped, just had one more after I posted. I have not been sleeping well so guess that is why I haven't been dreaming. It has been so busy around here, my h and I have been "passsing in the doorway".When I get this busy I fear that I am ignoring my h's needs. The truth be told, I am! How does one do both? His needs truly have to slide for awhile. BUT, you know what, so are mine! And that is a real eye-opener!Last wknd we had a seminar on prayer at church and I realized that God is wanting me to get my eyes off of self and really back onto him. I have been so self-centered for so long. Self-centered in the sense of my insecurities in regard to my H. A healthy marriage leaves room for other things then the relationship, that is where I hope I am headed. I can't give my every waking hour to my marriage. There has to be balance to life and I hope I am headed toward that with the start of this new job.So, back to my fear. It is not having control over my marriage. You know what, God wants it that way.Blessings, Taj

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Last wknd we had a seminar on prayer at church and I realized that God is wanting me to get my eyes off of self and really back onto him. I have been so self-centered for so long. Self-centered in the sense of my insecurities in regard to my H. A healthy marriage leaves room for other things then the relationship, that is where I hope I am headed. I can't give my every waking hour to my marriage. There has to be balance to life and I hope I am headed toward that with the start of this new job.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Isn't that an amazing pill to swallow?? You still can leave love/thinking of you/lusting for you notes around for him to find in your absense to let him know that you also are affected by the busyness of your schedules, but just think, with each of you doing something else and then being able to share it with one another, adds fiber, so to speak, to the relationship when you do come together.My dear H is experiencing tremendous anxiety right now (now isn't that a sweet way of saying he is being a real jerk-LOL) because I am not filling every waking moment of his life so that he doesn't have to deal with his stuff. I can't begin to tell you how thankful I am for these new gals who are joining us in this forum for helping me to keep focused on what my goal is and for encouraging me to recheck my steps to see if I am still on target for doing what I am doing. God is working on changing me-halleluah! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>So, back to my fear. It is not having control over my marriage. You know what, God wants it that way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Boy, can I relate!!! The main pattern I am trying to break here right now is that when we have a disagreement, H institutes the silent treatment until he feels I have been punished enough or gets horney, whichever comes first, and then he will be kind enough until he gets what he wants and slides back into jerk mode. The disagreement is never brought back up, never resolved, never worked through and then he wonders why we keep ending back up on the same square we were on before. SO... God is challenging me to set a boundary to no longer allow this behavior to occur, that I have a responsibility on my part to not let this go anymore, no matter how my H responds, for we are not to let the sun go down on our anger, etc. My job then, when my H stops the silent treatment, is to calmly and respectuflly ask if he is now ready to continue the discussion that we were previously on... to no longer let the resentments and problems build. Boy o howdy! What a circle it is...back to the silent treatment immediately, the yelling, which immediately stops the discussion as I am no longer remaining in the room where yelling occurs, etc. Trying to implement the "This hurts, let me think about this" policy before opening my mouth and sticking my foot in. Trying to see things from his perspective (tell me more about this, how does that play out from your perspective, etc) rather than responding defensively. Trying to immediately apologize if I can see where I have erred and then restate more clearly my position.For example, I have become very aware recently that I fear my H's response (anger) if I say something, so rather than answer a question of his directly, I have, in the past, tried to soften his wrath by going around the answer in perhaps a less than honest way. In my mind, I thought I was providing room for discussion, compromise, etc. but in the end I realize that I was participating in the circle thing, in other words falling right into the dysfunctional trap that he has played out for his entire life with relationships. So now, I am taking the fearful step of admitting to myself that this scares me, but I need to answer honestly with short answers, yes, no, etc. not make a lengthy discussion to justify my answer, recognizing that I do not need my H's approval for my answer, but I do owe him honesty even if he doesn't like the answer. Ugh! Such work!Those two steps are really keeping me busy, but you know, I am having more peace with each answer, with each step of obedience to God. I am growing!Glad to hear from you Taj! So that is my greatest fear I think. Someone else's response to my response. Failure to recognize that I am fearfully and wonderfully made and that I have much to offer in spite of what others' say. Sounds corny I guess, but I have to learn more about being selfish, but it really isn't selfishness but more about acknowledging my worth in God's eyes, and acting upon that. Recognizing that I have value and that God is my judge and not others.How are the rest of you doing? How can we pray for you through this journey time of vulnerability before the Lord in allowing Him to expose your weaknesses according to His light so that we can be changed to be the wives and women God wants us to be?

