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Hello there,

This is my first time writing, although I have been reading messages. I need some support. I am devastated. I found out that my H was having an affair two months ago. He said we would stop it (although he would need to continue working with the OW). Last night he tells me that he cannot live without her, and if he has to choose between us and her, he's choosing OW. I don't know what to do. I am hurting so badly. I thought we could work it out. I seem to be in shock. It's hard for me to work. It's hard for me to do anything right now. My insides are all upside down. Help.

I am sorry that you have to go through this. You are not alone and I am sure you will find the help here that you need. I have been there and it is not easy. I will not give any advice because there are lots of others that are better at that, but you can count with my support. Good luck! Love

Luna - you're in a safe place here.

Please start by reading the link in my sig line below, then describe everything to us about your marriage, family, and other things that are pertinent.

Order the books, Surviving An Affair and His Needs/Her Needs, available in the bookstore on this site or just about any on-line bookseller.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> if he has to choose between us and her, he's choosing OW. I don't know what to do. I am hurting so badly <hr /></blockquote>I'm so sorry, I know this hurts..and hurts horribly. Please call your doctor to maybe get some Anti-D. This will be VERY difficult.

HOWEVER..a little tough love now. Let him go..GOOD..he's not sitting on a fence anymore..he's made his choice.

Now let her try to fill all his emotional needs. You do NOTHING...cut off all contact. This is all still smoke and mirrors because he hasn't been forced into the light.

Well the light is on now. Is he intending on leaving the home ? Do you have children ? Is the OW married or have children ?

We will get you through this...you are not alone. But try really really hard to let him live with this decision. Sometimes...this is the best way to go...when they stand up for something..and make a stand..and have to live with that decision...it has a funny way of making them realize what a huge mistake it is.

Also find comfort in the fact that only 3% of all relationships that begin as an A, have a chance of survival. This will now die a painful death...but in the meantime...let's work on YOU..and getting YOU into a good place emotionally.

Inspite of his decision (choose the OW) I have asked my H to consider giving us a chance to work it out. I don't know if this is a good idea, because I guess "his heart" would not be in it if all he would be thinking about is the OW. He wants to discuss how "to separate" and make arrangements for the children. This is going too fast for me, and I told him so. He is trying hard to accomodate me because he would like to maintain a good relationship with me (inspite of it all) for the sake of the kids.

How can I start looking at details, ie. financial breakup, etc. if I can't even think right now. I am so hurt and alone and frustrated about decisions being made that affect me and there is nothing I can do about it. On the other hand, he has the OW to comfort him through all of this. Apparently this is not just a sexual thing, if it were he would be willing to work it out with me, it's more. He has found his "soulmate" and so he can't give her up.

I don't feel I can hold out with all the pain. First, learning about the affair, now that he wants to leave me for the OW. This is too much in too short of time. I don't know how to handle it. I am totally confused on how to best act now, living with someone who does not want to be with me, waiting for arrangements to be made. With H decision, I now feel we are total strangers. But, I would want so much to work it out. I guess this is impossible unless H is really wanting to work it out. I don't know why I bothered to even ask, that inspite of his decision, can we "try" to work it out for short period just to see. My feeling is that this would work against me. He would be going through the motion only. It will reinforce his decision in choosing the OW and in the long run reduce the chances of ever working it out. He says: had we gotten help a year ago, it would have been fine, but not now that the OW is in the picture. He just can't do it. He needs to think about what he wants, and not what he should be doing as a husband and father.

Welcome to MB. I'm glad you've been reading here. You are in pain and will probably be there for a lot longer. I'm at D-day + 3 months and it is only a little muted.

One of the things you will learn at this forum is that all WS spout the same lines. The plot varies little. People on this board could tell me what my WH was going to do 'way before he knew he was going to do it. The soulmate stuff, the not-in-love-with-you stuff, the push-your-buttons-and-make-you-mad-to-justify-my-affair stuff. The false recovery stuff. It's almost tiresome the way they all act the same.

Read the books. Work on your Plan. Give yourself some time. Our marriages are not built in a day. They should need be dissolved with out a lot of thought, time and effort.

((((((lunamare))))))

Welcom Luna,
It breaks my heart to read your post, as it could have nearly been me writing it. My Dday was 12/6/04, a little over two months ago.
My H would have chosen OW too, if she would have had him. He pretty much told me that. The situation wouldn't allow for it though, as she has a boyfriend that she is committed to.
I feel like I am second best and I can tell you, it's not really a very good place to be. I have been pulled a long on a string these past two months.
I feel like we are making progress and then BAM, he contacts her again. It hurts so much to know that your husband loves someone else. I feel it every single day.
I don't know that I really have any advice for you, but there are times I just wish I'd have just kicked him out on Dday. At least then, I'd be starting to heal by now instead of on this continuous roller coaster of wondering if he'll love ME again instead of her.

With my situation, all he will ever have with her is a friendship because she's supposedly chosen her boyfriend over him. He's still contacting her, so that tells me he's choosing "just a friendship" with her over a MARRIAGE with me.
It sucks. Best of luck to you.

Luna: Take a breath. Slow down. Stop. You do not have to do ANYTHING right now.

Your WS has got you right where he wants you -- frightened to death, completely off balance, and feeling utterly powerless. You are NOT powerless here -- he just wants you to think you are.

He is no different from any other WS who wants to have his cake and eat it, too. Do you know why he "chose" OW? Because he is certain that you will always be there for him and that he can always come back to you -- NOT because she is "better" or he loves her "more."

And he also "chose" her because he knew this would keep you freaked out and feeling powerless and willing to do anything to keep him around. Therefore, he's free to see her and still come back to you when he feels like it. If he had "chosen" you, well, his girlfriend would just move on to someone more available.

See how it works?

If you don't want a divorce, DO NOTHING. DON'T help him with it. Drag your feet all you want. If he wants a divorce, let HIM do the dirty work. You are NOT obligated to help him destroy your marriage.

Read the articles elsewhere on this site. If you think you can stand to follow Plan A, then do so for a while; you can always go to Plan B, which is usually what it takes.

Okay. Take a deep breath. Don't let him run roughshod over you. You have much more control here than you think. Keep posting and asking questions -- and don't panic. He's no different from any of the rest of them.
Mulan

Dear Mulan,

You are right. I am completely off balance, don't know what to do, feeling powerless in the situation. He knows he can count on me, and that I still love him. He is trying hard to maintain the best relationship he can with me (for the kids he says) but I do think it is also because he doesn't want me out of his life. In this sense you are right. He wants to have the cake and eat it too. He apologizes that his decision is hurting me so much, but says he can't help it. He has feelings of guilt, but justifies them by saying that "it's part of life, and that sometimes we don't control everything, and need to move on".

