Marriage Builders
Posted By: 2Bnormal MelodyLane - 03/15/06 06:58 PM
Quote
MelodyLane,
I am honestly seeking an answer here. I really want to understand how you interpret your own post.

I respectfully would like a reply from you on my questions.

Thank you.

Quote
posted by MelodyLane
No thanks.

MelodyLane,
Since you closed your original thread, I have posted this here.

I respectfully asked for a reply. The post in question was directed to me and I would honestly like a reply.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/15/06 07:07 PM
Did you not see my reply? Here is the link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=3
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/15/06 07:11 PM
OK. You certainly have a choice to not reply.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/15/06 07:12 PM
Quote
OK. You certainly have a choice to not reply.

I believe I did reply: TWICE.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/15/06 08:40 PM
No, I mean to my original questions that I was seeking an answer to. Saying "no thanks" does not answer my questions that I asked you. It only tells me that you do not want to answer my questions. It's OK Mel...you don't need to answer my questions.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/15/06 08:56 PM
I'm glad you think it's "ok." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/15/06 08:59 PM
Quote
I'm glad you think it's "ok." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: sundog Re: MelodyLane - 03/15/06 08:59 PM
FFS 2BNormal, please just let it go. That was her reply.
Posted By: betrayedinjersey Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 12:02 AM
2B ...

I only lurk in these parts anymore...but have been reading some of the back and forth ..

Something I learned LONG LONG ago..... and I think you'll "understand" ...where I'm going here...and it may help you "fare" better on this site....

All of the Mods here....are posters ... they post....under DIFFERENT names...than they MOD with.....

Got me?

Take care.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 12:06 AM
bij, surely you aren't trying to imply that *I* am a mod? That would be very misleading if you are.
Posted By: heartmending Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 06:41 AM
I've been trying to figure out what about your comments and questions push my buttons. Everything always seems logical, seems to make some sense, but ends up in circular arguements, in power plays, with you getting that last stab in. I knew I'd had those feelings before. Then it struck me. It's "crazy making" talk. It's the kind of comments, arguments, attacks, that are typical of addicts and alcoholics. It brought back those memories of my exWS before he got into Recovery, and when he was having his affair. It's "Dry Drunk" behaviors!!

I do believe that my sanity is coming back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 12:33 PM
Quote
I've been trying to figure out what about your comments and questions push my buttons. Everything always seems logical, seems to make some sense, but ends up in circular arguements, in power plays, with you getting that last stab in. I knew I'd had those feelings before. Then it struck me. It's "crazy making" talk. It's the kind of comments, arguments, attacks, that are typical of addicts and alcoholics. It brought back those memories of my exWS before he got into Recovery, and when he was having his affair. It's "Dry Drunk" behaviors!!

I do believe that my sanity is coming back! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How rude and obnoxious of you to say so. But, I think perhaps it's the LOGIC and REASON that bothers you, because I have noticed that you use a high level of feeling and emotion in your posts, which is the antithesis to a reasoned argument. You value nice, empty words over straightforward truths and "think" with your emotions, rather than reason and logic. That is probably why I find your posts so vacuous. But, it really does take all kinds, doesn't it? What appeals to one person may not appeal to another, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 01:34 PM
heartmending, I find it astonishing that a self-professed "counselor" would take a cheap shot about someone's alcoholism just to get in a hateful dig. [21 years sober] That about beats anything I have ever seen on this forum on the vindictive and nasty scale and speaks volumes about the kind of person you are. I find it frightening that you really counsel people.
Posted By: SillySillyGirl Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:03 PM
I do not post very often as you can tell by my number of posts.
But I do read here every day.

I tend to agree with what heartmending said.

Melody Lane, how can you possibly justify your behavior on this now locked thread?
(That YOU started for sfjaj)

You treated 2BNormal similarly but I can't find that
thread; maybe she can post it here since she has a question
for you.

Melody, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM and YOU NEED HELP.

CLICK HERE: Melody's thread to sfjaj
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:10 PM
My thread:
Exposing a Past Affair

This was the post I was referring to on the thread:
Quote
Posted by MelodyLane:
Thanks toprope, great post. And no, I am not "vindictive" I am disgusted and outraged at the shallow cruelty and thoughtlessness I see on this thread. Moral cowardice pisses me off almost as much as intellectually insulting rationalizations.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:13 PM
Quote
Melody, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM and YOU NEED HELP.

sillygirl, the one who has a problem here is YOU. I am doing quite fine actually. Appreciate your concern for me, though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:16 PM
Quote
My thread:
Exposing a Past Affair

This was the post I was referring to on the thread:
Quote
Posted by MelodyLane:
Thanks toprope, great post. And no, I am not "vindictive" I am disgusted and outraged at the shallow cruelty and thoughtlessness I see on this thread. Moral cowardice pisses me off almost as much as intellectually insulting rationalizations.

2BNormal, why not explain what your big issue is with that post? I thought it was a pretty clear overview of the sickening rationalizations I saw on that thread. It seems I have really hit a nerve with you by that comment. So what gives?
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:22 PM
MelodyLane,
The BIG issue I have is that you went on an on yesterday how you do not bash but only disagree.

This post I quoted was a direct bash at me and you attacked my character. This kind of treatment will not be tolerated by me. YOU may disagree with what I had to say on my thread, but the treatment you gave me was uncalled for.

You not only attacked my character but also attacked sfjaj's character by your words.

I am only asking you to examine your words as the words you posted to me were not helpful in any way. I asked you to explain how your words were helpful to me, but you refuse to answer my question.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:30 PM
Wow Mel, you sure do inspire some strong feelings!

Melody used to push my buttons -- big time! And do you know why? Because I was a very foggy WS. And its almost impossible to fight her clear logic. Its like shining a spotlight through the fog. And its makes us WS very uncomfortable. No bull****, she just speaks the truth directly and clearly.

However, now that I have regained my sanity -- I always agree with the advice she gives. I have never seen her give advice that is not in line with the MB principles.
She is invaluable to this forum! And I hope some of the people she has helped will speak up about it.

I think what is going on here is a couple of still foggy WS's can't fight the logic, so they want to make it a personal battle instead.