Hello, I read on a paper for finding God's will for our life that God answers our prayers in different ways, we need to listen to his voice, circumstances, others, our heart. It states that God will answer you if you listen for him. Well I think he answered my prayers on what to do with my situation with my husband. I am still confused thou. The circumstances are my husbands drinking, verbal abuse, physical abuse (little) and others (one of my friends, couselors)telling me that it is time to move on. So if this is God's choice for me, why am I not going? Why do I feel that I have to stay?

Lindykay,Remember that the evil one also is an imposter and his voice can sound as sweet as the Lords at times. God hates divorce. The purpose of a separtion is to protect the love that you have remaining for your spouse, to allow some time for natural and logical consequences to occur, so that your spouse will experience what life would be like without you, so that God will work in his life and heart.Friends and counselors may mean well, but if their encouragement for separation is anything less than for you to be strengthened so that you can continue fighting for your marriage, or that you have temporary safety if you feel unsafe, i.e. physical abuse, then perhaps you aren't going for the right reasons.You also mentioned something in your first post that if you leave then you lose the physical comfort that your husband provides, meaning that if you leave, then you would have to go get a job, find daycare for your chidren, a place to live, assume responsibilities that you currently do not have to accept. etc. I don't know what skills you have developed for the job market, but often if we haven't had the opportunity to develop or gain academic skills, then the job we would be qualified for might not provide enough money to live on, much less live on comfortably. So I would guess fear and assuming responsibility for yourself and children might also hold you back.There does come a point I think, where you really do have to look at your behavior and make some decisions and take some action. For example, we have suggested that you begin reading the boundaries thread and start answering some of the questions posted from the study guide. In the POPW thread, there also are some challenging questions for you to think and pray about and require some response from you. If you do not assume responsibility to take control in those areas that you do have control in and can do something about, learning to be honest with yourself, learning where you are fearful, resentful etc. and make a conscious effort to change yourself as God leads you, then I suspect you are then falling into the sin of being the constant drip of the nagging wife that Proverbs talks about and the very support you desire will fade away as others turn their ears from you when they see that you only want to complain and don't really want solutions to the problems before you.Have you ever asked Christ to be the Lord of your life? Asked Him to come into your heart and make you a new creation, to live and dwell with you and to teach you His ways? Have you realized that you are alienated from God for all eternity and that it is only through the gift of God, Christ dying on the cross that you would have access to the throne, that God does not hear your prayers otherwise? That God promises when we ask Jesus to come into our lives, that He will throw away our sins and make us clean and pure and holy and that He will never leave or forsake us?That when we do ask Christ into our lives, then these things are true about you:Who Lindykay is in Christ-Lindykay is a child of the 'Everlasting Father'!John 1:12 Lindykay is God's childJohn 15:15 Lindykay is Christ's friendRomans 5:1 Lindykay is justified in Christ1 Corinthians 5:17 Lindykay is united with the Lord and one with him in spirit1 Corinthians 6:20 Lindykay has been bought with a price, Lindykay belongs to God1 Corinthians 12:27 Lindykay is a member of Christ's bodyEphesians 1:1 Lindykay is a saintEphesians 1:5 Lindykay has been adopted as God's childEphesians 2:19 Lindykay has direct access to God through the Holy SpiritColossians 1:14 Lindykay has been redeemed and forgiven of all my sinsColossians 2:10 Lindykay is complete in ChristLindykay is Secure in ChristRomans 6:1,2 Lindykay is free forever from condemnationRomans 3:28 Lindykay is assured that all things work together for goodRomans 8:33,34 Lindykay cannot be separated from the love of God2 Corinthians 1:21 Lindykay has been established, annointed and sealed by GodColossians 3:3 Lindykay is hidden with Christ in GodPhilippians 1:6 Lindykay is confident that the good work God has begun in her will be perfectedPhilippians 3:20 Lindykay is a citizen of heaven2 Timothy 1:7 Lindykay has not been given a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind Hebrews 1:16 Lindykay can find grace and mercy in time of need1 John 5:16 Lindykay is born of God and the evil one cannot touch herLindykay is Significant in ChristMatthew 5:13,14 Lindykay is the salt and light of the earthJohn 15:1,5 Lindykay is a branch of the true vine, a channel of His lifeJohn 15:16 Lindykay has been chosen and appointed to bear fruitActs 1:8 Lindykay is a personal witness of Christ1Corinthians 3:16 Lindykay is Gods temple2 Corinthians 5: 1720 Lindykay is a minister of reconciliation2 Corinthians 6:1 Lindykay is Gods coworkerEphesians 2:6 Lindykay is seated with Christ in the heavenly realmsEphesians 2:10 Lindykay is Gods workmanshipEphesians 3:12 Lindykay can approach God with freedom and confidencePhillipians 4:13 Lindykay can do all thing through Christ who strengthens hertaken from 'Living Free in Christ', by Neil AndersonAll of these things are true of you Lindykay if you have asked Christ into your life. If you already have asked Christ into your life, then you need to read and reread these truths until you believe them. If you have not asked Christ into your life, then perhaps today will be a new day for you and today will be the day you ask Christ into your life. It doesn't have to be some fancy prayer, just a heartfelt one. Something like I know that I am a sinner Lord and separated from you. But I also know that you allowed Jesus to be the bridge so that we would not be lost. Jesus, come into my heart and make me clean. Teach me and make me whole. In Jesus Name, Amen.

