I am trying to find a way of confronting my wife but I cannot and wonder if anyone has a suggestion.

Here is my story. I'll try to be brief.

Several months ago my wife of 15 years started acting strangely towards me. I suspected something was amiss so I scrutinized her email and found out that she had been having an affair for 2 months. I knew she would question why I was in her computer so I told her I accidentally found the deleted email while running software updates. She insisted that it was not physical (although she admitted that she wanted it to become physical). I believed her when she said that it was not sexual). She said that she was not getting the emotional satisfaction from me that she needed. I confronted her with a copy of the email and she admitted the affair. We attended counseling and have pretty much patched things up. Unfortunately in her line of work, she still needs to talk to this individual and has also seen him again in a strictly professional capacity. We have spoken at length about it and I know there is nothing more between them. As far as I am concerned, this ordeal is over.

Being in the computer security and networking field, I did something that I am not proud of but felt I needed to since she had betrayed my trust and I wanted to ensure that when she said this affair was over, it was truly over. I rewired her computer connection so that it would run through a device that would capture all traffic to and from her computer. After her affair came to light, I started monitoring the traffic from her computer and saw nothing unusual except for some emails back and forth from a mutual friend.

After a month or two my monitoring became less and less as my trust for her became greater and greater. I would occasionally run the monitor but never even look at the results.

Yesterday I had some time to kill so I looked at some of the monitored emails and found some disturbing things. There are several emails per day to and from this mutual friend; lets call him “Bob”. Bob and my wife have always been close friends and I know that their banter can get a bit raunchy at times but it had always been on a plutonic nature. I once confronted my wife about her relationship with Bob and she told me there is nothing at all for me to worry about and that she and Bob have always been like that. Looking though the monitored emails most are of a sexual nature. Most appear to be in a joking kind of way but some indicate her desire to be with him. They joked about his erection and oral sex. She mentioned that she wished she could be with him and she thinks about him when she goes to bed. She asked him about internet sex amongst other things.

The emails are actually quick one or two liners that go back and forth, not long love stories so I was initially inclined to believe that they were just jokes between friends but in light of the prior affair, I am very concerned about them. My wife acts completely normal with me and outwardly, there is no indication whatsoever that this is going on. (During her previous affair I could definitely tell that something was wrong).

So here is my dilemma. How do I handle this? If I confront my wife, she will want to know how I found out about the emails. She uses a web-based email program and always deletes the conversation so I cannot say I saw it in the sent folder or recycle bin. I do not want my wife to know that I am spying on her. I feel terrible about spying on the woman I love and adore but it was the only way I could ensure that her previous affair was over. I want to confront her and tell her that what she is doing is wrong but I do not know how to tell her without revealing my source of information.

Confront her with your evidence and decline to tell her HOW you got the information. She already knows the truth, so you don't need to prove to her what she already knows. Tell her you know that she is contact on XYZ, etc. [give her enough details so she knows you know] If she asks how you know, tell her you will not reveal your source.

also, there is nothing wrong with spying when you have good reason, and you do. It is wrong to commit adultery, it is NOT WRONG to catch someone. You have a obligation to protect yourself and you did. The real shame is that you were put in this position by an untrustworthy spouse.

p.s. you didn't spy on her because she was singing too loud in church, but because she is untrustworthy. And your suspicions were validated so it is a good thing you spied on her.

Agree with ML...simply tell her that you know that she's engaged in extremely hurtful and inappropriate behavior with Bob. Tell her that at this point, she needs to drop all contact with Bob...completely.

When she insists on knowing how you know...tell her point blank that you're not going to tell her...HOW is unimportant...the fact that she is DOING it is the focus. Make it clear that you're not going to focus the conversation on that, but on getting the problem fixed.

Once that's done, then you can also start working with her to setup some more appropriate personal boundaries in what she should be discussing with people outside of your marriage.

You really should get into marriage counseling to work through this.

Block Bob's email address and cut off all access to him. Is Bob married? If so, expose your email log to his wife.