I sure hope a few with 3 digits of posts won't run off someone with 5 DIGITS in their posts! I know Mel's a tough one, so she probably doesn't need me fighting her battles. But if a line is being drawn, I want to be on her side!
Posted By: Lady_Clueless Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:30 PM
Well, the objection to Melody has indeed turned to cheap shots against her.

Melody is forthright and quite blunt, which is often needed by foggy posters. I think the issue that some of y'all are having is that you're afraid she might actually be (gasp!) RIGHT, and you don't want her to be.

It seems to me that some of you are of the opinion that if she agrees with your "advice", she should take it to another thread.

Well, the problem with that idea is this: If she does not step in to point out harmful and/or non-MB advice on the original thread, the poster who is being given the harmful advice may not see the alternative and MB-based advice on another thread.

We can all share opinions and what works for us, but newbies who are not yet recovered giving advice to another newbie is sort of like the blind leading the blind.

Oh, and BTW, withholding the truth about an affair to "protect your spouse" is extremely disrespectful to your spouse. I agree that the OMW or OWH should be told about the affair, so that she/he can protect herself/himself.

How would you feel if you learned that the OMW died of AIDS, due to her spouse continuing to cheat after he finished with you? Especially, when a word from you could have given her the information needed to protect herself.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:31 PM
2BNormal, since I WROTE the words, I hardly need to examine them. Those words were not "bashing;" they were TRUE. If you murder someone and I say that you are a "murderer," is that "bashing?" Of course not, it is a TRUE FACT. And that post was not delivered with the intent of "being helpful to 2BNormal" but as an expression of MY THOUGHTS. [of course, one could argue that the truth is always helpful, regardless of whether someone finds that "helpful"] All posts do not revolve around you.

So, I am sorry you have an "issue" with that, but that is your issue alone.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:39 PM
Thank you so much, Lexxy and LadyClueless! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I do tend to piss off the foggier ones, huh? I seem to have a knack for that; its part of my charm. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:41 PM
I am not a "foggy" WS. I am well recovered and can see pretty clearly the uncalled for treatment I received from MelodyLane.

As posted by the moderator at the top of this forum, we are to respect each other's opinions. My opinion was "not respected".

If you all see otherwise that MelodyLane's post I quoted in my earlier post was respectful to me, then I guess you all like this kind of uncalled for treatment from her.

MelodyLane, we are never going to agree. Please refrain from posting to me in the future. I don't need your thoughts if you are going to treat me as you do.

Thank you.
Posted By: myschae Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:47 PM
Let's analyze this logically, shall we?

Quote
I've been trying to figure out what about your comments and questions push my buttons.

Assertion: She's been trying to figure out why your comments bother her.

Quote
Everything always seems logical, seems to make some sense, but ends up in circular arguements, in power plays, with you getting that last stab in. I knew I'd had those feelings before. Then it struck me. It's "crazy making" talk. It's the kind of comments, arguments, attacks, that are typical of addicts and alcoholics. It brought back those memories of my exWS before he got into Recovery, and when he was having his affair. It's "Dry Drunk" behaviors!!

Conclusion:

The above is not a logical argument. It's an explanation. It follows the form "X because Y" and therefore assumes the result and works backwards.

It wasn't asserted to be a logical argument. It can't be treated as a logical argument because it's not valid as a logical argument. It's simply an explanation of an anectdotal experience.

If we were using logic, then this would be a combination of the Ad hoc fallacy and anecdotal evidence fallacy. However, this statement does not appear to be attempting to establish a definite proposition aside from the opinion of the author and thus an explanatory tone is to be expected and accepted. (ie. we can resonably conclude that the above statment is indeed the opinion of the author. It's validity outside of that opinion is unknown and unasserted.)


Part II:

Quote
How rude and obnoxious of you to say so

Not an argument. Once again, we can conclude this is the opinion of the author. It's validity outiside of that opinion is unknown and unasserted.

Quote
But, I think perhaps it's the LOGIC and REASON that bothers you,

Assertion: Logic and reason bother the original poster, heartmending.

This looks like the beginning of a Straw Man argument since the original poster, heartmending, never indicated that logic or reason in general was troublesome for him/her. It might also be an example of the fallacy Circulus in demonstrando (the premise appears to be a conclusion the author is attempting to reach), a red herring (an irrelevant argument that is used to distract), or a simple non sequitor (a conclusion drawn from a premise that is not connected to it).

Let's see,

Quote
because I have noticed that you use a high level of feeling and emotion in your posts,

This is anecdotal evidence. No necessarly invalid as it relates to the opinion of the author.

Quote
which is the antithesis to a reasoned argument

Premise: High levels of feeling and emotion is(are) the antithesis of a reasoned argument.

Possible logical fallacies:

Red Herring - an irrelevant argument that is used to distract.

Affirmation of the consequent - arguments of the form "A implies B is true, therefore A is true." I'm sure we're all aware that anything false implies a true across an implication so that fallacy here should be obvious. (The consequent in this case being that there are high levels of emotion or feeling.)

Vacuous argument - no proof is offered the high levels of feeling or emotion are, in fact, the antithesis of a reasoned argument. Perhaps, the author here, Melody Lane, is referring to the various logical fallacies in the Appeal to Emotion category( Appeal to consequences, appeal to fear, appeal to flatter, appeal to pity, appeal to ridicule, appeal to spite, or wishful thinking). This is suspiciously audiatur et altera pars (not bothering to state all the assumptions used to construct an argument).

Quote
. You value nice, empty words over straightforward truths and "think" with your emotions, rather than reason and logic.

Possible logical fallacies:

Petitio principii - the premise is at least as questionable as the conclusion.

Non sequitur - the premise is not logically connected with the argument.

Non cause pro cause - something has been identified as the cause of an event that is not been shown to be the cause of the event:

I've noticed you use a lot of emotion and feelings in your posts.

You value nice, empty words over straightforward truths and "think" with your emotions, rather than reason or logic


Quote
That is probably why I find your posts so vacuous.

Simple opinion, we can assume it's valid for the author, Melody Lane, but make no assumptions about it's validity or truthfulness otherwise.

