I know this is crazy, but hear me out.
I am 13 days removed from D-Day. The A has been over for 15 days. NC has been established for 5 days (I hope!). I am still at a point where I run spyware on her PC, read emails, and I'm researching a digital voice recorder for when she meets her female friend next week for lunch (who knows of the A). I have resumed kissing her goodbye, giving loving gentle touches, foot rubs, etc. She is receptive, but is in no way affectionate towards me yet (no touches period initiated by her). I am much more open with her about my feelings but she is still walled off.
Yet I am agreeing to buy a house with her (sell our house and buy a bigger one in the same neighborhood). We placed the offer last night, and we will probably get it.
We joke that we are going to "go down in flames" together. Commit financial suicide so to speak. She wants the house as a way to force herself to stay in the marriage and give rebuilding a shot. I am agreeing to the house as a way of saying to her with financial ruin on the line that I am in this with her for keeps. I have no wish other than to be happily married to her (keyword there is happily for both of us) for the rest of my days. I know the house is crazy because of the state of our marriage. We are only 1 session into MC, and she's not even actively participating yet. As far as I know, she could resume an A or pursue a D in a year. She has felt betrayed by me (neglect, not loving her enough, not protecting her, not putting her first, etc.) for a long time. Her love for me is almost nonexistent at this point. But with the help of this site I think I can do it. I already see it working. I have lost weight. I stay positive. I internalize the concept that she would be CRAZY to not choose me. I write down every morning how I want to love and protect my wife and I write down all the ways I try to meet her needs during that day.
But one of my fears is that she doesn't trust that I really love her or that I will ever forgive her (I do not think I will have a problem fully forgiving her as long as she fully loves me again). I think she's afraid that she will become emotionally invested in the M again and that I will be secretly harboring resentment and eventually decide to leave her. The house is my way of saying, no, I truly want us to recover and build a better life and marriage than we ever had before the A.
What does everyone think? Am I crazy? Am I deluding myself to think that so soon after DDay I can commit to a major life purchase like this with her?
TomFool
Yes it is crazy and yes it is delusional.
A HOUSE does not have the power to do any of the things you are asking it to.
Don't do it dude.
"What does everyone think? Am I crazy? Am I deluding myself to think that so soon after DDay I can commit to a major life purchase like this with her?"
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Absolutely crazy and you should know better.
A new house or home improvements won't make one shred of difference to your marriage or love for each other. Spend your money on counselling (and do NOT quit early), dates, vacations, etc.
No offense here I don't think crazy covers it.
I went to thesaurus.com and here are some others for you.
ape, barmy, batty, berserk, bonkers*, cracked, crazed, cuckoo, daft, delirious, demented, deranged, dingy*, dippy*, erratic, flaky, flipped*, flipped out*, freaked out*, fruity*, haywire, idiotic, insane, kooky, lunatic, mad, maniacal, mental*, moonstruck*, nuts, nutty, potty*, psycho*, screw loose*, screwball*, screwy*, silly, touched*, unbalanced, unglued*, unhinged*, unzipped*, wacky, whacko
So there you go.
I agree with norm. If you want to see commitment make it to MC and IC. Make a commitment to each other not to go down in financial ruins but to stay together and have a better M.
It's magical thinking TF.
The WS speciality. So I'm not suprised that she thinks it's a smashing plan...but I'm sad to see you being sucked into this.
You are allowing wishfull thinking to erode reality.
Wishfullness= If I make this big gesture or place us in a no way out corner we will just HAVE to make it/be reconciled/whathaveyou.
Reality= Your wife was in an affair mere weeks ago and the trauma for you both...and the issues for you both will be measured in YEARS. You do not even KNOW that your M can BE recovered at this point and nothing you can do with change that or speed the process.
What COULD more likely happen is that the FINANCIAL strain puts EVEN MORE pressure on an already failing marriage. Your WW will probably feel trapped as will you. You may grow to HATE the house as a result. Your wife may flake on you..and possibly come and go for a period of months...what to do about the bills then?
You are trying to find a magic pill and are dangerously close to swallowing cyanide instead. The very thing you hope will be a step to cement your recovery could be it's undoing.
I don't think you are crazy. I think you are grasping at a straw though.
Your WW is hoping this distracts you, more or less.