The problem with confronting her with the evidence is that she will know that I have a way to see what she sends on her computer, even if she does not know how I do it. She could then find other ways to communicate with Bob that I would not know about. I cannot control her phone or email usage at work. She knows I am very computer-savvy and if I have information like that, she would loose trust in me. She talks to him at work on the phone and meets him occasionally for lunch. She has told me this quite nonchalantly knowing I would think nothing of it since we are all friends.

The only reason I am monitoring my wife’s on-line usage is to gain my trust in her once again. As my original post states, I was getting to the point of not monitoring the network anymore but now I feel as though my trust in her has been broken.

I do not want to divulge the monitoring issue to her because, as ridiculous as this might seem, I want to see if this sort of communication stays at the current level or if something deeper is happening. She has always joked with Bob in this fashion so perhaps I am being too sensitive.

And yes, Bob is married, happily at that.

You don't understand, cannot. This ALREADY IS an affair and will only get worse unless and until you stop it.

And secondly, what is the PURPOSE of snooping if not to PREVENT an affair? There is no point to all this if you are not going to USE this intelligence productively. What else would be the point?


huh? Lose trust? For what? Are you having an affair? I don't understand what you mean here.

OK...you only monitored her to gain your trust in her again.

AND SHE'S BROKEN IT AGAIN!!!

So, now you're back to having no trust. What do you do?

Confront her with her inappropriate actions, set appropriate boundaries, and once again give her the chance to regain that trust...by allowing you to see that she's trustworthy. Obviously, right now, SHE's NOT.

Why wait for it to get worse? It's VERY CLEAR that it's wayyyy wrong for her to have said and done what she has...that's across ANY normal person's boundary.

You need to quit worrying about being sensitive, and step up and protect your marriage. If you do nothing...nothing will change. She'll keep going down this path...because nothing is stopping her from doing so. Not her own boundaries, and not yours.

As far as her figuring out how you knew...its a risk, but let me ask you this:

What value is having the ability to see what she's doing if you're not going to do something about it when she's clearly doing something wrong?

Confront. Heck...log into her email account, and forward on those emails to Bob's wife. If this is all 'just friends'...she couldn't possibly be upset by any of this, could she???

Seriously...time to step up here. You already knew the answer to your question when you posted here...you just need to make it happen.

No, he is not. His wife should receive a copy of those emails so she knows she has a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

BINGO! I wager $100 the affair will end THAT DAY if you do this. CASE CLOSED.

Cannot,

""There are several emails per day to and from this mutual friend; lets call him “Bob”""

Ok, mutual friend as in he is your friend too? I think you need to talk to Bob and tell him, friend to friend, that the emails make you uncomfortable and would like him to cease and desist....and if he doesn't, saying they are no big deal, then advise him that you will let HIS WIFE in on the joke. So you all can have a good chuckle from these steamy emails.

Don't be surprised if some cybersex starts showing up on your monitor.

IMHO

kirk

cgu,

Take those emails and give a copy to Bob's wife, and I guarantee that Bob and your wife will not be allowed to talk again. Problem solved. Don't worry about your wife getting angry, she'll get over it in a few weeks. Worry about her screwing Bob. Even if she hasn't had sex with him yet, they are laying the groundwork to have sex in the future. It is not "innocent" flirting for two married people of the opposite sex to be discussing graphic sexual acts. She IS cheating, just not the conventional sense. This is at the very least virtual cheating and could easily progress (if it already hasn't) into real adultery. Cut it off at the knees RIGHT NOW! Contact Bob's wife today with your evidence, but tell her not to share with Bob how she got it. Make sure you tell her that you do not want Bob contacting your W ever again.

Well said, Jim.

CGU, Jim's nailed it. You don't need friends like Bob. He's intruding into your marriage and you need to get him out of it NOW.

Quote:
________________________________________

She knows I am very computer-savvy and if I have information like that, she would loose trust in me.
________________________________________


huh? Lose trust? For what? Are you having an affair? I don't understand what you mean here.
---------------------------------------------------------

My rationale for saying she would loose trust in me is based on how I would feel if I found out that my spouse was “spying” on me. It would make me uneasy to send email from my computer knowing that I was being monitored. Everyone replying to my post seems unanimous on what I should do. It’s easier to see a different perspective when presented with one.