Conclusion:

Quote
But, I think perhaps it's the LOGIC and REASON that bothers you, because I have noticed that you use a high level of feeling and emotion in your posts, which is the antithesis to a reasoned argument. You value nice, empty words over straightforward truths and "think" with your emotions, rather than reason and logic.

Is not a valid logical argument. It is more likely to be an explanation rather than an argument ("a connected series of statements to establish a definite proposition" - Monty Python sketch)

It has no validity as a logical argument due to the large number of logical fallacies that render it utterly meaningless in any deductive sense. It does, however, have validity as an opinion and true respresentation of the thoughts/feelings/opinions of the poster, Melody Lane and, as such, can not be refuted as her personal truth.

---

As an aside, I make no claim to be 'any good' at building logical arguments. I am, as Melody Lane might say, highly emotional and use my feelings to 'think' and process information rather than sequential processing or deductive logic.

I do not believe that logic is necessarily useful for discussions regarding human experiences because .. let's see if I can present an argument for this (bear with me, I'm awful at this).

Premise: Logic is not a set of rules or steps that describes or governs human behavior.

Argument:

People often don't behave logically.
Therefore logic does not describe human behavior.

Fallacies:

Vacuous argument: No proof is offered to support the premise. False always implies true across and implication.

Darn! Let's try again

Argument:

People often want illogical things.
Therefore logic does not describe or govern human behavior.

Fallacies:

Vacuous again!

I mentioned I was bad at this, didn't I?

Since I have a hard time proving that logic has anything to do with the human experience, it must follow that logic does not describe or govern human behavior.

Fallacies:

Argumentum ad ignorantiam - just because something hasn't been proven to be false, it must be true.

Yikes!

Ok.. last try.

Logical arguments have certain, specific, and defined characteristics: a proposition, a premise, a set of inferences, and, finally, a conclusion. There is no evidence (that I have found) of a mechanism that ensures that a human being will use those characteristics in decision making. Therefore, the absence of logical characteristics to an argument seems to imply that logical arguments are not used. (ie. if you must have certain ingredients to make a logical argument and those ingredients are not found, then it can be determined that the conclusion is false.)

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere. We know that the only way an implication can be false is if the premise is true and the consequence if false. This seems to be getting close, though I'm sure it's a pretty weak argument. I told you I was bad at this.

Conclusion:

Quote
What appeals to one person may not appeal to another, huh?

This I agree with 100%.

Mys

P.S. Oh. Somehow I thought logic was going to be discussed. Darn. I guess I'll post this anyway for any who are interested. Darn my slow typing.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:48 PM
2BNormal, with all due respect, you are one of the foggier posters here. If we were going to have a contest, you would make the top 10, IMO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Your posts are repleat with fogged out rationalizations, excuses and spin.

I will tell you what is really disrespectful. It is BEING thoughtless, cruel and cowardly. There is nothing disrespectful about pointing it out, though.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:49 PM
2B -- I understand that you feel that was directed to you personally.

But step back for a second and consider that Mel was not attacking you "personally", but your view and those who supported your view (and there were many...)

When making a decision that impacts others; such as whether or not to inform another spouse of an affair -- there are very strong opinions. Sort of like starting a discussion on abortion rights; big can of worms with very strong and heartfelt opinions!

So if you were here stating your opinion on abortion -- you might get the same sort of response about morals and values simply because the other side so strongly disagrees with your opinion.

You were not the only one on your post taking the particular position you took. There were others there too supporting you. I think Mel's statement was directed at the entire group, not you personally.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:53 PM
Quote
2BNormal, with all due respect, you are one of the foggier posters here. If we were going to have a contest, you would make the top 10, IMO. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Your posts are repleat with fogged out rationalizations, excuses and spin.

I will tell you what is really disrespectful. It is BEING thoughtless, cruel and cowardly. There is nothing disrespectful about pointing it out, though.

This is YOUR opinion..Hey every opinion counts right??

I AM NOT FOGGY. A year ago I WAS FOGGY. WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE???? JUST BECAUSE I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU MEL, DOESN'T MAKE ME FOGGY. IT ONLY MEANS I DISAGREE.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:56 PM
Quote
2B -- I understand that you feel that was directed to you personally.

But step back for a second and consider that Mel was not attacking you "personally", but your view and those who supported your view (and there were many...)

When making a decision that impacts others; such as whether or not to inform another spouse of an affair -- there are very strong opinions. Sort of like starting a discussion on abortion rights; big can of worms with very strong and heartfelt opinions!

So if you were here stating your opinion on abortion -- you might get the same sort of response about morals and values simply because the other side so strongly disagrees with your opinion.

You were not the only one on your post taking the particular position you took. There were others there too supporting you. I think Mel's statement was directed at the entire group, not you personally.

Calling someone a moral coward...whether it was just me or other posters is NOT respectful.

BTW, Dr. Harley supported my view of letting my husband handle the decision to expose or not expose to the OM's W.

If you would like to see the email I received directly from Dr. Harley, I will post it again here.
Posted By: eldente Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:59 PM
...Stay tune for scenes from next week's thread. Same bat channel, same bat time.

There is a train that leaves the station heading for your destination,
But the price you pay to nowhere has increased a dollar more.
Yes, it has!
And if you walk you're gonna get there though it takes a little longer,
And when you see it in the distance you will wring your hands and moan.
Posted By: Eagle15 Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 02:59 PM
Mel,

I have to agree with you on this one. Sounds very foggy to me, I'm no expert, but have been the recipient of some serious fog lately.

Good call Mel!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:01 PM
Quote
[

Calling someone a moral coward...whether it was just me or other posters is NOT respectful.


BEING a moral coward is not respectful. There is nothing disrespectful about pointing it out.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:05 PM
Quote
[

BTW, Dr. Harley supported my view of letting my husband handle the decision to expose or not expose to the OM's W.

What ELSE did Dr Harley tell you, *****? I heard a replay of the show on Monday, and not only was your rendition of his comments very different from what he said, but you left out some very important advice that he gave you. Remember?
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:06 PM
Quote
Mel,

I have to agree with you on this one. Sounds very foggy to me, I'm no expert, but have been the recipient of some serious fog lately.

Good call Mel!

