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Mom - I am absolutely stunned. I can't believe this. You know that this is not right. Wait until you are divorced! You know that I had a slip - but I didn't think I was falling in love. Please don't latch on to another man.

Please, please, please be careful. Have fun but watch out. For one thing, you are still married. Two, you are vulnerable and have a negative balance in your LB. Three, it's a good time to find out what you're made of and stand for a bit by yourself. A voyage of discovery, if you will. Four, think about your boys. Do they need guys cycling in and out of their lives? If this man is the "one", he'll wait for you.

On the other hand, I can completely sympathize. It's been a long time since I've had a kind word, a warm hug or a passionate kiss. A compliment and a little attention to me, the woman, would go a long ways. That makes you and me vulnerable. Can you be strong?

If nothing else, don't give Ed any ammunition to use against you. We're here for ya.

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Sounds very good. Not too good to be true but still in a "honeymoon" period. Slow and sure, my dear. Enjoy the attention. If he's not the one, it'll be a good trail run.

nevermind....

Well, I thought you were going to make it. I meant make it thru this without something like this.

Kandi, you know this is adultery, right? It is the same as Ed's. You are still married, still carrying on with a man that is not your husband. These are the facts.

Everything else is rationalizations, the same rationalizations that EVERY other WS has made here. That they deserved it, that their BS didnt do this or didnt do that. That the marriage was already over...all we had was a piece of paper. Blah, blah, blah.

All fog, all wrong.

I had watched you work so hard to do this right, to earn a new marriage with Ed, or to earn your way out of the current one. Instead, you took the same route Ed did.

Am I disappointed? Sure. I have watched your situation from afar since the beginning. I, and others, have wanted only the best for you and your kids.

The reality is that although there are all kinds of dogs, big...small...black...brown...they are still dogs. And there are all types of affairs. But they all are still adultery.

So, the reality of this is that you ended up just like Ed. And that I do not say lightly or to hurt you.

But right now, you are in the fog...as Ed said. He is right. Look at your post. You said how wonderful things are...and even though it might be wrong, you didnt care. That is the epitomy of a fog statement.

Well, at least now you know how Ed felt.

Good luck Kandi. I do mean that. I just wish you could have seen this thru.

In His arms.

Hugh mistake, [color:"red"]HUGE [/color]

Kandi,

Ever since I saw you two on Dr. Phil, Ed has made me sick to my stomach...I was hoping at least for your kids things would turn around.

I'm not gonna beat you down with this but just something to consider OK?

YOU could not win ED back while he was in the throes of his infidelity, you didn't have a chance, you could not compete with his fantasy right?

Guess what? Ed can't win YOU back while you are in the throes of infidelty, he doesn't have a chance, he cannot compete with YOUR fantasy.

What you wrote above is no different than what I have read, and heard, from other WS Kandi and that really saddens me.

Stop it and finish this the right way, and if "Mr. Wonderful" was so wonderful, he wouldn't be interested in a married woman.

Where have we heard this before? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

My favorite part was this: "it just happened"

**snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<<<<<<<<BIG sigh>>>>>>>>> Ohhh Kandi. I'm sorry <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Some doors shouldn't be opened no matter how hard opportunity is knocking.

Hey Mel....we have got to get that checked out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

IMVHO...and I mean HUMBLE opinion....

I do not think that m23b is finished with her marriage. She has NOT moved on...I still see some waffling of her own in her postings. The drama in the posts reflects that.

committed

grapegirl said:


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Grapegirl? are you are serious?

~THUD~ (I fainted!)

Susan

*~*~*~* ammonia pack under Susan's nose....

Wake up...

committed

NOT MINE!

As a woman, I resent that statement. How many of you women *DREAM* of a man that will date a woman that is still married?

~THUD!~

Susan

MF4M, please read what I have to say about the above statement on this post. The bottom line is that there is no such thing as “it just happened”.

Susan,
With all that ~THUD~'ing, I sure hope you took your tiara off!
You're gonna knock all the rhinestones out!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Nerly....

back away from the tiara...and no one has to get hurt...

<<<<<snatces tiara and runs>>>>>>>>>

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

You knew that moving on with your life did not mean having an A yourself before your DV'd. You know that A's don't just happen and that people make conscious choices to allow themselves to go in a certain direction.

I understand that you were probably lonely and wanting reassurance and affection etc. You really needed time to heal yourself and get strong on your own. Now you have tainted your this new relationship by having it just as illicit as Ed's because you are in fact still married.

Most counselors suggest waiting a minimum of a year after a DV to seriously date. I know that is easier said than done. You did have full responsibility to inform the new man that you couldn't see him until after your DV. Then at least you would have been free. I suspected that maybe you were doing things you shouldn't when you were talking about your new friend and going out with her and other new friends.

In MB we know the dangers of allowing other's to fill our EN's. We know that we can all be susceptable to A's if we don't have clear bounderies set up. You have moved on emotionally prior to DV thus depriving your boys of an intact family should your H really make a turn around and want to recommit to your marriage and family and do the right thing. Now that he may be willing to do that your heart and mind is elsewhere. You came close to doing that before when you were separated and Ed got jealous. You already knew you weren't going to have a problem replacing Ed if and when the time came. You knew that you were an attractive woman who was worthy of love.

The choice for an A was all Ed's and you knew that your marriage could have been salvaged if he had decided to work on it with you instead of succumbing to the temptations of the A which has gone on to create havoc and instability in your boys lives. Now you are doing the same.

I am disappointed in your poor choices. We are all human and are indeed fallible. None of us is perfect. not me, not you...not your new man.

Kandi,

I'm not going to smack you with a 2x4 or tell you how wrong you are. You are an adult....the decisions are yours to make.

I will tell you how destructive it is to get involved with another or any man at this point though.

Not because you are not divorced yet....or because Ed may want to reconsile now....or whatever.

I certainly have no right to judge you, because I did the same thing.

You are WAY too vulnerable at this point to get involved with anyone. You have WAY too much baggage to bring into a new relationship.

The statement you made......"I wasn't LOOKING for it....it just happened". Where have you heard that before?

My H has said it.....Ed has probably said it......90% of the WS's have said it.

Regardless of the fact that you are still legally married, this is not a good situation for you to be in at the moment.

One of the things that I have learned through my own experience is that after something tramatic like this happens we tend to latch on to anyone or anything that will fill those needs that have gone unmet for so long.

My particular relationship with another man was already disolved before my H wanted to reconsile and I realized that I had not really had TRUE feelings for this other man....but essentially used him to fill MY own needs and wants. I felt terrible afterwards to know that I could use someone like that and it also gave me some insight into how my H felt and thought.

I'm not saying that you absolutely should not see this other man....but really think hard on your reason for wanting to see him.

At this point are you really ready....emotionally for a relationship?

Trix,



I do not think it is fair to blame Kandi for depriving her boys of an intact family. Kandi was not the one that initially had the A. Kandi did not force Ed to get the OW pregnant with Ed's child. Kandi did not force Ed to want to be with the OW.

I personally think that Kandi put up with Ed's crap for WAY too long.

Saying that she should still be sitting at home pining for Ed and waiting for him to decide to come home and make it all right is unrealistic. When one dicides to file for divorce they start moving on. Granted not all move quite as fast as Kandi has....but that is the point of filing for divorce. People don't file for divorce in hopes of restoring the marriage.

JMHO

As a matter of fact, I'm already one diamond shy of a load. Lost it somewhere in Jackson. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Miss Priss,
That was a qualified statement of mine not to be construed that M23B should be pining for her H at all. I believe that the Harley's say as much themselves about dating before your DV'd. No matter how awful Ed has been...all WS are varying degrees of awful (or behave badly) during their A's, there has always been the potential for him to make an about face and do all the right things with the right amount of contrition and remorse thrown in for good measure. Ideally, the turn around happens before the DV. If the BS has already moved on (with an OP) prior to that possible occurrance they are depriving the marriage a chance for real recovery and thus an intact family. They then get confused, thus M23B's turmoil. Some people extend the refraining from serious relationsips for a while after the DV but are still open to other possibilities. They need to work through a mourning period and get whole themselves. Not to substitute a void in their heart with another person too soon.

Prior to MB, during my H's longest A, I did go out with another man a couple of times. I didn't actually/technically 'have sex'...but I would have...revenge? loneliness? It wasn't 'love' and didn't progress...but by the grace of God. I still have guilt and feel bad (ashamed of myself) about the extent of what it was which was a 'mistake'. It and another man flirting did make my FWS jealous...the old I don't want her but I don't want anyone else to have her either. A recovery based on that isn't necessarily a real recovery. We had a false one after that and it was another year before that (his) A actually ended for good.