I will not bring Bob’s wife into the picture. (For the moment anyway) I cannot forward emails since she deletes them but I can re-create what my network sniffer has captured and present her with that.

I am still a little hesitant because even though I am concerned about her dialog with Bob, our relationship after her first affair has been great. We no longer see a counselor and have both agreed that we get along better now than before. There is no emotional or physical indication from her that this dialog is going on. It was very different the first time around. Perhaps that is why I am attempting to justify my hesitance. I know what the readers to this thread will say and I agree with all so in spite of my hesitance, I will confront her.

What is the point of you posting here if you don't listen to our advice? Doesn't Bob's wife deserve to know? You are not going to get anyone to respond to your thread if you just ignore us and do your own thing. If you want your wife to screw Bob, that's fine, don't listen. People only have a problem being spied on if they are doing something wrong. Do you want access to my email? I have nothing to hide. If she has a problem with you monitoring her emails after she has cheated and is in the process of cheating again, then she shouldn't be married to you. This is my last post to you until you tell Bob's wife. Doesn't she deserve to know before her husband screws another woman?

My XH only started to have a problem with me seeing his email once his EA started. Before that, we shared the same email.

It didn't become "snooping" until he had something to hide.

A recovering adulterer needs to be transparent. If they are NOT, then they are not attempting to establish broken trust. If they don't care if you trust them or not, then why bother. Either you want your marriage or not. It is that simple. The rule is simple. Engrave it on your forhead so you can see it if you shave.

Neither of you should do anything behind the other's back you wouldn't do in front of them, period, the end.

If your wife doesn't respect you, how does avoiding the task of insuring her fidelity by holding her accountable for what she does gonna make her respect you less? Are you afraid of what she is going to do? What about what she has already done - to bring things into perspective.

Larry

CGU:

Your wife is hiding stuff from you.

Her first EA, Now this one.

She isn't logging on and sending these jokes/emails/innuendo to BOB with a "CC" to you is she?

No. Cause she doesn't want you to know.

So. You can email Bob. And tell him to stop. "Bob, you have crossed over the line with Mrs CGU. Stop NOW."

He might, he might not. You do not have to threaten him with telling his W.

If the emails continue, then you send them to his W. Give him a week. Print them off and mail them to W with a cover letter.

"Bob's W:

I recently discovered that your H was co-oresponding via email with my W. I know we are family friends, but I thought that some of these are going beyond marital boundaries.

Please contact me at xxx-xxxx if you have any further questions.

I have been terribly troubled since I discovered this information 1 week ago. Mrs CGU and I are going to be working on fixing our M.

CGU

Short, sweet and to the point.

Don't threaten, he will go to his W, and tell her you are crazy.

And since he doesn't know how you know, you can monitor the emails and find out what he does with your W.

And can your W use other methods to speak with Bob? Text, Cell, Semaphores, smoke signals?

Yes.

But that is her choice. If she wants to crawl into his lap, that's her choice too.

We can help you to monitor these methods as well.

BTW, you never even have to say a word to your W about methods or anything else.

If Bob stops contacting your W? Problem solved with Bob. And you have never revealed your sources.

If Bob doesn't stop contacting your W, Then the problem isn't solved and other methods need to be used.

And you can find that assistance around her also.

And have you read His Needs, Her Needs (HNHN) yet?

Your W is missing something in her M with you. Do you have any ideas as to what they might be?

Speaking of assistance....

LG

I still don't understand what you are talking about. It is untrustworthy to have an affair, it is NOT UNTRUSTWORTHY to catch someone having an affair. Do you think that the police are "untrustworthy" when they catch drug dealers? No one has the right to the privacy to have an affair.



It is a huge mistake to not bring her into the picture. First off, she has a right and a need to know. Secondly, it will help stop the affair, and yes this is an affair, if there are two people watching from both ends.