A person that has been well over an affair for over a year is NOT in a fog. I don't have the same viewpoint as Mel, so that makes me in a fog???....Is she such an expert? I hardly think so.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:06 PM
2B -- I know that your information was direct from Dr. Harley.

I found that disappointing to be honest with you. I was a betrayed wife. My husband kept that secret from me for almost 15 YEARS.

I cannot describe to you the sorrow and anger I (still to this day) feel about having my life stolen from me. I can never recover those years, the things I would have done differently if I had only had the TRUTH about my own life! I was allowed (by my WH) to make MAJOR life decisions and life altering choices on false information. My entire life would be different today.

My heart goes out to your OMW. She deserves so much better. And if we could only reach you, maybe you could be the one to give her that gift.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:10 PM
Quote
Quote
[

BTW, Dr. Harley supported my view of letting my husband handle the decision to expose or not expose to the OM's W.

What ELSE did Dr Harley tell you, *****? I heard a replay of the show on Monday, and not only was your rendition of his comments very different from what he said, but you left out some very important advice that he gave you. Remember?

Mel, his comments were to let my husband make the decision. This same response was received in an email reply from Dr. Harley. Yes, he gave other advice, but this was the answer to my question.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:12 PM
Quote
Quote
Mel,

I have to agree with you on this one. Sounds very foggy to me, I'm no expert, but have been the recipient of some serious fog lately.

Good call Mel!

A person that has been well over an affair for over a year is NOT in a fog. I don't have the same viewpoint as Mel, so that makes me in a fog???....Is she such an expert? I hardly think so.

It matters not how long you have been in recovery. I know people who have been in recovery for 10 years who are more fogged out that others who have been in R for 6 months. The mark of a fogged out mind is one that is still making excuses and rationalizations and is hostile to any suggestion of remorse. Those are the marks of a fogged out person. It is real clear to someone who is NOT in a fog.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:15 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
[

BTW, Dr. Harley supported my view of letting my husband handle the decision to expose or not expose to the OM's W.

What ELSE did Dr Harley tell you, *****? I heard a replay of the show on Monday, and not only was your rendition of his comments very different from what he said, but you left out some very important advice that he gave you. Remember?

Mel, his comments were to let my husband make the decision. This same response was received in an email reply from Dr. Harley. Yes, he gave other advice, but this was the answer to my question.

No, they weren't. He agreed you had a moral obligation to notify this woman but wanted your H to do it rather than you. He said NOTHING about getting your h's agreement. I heard the call,*****.

[I have emailed him asking for the transcript]

What was the OTHER ADVICE he told you? You appear to be avoiding that. Why not tell the others what ELSE he told you?
Posted By: Eagle15 Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:16 PM
2B,
Fog or Bleeding heart liberal.

Define "is", and I never slept with that woman, M...... L....

Fog speak, whether you think you are recovered and/or been in recovery for a year just doesn't matter. What matters is how you are recieved and percieved by those around you. The general consensus is FOG!
Posted By: GBH Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:17 PM
Quote
MelodyLane,
The BIG issue I have is that you went on an on yesterday how you do not bash but only disagree.

This post I quoted was a direct bash at me and you attacked my character. This kind of treatment will not be tolerated by me. YOU may disagree with what I had to say on my thread, but the treatment you gave me was uncalled for.

You not only attacked my character but also attacked sfjaj's character by your words.

I am only asking you to examine your words as the words you posted to me were not helpful in any way. I asked you to explain how your words were helpful to me, but you refuse to answer my question.

2BN ... Honestly, it's not worth anyone's valuable time to get into a pi$$ing contest with ML. Look at the pattern here. She routinely bashes WSs and FWSs, even FWSs like you and me who are de-fogged. It's what she does. I've been in pi$$ing contests with her, too, and it's just not worth the aggrevation. ML always has to get the last word in, and while much, maybe even most, of what she has to say has some base in logic and is perfectly in line with MB principles, her one-size-fits-all attitude can be off-base for certain sitches and nearly always, her delivery (especially to WSs and FWSs) leaves much to be desired.

I was always of the belief that we're supposed to be helping one another here. Well, ML has clearly stated that helping people is not high on her list, as evidenced in her post here.

Quote
And that post was not delivered with the intent of "being helpful to 2BNormal" but as an expression of MY THOUGHTS.

I think the above speaks volumes about ML's intentions when posting to WS/FWS on this board.
Posted By: top rope Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:19 PM
Well,
will someone Please kindly tell the rest of us .......(what this Missing other advice was)??
Posted By: committedtoher Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:20 PM
I am sfjaj husband. This was a difficult decision I made, to read much less post on this website. she had mentioned the site to me a few days ago, and my point of view was that my pain was my own private hurt and I did not relish an audience for that. As she was upset by comments made on the site, I spent much of last night reading several posts on the site and decided I needed to break my silence. Let me begin by saying I am in such a state of pain that some may say I'm in no position to offer any advice but I don't agree. It occurred to me while reading that each stage of recovery offers a unique point of view that can be helpful to people, whether it is the spouse who had the affair or the spouse who was betrayed or whether an individual is 2 hours out of recovery or 2 years out of recovery.

It seems to me that there are direct conflicts between those spouses that have been betrayed and those who had the A. The betrayed spouses seem to believe that their hurt is so profound and deep that those who have had affairs, particularly those just out of the mire, can offer no logic. Or as one poster said, "in a fog." As one who was betrayed, I certainly understand where you are coming from but that view is wrong! Those views can offer much to us.

I am not excusing my wife's (nor anyone else's) affair; it is the ultimate betrayal of wedding vows. But as I remember, I also vowed to treat my wife as Christ would treat the church and I most assuredly have broken that vow. How can any of us believe that we alone have All the answers?

We stumble, we fall. We help one another up. we do not help by using epithets, pointing blame or distorting the view.please think before you speak
Posted By: myschae Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:21 PM
Quote
maybe even most, of what she has to say has some base in logic

Argh!

Not unless the replies I've seen on this thread are an abberation.

Please stop calling it logic.

It's getting painful.

Mys
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:21 PM
Quote
2B -- I know that your information was direct from Dr. Harley.

I found that disappointing to be honest with you. I was a betrayed wife. My husband kept that secret from me for almost 15 YEARS.