Hey M,

You sound much different sweetie, I am glad you are finding that love and attention, finally, I am sorry it had to come from someone else and not Dad, the father of your children...that would have been the best for the kids...but oh well. And Dad has been living in the fantasy that he wants OW, but you would ALWAYS be waiting for him, he is now realizing a MAJOR consequence of his actions.

Yes, this is breaking the rules of fidelity, and overlapping R is not healthy for you. Your R with D is going to taint this new R. There is much hurt and pain to get over and even AFTER the D you will still need to heal.

I remember after living with my BF for 3 years, finding out he cheated and asking him to leave I met my future H a few months later...it was 3 years into our R I wasn't triggered by past events from my old R...I was constantly saying things like, "Oooh, I remember he told me I was a terrible cook and he didn't trust me with knives, and I think I'm pretty good with a knife..."

My concern is you are a vivacious, wonderful, spontaneous creature, but this spontaneity is a double-edged sword and your quick decisions have caused problems for you...phone calls, or quick statements (this is part of the Adult ADD).

My suggestion? Take it VERY slow with this guy, or take a break till after the D. Learn to provide those EN's for yourself. He has given you some tools, now learn to do it yourself and not depend on someone else's determination for your self-esteem...

This is good news, but be careful!

My other suggestion? Don't talk with Dad!!!

Holy Moses people, do you really expect this woman to give up a relationship that is making her happy to spend her time awaiting her cheating liar of a H to 'come out of the fog' and be the man that he has shown he isn't even capable of being?
She has filed for divorce, divorce = not married anymore. So what if it's a few weeks from being finalized? She knows she doesnt' want to be with this creep who has treated her and her kids like crap for all this time. I guarantee you, if he wouldn't have found out about this 'other man', he would still be living his arrogant life expecting Kandi to be sitting at home waiting for him and his money to come back.

Life is about today and about creating our own happiness. She gave Ed upteenth chances to do the right thing, I think she's entitled to move along to her own happiness. So if it doesn't work out, she'll live..but at least she won't live feeling like the crap that her H has been treating her like.

Lighten up people...

I may be totally wrong here, but this is the way I saw it -

I believe that M23B was boasting !! Which given all that she has been through, it understandable. But not right.

Carnation

She is actually entitled to 'move on' completely...when she is divorced. Before that it is still adultery. Of course in this morally relative society which we have created...just about anything goes.

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MF4M/M23B-
I am sorry Kandi, but D23B is right, you are in the "fog"- and you are not thinking clearly. You saying it "just happened", or he is perfect, or you are happy, or you deserve this because your needs had gone unmet for so long, or you have been unhappy for so long; ect- is THE EXACT JUSTIFCATION that Ed himself and many other WS used to JUSTIFY their affair. Think about what Ed told you, think about how you can not even conceive the thought of working things out with Ed because you are so happy with this new man. Kandi I am not even remotely saying for you to give Ed another chance, if it is not in your heart, if you have no love for this man- however you can not and will not know if that is the case with a OM (yes [color:"purple"]OM [/color] in the picture. You do deserve happiness, and I can see how easily it would be to be drawn in, trust me I do, especially when you think your M is said and done and now is just a matter of paperwork. However think of your boys, think of the long run, think of yourself, and the vows you made before God.
Just take a step back from the situation, think of it like it were me, or your best friend- or your son's wife.... Step out of the box. Yes this man is meeting your EN, maybe even your PN, but you have a chance to rebuild the relationship you faught so hard for- are you sure you are ready to give up on that dream?
I am not saying that relationships started at your stage do not last. My mother cheated on my father, and part way through the divorce he met a woman whose H had cheated on her, they were eachothers support system, and they fell in love. They married exactly 1 week <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />after their divorces were final (much to the dismay of the children- and the shock of their now ex-spouses) however they are a very happy couple and are still together 14+ years later. Sorry rambleing....

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Holy Moses people, do you really expect this woman to give up a relationship that is making her happy to spend her time awaiting her cheating liar of a H to 'come out of the fog' and be the man that he has shown he isn't even capable of being?

Nope...I would think that people expect her to be TOTALLY finished with the old relationship. She is NOT divorced yet, and not only that, but she is still undecided about her WS. Here is where the indecision is... He has now said that he will wait for me to "make up my mind" whether I want this man or him....only problem is I dont have a year and 1/2 as he did...I have approx 8 weeks if that...


Hmmmmm....

Life is about today and about creating our own happiness.

That sounds like WS verbiage....

committed

Sorry if my post seemed like I was coming down on you...I am happy for you!

And as far as reasons to take it slow with this guy or take a break?

You have a WONDERFUL opportunity to be on your own and make your way in this world, emotionally, mentally, physically, spiritually, relying on yourself. Getting too attached, too early on in your healing will stunt that growth and not give you the opportunity to learn some valuable tools about doing it on your own...

You have been M for a long time, enjoy being single for awhile...and I don't mean the dating part, but other things...and no, you haven't quite gotten there now until the D is final...there is some real closure in your life that happens AFTER the D...mainly, learning a new way to set boundaries with Dad, and learning to rely on yourself that won't come until the end of September.

I think meeting this guy is a HAPPY thing. I also want to see you not jump too quickly into another R before YOU can heal a bit...for YOU!!!

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It sounds like to me your admitting more of the same old game playing. The tragedy in this is that your children don't deserve 2 game playing parents. Bless their hearts!!

Also, bless the "man is remarkable" heart. He probably doesn't deserve it because he is very aware that you are MARRIED but I do feel sorry for what he has gotten himself into.

M23B- You are not a bad person. You are human. Humans need connection, affection, admiration. You are only human to want those things. I do not think you were in the wrong to follow your heart, you thought your marriage was 100% over, and it was just paperwork- however now that Ed is back it changes things. I am NOT NOT NOT saying that you should drop everything you have accomplished because Ed is jealous, however I do think you should consider it, it your whole heart and soul before you go and toss it aside. Right now you are thinking like Ed did when he was new in his A, remember back to how you felt then too.

Maybe just maybe you give Ed the chance to PROVE himself to you SLOWLY- very slowly. If this man is what you say, he will understand. In every relationship there is a chance for heartache-- the question now lies in which man you are willing to take the risk with. The man you commited your life too that has three children with you, or this new path of discovery where the trust has not been broken, and is full of surprises at ever turn. Both has it + and -. Think long and hard and make the best choice for you- no matter what others say.

Kandi -

I won't go into wrong or right here. It's already been covered, and people have different opinions.

But I do want to reiterate what a couple other posters have said here - your heart isn't ready for this. You've had such a long drought of attention and affection that ANYTHING would cause your heart to flutter.

I don't really hold out any hope of D23B being able to win you back - even if he really has changed (which is doubtful), the length of time and amount of effort it would take to make you truly love him again is huge - or at least, it should be, if you don't want to find yourself right back in the same position again. I just don't know that the amount of damage he has done would be surmountable for him.

But you really do need some time alone. If you're honest with yourself, you are really afraid of that, aren't you? And I understand how hard it is to turn down this kind of attention, especially after the verbal and emotional abuse you've gone through for many years now. But you need to conquer those fears first, make sure you know you can handle being alone and making it on your own before you go depending on someone else again.

At the beginning of a relationship, of course he's treating you wonderfully. And he could be a truly awesome guy that will continue treating you that way.

But we all know that feelings change over time, and the only way a relationship holds up is if those feelings of infatuation turn to real love, and both people work at keeping that love.

The problem is, you need a few tools to be able to get to that point, and one of the biggest is that ability to be alone. The ability to call off a relationship if it can't stand the test of time. By getting involved so soon, before you've learned how to do that, you run a real big risk. Let's say a couple of years down the road, he isn't as attentive or affectionate, and things aren't going well, and you're having trouble communicating. At that point, are you going to be able to take a risk and talk to him about it? Or are you going to be so afraid of being alone again, of him getting upset and going to someone else, of having to go through the heartbreak and devastation of divorce again, that you'll start making excuses for him, and put up with just about anything because you start feeling like anything would be better than going through this mess again.

Right now you have the unique opportunity of looking back to figure out where your boundaries failed, and how to try and avoid these problems the next time. That opportunity will be lost if you cover the pain and drown out the introspection with a new relationship. You need to learn how to make and hold those boundaries, lest you end up in the same place all over again.

If this OM is really the great guy and 'the one', then he will be willing to wait until after your are DV'd and through all the trauma of the DV. That would mean, just as with any other A...NC. You already know this.