We started a huge expensive house remodel after DDay 1. And this was after a year of MC, and she swore with tears in her eyes she loved me and was so, so sorry and would do anything to make her LTA up to me. And remodeling the house would be such a beautiful recommitment, yeah, yeah, yeah...
All while the LTA was still going on, for another 5 years.
And she had the same suggestion after DDay 2!
Sheesh.
Put your time and $$ into what will actually help you and your marriage, not just blow more fog into your lives. And, I might add, just increase financial stress in your marriage.
Yes, this is a diversion. Don't do it.
with prayers,
LOL...looks like this one is pretty one-sided.
How about if I add this: It's the PERFECT house. We love the neighborhood. It has the space we need for the kids. Good schools, etc.
So I guess my question now is: What are our likely chances for recovery? What are the success rates for recovery after an A? If there is a good chance we can recover from this, then at the end of the day we'll be in our dream house together.
TomFool
There are OTHER perfect houses and neighborhoods.
First fix the marriage. Your odds of recovering are entirely subject to the effort you BOTH put into it.
No way to predict that.
I am going to get it from others.......but i understand your POV.
i see your logics........
but is it that you are trying to buy her love?
are children involved?
If you put this purchase on hold......where are you both then at?
if you didnt have this option, what would you have done?
Just a thought..try create memories from spending time together(rules of protection)
vacations is a good start.......
dont try to "trap love" though.....this is just advice.
not a command.
Thanks nc.
I am definitely not trying to buy her love. She makes almost as much money as me. We do have 2 young girls, and they LOVE the house so far.
If we put the purchase on hold, I think we'd be in about the same place in our M. The focus would be on my own self-improvement, and gradually draw her out of withdrawal and into her own active attempts at recovery and self-improvement. The major difference is that we would definitely have more disposable income at our older, smaller house, which of course could make life easier and let us afford as much counseling as we need. I think we will still be able to continue counseling even in the new house though.
I am not trying to trap her. I think she is definitely trying to trap herself though.
I have to agree with everyone else TF.
I do NOT think this is a good idea at this time. Your M is very fragile right now. You do not need ANY additional stress on it at this point.
It is good that you want to make a grandeous gesture to prove your commitment to her. But she will be unable to appreciate that for MONTHS.
This grand gesture will not push (F)WW and you into recovery faster. I'm worried that it will have the opposite effect and create additional stress.
She's still in the Shock stage of this. Withdrawl woun't likely set in for weeks yet. Withdrawl could last for months depending upon how many "accidental" contacts she has.
I would highly recommend keeping things normal for quite a while, especially for your young COM. The stress that your (F)WWs' withdrawl will bring will be plenty enough to deal with.
A wise man (who founded this board) once mentioned. "You CAN NOT push anyone into recovery quicker. But you CAN delay it"
Stay Strong!
I don't think it is possible to make a logical decision so soon after Dday. It seems far too hasty under the circumstances, IMO.
Wait a minute. Your 1.5 year old daughter LOVES this house? I think you are trying to convince yourself that this is not a HUGE mistake.
By the way, how did she go from not discussing the details of the affair, to going to see the house together?
Let me ask you this question.
Can you reasonably afford the house on JUST your income...
The house AND your other expenses?
OK, the 1.5 year old also loves washing her hands in the toilet.
Very good question about how my W went from there to here. It surprised me too. It was all her idea. Like I said, she is trying to trap herself. She thinks that it will give her extra incentive to stay in the marriage and work on it. Her love for me had been declining for a long time, so she was ready to leave after I discovered the A. I took it as a very positive sign that she would be willing to buy a house with me, so I ran with the idea once it was out there.
I feel like the A was the kick in the stomach I needed to really evaluate my own life, my behavior, and my M. I feel like my eyes are open and I'm armed with knowledge and support now. In short, I feel that there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to recover. If the house is what she needs either as a way to trap herself in the short-term or as a test to see if I am going to be able to forgive her, then I'm ok with that.
...I think you can probably all picture a disillusioned TomFool 2 years from now laughing at the delusions of this post while soused on whiskey.
TomFool
..and sitting in his slum apt because he lost his house and his credit was shot with the bankruptcy.
Believer tapping foot and waiting for the answer to Noodle's post on finances...........
No, I can not afford the place by myself. Not even close.