I cannot describe to you the sorrow and anger I (still to this day) feel about having my life stolen from me. I can never recover those years, the things I would have done differently if I had only had the TRUTH about my own life! I was allowed (by my WH) to make MAJOR life decisions and life altering choices on false information. My entire life would be different today.

My heart goes out to your OMW. She deserves so much better. And if we could only reach you, maybe you could be the one to give her that gift.

Lexxy, I agree 100%. I think it is cruel and heartless to not tell her. But if you listened to the show you would have heard Dr Harley saying she SHOULD be told and that her H should be the one to do it so that 2B doesn't talk to the OM. He never said "only if your H agrees." [of course he would have to agree in order to make the call]

***** then emailed him and told him that her H was adamant that they not tell her. So what was Dr Harley to do? I am sure he figured there was no point in telling her to have a fight with her H about it. Instead he wanted to know why her H wasn't in recovery.

I was much less disappointed when I actually heard the call myself and could see how badly 2BNormal spun the truth. I did tell Dr Harley that she came here and spun the truth and asked for a transcript. Hopefully, he has one he provide and I will just post it.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:23 PM
Quote
Quote
maybe even most, of what she has to say has some base in logic

Argh!

Not unless the replies I've seen on this thread are an abberation.

Please stop calling it logic.

It's getting painful.

Mys

ok, call it a ham sandwich, will that make you feel better? Good grief!
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:23 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
[

BTW, Dr. Harley supported my view of letting my husband handle the decision to expose or not expose to the OM's W.

What ELSE did Dr Harley tell you, *****? I heard a replay of the show on Monday, and not only was your rendition of his comments very different from what he said, but you left out some very important advice that he gave you. Remember?

Mel, his comments were to let my husband make the decision. This same response was received in an email reply from Dr. Harley. Yes, he gave other advice, but this was the answer to my question.

No, they weren't. He agreed you had a moral obligation to notify this woman but wanted your H to do it rather than you. He said NOTHING about getting your h's agreement. I heard the call, *****.

[I have emailed him asking for the transcript]

What was the OTHER ADVICE he told you? You appear to be avoiding that. Why not tell the others what ELSE he told you?

Mel, I have requested the transcripts as well because I DO want to hear exactly what was said and what I may have missed. When I listened to the program, I gathered what I could because it was live. I wish I would have know it was replayed. I wish you would have told me so that I could have listened to it again.

I received an email from Dr. Harley yesterday stating that the transcripts to the program will not be available any time soon or maybe not at all. He suggested that I call into the show myself and ask the question again, and then record the program.

The email reply from Dr. Harley stated that he was OK in letting my husband make the decision to inform the OM's wife.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:24 PM
Quote
[

I think the above speaks volumes about ML's intentions when posting to WS/FWS on this board.

SERIOUS FOGHORN with this one! She makes the TOP 5! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:27 PM
MelodyLane,
Please change your posts where you posted my real name. That was uncalled for.

Thank you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:28 PM
Quote
[

Mel, I have requested the transcripts as well because I DO want to hear exactly what was said and what I may have missed. When I listened to the program, I gathered what I could because it was live. I wish I would have know it was replayed. I wish you would have told me so that I could have listened to it again.

I received an email from Dr. Harley yesterday stating that the transcripts to the program will not be available any time soon or maybe not at all. He suggested that I call into the show myself and ask the question again, and then record the program.

The email reply from Dr. Harley stated that he was OK in letting my husband make the decision to inform the OM's wife.

Honestly, 2BNoraml, what did you expect him to say when you told him your H REFUSED to call or allow anyone to call? Put a gun to his head? Dr. Harley was not likely to do that.

But he did tell you something else very important that he was ADAMANT about. You never mention this. Why?
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:29 PM
Quote
I was much less disappointed when I actually heard the call myself and could see how badly 2BNormal spun the truth. I did tell Dr Harley that she came here and spun the truth and asked for a transcript. Hopefully, he has one he provide and I will just post it.

I told Dr. Harley about your posts too and what you believe. And how you are so adament about exposure at all costs.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:29 PM
Thanks Mel.
I feel better.

I was very disappointed to think that Dr. Harley wouldn't wholeheartedly insist on this poor woman being told.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:30 PM
Quote
[

I told Dr. Harley about your posts too and what you believe. And how you are so adament about exposure at all costs.

He knows that I agree with him 100% and I told him as much.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:33 PM
Quote
But he did tell you something else very important that he was ADAMANT about. You never mention this. Why?

Because I am not exactly sure what you are referring to. He did say he always believes that the OP's spouse should know. I did state that in my original thread. He did say that I need to discuss this with my husband, which I did.

He did say about getting help. He did say about making sure another affair does not happen and I believe he mentioned some ways to prevent that.

As I said earlier, I requested the transcripts as well, because I didn't want to miss anything. I may have missed what you caught.
Posted By: top rope Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:34 PM
Exposer to the world at large .......no. (unless the A won't end, that is) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

To the "other" BS.......you betch ya! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As for 2Be relating a Position she neither agrees with, nor cares for ........I can ONLY Imagine the "spin" during that communication (in how she phrased it to the good Dr.)! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:36 PM
Quote
Quote
[

I told Dr. Harley about your posts too and what you believe. And how you are so adament about exposure at all costs.

He knows that I agree with him 100% and I told him as much.

I did not hear Dr. Harley say exposure at ALL COSTS on the program. Yes, he was adament about exposing to the OP's spouse, but he also looked at my situation and gave me advice to talk it over with my H and that my H should make the call to the OM's W, if he decided to expose to her.

He was adament about ME not calling their house so as not to risk contact with the OM.
Posted By: top rope Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:37 PM
Quote
from 2be Normal:
He did say he always believes that the OP's spouse should know.

AT Last! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for Finally getting to the Bottom LINE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Can we stop with the endless threads now?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:38 PM
He told you that you should NEVER EVER be on the computer alone. Perhaps if your H is in the room with you, but otherwise, NO COMPUTER ever.
Posted By: GBH Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:38 PM
Quote
Quote
[

I think the above speaks volumes about ML's intentions when posting to WS/FWS on this board.