Dear LindyKay, I read your post and felt I should share with you a little. I have been married to my husband for 16 years. He is an alcoholic, still drinking. He has been a heavy drinker throughout our marriage, and along with that drinking comes the verbal, emotional and mental abuse, as well as physical abuse and adultery. I won't go into details so as to not shame my husband, but will say that things got so bad between us I would cry out to God why are you letting him get away with this??? To make a very long story short, about 2 yrs ago my husband was drinking himself into oblivion every night, committing adultery, and coming home angry and being abusive. He was arrested for domestic violence. The Lord had all under His control though, and used what Satan intended for evil for His good and glory. Before my husband came home, I was given advice from many people who told me to basically get rid of the bum. But that small, still voice in my heart kept saying, "forgive, obey My word, honor the covenant of marriage, Trust Me". My husband came back and I found the Power of a Praying Wife, and it dramatically changed my life.LindyKay, I was a contentious wife. No amount of yelling, belittling him for his drunkenness, or calling him a drunk did a bit of good. What did help was prayer. Lots of prayer. Our marriage went from one where my husband constantly said he wanted a divorce, couldn't stand me, hated me, etc... to one where we love each other, and are committed. No person could do this, it was the hand of God. My husband is not a born-again Christian, however he is being greatly convicted by the Holy Spirit. There is tremendous power in prayer, and the Lord is faithful to fulfill His word. SueB's advice to you is wonderful. Don't listen to the lies of the enemy. Ask God to confirm His word to you and He will. Above all, examine your relationship with the Lord, and stay in prayer. The Lord will restore to his faithful servants "all that the locusts have eaten". Don't despair LindyKay, there is Hope in our Lord Jesus Christ. He loves you so very, very much. Let Him help you. Look into God's Word for your answers. God bless you LindyKay.[This message has been edited by Alcoholic's Wife (edited January 20, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>"When God speaks, some of us fail so to live as to understand the message that comes from eternity. I know some people say, 'Well, how can I so conduct my life as to be responsive to the messages from the unseen world?'"There is an old illustration, a high school illustration, that bears on this subject. We may take a rod of soft iron, and place it with some iron filings, without apparently causing any change; the rod is not magnetic; but if we wrap that rod of iron with a wire carrying an electric current, it becomes a magnet. Though the rod has not changed, in shape and width and length, it has undergone a deep change. It has become changed so that it attracts iron filings or whatever else is subject to magnetic action. Just so, if we, men and women, could wrap ourselves in obedience to God's law, live as we should live, a wonderful change is effected in us, and we, too, can then hear the messages of the unseen world."John A. Widtsoe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Question 12. What fears surface when you realize God knows all your faults?Facing our resentments and fear requires a great deal of courage. Our past tendency has been to shut down our feelings. In beginning to explore other areas of our life that we may have never explored before, it is important to realize that God is with us and will help us every step of the way. With God's help and understanding, the pain will diminish. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> 2CO 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test? [6] And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In the work you have done so far, have you discovered anything for which you need to ask your H to forgive you? Ask God to show you if there is anything for which you need to repent (attitude, an action, area of neglect, etc.) As he reveals it, write it down, and then write a prayer asking God to give you the courage, strength and humility to ask your H for forgiveness and to communicate a your love and a desire to change. POPW-Study guide, p.16<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It amazes me how well these two books seem to enhance one another. I just got through sharing with you in the fear dept. about how God has made me aware of how I dance around answers in fear of H response and how that sin really continues the dysfunction in the relationship. Of how God is strengthening me to go back to my husband, admit my dance and the reason why and then to restate my answer in a shorter, clearer form. I am amzed though that nearly each time my H speaks with me I experience this same desire for avoidance and I am so grateful to the Spirit for continually reminding me to stop and begin again.Question 13. In what ways do you know that you have faith in Christ?This girl has been running from her feelings for so long that it is only by the grace of God that I am here today. I really do cling to 2Cor. 4:18, "So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal", knowing that I don't have the birdseye view of my life. It has been literally taking those baby steps of faith, going forward even though I may fear, that gives me courage to take the next one. If there was no faith, if there was no Christ, I would have been doomed long ago, for my ways (avoiding pain) are not the best ways.Character traits assessments next....