If a part of you still loves ED, then you two need some serious counseling and you both need to continue IC... or he needs to start IC. I wouldn't put the D on hold again. If it goes through...it goes through. He really shouldn't move back in right away either way. You both need time alone...without other people involved. Everything in your lives needs to be sorted out, not the least of which is OC. But ultimately it is worth it because you two have 3 boys together and nothing will change that reality.

I understand how good the new feelings can be. But you have been here long enough to know all about that stuff.

How can we help you sort this out? I think that lots of folks here don't want you to give Ed anymore chances. You know that I can go either way and that lots depends on Ed's commitment to positive change in his life. Now it is complicated by your having an OM. You know that NC is the next step.

Talk with this OM, talk about taking a break.

My fear is that you will feel guilt, guilt, guilt if you do not go about this D and new R in order. Don't add guilt to a new R. R's amd M is tough enough without bringing THAT kind of baggage...

Can you wait 2 months?

Hi Kandi,

I personally think you have earned your D. It's all just paperwork now. I dont think this is even in the grey area... Marriage over, paperwork underway. Normally, I understand how the board feels. But you have worked so hard, been through so much, it IS really just paperwork now.

Ed's just reacting to the competition. I cant imagine what would have sparked such a reaction otherwise. There is no NEW factor in play here, he's just jealous. I wouldnt trust him an inch. He cant torture you if you move on. He's got to get you 'hooked' again. I cant believe you care enough to even speak to that man.

Be careful, go slow, let the ants have Ed... - Dru

Kandi,
I told you that you would find someone new. I don't want to say anything else here, but drop me an email.
Michael

What??? It wasnt okay for Ed to make these same statements and rationalizations, but it is okay for Kandi?

In His arms.

No. She is expected to live up to her wedding vows until she is no longer married.

Not divorced = adultery.

Not divorced = adultery. It makes her the same as Ed. And all of her complaints about Ed sleeping around now mean nothing because she has done the same thing.

And thus she divorces the "creep" and then moves on with her life. Not do like Ed did and get someone else while he is still married.

Probably. But not the point here. We are worried about Ed. We are worried about Kandi.

And that coming straight out of the WS Fog Handbook!!

Chapter 34 of the WS Fog Handbook, under the section titled "I'm Entitled."

But she will live knowing that she did the same thing he did. Adultery.

We are lightening up. But we love Kandi and only want the best for her. by not doing the right thing, she has done the same thing as Ed. And now she has no right to look at him and condemn him for his affair...since she has now had her own. Sure, she should probably divorce him. But she has lost any sense of moral high ground here in regards to cheating.

In His arms.

Are you controlled by your impulses or values?

Remember, starting a new relationship before you've finished the other appropriately doesn't work.

Kandi, you are making rationalizations which are no different than the WS saying "Well, I gave the marriage 14 years and it didnt work out...so I was done." No different.

All probably true. Which is why you didnt need an affair to clutter up things as you worked this thru your heart and mind.

I for one am not being nasty, Kandi. You know me...I call them as I see them. And to help you is to give you the truth. Anytime you say "I know it is wrong, but..." you are in a bad place. And we do not want you to be there. We only want the best for you and your kids. And really, Ed also.

We are talking to you Kandi...the same way we talk to every WS...which you now are. You know this stuff. You have helped many on here see wha they need to do. And you know what you need to do. It is okay to go forward with the divorce. It is also okay to try again with Ed, but this time more intelligently. These are YOUR decisions. But an affair does not help you...it only makes things worse. As bad as things have been for you Kandi, we never wanted things worse for you. In the fog, you know that the WS cannot see how bad things are getting due to the euphoria. But they are getting worse Kandi. You must end contact with this guy. The whole route (send the NC letter). Finish your marriage or save it. And take time to heal. The way you have talked about this guy, it will not last. And you WILL wake up and not feel good about yourself if you went out of your marriage like this. You talk about loneliness?? When this happens, you will wish for the loneliness you had before!

You are where Ed has been and probably still is. You are now addicted to the drug of the affair. You know all of this stuff. Do you want out? Do you want to do right, even though it is gonna hurt? You are the only one that can do this...just as Ed was the only one that could get things together on his end.

You cant even think about this until you end the affair. As long as the affair is going on, then you are holding Ed hostage to the affair. "Either he shows me the future, or I will continue on with this guy." Not gonna work out that way, Kandi. I will bet you a year's salary.

You know the drill. You know about fog, addiction, NC, and withdrawal. You have the intel. Now will you overcome your feelings in order to do the right thing?

In His arms.

This is fog babble. You are eiter married or you are not. There is no grey area!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

She's not married, and hasnt been in a long time. She's just waiting on some paper from the state to make it legal in the courts.

Talk about beating a dead horse...

Who says she aint married? Kandi? Well, then Ed said they werent married when he started his affair. Thus Kandi had no right to try to make him live up to his vows...since Ed had decided they were divorced.

You know something, my wife had moved out and had field for divorce. We were two weeks before the hearing, and she was caught having OM over her house. Guess what? The court found that what she was doing was adultery!!! Even though the marriage was "over." Even though we were just waiting on some hearings and paperwork. Even though we had been separated for 4 months. The court found it to be adultery.

And dont get me on what God expects.

Who decides Druscilla? When is a marriage over? When is the line crossed?

In His arms.

Kand:

I know I'll be in the minority but those that Keep Insisting this is the "same" as what Ed Has and IS Doing ........ sorry, just can't Go with that perspective.

Not going to get into a huge debate on the particulars,
but for the record I am neither in an A (nor have ever been) and am not In any type of Fog to be agreeing in principle with Dru.

K:
However,
that is Not to say that I think this is the time or place to be getting involved in another relationship.

Not the best choice (cause timing in life can be everything).
This could be one that comes back to bite you later on.
(Not a certainty ....but definitely a possibility).

With that said:
Please,
Just make sure you actually let the divorce go through this time!

Cause If you had the First time,
you wouldn't be getting all the Static you currently are!

Funny isn't it?
That YOUR delaying what you "KNOW" you should have done (the D) and being the ONE to actually Try (Yet once again) ....is what is getting all this negative reaction towards you Now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

M23B,
I submit that you are doing this for one reason and one reason only: To get Ed's attention and bring him back to you. Nothing else has worked, so now you are playing the great big jealousy card and hoping he will be as hurt as you were and come running back to you.

It's massivly unfair to this new man that you are dating. He is just being used. Does he know the whole story?

For heaven's sake, woman, make a decision! You never act; you simply react. You react to whatever Ed does and now you react to whatever your new man does. You never stand up and decide about anything. You simply float along and wait to see what will happen next. Now you are just as big a fence-sitter as Ed. Where do you think that's going to lead?

If you want to save your marriage to Ed, then drop the new man and continue to Plan B.

If you want to pursue a new and healthier relationship, then drop Ed completely and GET the divorce.

One or the other. You are trying to do both and are still refusing to make a decision.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

I wish you the best. I really do. But this is just about the worst "choice" you could possibly have made. The muck you and your children are stuck in will only get thicker and thicker and thicker.

MAKE A DECISION!
Mulan

I do agree mostly with Mortarman but I do believe that people have to find a way to move on. I'm definitely NOT saying that I think doing what the WS did is the answer. I just think that maybe meeting new people is a good thing. I didn't say "dating"....just knowing that there is life out there after divorce can really help sometimes. My divorce isn't final yet but I have met some really nice men that once I am divorced I may go out with. Trust me..I have made a few mistakes myself. I did end up kissing someone else but ya know what? I stopped myself and we are just friends right now.
I think each person has to decide for themselves.

Who do YOU think decides? Seems to me that Ed decided, then Kandi decided. It's BEEN decided. Paperwork HAS been filed. Neither seem too worried about God, so that point is moot.

I know people recover from this, but they've decided otherwise.

I read that the divorce rate for marriages that occur within two years of one or both partners divorcing is 85%.

Anyone else seen something like this?

GC

They do. They finish getting divorced, and then move on. What would people say to a soldier that said "Hey, I left my unit because I was doen with my enlistment. The paperwork was already in. It was jsut a formality. So, I went ahead and left before the paperwork was singed and approved." Anyone want to say to him "That's alright. The paperwork was in, afterall." Or you wanna tell him that he was a deserter?

Yes, it is...AFTER they are no longer married.

I know what yo uare saying. But read my other thread about Grey Areas on here. I talk about how just meeting people almost turned into adultery for me. All because the paperwork was in and I wanted to start thinking like my foggy wife. Do we really think that WSs are just so much worse than us BSs? Really? Or might it be that they got caught up in something they shouldnt have...they made decisions that they shouldnt have. As a friend told me...there but for the grace of God go I. Boundaries, people. We must keep them.