I do feel "clingy" at this time. I don't know how I can do Plan A when I am in so much hurt. He wants to separate. He's staying only to work out the logistics. I feel awkward sharing a house with someone who doesn't really want to be there, but I feel fragile, need him to be there, and he is prepared to be there for "a time" but says he will need to move on soon, and that I should not try to "drag it" out hoping the OW will go away, because if so, he will surely resent me. Says he does not want to give me hope because there is none for us staying together. I feel so frustrated, cut off from trying to "work out" our relationship, because I would like to give it a shot, but he does not!

He wants me to accept his decision, and understand what he is feeling for the OW, and to give him back his "freedom". I can't believe that he is now referring to our union as a "prison". I am soo hurt. I didn't think I could feel so much pain.

He says our relationship has not ended, it just will evolve to another relationship, that of parents trying their best to take care of the kids. I know he does not want me to make a scene. He's having a hard time with his decision, but does not want to budge.

I am sorry for rambling on. I want to Plan A but I don't know how to do it when I am soo sad inside, and he does not want me to meet his EN. He has become distant, and now wonder if he is forcing himself to give me hugs, and hello kisses. Now I imagine he is thinking about the OW all the time, waiting for the time they will eventually be together once he has "settled" things with me, and feel the whole situation is reinforcing their "two against the world syndrome" as the OW also needs to break up her marriage to be together. I sometimes feel like contacting the OW's H. I see him in the same situation as mine: devastated, as OW recently also told him of her A with my H.

I don't know how to act, don't know what to do, don't know how to feel, don't know how I feel - I am a total mess.

Lunamare,
pay attention to all the good advice you sre given here. It is specially important that you read as much as you can the stuff on the website and the books. You will see how similar all WS are, it's really unbelievable. You could be describing my WH!!!!!!
Let me tell you that d day was 26 oct and during the 2 months of plan A we had a much better relationship than during the previous weeks. It was a relief for him that we did not talk about the A or our R, and then on the 26th dec I went into plan B. Now this is a relief for me. It is hard, you will cry a lot but if you follow the plan you will be successful. Whatever happens.
You cannot control your WH and specially not while he is a WH so don't even go there.

Concentrate on yourself. Follow plan A for a while because it is absolutely necessary for plan B to be successful.

Read, read, read.

and post whenever you want. We are all here to helpyou get thru these moments and even the boring ones that may come later. There are great people here who know.

Breathe.

First off, (((((Lunamare)))))!

Everything you have said he is saying has been said before by so many other WS...he is living in a fairytale right now....not a prison.

The prison / freedom viewpoint is a textbook dillusion. Of course it seems like freedom, when you don't have to deal with any realities like in-laws, bills, kids, REAL LIFE. An A is like living on credit cards--you get what you want right away, without having to pay. But believe me, his bill will come.

I have to go but wanted to say, it may be hard but don't take to heart the things he is saying right now...again...he is dillusional.

BE SURE to read as much as you can on S Harley's principles and buy the books ASAP! Good luck.

Oh also, don't neglect your physical health. Eat right, lots of water and sleep...and if you can go running /walking do or go to the gym!

Good luck!

lunamare,

You should call the OW's H. Please don't assume he knows about the A or that he knows the truth about any of this....chances are...he doesn't. Read about all of Plan A...including the difficult parts...exposure and confrontation.

lunamare,

You are not alone. Many of the things you have described happened to me and others here. Many of the things your H has said are standard WS script.

I would suggest studying fog talk and train yourself to become an expert at it.

It took me 3 months to finaly understand the fog talk but now my life and my marriage is much more sane.

I want to thank everyone who has sent a message to me. I really appreciate it. I am still totally confused on what I need to do, should do, etc. but I do find it helpful to be able to talk about it to you all, and get some feedback from "out there".

I always looked forward to going home. Today, not knowing what to do, I wish I did not need to go home and see my husband. There is so much sadness in our house. I want to protect my 2 kids but I know that I can't shield them from this, and worst of all, I do feel I am not totally available to them as I was been before. I feel I am neglecting them, doing the minimum because I am so hurt, I feel numb. I don't feel like that very often. It must be my way of taking a break from the pain. There is so much pain and hurt and wish I knew how to make it better. I am so mixed up. So totally unprepared to deal with all of this. I am usually a very upbeat person. This is a very unusual state of mind for me. I don't trust my judgement anymore. Don't know if what I do makes things better or worst. I so wish to know what I should do. I feel helpless right now. Totally devasted, but I need to work, I need to take care of my kids, but what I really want to do is crawl in a hole and lay there for as long as needed to, but can't. Right now, I don't feel up to anything, let alone "navigate" what will probably be the most difficult period in my life.

I just want to cry and cry and cry and cry, but feel I can't let myself go, for fear of not being able to function afterwards. What a bummer! I don't know what to do with all these emotions inside of me. I feel I am going to burst.

lunamare,
it will get better but you will also probably cry alot. At least I did. I also wanted a hole to crawl into but I finally made it out of the hole. Do read and see that there is a plan. This means that your feelings are expected, and described, what to do is suggested to you, what your WH will do is even predicted.

There are too many of us in the same situation unfortunately and Dr. Harleys teachings and his plans are helping us. If they didn't work do you think there would be 40 000 of us here?

read. that's the first thing you have to do. Get the books and read this website or listen to the audio on the website.

Try to calm down and act cool tonight. Don't cry in front of your husband. Good luck and check back tomorrow. Take it one day at a time

OK, Luna - I'm a guy so bear with me.

We validate your pain and confusion, but lets get to work.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by worthatry:
Please start by reading the link in my sig line below, then describe everything to us about your marriage, family, and other things that are pertinent.<hr /></blockquote>Please fill us in on some details? We can't do any more than validate your feelings and say your sitch sounds just like so many more here unless we know more.

In additon to the stuff I already asked, what do you know about the OW? Married? If so, do you know how to contact her H? Children? You said your H and OW work together. Please describe the arrangement? Is he her boss or vice versa?

WAT

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lunamare:
 I sometimes feel like contacting the OW's H. I see him in the same situation as mine: devastated, as OW recently also told him of her A with my H.<hr /></blockquote>OK, I didn't see this before.

Why do you believe OW's H knows about the affair?

How do you know, "OW recently also told him of her A with my H."?

Because your H said so?

Don't believe a word he says. Further, OW may be lying to your H that she told her husband.

Contacting OW's H is one of the first tasks you have to perform. Assume he knows nothing. This is the beginning of exposure that you'll read a lot about here. Vitally important.

WAT

***You are right. I am completely off balance, don't know what to do, feeling powerless in the situation. He knows he can count on me, and that I still love him. He is trying hard to maintain the best relationship he can with me (for the kids he says) but I do think it is also because he doesn't want me out of his life. In this sense you are right. He wants to have the cake and eat it too.***

He sure does, and right now he is convinced that he has succeeded. Heh, heh, heh. Little does he know . . .