Please trust us that this is the right thing to do. We say this in the INTEREST of your marriage because we know where this is headed if you don't. This IS an affair NOW and she is sinking headlong into a fantasy world. You have the power in your hands to stop that free fall.

Ok, I had to think about it:


In my opinion.

You are afraid. You are afraid you are right and she is starting to slide down the hill again or has already slid. This is called cranial recticulitous. You are afraid that if you confront her and she isn't doing anything, she will. You are afraid that you are right and she has once again crossed the line. You are afraid that if you say anything, she will bail on you. You hope that if you keep silent, she will see the light all by herself.

Ok, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Your first step is to conquer your fear. And the reason is that until you do, she is in control of the gradual decline of your marriage to the point where she is gone with the wind. You must conquer your fear or you will not have her respect. You must conquer your fears because they paralyse you. You must grow a pair and draw up boundaries in your relationship. There is a difference between boundaries and controlling another person.

Study the difference. Respect yourself so someone else will respect you too.

Larry

Ok Ok JMWC95. I get the point. Looking by the number of posts you have made, it seems like you (and many others) have made it their point to advise posters although I would believe I am not the first to display hesitation at your suggestions. Obviously each situation is different but the outcome remains the same.

I spent a few hours this evening compiling my list of email messages going back 3 months. I highlighted the actual text so it would stand out from the unneeded data. I found that the tone of the emails has become more suggestive and I am not done compiling yet. I have a few more files to go through but its 12:35AM and my wife is asleep next to me. She was her usual self after returning late from work; so different from the last affair during which she was almost contemptuous toward me. She knows that something is wrong with me though and has asked me on several occasions if I am ok to which I have answered “just feeling out-of-sorts”

Since I have several young children, I need to confront her with the evidence when the children are not around so I’ll attempt to make time this weekend. (The whole family will be together tomorrow night)

As far as telling Bob’s wife, I know many would believe it is the right thing to do. I am certainly not ruling that out. Unfortunately it’s an extremely difficult situation that will affect more than the four of us. In fact, I saw both Bob and his wife today and both are very involved in our church. It was so difficult to shake his hand but I had to. In spite of your insistence with me discussing this with her, I will take it one step at a time and talk to my wife, letting her know that I will be talking to Bob’s wife. I’ll gauge her reaction.

Don’t say I am not heeding the advice of members of this group. Quite the contrary. I was initially going to wait and monitor for a few more weeks but I will not wait. I’ll talk to her at the first opportunity.

I'm back!

A lot of times a WS will act pissed off to try and manipulate you into getting what they want. You need to be the one that lays out the law. Don't let her bully you. I would suggest something to the effect of, "Either you agree to NC with Bob, or you can find somewhere else to stay until you do. I'm not supporting you so you can just cheat on me and humiliate me again." Show her you mean business. If you show her you have no fear, she won't have anything to manipulate you with.

Good for you for standing up for yourself. I wish I would have done so sooner. I might not have had to endure two and a half months of he11.

CGU,

It's time to be the man. Your WW is repeat cheating because she does not respect you. Why should she? You do not respect yourself. What ever is happening right now is the result of your WW bad choices and your own lack of action.

I had less "concrete" proof to go with than you do when I confronted Mrs GF. She actually found one of my voice activated recorders and asked me about it. I hadn;t yet confronted because I didn't have "enough" proof.

I told her I was using it to ascertain the nature of her affair. She told me she wasn't having an affair. I said that knew unequivocally that she was. Then I shut up. Neither one of us said anything for about 10 minutes, I was exhausted and thought I might fall asleep so I asked her, "Now that it's out in the open what are you going to do?"

She knew the truth, she knew I knew at least some of the truth but not how much and she didn't know how I knew. she agreed to no contact that night. I wish I would have ended my nightmare sooner. You can.

Hey Cannot.... be a man... fight this head on. It won't be long before your wife is giving this guy a blow job if you keep up with the current course of action.... if the visual of that is not enough to stir you to action... I suggest that you get used to the idea of being second fiddle.

