I have found that posting in here and reading replies has helped me get through things like this. Keep you chin up! The pain will eventually subside and you will realize that you will be ok as an incredibly beautiful intelligent single woman who is desired by many others!

lunamare

Do yourself a huge favor. Print out this thread Your emotions are in complete turmoil right now, and you will absorb about 5% of some of the most fantastic advice you will ever receive. You need to print it, and read it over and over.

This is a situation THOUSANDS of us have been in. Many, if not most, people survive an Affair in the course of their marriage. Some, simply said, do not. Nearly ALL of the people who trust and employ the Marriage Builder's philosophy move forward in their lives as much STRONGER, SELF CONFIDENT, RELATIONSHIP SENSITIVE individuals, whether their marriage survives, or not.

It is a WIN/WIN program.

As others have said, purchase and read "Surviving an Affair" as soon as possible. Read about EXPOSURE AND PLAN A first. These Plans are for YOU, and not for you to "encourage" your WH to participate in with you. These plans are for YOU!!!

He has no plan. He is in what we call the FOG. He's crossed "the line" regarding boundries in your marriage and your vows before God. He is a lost soul right now, and trying to talk any "sense" into him, is useless. He is consumed by the addiction to his "fantasy". Words uttered to a WS are like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile!

Actions are what make the difference. Plan A is all about actions. Plan A is identifying those things about you that may have contributed to the marriage being vulnerable to an affair. Set forth to changing all those things about you immediately.

Perhaps the most important thing you need to do is EXPOSE the affair, out of love for your H, not out of spite or vengence. Tell those people closest to him, that your marriage is in trouble, your H is involved in an A, and you are informing them so they might help play a part in him reconsidering his actions. The most IMPORTANT exposure is the OW's H. Tell him first, and DO NOT WARN YOUR H YOU ARE GOING TO TELL HIM!!! If you do, your H will just tell her first that you've gone nutty, and are going to be telling the guy some crazy story about an affair, and at best, soil your credibility.

Counsel with the Harley's if possible. They're the best. Counsel on your own until such a time your H is in a mental state to join you. Marriage Counseling for a WS still involved with the OP is a waste of money and time.

Get some local support. Parents, siblings, church leaders, close friends. Remember, most will just say "dump him". You'll need to convince them you have a PLAN, to save your marriage, and you need their assistance.

Lastly, BELIEVE in yourself. All is NOT lost. You have just begun a journey you have not chosen, and it will be lenghty, very painful, and very frustrating, but NOT impossible. And with the MB philosophy, the forums and all the wise people here, you will survive!!! Believe!!!

Best wishes,
SD

Luna, please listen carefully to worthatry, shattered dreams and Mulan. You have alot of work to do right now and you MUST focus.

Your mission is Plan A, which means doing everything in your power to end this affair. Don't pay any mind to the things your H says right now, because he is under the influence of an addictive affair.

It is your job to BURST THAT FANTASY. And the way you do that is expose, expose, expose. Exposure is probably the most effective thing you can do to help this affair die a quick death.

See, an affair cannot survive for long without the secretive fantasy aura. When you expose to her H, your family, his family, their boss, you force them to explain this ugly affair. This forces them to see it through normal, rational eyes, and to a normal person it looks pretty ugly indeed. They start to see it in that same light. Exposure makes an affair very uncomfortable and hastens it end.

Contacting the OW's H might very well spell the end of the affair. She probably has no intention of leaving her H and exposure will force her to make a choice and cause great discomfort on her end. It will cause HUGE problems in her home and workplace.

So, get to work. Make a list of all pertinent people who should be contacted: OW's H, boss, your parents, his parents, etc. Tell them your H is having an affair and ask for their support and prayers.

Call them all in one day and DO NOT forewarn your H. I think it is important to call all of them in one day, because it is much easier to recover from one lovebuster than it is MANY. And expect your H be MAD AS A HORNET, but that is just fine. Just smile and tell him you will do what it take to save you marriage.