***He apologizes that his decision is hurting me so much, but says he can't help it.***

Sure he could help it. He just doesn't want to. Life is real, real good for HIM by not helping it.

***He has feelings of guilt, but justifies them by saying that "it's part of life, and that sometimes we don't control everything, and need to move on".***

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

He is very, very smug, isn't he? Again, that's because he is convinced he has found a way to have two women at once and that he has 100% succeeded. Sure, Luna is a little upset, but she'll learn to adjust. He's just *sure* of it. That's why he's spewing such incredible garbage out of his mouth. DON'T believe ANY of it.

***I do feel "clingy" at this time. I don't know how I can do Plan A when I am in so much hurt.***

I am a big fan of Plan B myself, but you may not be ready for that quite yet. I would say just keep reading all you can on Plan A and Plan B. That way, you will have *some* sort of plan for *yourself* instead of just helplessly waiting for his next stab at you.

***He wants to separate. He's staying only to work out the logistics. I feel awkward sharing a house with someone who doesn't really want to be there, but I feel fragile, need him to be there,***

I understand. It's hard to say whether you feel worse when they're there or worse when they're gone.

***and he is prepared to be there for "a time" but says he will need to move on soon, and that I should not try to "drag it" out hoping the OW will go away, because if so, he will surely resent me.***

Oh puh-leeze -- HE is the one who is going to "drag it out" as long as possible. You can bet the house on it.

You may get other advice here, but I think you will get far better results here with the soonest Plan B you can manage. Why? Because your H is a smug, arrogant cake-eater who is just *sure* Luna will wait for him no matter what he does. He needs a good dose of "be careful what you wish for -- you may get it."

***Says he does not want to give me hope because there is none for us staying together.***

That's easy to say when he is sure you will never leave him and can't live without him. Heh, heh, heh.

***I feel so frustrated, cut off from trying to "work out" our relationship, because I would like to give it a shot, but he does not!***

You don't have to wait for him. There is much you can do on your own. Keep reading on this site.

***He wants me to accept his decision, and understand what he is feeling for the OW, and to give him back his "freedom".***

Oh, yes. Again, Luna, he feels safe in saying this because he is sure you'll never, ever do it. He is convinced that you will just sit and wait for him if he moves out to be with his girlfriend and that poor helpless Luna will take him back anytime. "Be careful what you wish for . . . "

***I can't believe that he is now referring to our union as a "prison". I am soo hurt. I didn't think I could feel so much pain.***

I understand. But he is just trying to make this YOUR fault and dump all of his guilt on YOU. That's all this is.

***He says our relationship has not ended,***

He's right. It hasn't. He doesn't want it to or he would have left with no forwarding address. He just wants to have both a girlfriend AND a wife, and he is sure he has succeeded.

***it just will evolve to another relationship,***

Yes, one filled with lies and deception and abandonment and third parties. How fun! His parents must be so proud.

***that of parents trying their best to take care of the kids.***

Oh, yes, abandoning one's children to go live with a girlfriend is certainly the very best thing for the kids.

***I know he does not want me to make a scene.***

Oh, honey -- he's COUNTING on you not to make a scene. He is POSITIVE you will NEVER stand up to him or make a scene of any kind. Think about it -- what would he do if you DID make a scene?

***He's having a hard time with his decision,***

No, he isn't. He thinks this is great. He's got two women on a string. He is having his cake and eating it too. HE is not having a hard time with ANYTHING.

Yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

***but does not want to budge.***

Yes, it's nice and comfy for him sitting up on that fence, isn't it?

***I am sorry for rambling on. I want to Plan A but I don't know how to do it when I am soo sad inside, and he does not want me to meet his EN.***

Just do the best you can. But with a hard-core fence-sitter and cake-eater like your WH, I don't think anyone could stay in Plan A for very long. It will only enable him, but it may be a stopgap while you get your ducks in a row to go to Plan B.

***He has become distant, and now wonder if he is forcing himself to give me hugs, and hello kisses. Now I imagine he is thinking about the OW all the time, waiting for the time they will eventually be together once he has "settled" things with me, and feel the whole situation is reinforcing their "two against the world syndrome" as the OW also needs to break up her marriage to be together.***

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Luna, this is what he wants you to be thinking. As long as this horrorshow is playing out in your mind, you will be too paralyzed to move and too frightned to make a fuss. This is EXACTLY what they are BOTH counting on.

Keep reading. We have Plans for your WH. Heh, heh, heh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

***I sometimes feel like contacting the OW's H. I see him in the same situation as mine: devastated, as OW recently also told him of her A with my H.***

Absolutely you should. Read some of the threads here by people who have done this. Just be aware that this will rock your WH's world and he will be furious. Remember what I said about him counting on you not to make a fuss? And about how we have Plans for him?

Heh.

***I don't know how to act, don't know what to do, don't know how to feel, don't know how I feel - I am a total mess.***

You are a betrayed wife whose husband is acting like an adolescent jerk. You are hurt and enraged all at once, and you have every right to be. For now, just take care of yourself and read all you can.

We've got Plans. He has NO idea what's coming. Heh.
Mulan

Luna, I could feel the heaviness in my chest when I read your posts. You are posting MY STORY, exactly, word for word.

((((((Luna)))))))))

Pay attention to Mulans post. The first thing that came to mind when I read that was """BINGO"""".

2 months before dday, I got the 'love you, but not IN LOVE with you speech' out of the clear blue. Didnt see it coming at all. I watched him, read here at MB, and noticed many signs of a WH. By the time D-Day hit on May 16th, I was hurt, but ready to leave. 2 weeks after d-day I was looking for an apartment. I was being the best me I could be, but for myself, not him. He begged and pleaded for me not to go every single time I had an appt. to look at an apartment. I was ME around him (even tho my eyes were swolen shut from crying when he wasnt around, and I had the shortest short term memory in history)
As soon as I showed him that I was hurt but I was moving on, it would confuse the hell out of him.
Dday was almost 3 years ago, and we are still together <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Be the best you can be, but do it for YOU and your kids, not HIM.

And yes,,,,, Talking to the OW's H was one of the best things I did for myself.

Keep posting here when you need to talk, there are many people here that have felt the way you do. You will always have someone to listen, and you will always get the best advice.

I will keep you in my prayers. S&I

I have found that posting in here and reading replies has helped me get through things like this. Keep you chin up! The pain will eventually subside and you will realize that you will be ok as an incredibly beautiful intelligent single woman who is desired by many others!

lunamare

Do yourself a huge favor. Print out this thread Your emotions are in complete turmoil right now, and you will absorb about 5% of some of the most fantastic advice you will ever receive. You need to print it, and read it over and over.

This is a situation THOUSANDS of us have been in. Many, if not most, people survive an Affair in the course of their marriage. Some, simply said, do not. Nearly ALL of the people who trust and employ the Marriage Builder's philosophy move forward in their lives as much STRONGER, SELF CONFIDENT, RELATIONSHIP SENSITIVE individuals, whether their marriage survives, or not.