ML has offered you great advice as have others here. We have seen this all before and YOU are putting this affair in a gift box for your wife and Bob based on your current actions.

Go stick your foot in Bob's butt... let him know to never contact your wife again. Tell his wife everything... she has a right to know. Tell your pastor too. And screw the job... the need to have no contact for LIFE. Get the picture yet.... if not... imagine your wife dropping to her knees...

sorry to be so graphic cannot... but you seem to be missing the severity of this issue.

I had something VERY similar happen with my husband and my neighbor. I confronted my husband who admitted to everything and then I went straight to the neighbor's husband and clued him in. Afterward, the neighbor continued to email my husband, but he was honest with me and showed me every email. He did not repond to her until he came up with a "Good-bye" email I was comfortable with. She has not contacted him again since he sent that email--it also told her he had shared EVERY detail of their affair with me.

Best of luck to you. I don't think you have to destroy another marriage to regain your own, but it takes both of you to be willing to work very diligently through the crisis.

I think the usual advice here is NOT TO GIVE ANY WARNING that you will be exposing the inappropriate relationship to the OMW. Your wife will warn Bob and he'll have time to do damage control...possibly ruining the effectiveness of the exposure.

CGU

My H had an affair. The OW was a friend. We were friendly with another couple. It started with inappropriate and sexually suggestive banter.

Please listen to this. Your W is having an affair. It is NOT ok to be talking about erections or oral sex to ANYBODY except for you, period. If it were "just the way they are" then why, as someone else pointed out, arent they including YOU and Bob's W? I mean, it is innocent, right?

You need to take those emails and send them to the OM's W IMMEDIATELY. I know from whence I speak. My H ended his affair w the OW in March of last year. The OW's H knew. I did not. Guess what?? The affair continued until late April. When did it end? On the very day I found out. All of March and April, the affair continued and they continued to lie to the OW's H, telling him it was over. Had the OW's H told me in March, I have little doubt it would really have ended then. I wont even get in to a discussion on WHY the OM's W has every right to know.

I know you believe your situation is unique. That involving the OM's W in this would be "difficult" and there are more than the "4 of you" involved. Im sorry to say that your situation is NOT unique in any way. It is ALWAYS difficult for everyone. It NEVER impacts just the "4 of you" . In my situation, both families had 3 children each so there were 6 children involved, plus extended families, friends etc.... There is absolutely nothing unique about your situation.

Your W OWES you honesty and transparency. She had an A that appears to be on going. She has just figured out more clever ways to hide it. You should not feel guilty about checking up on her. She lost that right to privacy when she decided to have an A.

If you want this to stop, EXPOSE NOW TO THE OM's W. I cannot stress that enough. Then, end ALL contact. New job, no contact w "Bob", new community if you have to. FIGHT for your marriage and your wife.

I would suggest that you NOT tell your wife BEFORE you tell Bob's wife, but AFTER. She must be told, most especially since she sees your wife and is unaware that your w is a DANGER to her and her children. She needs to know the truth and should not be allowed to be exposed to your W as long as she is ignorant of these pertinent facts.

The reason you should not tell your W BEFORE is because if you warn your wife of this, she will warn the OM, who will, in turn SPIN THE STORY and pre-empt you. You can count on the OM to spin this as "just friends" and you are sort of nutty and insanely jealous husband. So, when you do call, she won't believe you becuase you will have been thoroughly discredited as a nut.

The best thing all around is to simply call up the OMW shortly after you confront your W and tell her, make arrangements to give her the emails. Don't tell anyone you plan on doing this, just do it. I assure you that your W will find out soon enough.

ditto Mel

Please believe what Mel has told you. We have seen it over and over.

If you tell your W, she will tell OM, and they will spin it to make you look bad, and to look like they are innocent. You can't imagine the stories they can/will dream up.

Realize some things -
1. The nature of the friendship has already changed. The damage has already been done by the affair.