SERIOUS FOGHORN with this one! She makes the TOP 5! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Not fog, ML. Fact. Direct quote from you.

Your post proves you know NOTHING about me. I've been repentant since day one, took responsibility for the A, have felt a sh!tload of guilt and remorse, have been committed to rebuilding, and have learned a lot about how to communicate with my H to keep this from ever happening again.

I do feel badly for people like you whose goal in life seems to be to make others feel more miserable than they already do. That, BTW, is NOT part of the MB principles, and defies all logic.

In fact mys was right, I take it back, there is very little logic in your posts. Only bitterness and utter disdain for anyone who dares to state an opinion different from your own. You are no better than any of the rest of us ML, sad part is you don't seem willing to acknowledge that.
Posted By: penaltybox Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:40 PM
From Penalty Kill

sfjaj and committedtoher, I wish you both strength in your recovery. You too, 2bNormal.

My H's comment when I showed him this thread? "There she goes again, stirring the pot, missing the key ingredient: compassion".

As for ML's deliberate use of 2bnormal's name? Another in a series of low blows, designed for maximum effect. Absolutely pathetic.

ML, heartmending, myschae and gbh have your number.
Posted By: top rope Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:40 PM
My oh my,
Now that is interesting.

2Be,
Your H there Now?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:43 PM
Quote
[

I did not hear Dr. Harley say exposure at ALL COSTS on the program. Yes, he was adament about exposing to the OP's spouse, but he also looked at my situation and gave me advice to talk it over with my H and that my H should make the call to the OM's W, if he decided to expose to her.

ummmmmmmmmmm no. He never said to leave the decision up to your H. That was what YOU wanted to do all along and that was your spin. He said have your H make the call because he didn't want you talkng to the OM. And naturally your H would have to agree if he was to make the call.

Dr. Harley was quite clear and ADAMANT that your victim should be told.
Posted By: SillySillyGirl Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:44 PM
COMMITTED TO HER...I think your post was lost in all these other posts.

You are a HERO in my eyes, a TRUE HERO.
Not only forgiving your wife and accepting this little
baby daughter as your own but also for being willing to sign in here and come to her defense.

Did you read the horrible way she was treated by Melody on this thread below that she started for your wife?

This should be read by all BEFORE DEFENDING Mel's 'advice'.

Click here: Mels posts to sfjaj

In case you missed this post by sfjaj's husband:

Poster: committedtoher
Subject: Re: MelodyLane

I am sfjaj husband. This was a difficult decision I made, to read much less post on this website. she had mentioned the site to me a few days ago, and my point of view was that my pain was my own private hurt and I did not relish an audience for that. As she was upset by comments made on the site, I spent much of last night reading several posts on the site and decided I needed to break my silence. Let me begin by saying I am in such a state of pain that some may say I'm in no position to offer any advice but I don't agree. It occurred to me while reading that each stage of recovery offers a unique point of view that can be helpful to people, whether it is the spouse who had the affair or the spouse who was betrayed or whether an individual is 2 hours out of recovery or 2 years out of recovery.

It seems to me that there are direct conflicts between those spouses that have been betrayed and those who had the A. The betrayed spouses seem to believe that their hurt is so profound and deep that those who have had affairs, particularly those just out of the mire, can offer no logic. Or as one poster said, "in a fog." As one who was betrayed, I certainly understand where you are coming from but that view is wrong! Those views can offer much to us.

I am not excusing my wife's (nor anyone else's) affair; it is the ultimate betrayal of wedding vows. But as I remember, I also vowed to treat my wife as Christ would treat the church and I most assuredly have broken that vow. How can any of us believe that we alone have All the answers?

We stumble, we fall. We help one another up. we do not help by using epithets, pointing blame or distorting the view.please think before you speak"
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:45 PM
Quote
He told you that you should NEVER EVER be on the computer alone. Perhaps if your H is in the room with you, but otherwise, NO COMPUTER ever.

YES, I know he said this. I do remember this. I didn't mention this on my original thread, nor did I mention EVERYTHING Dr. Harley stated. My computer usage had nothing to do with the purpose of my thread last week.

My husband and I have made our decisions about me and my computer usage. He is well aware of what I do, and I have created the boundaries necessary to prevent having another online affair. I did reply to Dr. Harley in a 2nd email stating this to him.
Posted By: at peace Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:48 PM
I can't imagine that there's even a QUESTION that the OP's spouse should be notified about the A! OF COURSE they should be told!

To withhold that information from an unaware BS just so the WS or the aware BS won't be uncomfortable is incredibly selfish. Not to mention cowardly. Doing the right this isn't always easy...otherwise everyone would do it.

The recovery process is very hard, and frequently painful. It's chock full of opportunities to grow as a person by doing the right thing.

I appreciate Melody's commitment to the MB principals. She does not tiptoe around dishonesty or cowardice, and when you're dealing with affairs that's priceless! Granted, she can come across as harsh sometimes, and many people don't like her forthright writing style....but if that's the case, THEN USE THE "IGNORE" FEATURE!

I'm wouldn't ever say that newbies shouldn't post....that's not the case at all. However, I do think that they should be well informed of Dr. Harley's concepts before the try to advise other posters, else they may cause further damage to someone's M by giving bad (tho well-intentioned) advice.

And Myschae....you crack me up! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lori
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:48 PM
Quote
Quote
[

I did not hear Dr. Harley say exposure at ALL COSTS on the program. Yes, he was adament about exposing to the OP's spouse, but he also looked at my situation and gave me advice to talk it over with my H and that my H should make the call to the OM's W, if he decided to expose to her.

ummmmmmmmmmm no. He never said to leave the decision up to your H. That was what YOU wanted to do all along and that was your spin. He said have your H make the call because he didn't want you talkng to the OM. And naturally your H would have to agree if he was to make the call.

Dr. Harley was quite clear and ADAMANT that your victim should be told.


This is a direct quote from Dr. Harley's email to me:

Quote
I'm okay with letting your husband decide whether or not to let your former lover's wife know about the affair.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:49 PM
Silly -- I went back and read it and I missed the "mean" that you're talking about. She was never mean.

We often have new posters give advice that is contrary to the MB principals. Its very easy to let your emotions take over and wander off the path of the proven PLAN you're trying to follow.