It is a WIN/WIN program.

As others have said, purchase and read "Surviving an Affair" as soon as possible. Read about EXPOSURE AND PLAN A first. These Plans are for YOU, and not for you to "encourage" your WH to participate in with you. These plans are for YOU!!!

He has no plan. He is in what we call the FOG. He's crossed "the line" regarding boundries in your marriage and your vows before God. He is a lost soul right now, and trying to talk any "sense" into him, is useless. He is consumed by the addiction to his "fantasy". Words uttered to a WS are like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile!

Actions are what make the difference. Plan A is all about actions. Plan A is identifying those things about you that may have contributed to the marriage being vulnerable to an affair. Set forth to changing all those things about you immediately.

Perhaps the most important thing you need to do is EXPOSE the affair, out of love for your H, not out of spite or vengence. Tell those people closest to him, that your marriage is in trouble, your H is involved in an A, and you are informing them so they might help play a part in him reconsidering his actions. The most IMPORTANT exposure is the OW's H. Tell him first, and DO NOT WARN YOUR H YOU ARE GOING TO TELL HIM!!! If you do, your H will just tell her first that you've gone nutty, and are going to be telling the guy some crazy story about an affair, and at best, soil your credibility.

Counsel with the Harley's if possible. They're the best. Counsel on your own until such a time your H is in a mental state to join you. Marriage Counseling for a WS still involved with the OP is a waste of money and time.

Get some local support. Parents, siblings, church leaders, close friends. Remember, most will just say "dump him". You'll need to convince them you have a PLAN, to save your marriage, and you need their assistance.

Lastly, BELIEVE in yourself. All is NOT lost. You have just begun a journey you have not chosen, and it will be lenghty, very painful, and very frustrating, but NOT impossible. And with the MB philosophy, the forums and all the wise people here, you will survive!!! Believe!!!

Best wishes,
SD

Luna, please listen carefully to worthatry, shattered dreams and Mulan. You have alot of work to do right now and you MUST focus.

Your mission is Plan A, which means doing everything in your power to end this affair. Don't pay any mind to the things your H says right now, because he is under the influence of an addictive affair.

It is your job to BURST THAT FANTASY. And the way you do that is expose, expose, expose. Exposure is probably the most effective thing you can do to help this affair die a quick death.

See, an affair cannot survive for long without the secretive fantasy aura. When you expose to her H, your family, his family, their boss, you force them to explain this ugly affair. This forces them to see it through normal, rational eyes, and to a normal person it looks pretty ugly indeed. They start to see it in that same light. Exposure makes an affair very uncomfortable and hastens it end.

Contacting the OW's H might very well spell the end of the affair. She probably has no intention of leaving her H and exposure will force her to make a choice and cause great discomfort on her end. It will cause HUGE problems in her home and workplace.

So, get to work. Make a list of all pertinent people who should be contacted: OW's H, boss, your parents, his parents, etc. Tell them your H is having an affair and ask for their support and prayers.

Call them all in one day and DO NOT forewarn your H. I think it is important to call all of them in one day, because it is much easier to recover from one lovebuster than it is MANY. And expect your H be MAD AS A HORNET, but that is just fine. Just smile and tell him you will do what it take to save you marriage.

It is also important that you drag your feet about seperating. Seperation is your ENEMY and will only cement the affair. Don't cooperate. Smile sweetly and tell him you just are not ready for that. No thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

In the meantime, do not do any lovebusting: ie: disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, etc. Be as pleasant as possible and try to meet his needs. Try and be someone he would WANT to come home TO! Your job is to make yourself more attractive than the OW.

[ February 16, 2005, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

P.S. Nor will you be "his friend" for "the children!" What a load of crap. What he really wants is for you to be all chummy with him so he doesn't have to face the consequences of destroying his family for a ho-bag. He wants you to be "nice" while he destroys you so he doesn't have to feel uncomfortable. ["now, please don't scream whilst I stick the knife in, dear, lest you hurt my ears!] Is THAT your idea of a friend? Don't let him get away with that.

Tell him you are his WIFE, not his "friend" and have no intention of being anything other than his wife. Tell him you already have all the "friends" you need.

[ February 16, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]

So glad you are back ML..

..end mini threadjack

Noodle

luna ....with your plate overflowing at the momement and filled to the gills with advice and support; here's another scoop for ya. This is deja vu for many of us here who have been where you are.....and the rumor "You will survive" must be true because those of us here are proof. The best advice I could give has already been given....you don't have to do anything right now.....but do go tell it from the mountain top that your WH and the OW is having an affair. The only other advice I don't see offered here, but have seen strong effects from is to extend the exposing of the A to include the OW friends, family and pastor. (That is if the low life mutant has a pastor).

Douse the flame of this affair with a bucket of water, (exposing the affair), and let the rain (reaction from friends, family, pastor, co-workers, etc) finish it off.

Even in the darkest hour there are only sixty minutes.

I am sorry but I don't understand what this means. Can someone explain please?

Welcome back Luna! I have to say I wondered about you this morning! I am glad to see you are here for some healthy support, because you have just been sucked into a VERY VERY unhealthy situation. Where lies seem like love and the betrayed seem like the guilty.

I am a FWS, and I thought that it might help you to have a perspective from the 'otherside'.

You have a lot of responses and they are all good...but please read the response a couple of times from MELODYLANE.

SHE IS RIGHT ON.

Think of your WH as being on drugs. His brain is NOT functioning clearly. He is living in a fantasy world. Save him from himself. EXPOSE his behavior. I wish someone would have done the same for me. Only until he has to take a good look in the mirror at the person he has allowed himself to become (one that would betray and lie to his own family and then abandon them)...will he begin to see some light.

He thinks he is in love with this OW, but he is really in love with how she makes him feel about himself. This illusion will be destroyed when he sees who the "Himself" really is.

Good luck!

WAT suggests, "Give us some details!!!!"

We CANNOT help you with strategy until you do.

Sheese, ladies, cut with the "feelings" stuff and get something done!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
WAT

Luna,do a search. It is a learned technique to counteract the WS fog talk that means absolutely nothing but hurts like heck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hello everybody,

I am really surprised with the feedback. There are a lot of you out there! It's hard to keep track a little bit, but I am seeing some of your personalities coming through, particularly, I see Worthatry impatient for details in order to offer solutions, and I see most of you as being very generous in sharing your experiences, and I thank you all for that. Unfortunately, I consider myself a "visual" person and will take some time to get to know some of the regulars.

Yes, yesterday, I was a real mess. Today I am feeling somewhat better.