It is also important that you drag your feet about seperating. Seperation is your ENEMY and will only cement the affair. Don't cooperate. Smile sweetly and tell him you just are not ready for that. No thank you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

In the meantime, do not do any lovebusting: ie: disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, etc. Be as pleasant as possible and try to meet his needs. Try and be someone he would WANT to come home TO! Your job is to make yourself more attractive than the OW.

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

P.S. Nor will you be "his friend" for "the children!" What a load of crap. What he really wants is for you to be all chummy with him so he doesn't have to face the consequences of destroying his family for a ho-bag. He wants you to be "nice" while he destroys you so he doesn't have to feel uncomfortable. ["now, please don't scream whilst I stick the knife in, dear, lest you hurt my ears!] Is THAT your idea of a friend? Don't let him get away with that.

Tell him you are his WIFE, not his "friend" and have no intention of being anything other than his wife. Tell him you already have all the "friends" you need.

<small>[ February 16, 2005, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

So glad you are back ML..

..end mini threadjack

Noodle

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

luna ....with your plate overflowing at the momement and filled to the gills with advice and support; here's another scoop for ya. This is deja vu for many of us here who have been where you are.....and the rumor "You will survive" must be true because those of us here are proof. The best advice I could give has already been given....you don't have to do anything right now.....but do go tell it from the mountain top that your WH and the OW is having an affair. The only other advice I don't see offered here, but have seen strong effects from is to extend the exposing of the A to include the OW friends, family and pastor. (That is if the low life mutant has a pastor).

Douse the flame of this affair with a bucket of water, (exposing the affair), and let the rain (reaction from friends, family, pastor, co-workers, etc) finish it off.

Even in the darkest hour there are only sixty minutes.

I am sorry but I don't understand what this means. Can someone explain please?

Welcome back Luna! I have to say I wondered about you this morning! I am glad to see you are here for some healthy support, because you have just been sucked into a VERY VERY unhealthy situation. Where lies seem like love and the betrayed seem like the guilty.

I am a FWS, and I thought that it might help you to have a perspective from the 'otherside'.

You have a lot of responses and they are all good...but please read the response a couple of times from MELODYLANE.

SHE IS RIGHT ON.

Think of your WH as being on drugs. His brain is NOT functioning clearly. He is living in a fantasy world. Save him from himself. EXPOSE his behavior. I wish someone would have done the same for me. Only until he has to take a good look in the mirror at the person he has allowed himself to become (one that would betray and lie to his own family and then abandon them)...will he begin to see some light.

He thinks he is in love with this OW, but he is really in love with how she makes him feel about himself. This illusion will be destroyed when he sees who the "Himself" really is.

Good luck!

WAT suggests, "Give us some details!!!!"

We CANNOT help you with strategy until you do.

Sheese, ladies, cut with the "feelings" stuff and get something done!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
WAT

Luna,do a search. It is a learned technique to counteract the WS fog talk that means absolutely nothing but hurts like heck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hello everybody,

I am really surprised with the feedback. There are a lot of you out there! It's hard to keep track a little bit, but I am seeing some of your personalities coming through, particularly, I see Worthatry impatient for details in order to offer solutions, and I see most of you as being very generous in sharing your experiences, and I thank you all for that. Unfortunately, I consider myself a "visual" person and will take some time to get to know some of the regulars.

Yes, yesterday, I was a real mess. Today I am feeling somewhat better.