I have a couple of questions:
1) Do you live in a community property state?
2) The house you currently own - was it purchased together during your marriage or did one of you own it before your current marriage?
I'll ask more questions after these are answered <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
BTW...I'm a firm believer that nobody should own a home that they can't afford on their own, without their spouse's income.
Tom,
FWIW, 2 weeks after D-day I would not say your WW has yet become a FWW. The "F" has to be earned. It is done by finding out what it was that led to the A in the first place. By that I don't mean "My needs weren't being met, so I looked elsewhere." Someplace, deep down, a WS has to realize that what they did was THEIR fault, not the BS's. The real question is this; "How was it possible for me to think that having an affair was the right thing to do, and how was I able to even consider the possibility?" That will lead to what must be "fixed" in the marriage.
Quoted here again this week: "Marriage isn't supposed to make you happy; it's supposed to make you MARRIED!"
When a WS can answer the question of how did I allow this to happen so that it can never happen again, even under the same conditions; then, and only then do they earn the title of FWS.
As for the house...My WW started talking about buying a new house, 500 miles from here, 10 days after D-day and 7 after telling me she wanted a DV and 5 days after telling me she could NEVER give up what she had w/OM.
As already stated, the first thing is to fix your M. NC MUST be established and then it takes about 2 or three weeks after that for the fog to even begin to lift. Before then, little can be done to restore the R, let alone committing to buying a new house.
JMHO.
Mark
It is a mistake to make a decision with so many emotions up in the air. You should never make such a life changing decision based on emotions of what you "think" will happen.
What you are saying sounds rational, and it is in the heat of the moment born of the need to repair what is broken between you two. WW don't think rationally. You want the M to work so YOU are not thinking rationally.
Imagine this scenario: You move to the house, it doesn't work, WW files for custody of the children & support. You are now NOT living in your dream-house, but the WW is in the dream-house with your children.
I would even go so far as to say that you are being selfish and living in a fantasy of your own. What would happen if it doesn't work and niether of you can afford the house ? What would all these moves do to your children's well-being ?
First fix the marriage ... and THEN move.
1) Yes (California)
2) We bought the house together. We've been on almost equal financial footing since we first met, although my income is now 25% higher than hers.
As for buying only a house I can afford on my own, well in this area, that would be no house at all I guess.
TomFool
Could you afford your current house on your own? I would certainly not advocate making a major change so soon after D-Day, especially if your W is not 100% committed to making this marriage work.
If the current house was purchased together during the marriage, then I don't have any other questions about it. I was concerned that perhaps somebody might be trying to get their hands on separate property by converting it to community property (buying a new house after marriage) - but if it's already community property then that isn't the case here.
It truly may be a motivator for your W to "trap herself" and force herself to want to fix this...but, it's a really expensive experiment, don't you think? All parties involved (betrayeds and waywards) are emotionally volatile right after D-Day...not the best time to be making major life decisions!
Please talk this over with someone in your family. You are not thinking straight. Do you really want a woman who has to be "trapped" into staying with you?
OK...
Can your marriage recover? Absolutely. I am one that can attest to the fact that one should NEVER say never....
This house is a long term deal...in the grand scheme of life it is one of the biggest decisions you will ever make in yoru life. the largest financial commitments you’ll make in your life..and in my opinion is just behind the commitment you make to your spouse.
So, in light of all of this let me ask you this. You have not been married but you planned on doing so, invitations in mail, payments made, people already in from out of town…..would you marry her 2 weeks after D-Day??
But…it sounds like you have already done this so….make due with what you have and work on your marriage…..In fact if I were you I’d change the subject…to helping you recover….cause you have a long….long road ahead of you…
She wants the house as a way to force herself to stay in the marriage and give rebuilding a shot.
substitute just ONE word.... to see if your premise sounds valid & logical right after D-day
~~~>She wants the baby as a way to force herself to stay in the marriage and give rebuilding a shot.<~~~
doesn't this sound like a nonsensical approach to a serious emotional/moral/marital dilemma?
Pep
I think the problem might be...that with the magical thinking element he MIGHT be game for something like that.
Hopefully he'll be along to respond...but if WW said honey bunches of oats what we need to do to motivate me to stay in this is get preggers...well I wouldn't expect a lot more clarity.
I REMEMBER this mindset and I remember being called on it by close friends.