Yesterday, in an exchange with H, with more of an attitude of acceptance of his decision on my part, trying to "listen" more and not challenge him, I learned a bit more. His position about what he feels and feelings in general is that there is never any guarantee, but that he at this point is willing to take the risk and not have any regrets for having passed by something that he considers to be "a beautiful connection with someone who accepts him totally", and hopefully learn not make the same mistakes that he has in our relationship, in order for this new relationship not to end up like ours now, which means he is realizing that he has made some for us to end up at this point. To which I simply asked: do you mean that your feelings for the OW may possibly change ie. this being totally in passsionate love? That your feelings for me ie. friendship, tenderness may possibly change? To which to my surprise he answered: of course, they may. He is also seeing himself and his decision as being very selfish. I am trying not to read too much into these lines, because I know deep down, I am looking for signs to continue "hoping" that we can work it out, but I definitely was surprise a little bit considering how in other exchanges we have had he had ferociously defended his feelings for the OW as being unlike anything he had ever felt or ever will.

We are planning the meet a MC next week. I do see him being the fog still. I don't know what our point of departure with the MC will be because at this point it's not reconciliation, because he wants to separate except I am not there yet. So, we have decided that a starting point could be: how did our relationship end up where it did without deciding about where we are going from here. My H is more of an impulsive-expressive type, but he is also curious and wants to learn about some of the things that put "distance" between us (specifically, I think he is curious to know his role in it all). I am also curious to know how it will be talking about our relationship with a third party as we have always mostly discussed it between the two of us.

I do realize I tend to be wordy, not organized in my thoughts, but bear with me. I am just writing what comes to my mind for now. It seems to help.

Although I have confided with a few friends, I tend to not what to bother people too much, so I am glad I have this place and a group of you to lean on. I do feel your concern for me and again I appreciate this very very much. It takes away some of the "loneliness" feelings I may have at times. Thanks. Thanks a million.

We ar

Luna -- I think WAT is asking for details such as how you met your husband, what the marriage has been like up to now, what jobs do you have, what are your kids like, etc. Things like this help us understand what might help you in your particular situation.

Also -- please do not let your husband make you think he is trying to choose between you and the OW. HE WANTS YOU BOTH. THAT IS HIS GOAL. AND HE WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO KEEP BOTH OF YOU STRINGING ALONG.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking he is a poor confused man trying to choose between two women. That's what he wants you to think but that's not true. He wants both of you and he will spout any amount of lies and bullcrap necessary to keep both of you.

Be very, very careful not to fall into this trap.
Mulan

Veteran MB person here. He will try to keep you both. I too got the love, but not in love speach over 4 yrs ago. My advice:

antidepressants

something mild for sleep

speak to an attorney to know your rights, and let your H just know that you are speaking to an attorney (this is just a consult, not for divorce-but don't tell your H anything other than you are seeing an attorney-watch him sh@# his pants). He thinks he will control this and he will not like loosing control.

keep with plan a for now until you are stable on your feet

let OW H and his (your H's) place of employment know that they are having an affair. Exposure is a good thing. Rocks the fantasy relationship into reality.

this will not be solved overnight, but the stats are with you-keep doing your daily activities

plan a plan a plan a and when you are ready and if he does not give up OW, you should then plan b

See how many people are here? Our poll (unscientific) suggested that 75% of our MB marriages survived. Many people cheat, most stay with their spouce in the end. Love sometimes needs to be tough. If you want to keep him, you need to draw a line in the sand. What pushed my H off the fence, was the idea that his bride might marry another and his kids would call someone else dad. Show him your courting and marriage photos and remind him that he once felt that way about you too.

He is classic. These affairs are from the affair handbook. HONESTLY-I've been around and I can almost call out the next step. READ here and use your brain, not your heart. It will be alright. MB worked for us. Hugs Jersey Girl

PS FWS now says it was the most stupid thing he ever did. He also now says he never really loved her-just infatuation. Worst mistake of his life...also classic after the affair when the fog lifts...they cannot believe what they did, ergo, abducted alien and the fog. The real man is still in there.

He may be angry, that is OK. He will not like that you have taken control of your life and your situation. He has had months to plan this. Now you must be strong and not let him shake you. He and the OW have been sitting in their bubble, time to take the pin and burst it. Again, use your head. They hate to loose control. He'll get over his anger-trust me.

luna

All of this takes time. All of this takes a plan. Plans require facts. Surving an Affair contains those facts.

Before you proceed, take a 2 day time out, and read Surviving an Affair. All of the advice you are receiving will make much more sense when you understand the philosophy of Marriage Builders.

You have received the "right" information in these responses. It is now what you do with the information that counts.

Go back to "worthatry's" first post and read his "quick start guidelines", and then re-read all of the information you've receive here so far.

Realize that you cannot control your WH's actions. Realize that ACTIONS you take may strongly INFLUENCE your WH. Realize your H is caught up in an addiction and you can believe little of what he says. He will lie, deceive, conceal, manipulate and forsake all he's ever been to feed the addiction.

The Marriage Builder's philosophy will take you step by step through the ACTIONS that must be taken to play a role in ending the affair and beginning reconciliation. None of it is particularly easy. All of it takes a great deal of strength and resolve.

You will receive little or no help from your H. He is not thinking clearly and doesn't understand how the addiction has consumed him. The "work" is completely upon your back.

Unfair? Yes. Of course. Nothing could be more unfair.

The most important thing for you to understand right now is to rely on your brain (intelligence), and not on your heart (feelings). Your heart will lead you to do counterproductive things. Your brain will keep you on track with the MB philosophy.

Are you ready to get to work?

Best wishes,
SD

[ February 17, 2005, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lunamare:

I do feel "clingy" at this time. I don't know how I can do Plan A when I am in so much hurt. <hr /></blockquote>Hi, lunamare.

I am sorry you are hurting. I am just getting to read your thread, and I wanted to make sure that this particular behavior was addressed. If it already has been, then my apologies for adding unnecessarily to your load.

I know this is difficult and counter intuitive, but the clingy/needy/touchy/feely behavior has to change immediately.

This behavior has a multifaceted effect. It will cause your husband to withdraw from you, and it indicates to him, his level of control over you.

For those main reasons, you must stop the behavior. Replace it with a 'loving distance'. Smile, be open and warm, but let him initiate most of the affection and conversation. This serves to put him somewhat off balance, rather than you. It will help him to doubt his actions. This is a good thing.

If you can quickly master this, you may find him engaging you, and asking "what's the matter?". It can help change the shift of focus and the balance of power in the relationship.

Please remember that it is a LOVING distance. Not vindictive.

All the best,
Gimble

Dear Gimble,

Thanks for the advice. You are right. I should stop this behaviour, also because it hurts to "reach out" and no response is forthcoming.

It seems that slowly but surely distance is being created between us, and I panick somewhat because I can't imagine, once the distance has been put there, how one day it can possibly be reversed. My first reaction is to try and maintain some connection, but I do see that it actually encourages H's withdrawing more. If he is withdrawing, I don't see how he will "engage" with me. It feels like two strangers living under one roof. This feels really awkward.