Karenna, What a wonderful example! God is the electric charge in us. Being wrapped in His love enables that obedience for change. Such a great word picture! Thanks for sharing!

FEAR AND FAITH........Those questions go hand in hand for me. I know my faults are blatant before a Holy God. I also know that within me IS NOT the power to change or overcome them. So, as I lay face down before a Holy God who sees everything, I also know that He is the same God who wants me to be holy like Him. Scriptures says, "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him." [Eph. 1:4] It also says, in me is "no good thing". I can reconcile that because I know that God is doing a work in my life to bring me to holiness. My only fear should be a insensitive spirit, one which does not respond to the conviction of the Holy Spirit.Now all of that said, I am not intending to infer that I don't have any responsibility. I do, for the light that God has already given. So, I seek God to reveal His truth to me and to do a work of holiness in my life. I want Him to shine His light in every nook and cranny.......then clean house!I know after alot of years walking with God that this is a process. I think we would all turn into a puddle on the ground if He revealed to us all of our faults at once. He is truly a God of mercy and grace. I am on a journey like "the Pilgrim" and like him I trust the Lord God for the progress.------------------ "Perfect love casts out fear" I John 4:18

Character TraitsOur strengths appear in behavior that has positive effects on us as well as on others. Our weaknesses are revealed in behavior that is destructive in ourselves and others. Before we can correct our problem areas, we need to acknowledge and examine both, strengths and weaknesses. Understanding how we became the people we are, how we formulated the ideas, beliefs and attitudes that govern how we act, involves honest consideration of the forces, influences and needs that developed our survival skills and molded our current character traits. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Consider the positive character strengths you may already possess in the following areas:Emotional Healthy feelings or affective responses to one's self and others (i.e. I am able to feel and express my love for my spouse and my children.)Spiritual The good ways one relates to God (i.e. I have a strong commitment to Jesus Christ.)Relational Positive and supportive interaction with others (i.e. I have a healthy friendship with XXXX)Moral Proper ethics and behavior in thoughts and actions (i.e. I have a clear conscience concerning my business affairs.)Intellectual Quality attention and energy devoted to mental activites (i.e. I devote time to reading and study)Self-care/nurturing Healthy concern for self (i.e. I take time to go fishing)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Question 14. What do you believe is your major strength? How does it support you?Believe it or not I think I can answer this one! I think that God gave me my strong-willed spirit to be refined into a strength. Stubborness used by God creates tenacity and steadfastness to keep going in the midst of adversity. How often when my youngest adopted son displayed his inappropriate behaviors was I able to say to him that I was more stubborn than he was and that I was going to love him and stick like glue to him to make him do right. How many times did I want to give up on that kid and have therapists and judges say to me, "you can't save them all, only Jesus saves." Yes, Jesus saved him, but God also gave me to him for a mom for a reason. I got a call from him the other night. Grandchild #8 is due next month. Perhaps God is remindng me that my experiences with my son were to prepare me for the battle with and for my H. I was so discouraged yesterday morning. Pastor and I prayed together, my bible study prayed and my accountability partner and I prayed. I am renewed. I can go one more day. I made my airline reservations to be with my other son. Perhaps next trip, I will make a side journey to see my new grandchild and the son who God used to make me stronger.Question 15. What do you believe is your major weakness? How does it hurt you?Hmmm... was thinking through in my head