I REMEMBER how I resisted and how upset and angry I felt when my fantasies were challenged and I was so invested in them.
Thank you all very much for your responses. It's really great having input from clearer heads that have BTDT.
It's all very sobering. I know you're right. Right about the house. Right about my magical thinking. In my fantasies I think I can turn this whole M around in no time. When I see recovery timelines of months and years, I think "that's for other people, not for us". We'll see how optimistic I feel if it's 6 months later and the W gives no affection, sex, positive words etc. Then as you've all said I'll be stuck in a house I can't afford with a W who doesn't love me.
Of course, if that's where the M is at in 6 months then the house will be the least of my problems.
TomFool
Well, you are very new here. Buying a new home isn't going to make much difference in the long run. Your marriage will either make it or not. But I think you are taking on more problems.
In the future, how about running your ideas by us BEFORE you take any action?
FWIW- my BH and I bought a house a couple months after d-day. He expressed the feeling that if we bought the house, by the time we moved in he'd be able to forgive me. Needless to say, that has not happened.
BUT- we do love our home, are having fun doing things together for it (shopping, planting grass seed, etc). BH cannot afford it on his own, either.
So I say that if you're in an area of CA that is still relativley hot real-estate wise, you really have nothing to lose.
IMVHO.
i think this is absolutely insane. you have no idea what is in store for you emotionally....even in the best of recoveries there are still really bad moments.
you need to think of your kids right now...putting them through this with the possibility of them also losing their home in the near future is a horrible idea.
after d-day i locked down all our finances.....i wouldnt agree to anything that was considered big spending for 4 yrs.....and i am glad i did.
Of course she suggested looking at a house. That's an excellent distraction for you. Right now you're on here asking about it instead of dealing with the real issues.
Real issues first, then real estate. The priorities should go in that order.
TF:
My BS and I had contracted to put in a pool at our house two weeks before Dday.
The dirt was to fly 5 days after Dday.
It was a huge step and we still had alot of decisions to make, and the bombshell of the A was thrown into the middle of it.
What is different?
We had been discussing adding the pool for 4-5 years. And I was in the middle of a LTA for 4.5 years at that point.
But I was busted. And I recommitted to M. I really did. No waffling on my part.
Are you sure that your W is at this point? Mine sure wasn't.
And she made darn sure that she could afford the pool and house after my butt was gone if it came down to that.
So, that is the choice.
And you are betting on a wild card. My BS did. And she seems to have won.
And the situation that you describe regarding your relationship with your W two weeks after dday is no where near as positive as mine was.
She is not intimate with you. Within 4 days we had had SF. But, it wasn't because I begged, I had to earn it. And I did. We had reconnected on a level that had never existed in our M. So you are not there with WS yet. The week after Dday was one of the most intense emotional periods in my life. Needless to say, it was for BS as well, but many other emotions that you can probably relate too.
We both had learned and internalized the Harley concepts, had ordered the books and even booked the MB W/E. I had done much of these things, proving my committment. What has your WS Done?
Do you know the root causes for the A in your M? Without rose colored glasses? And without the WS "just Agreeing" with you?
So, You have to sell your existing house, right?
Then you have to close on the new one. The market is somewhat slack right now. You have about 90 days before a real committment has to be made.
There are inspections and loan approvals and the buyer of your home that can throw this off track. And you can use these as an out if need be. If her heart hasn't come around yet.
So, look at the bottom line. Does buying the house make sense if this M blows up? You should be very skeptical of WS verbal actions and committments, only her PHYSICAL Actions should control.
Good luck either way...
Tom,
I disagree with all the posters. Buying your wife a new house is an excellant way to show you love her. It will make her forget the OM.
Besides, I have my commission to worry about.
LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
How about the PURE stress it is buillding a house? Are you building it? One good thing, if you are currently living close to the *new house....your own house won't be a disaster...if you were adding an addition.....I wouldn't recommend that. IDK....maybe NEW HOUSE = NEW START.
It's only been 3 weeks since our D-Day....we had plans of building a barn for my hubby's stuff and my 2 horses. His heart is not *in it*...I pray my husband wants to try as hard as you do. We ARE building the barn and I'm comprisming on orginal plans....no big deal....To me it's a sign that he wants me here. I just hate to see him stressed out more than he already is.