Dangerous grounds, when we can just all decide whenever we want. I am not bashing you here. Really I am not. But this isnt a grey area. Married or divorced. There is no middle ground.

In His arms.

Yes, it is true.

Kandi, I am sorry for threadjacking. I know you are looking for help here. And I am not upset with you (disappointed...yes). That is why I have started another thread about this.

I do hold by what I said above to you. You know this is wrong (you admitted it). You know the signs. You know the process on how to get out of this mess. So, I am here to help you get out of it, if you want. But I cannot help you feel good about what you have done, because it isnt good.

In His arms.

Dru, how can you say it is Over? Even Kandi has flat out said she doesn’t know.

Quotes by MovingForward (just in this thread):


This doesn’t sound like she has her mind made up to me. I really honestly think that if she would break her addiction to the DRAMA, she might be able to make up her mind and move on. I am not saying this to be cruel, it is just the way I see it. She has become a Player, and I wonder when Mr. Wonderful will figure it out. She is USING him – plain and simple.

Kandi,
I was wondering, be honest, when did this new relationship (A) start...May, June, July...or before? How intrenched is it at this point. How painful a withdrawal will this really be if and when you go NC?

Mortarman...Trust me...I know what you are saying!! I do think it's best for people to wait until the divorce is final. That's why I have decided to only have friends until I'm legally divorced!!!! Everyone has to live with their own decisions. It's a tough road for all of us. I do hope we all find peace within ourselves. :-)

((( Kandi ))) I used the wrong word to get my point across - again. So sorry, it is nothing personal. I have been putting both of my feet in my mouth lately, please forgive me.

Misusing boasting - I meant - joyful. And it is understandable that this man would make you feel joyful, after all you have been through - but it is not right.

Like you were telling us all here, like shouting - I am happy, I am happy. But your happiness with this other man is not right. Not right now.

Please forgive me if you took this the wrong way. Which is probably the actual meaning of the word. Sorry, not intended to be hurtful. Not one bit.

Carnation

Kandi
Please give this some thought. The euphoria you feel right now with the attention from this man, if indeed this is the real thing for the future. Do you want this feeling to be overshadowed in the future by guilt and shame, or by the respecting of yourself cause you stood up and did the right thing for you and your kids throughout this whole ordeal. What are your kids going to remember about you throughout this whole thing? What will they say when you are no longer around? What legacy do you what to leave your kids? They already have their fathers infidelity to deal with and kiddos are smart they will figure things out. What would you encourage one of your boys to do if they were in your position? Please think about the future the long haul not the feeling good at the moment.

Kandi, followed your story from afar, sheesh, who hasn't.

I just want to say, yes this may be wrong, but I don't blame you one little bit. Sorry to those who don't agree, but I'll stand here and take the "blasting" with her.

The way I see it, Ed has burned all of his chances. If he won you back how long would it be before he left again? Its all crap, you've been through ENOUGH!

ROFLMAO!!!! Amen!

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I'm sorry - it seems like you are putting Kandi on the same level as Ed - Ed who cheated and broke up their marriage - Ed who had another child while still married??? There is no way that what she is doing should be remotely compared to what Ed did.

Kandi - it might not be the "right" thing to do but if it is a good thing for you then I hope you are happy. I know after my divorce I found someone who treats me so wonderful and makes me feel so good about myself and it has helped me tremendously - yes I waited until I was divorced but let me tell you if he had shown up before I was I would have jumped at the chance to date him.

Kandi, I would like nothing more than to see you happy and joyful and enjoying a new relationship with a wonderful man who deserves YOU.

I am just sore afraid that putting the cart before the horse will make a nasty, bumpy ride that you can't see right now for the blinders on your eyes.

I think, too, you've gypped yourself in being able to say that while Ed did everything disgusting and immoral that you held the high ground. I am not sure that you realize how much comfort that would have given you in your new life. Now it is meaningless, see?

Another thought: does your mom know about your new man? If not, I think you really have to think about your objectivity that what you are doing is really ok in your mind. It probably isn't. But d*mn if it doesn't feel so good!!!

I'm not judging you or meaning to bring you hurt or harm with my remarks. I hope you know that. You know the score. I just hope you can live with it.

~ Snow

((MF4M))

This kind of jumped out at me. I ain't here to throw any rocks in your parade but I'll offer some of my experience and that statement is one of the most "Fogged" out statements I've ever heard and to be honest I've heard it a million times around addicts. With that, let me just offer the following that I offered on another thread.

Substituting another partner for the emptiness left by the end of your marriage. This almost always leads to atleast one person getting their heart broken. And when that substitute falls by the wayside, guess what, now instead of only grieving the loss of your marriage, you are also left to grieve the loss of the new relationship.

One of the major reasons it is said to wait is because shortly after a break-up and until you've healed, typically you are not in a "healthy" mental state. Therefore, what you see as a healthy relationship is relative to where you are at in the healing process. So entering into what you believe to be a great relationship too soon, will be looked upon very differently as you continue through the process.

I've been on this site long enough to watch many people continue to hurt themselves and others by venturing out too early. I've heard people say "I'm in the heathiest relationship I've ever been in" when dating too early, which may be true, but again once they did heal and looked at that relationship through healthy eye's, they were amazed at what they were settling for....

happyfinally...I agree with you that Kandi meeting this man is nothing like Ed's affair!!!! She has been forced to move on and she is. I'm happy for her too. Ed made the decision to leave and "find" his happiness so now it's her turn to be happy!!!!!
I wish you the best Kandi!!!!!

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Amen and Amen. This is what scares me Kandi. Compared to the Ed of the last 18 months even Satan might seem like a good deal for a new partner!!!

Think this relationship through and maybe take a few steps back for now.

~ Snow

Going out on dates is looking.



I wish you had done an awesome Plan B and protected your love bank instead of engaging more in the drama. A part of me wonders if you had really detached from the situation rather than try to control or manipulate it, well, you might have been able to bring true conclusion to a marraige without the confusion or high of new love.

It was your responsibilty to protect your love bank through the entire duration of your marraige.

It seems like you could argue the morality point to death. Isn't that between her and God one day?
The point I want to make is that you have a lot of healing to do. You have grieving to do when the marriage is finally over for good--when the hope is completely gone.
Your confusion is unfair to the OM. Starting a relationship in that frame of mind will probably guarantee its doom, don't you think?
You stand to grow more as a person on your own. I am here to tell you that carrying over unhealed pain will come back to haunt you.
In a perfect world, you will take time for YOU. You will get to know yourself again as YOU--not a part of a couple. YOu will learn to love yourself and respect yourself again. But, this isn't a perfect world. YOu have a choice to make and you should feel free to make it. Just don't let it be because it is a scary world out there, and you are afraid to go it alone.

Hi, M23B.

You have been through the ringer and played out your last bit of rope until it burned your fingers as you hung on.

Ed is remorseful bc it is CLEAR you are no longer pining in the wings, hoping and praying he will come back - you are no longer his sure thing/back up and he has panicked.

AND like all the literature supports, a little time with the wacko parasite and <BAM!> Suddenly YOU look like the attractive alternative - ESPECIALLY since you're no longer a sure thing!

Me, I think you waited to long on a trecherous, highly self-centered, viciously uncaring, cruel and heartless man. (Should I get off the fence here?) You have given plenty in that regard and none other is warrented, either ethically or morally (I full expect to get whacked for that one)

But I also fulla agree with a few others: despite the fact that you are empty and need attention and affection desperately - in all truth, a little time of true healing - of self-reliance and self-fullfillment - of truely finding yourself and your center.... These will make you the best catch possible AND make whoever you eventually bond with consider you all that more valuable a find!

....who said the comment about even SATAN looking good after Ed??? rotflmao. But really, it's true. Keep that little tidbit in the back of your head, OK?

I will be callous here : F*** Ed.

Restarting

Restarting, with that last comment I must say you are my new hero. You had the stones to say what I only wish I had. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Kandi, Glad you're still reading....

I don’t know if you’re familiar with Dr. Harley’s book Give & Take. It’s his roadmap for having successful relationships. Of course it’s intended for couples; but I have found the principles apply in ALL important relationships.

The concepts in this book are so simple & profound I think it should be required reading for everyone!! (I mean simple – not necessarily easy!)

I’ve taken some parts out of chapter 3 which deal with dating. My wish for you is that you have your eyes wide open as you move forward to your future – this excerpt just gives you an idea of what goes on internally during the dating process.

Give & Take – Page 30 &31 – Edited

Your Shortsighted GIVER & TAKER

It’s tempting to consider the GIVER as our loving and caring nature and the TAKER as our hating and thoughtless nature. But that’s not what they are. Actually, both of them are caring: Your GIVER cares for others, and your TAKER cares for you.