about what a soft touch I am, a heart as big as gold, champion for the downhearted, sucker, easy prey....well, I had first thought maybe that setting boundaries was my weakness, but perhaps it goes deeper than that, to discernment flaws, the tendency not to be discerning in my relationships and how that sets me up for failure and much disappointment. The fallacy that I tend to live by that since God created us all, underneath all the garbage is the makings of a beautiful human being and we just have to dig for it, rather than recongizing that we are all sinners and by choice we ask God to change us into the sons and daughters that inherit the kingdom. Poor discernment skills lets me miss the usual safety things that I might have been supposed to be on the watch for, those red flags that call out warning...hmmm....hadn't thought of this before. Perhaps then that is why setting limits or boundaries are so hard for me. I can't believe that people actually treat other people as I have been treated, and as I know understand it, have allowed other people to treat me! Gotta think on this more. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.[b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[b]Question 16. Toward whom or what do you feel bitterness, anger, rage, and other forms of malice?This is another interesting question for me because I think for a long time, my father's perfectionism traits in me allowed only feelings turned inward, that is I wasn't allowed to feel those feelings outwardly so they went inwardly or were repressed, thinking somehow there was something wrong with mefor even thinking such a thing. Will talk more about repressed or inappropriately expressed anger next. I hope you all are getting something out of this and thinking hard as I am. This step of honesty has really challenged me. I hadn't realized how much God needs to change me to become the wife my H needs.

As I was reading these tips from the New Life Clinic, I thought that perhaps we could turn them around and try and understand the angry people in our lives, including ourselves.10 Ways You Can Overcome Angerby Steve Arterburn1. One of the key steps to overcoming anger is to identify the object of your anger. Many people who struggle with chronic anger aren't even sure what they're angry about. When you identify what you're angry about you can begin the process of dealing with it.2. One of the goals of an angry person can be to draw attention to themselves. They often feel that negative attention is better than no attention at all. If you don't feel loved or needed, this may be a root cause of your anger.3. Accept the fact that most things in the world are out of your control. If you try to continually control your family, friends or circumstances you will find the result frustrating.4. The root of your anger may lie in a lack of forgiveness. If you've never forgiven someone who's hurt you, you're caught in a viscous trap that will ultimately destroy you.5. Many who struggle with anger hate themselves. Self-hatred can be used as a tool to control your emotions. You may need to learn new skills to control your emotions in a positive way.6. You may be angry about things your family or friends have done to you in the past, even decades ago. This is called residual anger. It is possible to resolve this anger and move on with your life, but you must be willing to spend time identifying the root of your problem and choosing to forgive those who have hurt you.7. There are some legitimate physical causes for anger. If you suspect your problem may be related to a chemical imbalance in your body, be evaluated by a qualified psychiatrist.8. In truth, no one can "make you angry," even though they can provoke you. You can control your response to people and circumstances.9. There is a place for "righteous anger," when one of God's principles is violated. Scripture does admonish us to "not let the sun go down on our anger" though. In other words, when you feel angry, it is important to deal with it and move past it as soon as possible.10. If you or a family member is struggling with anger issues, they're not likely to go away by themselves. It is necessary to identify the cause of the anger and take proactive steps to resolve it.