And it's really hard to try to come from a "loving" place when at the same time I feel rejected and unwanted. I want to withdraw in return just to protect me and I have to fight it because I think this is what partly got me in this trouble in the first place. Withdraw to avoid being hurt.

I do wonder how I will get through all this. I am not feeling very good today.

Lunamare
Married: 20 years
Children: 2 boys, 9 and 14

Ok, married 20 years and two boys, 9 and 14.

This is all I have to work with so far.

What does your 14 yo know?

He is old enough to understand that married people should not have separate boyfriends and girlfriends.

DO NOT intentionally pit him against your husband. DO NOT expose the affair to him in an attempt to gain him as an ally.

But DO answer any questions honestly and DO NOT deny that your H is hurting the family and is doing something wrong if he asks questions that represent that he knows pretty much that something is wrong. DO NOT hide the affair from him if he asks questions whose honest answers require you to reveal the affair to him.

Not all may agree with this advice.

WAT

Hello again Luna,

Have you bought the books and have you started on your Plan A exposure yet?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lunamare:
.....
I do wonder how I will get through all this. I am not feeling very good today. ....

<hr /></blockquote>Hi, lunamare.

That is to be expected.

The way you are going to get through all this is with a plan. You are going to read the books recommended on this site, and follow the principles outlined therein.

That is going to be your plan of 'attack'.

-That plan is going to give you clear direction.
-That plan is going to give you an advantage in the effort to recover your marriage.
-That plan has worked for many marriages here.

You will find that having a plan is going to provide you with more comfort, in the long run, than tears, or hand holding, or the commiseration of a close friend. All of those are good things, but the plan is in effect 24/7.

You will get through this.

All the best,
Gimble

I agree, I need to have a plan, just to at least not go insane.

I haven't gotten the books, but I have read everything on the site, and know about the concepts,etc.

I am going to try and give myself some direction.

a) avoid LBs (anger, disrespect, judgement) during our exchanges;
b) re ENs - at this point I don't know which ones I meet, which ones the OW meets, and with this I am confused because he seems to be in the "withdraw" mode; all I can try and do is to listen and understand where he is coming from without judgement; try not to be too "in his face" or clingy;
c) work hard at not "trying to convince him" that we as a couple have "potential" because he is in a FOG state, in love with OW, and cannot imagine this at this point (even I can't! at this point)
d) try not to get discouraged - even though I am - because my EN are definitely not being met!

But mostly it's because overall, I am still not able to wrap my mind around what is happening. We are seeing a MC next Tuesday and I don't know what we will be telling him. H is ready to separate, I am not (although I know if he wants he can just leave - which he doesn't really want to do and is ready to give me some "time"). Will he resent me for not collaborating? Is this a big LB? Is it realistic to discuss with the MC how we got here as a couple, and not discuss where we are going from here? Will H see it as me not "accepting him, his decision". I also expect the MC to say that it will be difficult to work on anything without knowing which direction we are prepared to discuss for the future. This meeting is getting me really uptight. I don't feel prepared. My H at his worst or when feeling fragile, can "attack" (not literally), can be very rigid, very proud, as a way at getting at me, and hopefully he won't do this with the MC. But somehow I know I need to be prepared to hear hurtful things, and I am not sure I will be able to take it. I am feeling extremely fragile, so how am I going to "stand up" for myself, for my M. I feel the tension getting to me a bit. I don't feel confident, I do feel like giving up (but then there is so much at stake!)

It's hard not knowing if the efforts I make are actually helping or hurting the situation, because it's hard to "read" H's reaction (because sometimes there's none) and I can't read his mind! So, living under this limbo state of "not knowing" is really hard, and it's hard to plan: finance, projects, etc. how long can things be kept up just on a day-to-day basis.

God help me to have the patience with both myself and H.

I just feel like crying now.

Thanks to all for being there. I give all of you hugs. I read some of your situations, which are or have been really hard. You all have a lot of courage. At this point, I don't know if I have what it takes.

Lunamare

Sorry, here's a bunch of questions though...

Has your husband agreed to NC with OW while you are going to counseling etc.?

Does anyone else know about the A?

Do you know who OW is? Have you contacted OW H yet?

Have you told your WH that you intend to expose?

How does he react to this?

This is all going to his "decision"--I'll explain later.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lunamare:
We are seeing a MC next Tuesday and I don't know what we will be telling him. H is ready to separate, I am not (although I know if he wants he can just leave - which he doesn't really want to do and is ready to give me some "time"). Will he resent me for not collaborating? Is this a big LB? Is it realistic to discuss with the MC how we got here as a couple, and not discuss where we are going from here? Will H see it as me not "accepting him, his decision". I also expect the MC to say that it will be difficult to work on anything without knowing which direction we are prepared to discuss for the future. This meeting is getting me really uptight. I don't feel prepared. My H at his worst or when feeling fragile, can "attack" (not literally), can be very rigid, very proud, as a way at getting at me, and hopefully he won't do this with the MC.<hr /></blockquote>Let's set aside your anxiety with the upcoming MC meeting for a moment. But it is justified. Let's work on the practicalities.

Whenever a MB "newbie" BS like yourself announces that you and the WS are seeing a MC jointly for the first time, I get chills up my spine. This is because of the complete unknowns of both the BS and the MC. We feel we know the WS pretty well. Kinda ironic, huh? But this is the truth. We KNOW what he's gonna say, what his attitude will be, and even what his conclusion will be afterwards. I am 99% certain of this.

We can't say that about either you or the MC, though. This is why I've been pressing you for details. But even WITH your details, the MC is a wild card. Half of them out there are below average and many of the remainder are either not pro-marriage or are amateurs masquerading as "real" counselors. How many does that leave?

I am not trying to create more anxiety in you, I'm just providing a synopsis of the accumulated information shared here about these first MC sessions from many others. Without your preparation, it's a total crapshoot for you. There CAN be more good than harm coming from this, however, and you should procede as planned. What I am working up to is a recommendation that you try to get an individual session with one of the MB counselors first. Think of this as an insurance policy for your first joint visit next week - an attempt to keep you from being the sitting duck. They can arm you with knowledge, questions and answers you'll need.

If this is not possible, please start a new thread asking advice for a first joint MC session to be as prepared as possible. Heck, start the new thread anyway to get as much knowledge as possible. We'll do the best we can to help you and you'll go in, hopefully with realistic expectations and a plan, so that it WILL be worth it.

WAT

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Freefromlies:
Have you told your WH that you intend to expose?<hr /></blockquote>DON'T DO THAT!!!!!!

He'll receive this as a threat and it gives him an opportunity to "warn" others that they may be hearing from his crazy wife who is going through menopause and is out of her mind and has this wild, crazy suspicion that he's fooling around on him just because of this bad movie she saw last week.