Mel simply tried to keep the original poster on the MB path, and to avoid getting caught up in the emotional decisions that new posters often support.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:50 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
[

I think the above speaks volumes about ML's intentions when posting to WS/FWS on this board.

SERIOUS FOGHORN with this one! She makes the TOP 5! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Not fog, ML. Fact. Direct quote from you.

Your post proves you know NOTHING about me. I've been repentant since day one, took responsibility for the A, have felt a sh!tload of guilt and remorse, have been committed to rebuilding, and have learned a lot about how to communicate with my H to keep this from ever happening again.

All anyone has to do to see that you toot a SERIOUS FOGHORN, GBH, and harbor some major hostility [the hallmarks of a FOGGED out mind] is read your most recent example from yesterday. It was a BEAUT! lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2965371
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:53 PM

Quote
I'm okay with letting your husband decide whether or not to let your former lover's wife know about the affair.
[/quote]

What was the man supposed to SAY after you sent him an email telling him your H REFUSED or allow you to notify the OMW? You know what he told you in that call, 2BNormal. Did you expect him to say: hold a gun to his head??
Posted By: SillySillyGirl Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:54 PM
Well, Lexxy, your definition of MEAN is different than mine, because I thought she was VERY MEAN to sfjaj.

I cannot imagine anyone talking like that to ANYONE in real life; hiding in a forum, and bashing away, is somehow acceptable?

Well, it is NOT acceptable to me.

Re-read what TEMPEST said about being respectful to others in our posts.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:55 PM
Quote
COMMITTED TO HER...I think your post was lost in all these other posts.

You are a HERO in my eyes, a TRUE HERO.
Not only forgiving your wife and accepting this little
baby daughter as your own but also for being willing to sign in here and come to her defense.

Did you read the horrible way she was treated by Melody on this thread below that she started for your wife?

This should be read by all BEFORE DEFENDING Mel's 'advice'.

Click here: Mels posts to sfjaj

oh brother, if that is your idea of "mean," you clearly need counseling.
Posted By: Lexxxy Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 03:56 PM
It is not disrespectful to disagree.
Posted By: eldente Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:00 PM
Quote
All anyone has to do to see that you toot a SERIOUS FOGHORN, GBH, and harbor some major hostility [the hallmarks of a FOGGED out mind] is read your most recent example from yesterday. It was a BEAUT! lol

Hostility?? Serious foghorn??? I don't get it?? Didn't see any of that in the link you provided. Am I missing something here? I think not. I know exactly what's going on here.

I have to say, people like GBH show real strength coming here and getting bashed for something they did in the past. She's one of the good guys. She's not stuck over in TOW land.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:06 PM
Quote
Quote
I'm okay with letting your husband decide whether or not to let your former lover's wife know about the affair.

What was the man supposed to SAY after you sent him an email telling him your H REFUSED or allow you to notify the OMW? You know what he told you in that call, 2BNormal. Did you expect him to say: hold a gun to his head?? [/quote]

MelodyLane,
I feel that you expect me to contact this woman against my H's wishes. I made a clear statement previously that I would not do that. I made a clear statement previously that I will stand by my H for the sake of my marriage. I made a clear statement that I agree that this woman needs to know the truth, but I need to stand by my H in his decision.

You seem to have a problem with me wanting to respect my husband. You seem to want me to keep convincing my husband to make the call. By, doing so, I feel it will hurt our marriage even more as these discussions about this with my H caused great harm already. There may come a time Mel, where he may feel convicted that this needs to be done. He read some of the posts here and did not agree at this time.

Please let this go. I let it go last week.
Posted By: Mellow Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:07 PM
Quote
It is not disrespectful to disagree.

No, Lexxy, it is NOT disrespectful to disagree.

HOWEVER, ML may have some very good advice to give people but her delivery leaves a lot to be desired. You don't give advice with that condescending, "know it all" attitude that she posesses. I understand her defending the MB principles, but why be so nasty in delivering them? I don't get that. Does she actually believe that she can "get through" to 2B using that approach? She has great points; however, lacks tact, IMHO.
Posted By: top rope Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:11 PM
Quote
from penalty KILL:
"There she goes again, stirring the pot, missing the key ingredient: compassion ".


Funny you should be the one to mention this aspect.

After all,
That is ONE of the key reasons an "in the dark" BS deserves to KNOW the truth about thier LIFE and Marriage .......COMPASSION.

Majority of BS tend to get this instinctively .....some WS, not so much.

Very nice of you to at least begin to recognize that fact.
Hopefully your posts will begin to reflect this Understanding in the near future.
Posted By: GBH Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:13 PM
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
[

I think the above speaks volumes about ML's intentions when posting to WS/FWS on this board.

SERIOUS FOGHORN with this one! She makes the TOP 5! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Not fog, ML. Fact. Direct quote from you.

Your post proves you know NOTHING about me. I've been repentant since day one, took responsibility for the A, have felt a sh!tload of guilt and remorse, have been committed to rebuilding, and have learned a lot about how to communicate with my H to keep this from ever happening again.

All anyone has to do to see that you toot a SERIOUS FOGHORN, GBH, and harbor some major hostility [the hallmarks of a FOGGED out mind] is read your most recent example from yesterday. It was a BEAUT! lol <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2965371

WHAT??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Acknowledging that exposure causes discomfort to FWW, and suggesting that FBS ask that his family treat FWW decently and without hostility means that I am fogged? I say it's a simple matter of treating someone as you would like to be treated. Your accusation that I am fogged because I suggested someone be treated decently makes it even more clear that you, ML, harbor nothing but bitterness and espouse said bitterness against any WS or FWS, regardless of circumstances.

Thank you ML for confirming my earlier assessment of you. You are a piece of work, I think we can all agree on that.
Posted By: ark^^ Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:16 PM
If you don't like what a poster has to say...
DON'T READ IT
AND
TAKE NO HEED OF WHAT THEY SAY>>>>

This posting she said he said is childlike....

AND
we are ALL guests here of one persons visions and program...