2. Telling OM's W does not change the relationship, it is the result of a relationship that is already changed.

3. You can't go back to what it used to be. There is no way. Dr Harley has studied this for years. He's the expert, and he says there should be no contact if you want your marriage to last.

4. The sooner you talk to OM's W, and the sooner your W ceases contact with OM, the more quickly you can begin to recover your M.

Now think on these things. You KNOW it's not right for her to be talking this way to him, and he to her. You know she lied to you when she said it was innocent. If she lied about that, there may be many more things you don't know. Please do what will give you the best chance of recovery.

Watch your W's reaction to what you do. If there is an active, ongoing affair, she will be angry, and you will feel her wrath. Know then that you are doing the right thing, and that you have probably prevented it from getting much worse.

SS

Double dittos on what Melody said.

Friend, you're awfully invested in shielding your WW and OM from the consequences of what they're doing. I don't understand why. They certainly haven't shown any consideration for you or the other man's wife. It is they who have behaved inappropriately. Quit enabling the adultery, man. Exposing the obscenity is the best way to stop it. Do it now and get started on the rest of Plan A.

What can I say other than I have never “met” a nicer more caring bunch of “know-it-alls”. I say that truthfully and unfortunately I am right. It sounds like most of you offering advice to me have all been there before. How sorry I am that you have been in situations like mine and frankly, a lot worse. I cannot thank you all enough for opening my eyes.

In spite of what I have told you, the outward appearance of my marriage is solid. We get along nicely and are always friendly and affectionate toward each other. We have solved our prior issues and both want to work at a stronger marriage…..or so it seemed.

I have been feeling awful all day. Not about my discovery but about the fact that I know what I need to do. I have been rehearsing dialogs in my mind all day. My wife will be home later tonight and I have all the email evidence (backed up too) and I will confront her and then tell Bob’s wife. You are right. She needs to know.

When I confronted my wife about her first affair, she was genuinely upset that she had hurt me. At that time, we were going through a rough emotional period. She insisted that we go for counseling and showed great resolve in making our marriage work. I have found out that the emails between her and Bob go back even before her first affair.

I know you will all disagree but I believe that she thinks she is doing nothing wrong. My wife has always been the joking type and has no qualms about being “one-of-the-boys” and can tell a dirty joke like the rest of us. Perhaps this is why I was hesitant to do anything initially. “She was just being her usual dirty self” I thought to myself. Reading the emails makes me believe that she has definitely overstepped the boundary.

CGU

Im sorry to say that what you are describing isnt "hangin' w the boys" type of behavior.

It is blatently putting out bait to see who snaps it up. There is a vast difference between telling a dirty joke and telling someone "I think about you as Im going to bed". Do you see the difference? Your wife is trolling. I hate to say it but it seems clear to me.

You deserve so much better, my friend.

I will be thinking of you. Im sorry for what is sure to be an unpleasant weekend.

If she's doing nothing wrong then I'm sure she won't mind when you forward the emails to Bob's wife.

What would you rather have. A seemingly solid M on the outside where your wife is secretly fantasizing about another man and will eventually (if she hasn't already) act out on her fantasies, or a rough spot in your M where you need to work on some things but your wife hasn't slept with someone else? Those are your choices.

Hiya CGU:

Hokay, here it is;



Listen to what the women on here are telling you. This is one of the few places in the world, other than your sisters if you have any, where what women do and why can be revealed in all of its spendor to, gasp, males. Yep, how women troll is one of those somewhat secret things.

She may or may not be trolling for sex. She may just be looking for a reaction. Then she looks again. She likes it. And so on. But it ISN'T innocent. And women can spot that kinda garbage a mile off on a foggy day.

Ever read the 15 steps to an affair? Women often fall in that trap by just wanting a little bit of reaction to validate that they are sexy. Good luck. Women don't like for their dirty laundry to be invited to wash day.

Larry

>She mentioned that she wished she could be with him and >she thinks about him when she goes to bed. She asked him >about internet sex amongst other things.

Wow, sounds just like me right before reeling in a male friend for cyber or webcam sex (err...the old me, rather). Seriously, this is not the behavior of a women who is trying to keep herself out of trouble, not unless she's got some serious self-deception problems as well (which is possible.)