As with many couples, GIVERS are in charge during courtship.

During most successful and extended dating experiences, the partners are reaching out to meet each other’s needs. Selfish desires are regularly overruled in an effort to be thoughtful. Both people are on their best behavior, because they want the relationship to succeed. They’re willing to sacrifice their own interests in order to be more appealing to the other.

It’s as if there’s a meeting in your mind:

TAKER: Hey, there’s someone who could meet my needs. I think I’ll introduce myself. Wait a minute! This is too good to botch. I think I need some help on this one. GIVER, why don’t you introduce yourself?

GIVER: Why should I? That person doesn’t need anything from me. I’d rather help someone in need.

TAKER: Who knows, maybe that person needs something you have to offer. Wouldn’t hurt to ask, would it?

GIVER: Okay, I’ll see if I can help that person.

From that moment on, we tend to put our GIVERS in charge of developing the relationship, recognizing that our TAKERS’ self-centeredness is likely to ruin things. And our GIVERS are usually effective in making the other person happy.

And this is the part that makes it all work: If the one you’re dating does the same thing, putting the GIVER in charge of each encounter, you end up being happy, too. Your TAKER is satisfied with the arrangement, because your GIVER’S care is being reciprocated. There’s no need for your TAKER to meddle. You’re as happy as you’ve ever been.

End of book quote – This entire book talks about GIVERS & TAKERS; why we can’t live indefinitely with our GIVER in charge.

K, especially in your case it’s been so long since you’ve had someone to meet your needs - your TAKER is in control; and honestly I can’t judge your TAKER for doing her job. The problem is that with your TAKER running your show – your setting yourself up for problems down the road. It’s why those of us who care about you are posting.

Honestly, I don’t think I could have done as well as you have with all you have on your plate. And it’s also why I post this – I don’t want to see you suffering more down the road. Get a hold of this book and become knowledgeable about GIVERS & TAKERS. Then at least you’ll know why you’re doing what you’re doing and the blinders are off.

Also, your TAKER has to be happy that Ed knows about this other man & he’s now competing for you. And I think it’s the TAKER who enjoys all the drama – and this new guy certainly ups the drama to a new level!

If that is the case, then why do you say you are undecided and why were you so upset when he said he wanted you back. Are you sure you don't wish you were over him? It sounds to me (sometimes) that you are talking yourself into thinking you are done. That does not mean you take Ed back. I just think you need to work out your feelings about Ed and your M before you start something new with someone else. You need to become strong within yourself, so you do not need any man, but you choose to be with him.

Let's assume this man is really "the one", but the timing is the only issue. What if the turmoil and pain that you have been through with Ed poisons and destroys what you have with this man? You need to work on you. If this man is the right man, then he can wait until you do the work on yourself. If he is the one, you need to be the best you that you can be, so this relationship has the chance it deserves.

I do agree with MM. You are making a lot of rationalizations for your behavior. Just as any WS does. You are not entirely done with this M, or Ed wanting to come back would not have sent you into such a tailspin.




This sounds like a bit a rewriting of marital history. I am sure he made you feel good at some point or you would not have married him.

You do not want to stop because it feels good. That is exactly what WS feel and why it is such an addiction. You do not want to stop, so you are making rationalizations for what you are doing. Own what you are doing if you choose to not stop, do not rationalize it. Ed did not want the M when you wanted to save it. Now, you are not sure you want the M and Ed wants (for now) to save it. Both of you are still married. So, though you have not "hidden" any of this from anyone, does not make it anymore OK. You are at a point that you do not want to fight for the M because you feel you are done. Well, that is no different than what Ed felt.

I know you have been through torture and heartache. But, I do not believe you are over Ed. You need to work through all the pain of your M. And, mourning it if you do divorce. You have a lot of baggage and you need to work on you and what got you here. And, until you do, any relationship you have is going to be doomed to fail.

What if this does not work out with this OM? Are you ever going to look back at this time and wish you had explored this chance with Ed? This may finally what gets his head on straight-- the fear of losing you. You will never know. You can't just up and take him back because it has not worked in the past. It would have to be done in a very specific way, with boundaries and expectations to be followed. It would need to be done very slowly. Anyway, it does not mean you have to take him back, it does not mean you don't even divorce him. But, you have to look into your heart and know that you are OK with giving this chance up. How can you really give it the thought and introspection it deserves if this OM is clouding your thoughts? I do not think you are over your marriage yet, IMHO. I just do not want you to look back with regret. Only you can determine this.

Continue to Plan B until your love is gone or you are able to start recovery. Or, get divorced first, wait 6 mos.-1 year and work on you. If the OM is still around (and you still think he is worth having), than explore that relationship when you are healthier and have stood on your own two feet for a while.

I think this thread is a prime example of the "shift in values" that a person takes when becoming an adulterer.

It doesn't happen over night. It's a slow change of a from a value system based on integrity, to one based on entitlement.

This is how the aliens take over folks. The change is slow, and no one notices, until one morning you wake up and the WS is babbling in a language system you no longer understand.

I was among the first to respond to this thread. I've had the better part of a day to think about and read everyone else's posts. I started thinking about something my Auntie told me.

My aunt found out about my WH about 6 weeks ago. Although I don't know what took so long, she talks to my mom every day. She called and talked to me for almost an hour. Her biggest concern was that I would "do something foolish" before things were worked out between WH and I. 80 year old ladies don't talk about dating and sex but she came close. Auntie is the Avon mogul and pillar of her neighborhood. She knows everything that's going on. She said that whenever she's seen a woman involved with another man before her divorce is final, it's often gets ugly.

I take my auntie's advice to heart. She was married to an alcoholic for 40 years, supported her family at a time when most women didn't, lives in a neighborhood that some people don't even want to drive through and has still triumphed.

Kandi, you have 6 weeks or so to wait until your D is final. In the grand scheme of life, that's not long too to wait. The biggest thing is closure. It's not only earning your way out of a marriage but it's also tying up all the loose ends.

Have you crossed all your t's and dotted all your i's and are truly ready to move on?

Hm... might Ed read this?
(That possibility makes me write down just a few thoughts... and also makes me read your words differently, i.e. 'reading between lines', I guess... and no other way to tell you...)

Revenge is the best if served cold
and it's still very hot...
And playing games bring just temporary "solutions"... if, at all...
180 degree most of times work, but not if you really (really) are not ready within yourself to be what you just act like...

This is no the road to happiness...
And, IMO, you are not there where you want to be, you just force youself to be there... and I understand, the pain is great and everything is better then being there... but you get rid of pain going through it, not 'convincing' yourself you are over...

And... I do wish I were wrong...

PS: Please let me know you read it... to delete/change it... :-)

Good grief. How can this be infidelity??!! I guess under the strickest defintions but really, good lord. We are living in a new century and it doesn't sound like you were sneaking around or hiding it. And besides hasn't your husband gone back and forth many times only to let you down again repeatedly??!! Lighten up folks.

I have only read the first posts on this thread but got to say--take care of you and those kids and if you are dating a nice man--good for you. Doesn't mean he will be everything and rebound relationships and---blah blah blah---I am sure you have heard it all. Might not be the wisest relationship but if it keeps you from going back to someone who continually hurts you, go for it. Maybe this is your declaration of freedom from being hurt over and over again.

Just had to throw my support behind you Kandee.

Tiggy

Tiggy - it's a revenge affair - Kandi is far too hinged to Ed to see her emotional attachment to what the man does has meaning. She is not indifferent. She is not detached. She still swings in the wind whenever Ed blows a new direction. But that's all the man is doing, even now - blowing hot air. He's probably already reconciled with Nurse Hot Lips! (reminds me of Frank Burns, he does! He even looks like him!)

Kandi - You want us to believe your feelings for Ed as a husband are dead. But if you calm yourself from the defensiveness for a while, you'll see that this is exactly the reaction you expected from him upon finding out there was a man to take his place.

Ed's antics now are as sincere as he was on Dr. Phil when talking about saving his marriage. The only thing Ed wants is the world to revolve around him.

It would be the kindest thing in the world you could do for this new man - to cut the puppet strings that yank your chain, and then take some time - a year or two to find out who you are, and find that you can take care of yourself. Then you will have the best you can offer to this man, if he is the man you describe. But please don't use him. And if you can't see it, and he can't see it, doesn't mean that eventually he won't suspect it. He is being used. Ed is getting played back! And Ed knows it, so he's playing along, according to the script of "drama at General Hospital's nursing home wing."