THIS is not a site..

do debate your personal broad general beliefs of what you agree with or disagree with with the owner of this board...

if you have accross the board general disagreements...take them and start your own board...

people that come here have the right to have access to the information as developed by its owner...not personal agendas...

though every situation can be should be and is looked at individual basis and thoughts expressed on what may be DIFFERENT if the case applies to typical principle...it must done with clearly indentifying that what you say is not and does not jive with the marriage builders principle points...


BUT this is NOT a place to push your own agenda...on every person....because you disagree with the owner..

in my opinion it is like going to an AA support board and pushing your belief that alcoholics can still drink here and there....and is disrespectful of the authors...

this is NOT to say that people don't have differences....
but this in NOT the place to always push those differences...

this never has been a support board...
this is a board that promotes the owners agenda...

be clear I am not saying that you HAVE to agree 1000000000% with all the principles here established within the marriage building process...I'm not convinced of all of them...
BUT
I am a guest here...
and I have great respect for the owner of this board who in my opinion has done a good job in helping marriages with the statistics to prove it...so when I veer off the marriage builders path...I try to make it clear that is what I am doing....

it's better than nothing
and better than most...

but I am a guest here...and I remain mindful of that with every post...

ARK^^
Posted By: SillySillyGirl Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:23 PM
Ark, perhaps it is WRONG for us to sit back and not defend
someone that is getting BEAT UP by a poster; even a LONG TIME poster.

It is perhaps wrong to just 'not read' what they are saying to this struggling person.

I posted a thread where Melody was being MEAN to sfjaj but I actually didn't post the one before it where she was really harsh.

In no way whatsoever was she helping sfjaj in this thread.I thought the purpose of this forum was to HELP.

It seems the GOLDEN RULE has sure been lost around here.
"To do unto others as we would have them do unto us."

This thread of hurtful words from Mel to sfjaj.
SO UNNECESSARY:
CLICK RIGHT HERE
Posted By: ark^^ Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:27 PM
so somehow though we tell poster after to poster here that you can only control yourself...

somehow magically people are going to change this posters or that posters approach to how they post...

illogical at best....

it is your OPINION if this or that is mean...

if you believe it's violates the terms of this board
report it
period...

all this other stuff...
wasted energy and time....

ark
Posted By: eldente Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:34 PM
Quote
in my opinion it is like going to an AA support board and pushing your belief that alcoholics can still drink here and there....and is disrespectful of the authors...

Very true and also people can work the 12 steps in different time frames and ARE still recovering while doing so. I know some recovering alkies who've been sober for a decade and haven't made it to step eight yet. Demeaning someone because they are not on step five or six does not help them get to step three and four. They usually stop going to the meetings. AA isn't about pointing out a person's flawed character while they were drinking, everybody in the room was flawed!! That's why they are there in the first place. Those rooms are about learning to live without booze and to make amends whenver you can w/o hurting a person.

Some people reaching out for help may get turned off by a rude "recovered" drunk when they first walk into the rooms. This usually doesn't happen because most recovered drunks(who really get the program and its true meaning) are not rude to newcomers if they are truly trying to stay sober. But in the case it happens, Lluckily there are more than one meeting nightly in most towns unlike the option to find another MB forum.

More times than not you will see a certain trait all drunks agree they use to have while actively drinking when sitting in these rooms; The desire/need to control other people and the desire/need to be right all the time.

just my .02
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:42 PM
Quote
I posted a thread where Melody was being MEAN to sfjaj but I actually didn't post the one before it where she was really harsh.

In no way whatsoever was she helping sfjaj in this thread.I thought the purpose of this forum was to HELP.

Sillygirl, that is not my idea of "MEAN," that is your own personal extrapolation based on your own issues. Being direct is not being MEAN by any definition. If you have issues, then either deal with them or tell the mods.

But don't imagine that you can dictate behavior here or that others are interested in changing their personality to suit your tastes. They AREN'T. That would be unrealistic.

It is also unrealistic to imagine that you are the arbiter of what is or isn't "helpful." Its a little arrogant to presume you are.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:42 PM
MelodyLane,
If you missed my request to remove my real name from your posts, I am requesting this again.

If you do not respect me in this, I shall request this entire thread to be deleted.

thank you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:47 PM
Quote
From Penalty Kill

As for ML's deliberate use of 2bnormal's name? Another in a series of low blows, designed for maximum effect. Absolutely pathetic.

I consider that a compliment coming from a person who lied to her H for 4 years about her affair and then viciously attacked and BLAMED the OM's wife [your other victim] for informing her H. You blame HER for causing the pain in your family rather than yourself. NOT very "compassionate" if you ask me. A person's "compassion" is defined by their ACTIONS, not nice words. Talk is cheap, pk.

Your posts are steeped with resentment against anyone who dared to point this out to you, so I am not surprised you are here piling on with cheap shots.
Posted By: Flukeboy Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:48 PM
Silly Girl 04

Quote
I cannot imagine anyone talking like that to ANYONE in real life; hiding in a forum, and bashing away, is somehow acceptable?

Well, it is NOT acceptable to me.

I know you aren't "hiding in a forum, and bashing away" by posting under this screen name (24 posts since 9/04). That wouldn't hold with your above statement.

Sorry to see that you've had so little to say over the last year and a half. Feel free to engage more often in discussions. You're only averaging 1.33 posts/month at this rate.

Be happy.
Posted By: 2Bnormal Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 04:56 PM
The request was made to delete this thread.
Posted By: penaltybox Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 05:07 PM
From Penalty Kill

ML, that is only *your* interpretation, *your* opinion of my situation, which you are entitled to have. I don't "resent" you for your opinion, but I do notice when you employ the same tactics, time after time, poster after poster. You fasten onto certain aspects and ignore others. Oddly enough, the posters you attack lately seem to have one thing in common: supportive spouses. But that may very well be coincidence, and I am not being sarcastic when I say that.

My truth, my H's truth, and that of those who actually know us is much different from yours. This is our life. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with you or your minions. As I've said before, I am sanguine about the way things have turned out, far from the "bitter" person you would like to believe I am.
Posted By: believer Re: MelodyLane - 03/16/06 05:44 PM
Welcome to marriagebuilders Committedtoher. It's usually much better than this for support. I hope you will continue reading and posting here.
© Marriage BuildersĀ® Forums