Thanks for that <A HREF="http://www.surrenderedwife.com" TARGET=_blank>www.surrenderedwife.com</A> link. That controlling nonrespectful wife describes my parents to a T. It was a dance of disfunctional equals. She had the power to make him something, but was too weak to give such respect.Thankfully I never repeated the behavior with a man! I did consciously surrender exactly as she describes. That has got to be a big factor in where we are now! It is a lot easier.I noticed when my mom was taking care of us last fall that I was doing exactly that behavior that she had done to my dad that is so well described in those two chapters. It was extremely hard to relinquish control of my home and car and family. She had to drive me everywhere and I was just a stinker. Should have just shut up and shut my eyes, except she needed directions on where things were. Grrr. That was very stressful - being so controlling. <Never again!> It kind of feeds on itself, the more I would give instructions and criticize, the more I needed to. Both for my own soothing, and because she got more and more insecure and fearful of making a mistake. By the end of the month she was a quivering wreck in some ways. The monster I created.One other thought. In my first marriage I went too much in the surrender direction. I didn't feel competent or admired because I gave ALL the financial decisions to my H, and he did it, and did not consider my dreams at all. They were flatly impossible. And I did not feel I deserved them so did not pursue them like I should have.As soon as we split up I did obtain all those dreams I felt he had denied me. And as soon as he remarried, he gave them all to his new wife too!!! And more.So there has to be a balance. I suspect a strong dose of respect and "surrender" coupled with POJA on anything you still feel is very important after getting good at shutting up and surrendering the things inside HIS boundaries. This really is still about boundaries, isn't it?[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited February 03, 2001).]

What I appreciated about the Surrenderwife link and the information provided was that I truly seemed to have a block about what respect looked like and I frequently have asked others to show me examples of how it would play itself out. The public humiliation stuff I never did so I couldn't get a handle on what it was that I did that was disrespectful. Pastor and I had an interesting conversation this AM in that I feel more comfortable with the word "surrender" rather than the word "submission" and his male perspective was just the opposite. Whether it is the negative connotations that have followed the word submission over the years, I don't know, but to me surrendering seems more like a gift... what do you guys think?And I have been pretty consistent in asking my H what he wants to do about this or that and after receiving numerous "I don't know" or non-action, I have taken the bull by the horns and made some decision. Now, in the last few months, I am not doing that. I am waiting until he does have an answer...sometimes waiting a long time...still am waiting for some in fact... but I think it fits more with the POJA... my H doesn't believe in the POJA, but he knows that I do and that is how I am going to operate from now on. Pretty interesting to see his responses on some things. It is getting better ladies... we will make it... praise God for His patience with us and His sense of humor.

Can we resurrect the Power of a Praying Wife study now? Last time we tried to pray through the book everyone else abandoned it when we got to a certain chapter that I shall not make the mistake of naming again. I would like to pray for my husband and grow again and more with all you wonderful sisters.

Okay, I will back you in resuming this study. Can you lead it for awhile Friend. I am up to my ears in emotions since stopping smoking and doing lots of growth work attached to the addiction.And I know which chapter you mean and it doesn't do much for me, so you wouldn't get any input from me on it...smile.