Prayers for your sons, as they are the ones caught in the revolving door of the days of your lives.

Kandi:

For what it's worth, I agree with Grapegirl, KaylaAndy and the rest who are inclined to think along those same lines.

Too much, too soon, too far, too fast and.and.and.and.and. Give the drama a rest. Go out and have a good time with a group of friends. None of this one on one stuff yet.

You don't need a man to "make" you feel ok about yourself. IMHO - that's exactly what's happening.

NUT

Really people! How much does she have to take from Ed before you give her "permission" to give up and move on? How can you have ANY hope that Ed will change his ways?

Are we all so lost that we don't think this man knows what he's getting himself into? Your all acting as if she hiding something from him, good grief. My guess is he's an adult and likes Kandi inspite of some baggage she may bring with her. You know there are mature adult men who are capable of handling that kinda thing.


And as for Kandi "finding herself", what a bag of garbage, really. Kandi's had plenty of alone time to "find herself"
and I think she's had enough of it.


Kandi, you go for it, take it slow though. If this man is what you need to move on from that waste of skin H of yours - head on! You gave your all, You have earned it!

DISCLAIMER: This is NOT advice I would give to anybody but someone who has endured what you have and been S**T on so many times.

Kandi is posting on here to get a variety of responses (am assuming). Don't we all? I'm guessing she is open minded and interested in what each and everyone of us have to say.

So........To each their own!

Belonging..I was just thinking the same thing. That this and other posts are written for Ed.

Kandi will always be the same. She'll take any post that doesn't support whatever she's doing as a personal attack. She's only interested in support.

I feel so sorry for their kids. Look at the examples their parents have set before them. Neither in the end have modeled honoring vows.

I'm still amazed at the people who argue that the marriage is over but for the paper work. Did the marriage begin at sexual encounter, engagement or the ceremony? Just as there is a beginning point, there's an ending point. That point is the paper work.

What if Ed and Kandi reconcile (which might happen as I think they're both several bricks short of a load) then how would this relationship be characterized? I would expect such a response from someone who hadn't experienced the searing pain of adultery, but to get it from the horse's mouth is mind boggling... Would they have appreciated a confidant of their WS supporting the affair by saying "it's not wrong because the marriage is over but for the paper work?"

Just as Belonging, while reading the thought kept coming to my mind that this was a manipulation of Ed. I kept wondering if this man even exists. Whether he does or doesn't, this is something that Kandi will have to account for herself. It does no good to try to convince her that a relationship with this man or making this man up to manipulated Ed is wrong..she'll do what she wants to do no matter how insane...

***the thought kept coming to my mind that this was a manipulation of Ed. I kept wondering if this man even exists.***

I thought precisely the same thing, jph.
Mulan

Hey there girly girl !!!!

You know...you and I go WAY back. And we became sisters by fire....we shared DDAYS practically, and have A LOT in common.

My journey went ONE way...YOURS went another. Neither road was easy, and it was pretty much paved in [censored].

None the less... I gotta love your stamina. Most of these same people that are beating you up now, are the SAME folks that beat you up for trying to make it work with Ed in the first place. ROFLMAO !!!!!!!

As you may or may not have noticed, I'm around these parts VERY rarely, but will keep in touch via email with you.

Do yourself a favor...cut some more of your losses, and steer clear of all this wonderful, moral support you're getting here.

JUDGE NOT LEAST YOU BE JUDGED.

Kandi.... my wish for you always...is be happy, that's all I wish for you. And NOBODY knows what will make YOU happy...but YOU. Your life, your future, are your own.

Will it work out ?

Maybe, maybe not, I'm not throwing any stats at you...in all honestly...who gives a rat patooty....for TODAY...you are happy, you feel appreciated, and cared for, and RESPECTED....AND IT'S BEEN A LONG DANG TIME SINCE YOU FELT THAT AND YOU DESERVE IT.

If it works , it works, if it don't, well it doesn't...but you enjoy yourself along the way.

Or....take some of the great advice you're getting here, and cry some more in your soup and pity party....Good Grief...life goes on.

I guess you just haven't bled enough for some of these fine folks.

Enjoy.... email me !!!

Kandi,

This is NOT about Ed. It is about your and YOUR morals. It is about you and what marriage means and you expect it to mean to the next man in your life. You are way to damaged right now to be getting serious about another man, or even Ed.

Get the divorce, heal for some months and THEN see where you are. You are going to hurt this man you claim is so good, and you are going to hurt yourself. When you are afraid of the future, you should not face it by jumping into another relationship. It will hurt your kids, you, and yes your future.

Please think about this, a lot of the reasons one should not date while married and you are married, based not just in religion, but in the reality of how human's function. You are hurt, your vulnerable, and you are blind to many things right now. That is why marriage vows and waiting until the marriage is fully and legally done with is a good thing for you and your kids.

God Bless,

JL

If you will remember back this is not the first time she has drug a man into the picture to keep the pot stirred and manipulate Ed. I believe it was an old boyfriend last time. I really don't care enough to go searching.

I am not even debating the right or wrong of dating yet, but I really hate to see these guys get caught up in THEIR sick games. I know they are grown men. Most of all, it is the boys that are being forced to live this tragedy that have my utmost sympathy.

I have to say I agree with betrayedNJersey.....
Live your life Kandi and do what you feel is right for YOU!!

In all honesty there is no need for y'all to fret about motive or manipulations.

I'm sure it will be aired on another Dr. Phil episode...keep those TVs tuned in. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

committed

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I think there is no doubt at this point that Kandi is legally married. Whether she's emotionally married, that's up for her to decided. In order to move to another relationship, she needs to be a) legally out of her marriage and b) mentally able to move on. It's not just earning your way out of a marriage but working through all of the stages. Then you can be ready for the next relationship.

For another thing, I feel sad that Kandi is not taking advantage of the growth situation offered her. One can live without a man, a big house and a fancy car. One can have great friends and group activities. Learn to date again. Try to be independent. Try all the different things you always wanted to do. The right material possessions don't make for happiness. Believe me, this is something I've been thinking a lot about. I'm going to come out of this a very different person than I was before. I want a little time, alone and relationship-free, to figure the new me out.

It's not fair to dis Kandi about what she wants and gets from this forum. We're all here for support. We all want to hear what we want to hear. Most of us get alot out of this board. Sometimes, we're like little [censored] teenagers and have our moments. I appreciate the people who've been through the long, dark tunnel and still come back here to help us deal with our individual messes. Is this topic a powerplay for Ed's attentions? Joyfulness? Bragging? Or just moving on a bit too soon? I suppose I'd have to read each post more carefully to discern that.

Good luck MF4M, don't let all this scare you away.

To Racer X and anyone else cheering this on......


You are all confusing the issues greatly.

This isn't about Ed, what he does, or does not do.

It also isn't about whether or not Kandi is done with this marriage.

I speak from personal experience and from all the BS's that have been through the same thing.

Kandi has work to do on Kandi, that is the point.

Every day spent getting involved with another is only setting back her growth. Nevermind that she is still legally married.

Kandi...this is for you...with the utmost respect I am saying you are not you. Does that sound funny? You aren't you and you haven't been you for a long time. The you that used to exist doesn't anymore and now is the time to find that person. I say that having passed through the same road you are on. Your world has been to topsy turvy and it's been so long since Kandi mattered to Kandi.

I know you probably think you are different, I did too. I wasn't and neither are you.

What you are getting is just a big helping of attention, makes you feel wanted again doesn't it? Feels good to know somebody could be interested right?

Somebody will be in 6 months too, or a year Kandi.

Please don't justify this...it just turns all the stuff you did, all the work you did, all the suffering you did into nothing more than a front....because no matter what you are doing is still an affair, secret or not Kandi.

Chris is right when he says that to people, he said it to me and I did what you are doing now, justified and made excuses...but in the end he was right, I got to delay my personal growth and mourn the loss of my marriage and relationship all at the same time.

A triple whammy of epic proportions...to realize the marriage is truly gone, GF gone, owning up to cheating on my wife even though like you the D was only a month away(meaning dating before marriage was officially over, I'm the BS)...and back to day one of recovery.

Perspective Kandi...that is what I am trying to pass along...experience and perspective

Good Luck

I'll email you, just in case you've heeded my advice and skiddaddled out of here...but I'm doing just dandy thanks.

I'm not going into much detail, rehashing that same old stuff, x amount of days since DDAY, x amount of months into recovery, I realized long ago, that if I let this place consume me, like it has countless others, than I'd be standing around counting too many damned days, and not really living them..... get me ?

Disrespectful judgements flying all over the place, served up for dessert, with a little left over for breakfast. I'm glad to see such a strong following of Harley's principals on his own website <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

For a whole lot of people that have never met you, they sure know what your future holds.