Yesterday, in an exchange with H, with more of an attitude of acceptance of his decision on my part, trying to "listen" more and not challenge him, I learned a bit more. His position about what he feels and feelings in general is that there is never any guarantee, but that he at this point is willing to take the risk and not have any regrets for having passed by something that he considers to be "a beautiful connection with someone who accepts him totally", and hopefully learn not make the same mistakes that he has in our relationship, in order for this new relationship not to end up like ours now, which means he is realizing that he has made some for us to end up at this point. To which I simply asked: do you mean that your feelings for the OW may possibly change ie. this being totally in passsionate love? That your feelings for me ie. friendship, tenderness may possibly change? To which to my surprise he answered: of course, they may. He is also seeing himself and his decision as being very selfish. I am trying not to read too much into these lines, because I know deep down, I am looking for signs to continue "hoping" that we can work it out, but I definitely was surprise a little bit considering how in other exchanges we have had he had ferociously defended his feelings for the OW as being unlike anything he had ever felt or ever will.

We are planning the meet a MC next week. I do see him being the fog still. I don't know what our point of departure with the MC will be because at this point it's not reconciliation, because he wants to separate except I am not there yet. So, we have decided that a starting point could be: how did our relationship end up where it did without deciding about where we are going from here. My H is more of an impulsive-expressive type, but he is also curious and wants to learn about some of the things that put "distance" between us (specifically, I think he is curious to know his role in it all). I am also curious to know how it will be talking about our relationship with a third party as we have always mostly discussed it between the two of us.

I do realize I tend to be wordy, not organized in my thoughts, but bear with me. I am just writing what comes to my mind for now. It seems to help.

Although I have confided with a few friends, I tend to not what to bother people too much, so I am glad I have this place and a group of you to lean on. I do feel your concern for me and again I appreciate this very very much. It takes away some of the "loneliness" feelings I may have at times. Thanks. Thanks a million.






We ar

Luna -- I think WAT is asking for details such as how you met your husband, what the marriage has been like up to now, what jobs do you have, what are your kids like, etc. Things like this help us understand what might help you in your particular situation.

Also -- please do not let your husband make you think he is trying to choose between you and the OW. HE WANTS YOU BOTH. THAT IS HIS GOAL. AND HE WILL SAY AND DO ANYTHING TO KEEP BOTH OF YOU STRINGING ALONG.

Don't fall into the trap of thinking he is a poor confused man trying to choose between two women. That's what he wants you to think but that's not true. He wants both of you and he will spout any amount of lies and bullcrap necessary to keep both of you.

Be very, very careful not to fall into this trap.
Mulan

Veteran MB person here. He will try to keep you both. I too got the love, but not in love speach over 4 yrs ago. My advice:

antidepressants

something mild for sleep

speak to an attorney to know your rights, and let your H just know that you are speaking to an attorney (this is just a consult, not for divorce-but don't tell your H anything other than you are seeing an attorney-watch him sh@# his pants). He thinks he will control this and he will not like loosing control.

keep with plan a for now until you are stable on your feet

let OW H and his (your H's) place of employment know that they are having an affair. Exposure is a good thing. Rocks the fantasy relationship into reality.

this will not be solved overnight, but the stats are with you-keep doing your daily activities

plan a plan a plan a and when you are ready and if he does not give up OW, you should then plan b

See how many people are here? Our poll (unscientific) suggested that 75% of our MB marriages survived. Many people cheat, most stay with their spouce in the end. Love sometimes needs to be tough. If you want to keep him, you need to draw a line in the sand. What pushed my H off the fence, was the idea that his bride might marry another and his kids would call someone else dad. Show him your courting and marriage photos and remind him that he once felt that way about you too.

He is classic. These affairs are from the affair handbook. HONESTLY-I've been around and I can almost call out the next step. READ here and use your brain, not your heart. It will be alright. MB worked for us. Hugs Jersey Girl

PS FWS now says it was the most stupid thing he ever did. He also now says he never really loved her-just infatuation. Worst mistake of his life...also classic after the affair when the fog lifts...they cannot believe what they did, ergo, abducted alien and the fog. The real man is still in there.

He may be angry, that is OK. He will not like that you have taken control of your life and your situation. He has had months to plan this. Now you must be strong and not let him shake you. He and the OW have been sitting in their bubble, time to take the pin and burst it. Again, use your head. They hate to loose control. He'll get over his anger-trust me.

luna

All of this takes time. All of this takes a plan. Plans require facts. Surving an Affair contains those facts.