Confront her..if she gets mad, says you violated her privacy, etc. point out to her that she is not very good at monogamy (as her track record proves) and needs your help setting boundaries to keep herself out of further trouble.

I confronted her last night(what a relief!!) and we spend many hours talking. I'll post what we discussed very soon. I'm not alone right now so I cannot elaborate but I took a quick moment to update this thread.

So now that you've confronted her, what's your status? You noted that you were relieved...I'm curious what led to that?

Sorry to say that this really baffles and infuriates the bloody he!! out of me to hear people say stuff like this.

My wife had an affair. Other people knew. They didn't tell me. They put myself, my son, my wife, and my marriage in jeopardy because they thought they were doing the 'right' thing and minding their own business.

That man's wife is being kept in the dark by you now.

You found it appropriate to monitor and record everything that occurs on your wifes computer (and it IS appropriate). But you are now deciding that the other wife should have access to none of this?!!!?

How would you feel if she were doing this to you?

I know that this will come as quite a surprise to all that have helped me cope over the past few days. I bet a few folks will be downright angry with my post but I feel that I need to explain the situation.

I confronted my wife and we spoke at length. The situation with Bob is as follows.

My wife has always been a joker. Ever since I knew her, she has always been “one of the guys” and yes, her banter can revolve around what many, including me, consider as too forward. I guess this never really bothered me much until it came to light over the past few weeks.

My wife had an emotional affair with a man 8 months ago. Nothing physical happened. We were not getting along both physically or emotionally and it showed. My wife was not looking for anyone. It just happened. I found an email and we went into counseling. We worked hard and have since rebounded back and have what we considered was a wonderful relationship. Of course I then found evidence of her emails to Bob.

I was reluctant to do anything about it, as indicated in my previous posts because I could not believe what I was reading, given the state of our relationship so I came here.

On confronting my wife, it turns out that these emails have been going back and forth for the last 5 years. My wife insists that there is nothing going on between her and Bob. In fact, she told me of an instance where her and an ex co-worker used to joke around in a similar fashion.

I can see other posters on this forum cringe at this point but you need to believe what I am saying. Even though the context of the emails disturbs me, it was written in my wife’s usual joking way. Sexual, but still joking.

My wife was very upset and cried at the fact that I was hurt at what I had found out. Nothing was said as to how I found out. In fact, she told me about conversations that she had with Bob that I knew about (she did not know that I knew) and her description was exactly as I had read it. In other words, she was not trying to hide anything. She was honest and sincere. We talked for hours.

Marriage is about trust. Unfortunately it can be easily broken. That is why we are all here. My trust had been broken before but the circumstance was completely different. In this case, the situation does not warrant a loss of trust…as much as some would disagree with me. I am not ready to throw in the towel since I fully accept her explanation. One can tell whether you are being fed a line of crap or whether you are getting a genuine explanation and I truly believe what I heard. After 15 years of marriage with very few downs and mostly ups, I have forgiven her for her previous affair and believe what she has told me.

My wife did agree to tone down the rhetoric so as not to offend me anymore. She agreed that, looking from my perspective, it was inappropriate.

In closing, I truly hope that those worse off than me find comfort and compassion in groups such as this from caring individuals such as those who helped me last week.

No offense, but you need to protect your M. This Bob fellow would screw your W if given the chance. She needs to understand that fact and start protecting your M, so the next time things get rough, Bob doesn't get his opportunity to bang your W. Don't let it fool you. Bob would bang your wife if given the opportunity. He keeps pushing the envelope further and further. You are a guy. You know these things. We wouldn't send suggestive emails to someone we weren't trying to bed. Bob is a POS. Your W may just like the attention, but Bob's intentions are not pure. I still say that Bob's wife should know so she can put an end to his "flirtatious" ways. I would suggest these boundaries to help protect your M:

1) Tell Bob's W about the emails. She may not be as okay with it as your W is.

2) NO discussing sex with members of the opposite sex.