A lot of people are forgetting that EVERYONE is different. EVERYONE has their own timeline to deal with everything. It's like the death of a loved one, some mourn one way, some mourn another, but do you criticize someone for not mourning the same way you would ? Isn't this the same principal ???????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

p.s. it's not what I'd call a cult... but there IS a another word I'm thinking of.... chat at ya soon.

I don't think you have been reading the bulk of the posts very carefully. I don't think any of them said you should have Ed move back in or not go through with the DV.

It is sad that you can't really hear the care and concern the majority of the posters have for you Kandi. You have adopted a defensive attitude instead of a receptive attitude.

JL summed up what the majority of the general philosophically correct MB advice has been. But I am afraid you just can't hear it. Sad.

We ultimately want the best for you and family.

OK if so <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

How so?

RM, I am in no way "cheering this on"

I would hope Kandi could move on without Ed and spend some time alone for clarity. What your missing here is how impossible that is for some people. There are people in our world who hate being alone. I am one of them. Personally, I don't think thats such a bad thing. The pull of love from another person is so strong that it's impossible to avoid.

You see, this fear of being alone allows Ed to manipulate Kandi. When he blabbers and spews all the words of manipulation she buys it because what she needs more than anything is to be a part of that union.

SOOOO, IMO what we have here is a choice. Kandi can continue being manipulated Ed (I think we could both agree this won't end when the D is final) OR someone else can pull her to the other side.

I'm of the opinion that Ed is WAY beyond hope. What Ed has put her through is abuse beyond any I have ever seen. I see OM as her ONLY way to be free of him for good.

Kandi, you do have support no matter how these posts read. A few of us have stepped up and had the stones to voice our opinions. But I suspect (looking at the number of views) that what speaks bigger is the people who HAVEN'T replied for fear of not being PC/MB correct.

Good for you who have HAD the stones and speak up for her!

Kandi,

Wow your posts sure do bring out the posters. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As we chatted before I told you that I would respect your decision and I still mean it. As a friend it hurts me to see you suffering so and want you t/b happy. As an MBer, I want you to make a good plan for your future and work through your issues 1st and your future 2nd. In that order.

Now here is where the paths cross. Sometimes your futre comes before your issues are completed. This can make your life complicated.

My suggestion: Simplify your life. Make a plan.

If this new guy is that great, he will work with your plan and it will be a good test of your future R. It will also give you the time you need to step back and see where Kandi really wants to go.

As varied as these posts are, the one common thread I see is that all want you t/b happy. Most realize we can't help Ed be happy because Ed still wants t/b a WS. Until Ed heals himself, he w/b as he is. You though have a choice to move forward.

All your previous MB experience and all the other good things you have learned in life can now be used in real life. Make the changes to keep you moving forward.

You want the right man for you and you want t/b the right woman for him. Regardless of when you meet him it will not only be right but the R will have the time and the patience to do the right thing.

I think you said that but maybe some of us are not hearing it, right? I certainly understand how you can be feeling but also know the dangers it can bring.

Remember in the A a WS often does not have control of their feelings but as a BS we know how important it is to have control of our feelings in order to keep a level head and do what we need to do.

The D will require a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience. Ed it appears will continue to test you so you will need the same for him.

Your R will look like an oasis, a haven from all the turbulence from Ed, the D, the OC and the A. That's just 1 aspect of your life. Chaos will still happen in other parts and yes, you have to be ready to handle that also.

So when you feel like you are unwanted or no one cares, it is nice to have 'firends' to help you through. It is nice to have people that care.

Right now it probably w/b good if that 'special guy' c/b one of those caring friends. In a safe place, put your R with him in a general category. It w/b a good test for your R and give it the time to be strengthened. Then as you emerge from all the drama with the D and continue to deal with the chaos from Ed, OC, OW, etc., you will have a strong R to help balance your load and you w/b giving a good R in return to all your friends. At that time, some of your friends will step back since your emergency will have subsided but that special friend will begin to shine since then it w/b his time to step up and into your life in a more permanent place.

This stuff takes time Kandi. I know you know this.

Hugz,
L.

It doesn't take balls to voice ones opinion on this matter one way or the other. And what the heck does the number of views got to to with anything? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I'll claim a couple dozen of those. I am far more interested in the responses to such a situation than I am to M2's continuing saga.

M2 seemed to think this was some amazing statistic also.



What's insane is that a person could actually thrive on this kind of attention. What's insane is the double standard that many MBers hold regarding infidelity.

The bottom line is that M2 is no longer faithful to her husband. Period. Her excuses are no more valid than his.

Same old WS justifications we hear from EVERY WS. Ed could have said the same things she did.

Kandi, you may be done with the marriage, but the marriage isnt done with you. Just as it wasnt done with Ed. Thus, you sunk to Ed's level and have no moral high ground anymore.

Just as Ed will, you will stand before the Lord and account for YOUR adultery. You cant get around that...especially since you are not sorry for it. You didnt just sin against Ed (because really, he is a jerk and who cares, right?). You are sinning against God. And you seem to not care.

Good luck though. I do mean that.

In His arms.

BR, absolutely correct!!

In His arms.

Adultery is adultery, no matter what FLAVOR it is!! Cant get around that.

In His arms.

Nope. You dont have to take blame for splitting up the family. You do have to take blame for committing adultery Kandi. I am so disappointed in you. You could have got out of this with the moral high ground and gotten everything you deserve. Unfortunately, God wont be mocked. He set the rules...you broke them. And you arent sorry for it. That is a recipe, as Pep would put it, for a major butt whooping from the Lord!

no way to avoid it Kandi...except thru repentence. And repentence means asking forgiveness and then turning from your sin. You are neither sorry and have said that you wont turn from your sin.

I feel so bad for you, for the OM and your family. I know this is not over with. You only see the fantasy. And it is fantasy because you didnt do it right. And you KNEW better.

Unfortunately, the time will come where I will be able to say "I told you so." And I wont be happy about it because I do really care for you and your family.

In His arms.

You are either divorce or you are married. There is NO middle ground. If there was, then no BS could ever be upset with the WS because all they did was draw the line at a different spot.

Married or divorced. If you are married, and have a relationship with another...it is adultery. EVERYTIME!!

Enforce the boundaries, folks. Or marriage...and this site...mean nothing.

In His arms.

She can give up. She can move on. She can get divorced. She cant move on until she is divorced. That is adultery and makes her no different than Ed. No different than any other WS. Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

In His arms.

This is the most misquoted and misunderstood passage in the Bible. God does not say that we shouldnt judge. He actually says the opposite...that Christians should judge...but not judge hypocritically.

I hate when Scripture is taken out of context.

In His arms.

As usual...JL speaks the truth.

In His arms.

Oh my God...that is exactly what WSs do. this society is falling apart with ideas like this. Do what feels right?!?! Sheesh!

How about just doing right!

In His arms.

A cult?? Now I KNOW she is in the fog.

In His arms.

GG, yes...we are here to support Kandi. And I am. But we are not here to support adultery, nor wrong behavior. We should never do that. It does not help Kandi.

In His arms.

I have huge stones!! And I am speaking up for Kandi. Just wish she would see the truth.

In His arms.

Very true!!

In His arms.

I want to thank everyone for your support and let you know I appreciate it from every view point...I have been "on my own" now since March 2, 2004...approx 17 months...I shoul dhave filed for divorce long ago, but because of my big heart I wanted to make sure I tried everything to give this marriage the chance I felt it deserved...Looking back now, I realize Ed had no intentions of ever making it work...he would come home only to leave again...I received an email from him last week..here is an excerpt from it:

I am not waiting for you, we are done. Try not to put all your eggs in one
emotional basket. You may get burned. there are lots of players out there
remember Robert? He swept a woman off her feet while she was getting
divorced, she ate it up. Now he is with someone else.
When I get my place I will be happy to keep the kids as much as they want
and you will allow above the court requirements. Those boys love me and I
love them.
OW and I are fine I love her. We never broke up I just had some
control issues. Yes it was not about love, I would have left again. You can
thank me later for getting us out of this bad marriage before it was too
late for us.
keep me informed through email about kids activities. Be a good mother.
We need to work to coparent thes boys remember that. I am always going to be
their daddy and they know that. They are too grown up not too regardless of
who you bring home. As you are thier mom.
You moving on has helped me break the cycle of
feeling guilty and finally freed me to enjoy my life fully. I am happy and
have been. I have always loved OW just guilt over our failing marriage
and all the wasted energy and resources would draw me back to try and force
it to work but I could not.