Take it to the bank.

WAT

lunamare.

You can't control him or his actions. Also, trying to read a wayward spouse is akin to trying to read tea leaves in the bottom of a cup.

All you can do, is do the things that are under your control, well.

You can't meet all his emotional needs right now. What you can do is let him see positive changes in YOU. Work on YOU.

Study the 'distance' issue. Learning to juggle the 'loving distance' principle is one of your best weapons in the battle.

I don't coddle very well, although I try to be very gentle with the ladies, but some hard core truth is in order. You are in for a rough ride. This, you can not change. This pain has come into your life and it is going to stay for a while.

BUT

Pain is a part of life, just like joy. All of us have to deal with it in our lives. No one is immune. Everyone gets bitten.

So, instead of panic, face the fact that there is no easy path around what you are facing. Stand up straight, and walk through it. I know you have heard "a straight line is the shortest path between two points". It happens to be oft repeated because it is true.

You have listed points on your plan. This is good. Sit down, write it out. Keep it short and simple. Memorize it to the point where you can repeat the list forward and backward, effortlessly. The reason you want it planted in your brain is because it is very difficult to 'remember' when you are extremely stressed, or in a situation that is akin to an emergency.

It will get easier. Be patient.

Gimble

I second the BAD counselor risk, a counselor told me not to ever tell my BS about my A!! Biggest mistake of my life!!!!!

Why not use Steve Harley? I understand his sessions are over the phone...and since he specializes in this arena.

WORTHATRY: You don't think she should expose?

Answers to questions from Freefromlies,

No, he has not agreed to NC with OW (they work together); that's part of the problem of seeing a MC- why are we seeing one? So he can tell me that he wants to leave me (for the OW) - which I have heard - or will we focus on what happened to us, because we do have kids, and we will need to communicate and collaborate.

Yes, I do know who the OW is. Apparently her H and family is aware of the A. Both OW and H are seeing IC. H says that OW will probably leave OW H.

I know my H is not a good source, but he says that "no" they do not have a pact to each leave their spouses so that they can be together. If fact, he's not sure he wants to live with her. He just wants his freedom back.

On our side, some family members and some friends are aware of A.

Yes, the whole situation puts me as the victim, with him deciding it all!

I do agree the MC is an unknown. I expect a miracle probably. A third person telling my H that this is not a good time to make decisions, best to review relationship and see what happened, etc. My H seems set on moving on at this point! But then he is agreeing to meet MC - to please me? So that I won't be trouble? To shut me up? I know that it takes two to tango. H doesn't want to right now. Will he change his mind, or if does, will he be too proud to says so? Some people are prepared to pay a high price just to be right.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Freefromlies:
WORTHATRY: You don't think she should expose? <hr /></blockquote>Yes, she should expose - without warning. I don't think she should tell her H that she is before hand.

WAT

***No, he has not agreed to NC with OW (they work together);***

Oh, gods, what else is new . . .

***that's part of the problem of seeing a MC- why are we seeing one?***

Many, many people here will tell you that seeing a marriage counselor while the WS is still seeing the OP is an utter waste of time and money. And I solidly agree.

You are hoping the counselor will tell your H that married people do not date and this behavior is NOT okay. (I hoped for the same thing with three differnt counselors. Not one of them did this. Forget it.)

WH is hoping the counselor will tell YOU to just let him have the freedom to "be himself" (translation: date other women) since that's what he wants and you can't change him.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

So, yeah, what IS the point of going to MC? I agree that IC for you would be much saner.

***I know my H is not a good source, but he says that "no" they do not have a pact to each leave their spouses so that they can be together. If fact, he's not sure he wants to live with her. He just wants his freedom back.***

Of course. Like I said, he wants you both. He just wants to have both the security of marriage and the fun of dating other women and is fully prepared to bully you into going along with this. Expect him to get meaner if you begin standing up to him.

Mulan

sorry, double post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ February 18, 2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Scared&Insecure ]

Once again, I agree w/Mulan.

My H also said that he didnt want OW to leave her H, but he did want out of our M to 'get his freedom back'. I saw it as 'he wanted his cake, and eat it too' He changed his tune when he suddenly realized that I didnt want him under those conditions. I was leaving, that left him w/2 choices, his FREEDOM, or HER, I was not a decision, or an option. He decided he didnt want either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yes, at one level he will have what he wants, because we have two kids together and he knows I will do what it takes to protect them most (translation: work with him and accept his conditions). He knows me too well! Bottom line, I won't make a scene to protect my kids, and he doesn't want to either for the same reason. So, we go down quietly, with him mostly wanting what he wants.

Here I am naively wanting to fight for my M all alone. Right now I objectively feel that I find myself quite pathetic.

How can you fight a partner wanting his 'freedom', while you are coming from a position of ideals such as maturity, committment, responsibility, introspection,whatever. I feel really stupid right now. But, I guess I am going to feel a lot of things that I haven't felt, or haven't felt for a long time.

I feel a lot of sadness. I see the glass half full, H sees the glass half empty. Am I on my way towards acceptance, or am I giving up? Am I being just stubborn?

I am definitely mixed up, and don't know where I stand. I could get really hurt here! The pain is hard to bear already.

Anyway, until next time.

Again, I appreciate the time you are taking to read me and advise me. I don't know you all nor your histories, but I can tell you have been in a similar path, one way or another.

I know you all probably see things that I don't yet see. But I hear you - you're all telling to get ready for a very bumpy ride, that I did not necessarily want to take. I just hope I will survive it. I don't know if I would put that much effort for myself, but my kids are my light - I don't want them to suffer more than they have to.

Lunamare

Luna, when I was 15 my parents sat me down calmly and told me that my mother was in love with another man. It hurt my father a lot but they didn't want to "upset" the kids by making a scene. My father was very angry at my Mom, but mostly hid this from me. My mother told me that her love and special connection with someone else was the reason she could not stay in the marriage.

13 years later, I expressed the same disrespect for marriage and instead of facing my partner or leaving with my own pride, I took the cowardly route and had an A. I am not blaming my mother or my father for my adult decisions....and I am doing my best to accept responsibility for my own betrayal and lies.

But I can't help but think that if my father had made more of a FIT and declared that love cannot come from lies and deceit that maybe I would have had more respect for those promises I made to my own BS. I really wish my father had explained to me that when you are unhappy in a marriage you do the honest thing and face your spouse and leave if you must but leave honestly!!! I really wish he would have made a strong stand and said that what she did was cowardly...after all it is the truth, right?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> In trying to protect my image and respect for my mother, they damaged my image and respect for marriage. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

As a FWS, I may not have the best advice for you, as I have not truly been in your seat.
But when I read the post about protecting the kids, I couldn't help but remember my own childhood.