Before you proceed, take a 2 day time out, and read Surviving an Affair. All of the advice you are receiving will make much more sense when you understand the philosophy of Marriage Builders.

You have received the "right" information in these responses. It is now what you do with the information that counts.

Go back to "worthatry's" first post and read his "quick start guidelines", and then re-read all of the information you've receive here so far.

Realize that you cannot control your WH's actions. Realize that ACTIONS you take may strongly INFLUENCE your WH. Realize your H is caught up in an addiction and you can believe little of what he says. He will lie, deceive, conceal, manipulate and forsake all he's ever been to feed the addiction.

The Marriage Builder's philosophy will take you step by step through the ACTIONS that must be taken to play a role in ending the affair and beginning reconciliation. None of it is particularly easy. All of it takes a great deal of strength and resolve.

You will receive little or no help from your H. He is not thinking clearly and doesn't understand how the addiction has consumed him. The "work" is completely upon your back.

Unfair? Yes. Of course. Nothing could be more unfair.

The most important thing for you to understand right now is to rely on your brain (intelligence), and not on your heart (feelings). Your heart will lead you to do counterproductive things. Your brain will keep you on track with the MB philosophy.

Are you ready to get to work?

Best wishes,
SD

<small>[ February 17, 2005, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: shattered dreams ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lunamare:
<strong>
I do feel "clingy" at this time. I don't know how I can do Plan A when I am in so much hurt. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi, lunamare.

I am sorry you are hurting. I am just getting to read your thread, and I wanted to make sure that this particular behavior was addressed. If it already has been, then my apologies for adding unnecessarily to your load.

I know this is difficult and counter intuitive, but the clingy/needy/touchy/feely behavior has to change immediately.

This behavior has a multifaceted effect. It will cause your husband to withdraw from you, and it indicates to him, his level of control over you.

For those main reasons, you must stop the behavior. Replace it with a 'loving distance'. Smile, be open and warm, but let him initiate most of the affection and conversation. This serves to put him somewhat off balance, rather than you. It will help him to doubt his actions. This is a good thing.

If you can quickly master this, you may find him engaging you, and asking "what's the matter?". It can help change the shift of focus and the balance of power in the relationship.

Please remember that it is a LOVING distance. Not vindictive.

All the best,
Gimble

Dear Gimble,

Thanks for the advice. You are right. I should stop this behaviour, also because it hurts to "reach out" and no response is forthcoming.

It seems that slowly but surely distance is being created between us, and I panick somewhat because I can't imagine, once the distance has been put there, how one day it can possibly be reversed. My first reaction is to try and maintain some connection, but I do see that it actually encourages H's withdrawing more. If he is withdrawing, I don't see how he will "engage" with me. It feels like two strangers living under one roof. This feels really awkward.

And it's really hard to try to come from a "loving" place when at the same time I feel rejected and unwanted. I want to withdraw in return just to protect me and I have to fight it because I think this is what partly got me in this trouble in the first place. Withdraw to avoid being hurt.

I do wonder how I will get through all this. I am not feeling very good today.


Lunamare
Married: 20 years
Children: 2 boys, 9 and 14

Ok, married 20 years and two boys, 9 and 14.

This is all I have to work with so far.

What does your 14 yo know?

He is old enough to understand that married people should not have separate boyfriends and girlfriends.

DO NOT intentionally pit him against your husband. DO NOT expose the affair to him in an attempt to gain him as an ally.

But DO answer any questions honestly and DO NOT deny that your H is hurting the family and is doing something wrong if he asks questions that represent that he knows pretty much that something is wrong. DO NOT hide the affair from him if he asks questions whose honest answers require you to reveal the affair to him.

Not all may agree with this advice.

WAT

Hello again Luna,

Have you bought the books and have you started on your Plan A exposure yet?