The court has given him a visitation schedule of every 1st, 3rd and 5th weekend of the month...last weeked was the 5th...this was the 1st...the boys waited for him until 2:00 on Saturday for him to pick them up...I finally called him and asked if he had planned to pick his kids up...he said no, I had them LAST weekend...I reminded him of the schedule and he said that "I have plans" he then said he would see what he could work out...he called back and told me he would get them in an hour and bring them home 5 hours later and that I "better be home on time" He took them to eat, to a pawn shop and to the toy store to buy more toys to bring home to my house...he told DS9 that if the game he bought at the pawn shop did not work, that mommy was to take it back..it didn't work...I had HIM take it back...

I have asked him to please not take the kids into pawn shops, but he insists he can do what he likes...I have also asked him not to buy the kids toys each time he sees them..again he can do as he wishes...which is fine by me...however, the toys be buys for them will be going into a box from now on for him to keep at his new place...

I am putting this new relationship on hold until my divorce is final...If it is meant it will be...he does not want to complicate things for me...I have no intentions of reconciling with Ed...if I did at this point, it would only be for financial reasons...

i look back on my 14 year relationship with him and now realize I was an emotionally abused wife...I think of all the times he was sooo impatient with me for just going to the bathroom in public and taking a bit too long cuz the line was long...I would hear ****** when I got out of the bathroom..."what the he!! took you so long" his hands would go up in the air and I would cower as to not get yelled at...

The kids and I are doing really well...we have a routine down and school starts next week..my dad's 68th birthday was yesterfday...it was a hard day...that is the last "first" we have to get thru...

Right now, I am going to focus on myself and my children...

we go back to mediation in Sept...and hopefully be able to finalize it then...He is not following court orders as far as paying CS goes or even visitation...he is always late..

anyway, thanks for your support and all the advice...I doubt I will be back posting anymore, but will read and lurk...thanks to all!

Kandi,

I am glad that the nightmare is ending for you! I know this has been a rough and chaotic 17 months. You now will have your whole life ahead of you. I wish you only the best.

In looking at the post from Ed, it did validate much of what I was saying.
By you having a relationship with the OM, he now no longer feels guilty because you really have done as he did. I know you didnt intend that. I know you gave this all of your effort. You never deserved the crap he dished out to you. I just wish you could have left this intact, and that the guilt would stay where it belongs...with Ed.

But now to the future. I am glad you have put things on hold with the OM. And are concentrating on finishing out this marriage. You will be glad you have done this.

I hope you do stick around and let us know how things go with you, as we all have enjoyed having you around.

So, if not...I will just say good luck and trust the Lord for everything.

In His arms.

MF4M, thank you for sharing your story. You have done everything you could and that really matters. Your kids will know that and appreciate it. You are and will always be their super mommy.

Good luck and wish you all the happiness you deserve.

thank you for giving me your full support! I have had a very emotional evening...I have cried non stop since about 5:00...I dont know what my future holds, but I do know it does not include this man that I claimed to be my husband for so many years of my life...the man I travelled the world with...the man I brought three children into this world with...

I dont know if my future holds a place with this "new man" in it...

I receieved two emails from Ed today...he has been reading here and has identified my new username...hence the deleted posts by me...I will not go into details about what the emails said..however I will also not allow this man to control my life any longer...I am a grown woman...I will not do anything "stupid"...

School starts next week for the kids, and two weeks later for me...I am looking forward to finishing my degree..although I would stil love to finish it in Criminal Justice as that is where my passion is, however I must think of my kids and being a single parent...the CJ field is very intense and long hours...so I will be starting over with an Education degree..I'll be the oldest "college" student on campus...but hey, I'll the most mature one as well!

I have a very good friend that is here for me thru thick and thin...she has been here throughout the night for me to cry to...

I am not sure why today has been so emotional for me...maybe everything is falling into place...I dont know...my feelings for this "new man" are rearing it's soul and that scares me...however, i believe in my heart if it is meant to be it WILL be...

Maybe in two, three, four months from now, I can come back with an update that you can support...I made a decision tonight to go "back to" church...I was very heavil active in church before March 2, 2004 when my world as I knew it came crumbling down on me...I quit going immediately upon finding out about Ed's affair...I felt very guilty about it...now, I think it is time to return...I knew that I would go back when I felt the time was right...now it is the right time...

anyway, I have been here a long time now...I have seeen many new names come and go...ya'll have watched me from my very first post as momto3boys and saw me on TV...many of you supported me and many of you hit me with 2 x 4's...I didn't take too kindly to those 2 x 4's at the time...but over the course of many months/year it finally sunk in...

I never tried to manipulate any of you if that is what you think...I always took your advice to heart...sometimes it takes people a while to "get it"...I was one who wanted so badly to "save" a marriage that wasnt' even there...it never was...

That all being said...it is not safe for me to post here any longer...I have a bitter divorce going on...I know i am an excellent mother...I know I was a good wife...Whatever I have posted here today, yeterday, last week, last month or last year was NEVER intended for him to read...I used this board as a support system which really helped me thru my most troubling of times..

You guys have helped me thru more than you can even imagine...the A, the OC, my fathers death, going on national TV <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> and now my divorce...

I have made many unique friends here...I have got to get on with my life now and say goodbye to MB...i am not sure why I am such an emotional wreck righ tnow...but I am nonetheless...maybe after my divorce is finalized I can come back here and give an update...thanks for the support...even to those who have learned to hate me along the way! I still respect your opinions!

Kandi,

I am glad life is finally moving on to the next chapter for you and I wish you well in life and in your studies. You have been through alot.

and I am glad you have decided to wait the few months for the divorce is final before getting into anything with this new man. It will be better for everyone involved, including your kids <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> as you will be teaching them what Ed won't be able to teach - the right thing.

You are a strong woman and deserve happiness and I wish all that to you and your family,

God bless

Oh my Kandi,

I am realizing more and more about your M. I was once in a R with a man who never seemed happy with me or the things I did (and he later cheated on me). I never realized how jumpy I was and how much I TRIED to please him until I was out of the R. It was was as though he was working out some sort of angst on ME. I told him I was tired of being his whipping boy...

I am VERY sensitive to negative comments and eye rolls, exasperated looks, etc. And what has become clearer to me is why the posters bothered you so much...you are equally sensitive. You have been dancing the bullets so long, you don't know which way to move, and posters are giving you advice ALL over the place, you don't know which direction to turn.

What is sad now, is ALL the energy you have spent into this M, and ignoring yourself...and how Ed ignored you too. Who are YOU Kandi? What do YOU want...you people pleaser...
You are a GREAT person...time for healing, anger, building yourself up...

Do me a favor? Ask your friend to tell you all the wonderful things about YOU!!!

Kandi -
I hope you still are lurking and see this. . .

Good luck with your future. You seem like such a great person and you really deserve happiness. I was glad to see your posts about the new guy (As for Ed and all the people who came down on you about having such a relationship - screw them!) - you sounded so happy and refreshed in those posts! I thought if I were in your sitch that would probably be exactly what I needed too -- a little breath of fresh air!

About these emails for Ed . . . just further prove of his confused way of thinking and attempts to manipulate people. And the fact that he spends time lurking on here -- get a real life, Ed.

Anyway, Kandi, I just wish you the best! Good luck with school - for you and the boys.

Beth

Kandi
It must have hurt you so much for your H to say he always still loved the OW. Please realize that is a manipulation--b/c he is jealous. He still wants to hurt you in order to keep you engaged. Your pain must in some part be b/c you realize is HAS to be over. As long as he wants to continue to emotionally abuse you, you cannot stay or work on the marriage. I just want to say though, that you have not really been on your own until the M is really over. You do need time alone after the M is over to work on yourself and the damage all of this has done to you. YOu don't want to take all of your pain into another relationship. It is so hard to truly be alone.

Thank you!

yes, he has said many things that I have never heard before...I will not go into any details...Let's just say, I now know what it is supposed to be like...and I feel very sorry for Ed's OW...unless he learns to treat her better than he treated me, which for his sake I hope he does...

dont worry about me...I am happy...I am happier now than I have been is a very long time...yesterday was a very hard day...I will not allow him to threaten or beat me down the way he has...nuff said...

I'll be back...and I'll still lurk and if something jumps out I will respond...just wish me luck and pray for me...thank you!

Wishing all the best for you and your boys.

I am a WW and a BW, and what concerns me about Kandi is that to be finding your self worth in another person is just like having an A. Also, remember, almost every relationship starts off perfect. PLease be careful. I am getting a D, sadly, but I am seeing how I have turned to someone else as an escape. It is so dangerous--even if you are not married at all....