YES PROTECT them...protect their idea of what honest and integrity should be. When they learn of the A, if they don't already know...let them know that your WH behavior is NOT acceptable. That his feelings for this OW are NOT love. I remember feeling like my mother had cheated on me somehow....but that since it was love then it must have been (okay).

It is NOT love. It is narccism. It is deceit and betrayal against the WHOLE family. And should be treated accordingly. I believe whole heartedly that NOT getting angry and NOT standing up for what should have been the sanctity of marriage may be setting your own boys up to experiencing the same thing.

Whew, I must have some real pent up anger about this because my heart is racing.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

((((((((((((((((luna))))))))))))))))

You've been through a lot in a short time. But you are getting really good advice here. I'm hoping you are "grounded" enough to soak it in!

As part of Plan A, exposure is like your largest non-nuclear bomb that can be used to help end the affair. Yes, in one way it can be considered a Love Buster, but, it's a very powerful weapon, and just a few exposures close to the epicenter (your WH) can make a huge impact.

It is important that you NOT tip your hand or "threaten" your WH with the exposure. It is intended to "blindside" your WH and pull the rug out from under the feet of the A. And it will.

Read all about exposure in this website, and fully understand it is an act of love, done for the sole purpose of bringing the A, which will best survive in secrecy, to the light of day. This is the single point that can have the very most influence on a WS, and sort of "shoves" reality into the fantasy world that has developed. Please don't take this procedure lightly, or do it without due research.

On another note.... this all takes place at a snails pace. You will be in an emotional turmoil for your foreseeable future. Train yourself to be patient, and try to keep busy with things that are important to YOU to keep your mind off the turmoil. The worst thing you can do right now is throw yourself a pity party, and wallow in the sadness of this mess. To do so can "freeze" your ability to take control of things that ARE within your reach, and empower yourself by doing those things.

We feel your pain. We understand what you are enduring. We wish we could take it away. But we can't. All we can do is advise you to take actions that are supported by the MB program, and believe in them, in order to make your suffering perhaps less than we had to endure, or shorter than we had to endure, by keeping you on the "mission".

Plan A with a vengence! Continue posting to vent, to ask questions, to receive advice, and to give yourself a "voice" in your future.

Best wishes,
SD

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^bump^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Hi, lunamare.

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How can you fight a partner wanting his 'freedom', while you are coming from a position of ideals such as maturity, committment, responsibility, introspection,whatever. I feel really stupid right now. But, I guess I am going to feel a lot of things that I haven't felt, or haven't felt for a long time.
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You fight by setting boundaries. You can not fight and avoid conflict at the same time. Fighting for your marriage IS conflict. Trying to keep everything on an even keel, and fighting for the marriage is not going to happen.

You don't fight his desire for freedom. that will just make him want it more. What you are fighting for is your marriage. Plan A is about showing the best parts of you and your marriage to your wayward spouse and taking actions such as exposure, to help end the affair.

I know you are hurting. I wish I could give you a big hug and tell you it will all be alright, but I can't. You have a lot to face, and you need to be able to do that head on and with a clear mind.

Listen to what these people are telling you here. They can help you get to a place of strength. That place of strength is the place you stage your fight from if you want to succeed.

Come on, sweet lady. Head up, face forward. Wipe the tears, put on your makeup and brush your hair. This thing isn't over yet. People have recovered from much worse. You can do this.

God Bless,
Gimble

Hello everyone,

I had an anxiety attack over the weekend. Needed to see a doctor who gave me something to calm down, but he warned me: it was only for a temporary relief, and needed to work at the root of the problem. Yeah, right!

Anyway, I know what is getting me anxious. I have decided to go through with the meeting with the MC tomorrow night. That's what is getting me anxious - I don't know what will happen.

I do agree with some of you, that I can't fight for my M and not make waves.

I know my H wants us to meet the MC to help us with the breakup. I am not yet there and don't want to necessarily collaborate, because I don't feel we have done the work to get us there - at the breakup point. I see my H depressed, withdrawn, and not able to put distance with the OW, and H sees as the only solution to the problem - breaking up. He says he doesn't want to fight me, but I don't feel like going down without a fight, I don't feel our relationship has been given the chance it should. I want him to consider working on our relationship, by looking at the obstacles, facing them, etc. but he doesn't want to and I can't say I have ever really confronted my H on anything serious, and now I feel like doing it, and I know all hell will break out.

What have I got to lose? He won't like my not wanting to collaborate, and he will be mad as hell - is that what I am afraid of? His reaction if I say I don't want to collaborate? He can certainly leave anyway - can't stop him, but it won't be with my help - because I don't agree with him.

But, what's the point of fighting him? Will it just make life twice as hell, I wonder? Will the kids pay the price? Would this be the biggest LB ever, and make the whole situation worst, and really blow any chance possible? Should I stick with Plan A? I do feel my Giver has had enough, but my Taker taking over isn't any better. How can strike a balance?

My suggestion is to give us a delay - say 2-3 months - and let's see what we can find out. If it leads to a breakup, fine! There is a problem here: my H being in bad faith and deciding to just put in time, and this will get me even madder. But, then again, who knows?

I just reread myself, and I don't think I am thinking straight - I think I am being totally unrealistic. I wish I knew what to do!

Please give me your thoughts.

Thanks.
Lunamare

Luna -- have you read up on Plan B? Do you think you are ready to go straight to that?

I don't see where trying to stay in Plan A will do anything more than let your husband cake-eat, and only make you feel worse and worse and worse. I agree that he only wants to go to marriage counseling to let them "help" with the breakup so that you will be "okay." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I also get the clear impression that your husband is totally, utterly living in Fantasyland. In his mind, he thinks MC will help you ease out of the marriage, that you and the children will be just fine, and that you will still be there as his best friend anytime he feels like coming around to see you.

Do you see how this just prolongs his fantasy of having two (or more) women in his life? Hey, I'll be he thinks you could all take a house by the sea together, too!

He needs a big cold dose of reality. He thinks he wants a divorce? He needs to see what divorce would REALLY be like so he can wake up from the idiotic fantasy version of divorce he's got in his head.

If you divorce:

Luna will NOT be his friend. (With friends like this, who needs enemies?)

Luna will NOT be in ANY part of his life except maybe to discuss child support payments.

The children will NOT "be all right." They will be devastated and will never entirely lose the effects of their father abandoning the family for a girlfriend. Their relationship with him will be permanently damaged and *may* even cease to exist.

He will permanently lose his family and Luna's extended family. The house he knows will be gone, along with everything in it. He will have ONLY his girlfriend and whatever she's got. Period.

This is what Plan B does. It gives a huge slap of reality to a WS who is living out a riduculous fantasy of what divorce is like. That's why it works so well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Please do give it some thought. Plan B will give you some relief and some peace and some sense of control over a rotten situation, and you desperately need those things right now.
Mulan