3) NO dinners, lunches, any alone time with members of the opposite sex.

You need to protect your M because your W WILL have an EA (or PA) again if these issues aren't addressed.

No one has mentioned that your W IS still working with the previous OM, and thats a bit of powder keg in it's own right. That's a recipe for disaster, as Harley recommends no contact for life.

You are playing with fire, having described private lunches between your W and Bob, not to mention the explicit e-mails.

I would be reluctant to let her out of my sight if she were my W, especially after one EA (taking only YOUR word that it never went PA, but that's another story).

I'd let things go quiet for a spell, and consider a GPS device, and possibly even hire a PI to investigate these lunches, or whatever.

Your wife's mind is in an entitled state, which does not bode well for your marriage, IMHO.

Best wishes,
SD

This clearly shows that your wife is beyond just sending 'explicit' emails.

You're hiding yourself from the truth. This is way beyond what anyone would count as acceptable, and to me indicate the foundings of ANOTHER EA...at least!

I personally expect to see you back on the forum within a year...once she goes through with it and cheats again, either with Bob or someone else. And this next time, it WILL be physical, for sure.

Your wife (WW) has some real issues. She is one of those women who is craving acceptance, to be desired by men. Look at me, Look at me, Am I pretty, Aren't I sexy.

She is missing something. There is a hole she is trying to plug with the admiration and attentiveness of men. What was her R like with her father? Was she adopted?

Bob's wife needs to know in order to help you.

Cannotgiveup, an A (whether it’s EA and/or PA) never “just happen”. Who told you that? Your W? If she claims that her previous EA “just happened”, then she’s in denial and has not yet taken full responsibility for her actions.

As a FWW who was involved in an EA myself I can tell you there are ALWAYS a series of tiny choices and steps involved that lead to infidelity…and weak boundaries with friends of the opposite sex (that usually lead to EA’s) are one of those choices… And this time with Bob, your W has chosen AGAIN to have weak boundaries with a person of the opposite sex. It seems she have weak boundaries with the opposite sex overall and in general (similar “jokes” with an ex co-worker). I get the impression that you W hasn’t learned anything from her previous EA.

I hope she can also see that her behavior was not just inappropriate and offensive towards you but also towards another man’s wife. And that Bob’s behavior is equally inappropriate and offensive towards you and his own W. I think your W must not just “tone down” with this type of behavior but switch it off completely. I’m afraid if she’s not going to stop this sexual jokes TOTALLY and develop very strong and appropriate boundaries with the opposite sex, then another A is waiting to "happen".

A fellow named Heinlein used to write about how easy it was to lie by telling the truth. Your wife is telling you the truth. So you validate her. Which changes nothing. Heinlein says;

1. I do know that the slickest way to lie is to tell the right amount of truth - then to shut up.

2. To tell the truth so unconvincingly that everyone thinks you are lying. Which doesn't necessarily apply here.

3. To tell a person what they want to hear and let them lie to themselves to define what they think think of as the truth.

There are others. You either have boundaries in your relationship with your wife or you don't You are either willing to enforce those boundaries or you are not. You have either explained your boundaries or left them up to her imagination. In no way am I suggesting that you attempt to control your wife, only yourself.

Women and cats do as they please, men and dogs have to put up with it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Heinlein said that one too.

Your wife is doing what pleases her for her own reasons and that makes you uncomfortable, as it should. She attempts to persuade you that her intentions are benign and mean nothing. If what she does means nothing, why does she do it?

Larry

Wow...another Heinlein fan on MB...who'd a thunk?

He was great until he had a stroke, then he got off on polyamory and other dead ends. Which has nothing to do with his basic observation of humanity and the wisdom of those observations.

For example and as a one off so this doesn't become a thread jack:

“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and -- thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.”

end of threadjack.

Larry

cannot-

Growing up as John's twin sister, in a neighborhood full of boys and with 6 boys cousins nearby-I also was "one of the guys" and have the scars and skills to prove it (I can belch with the best of them and taught my boys how to do armpit farts).

IMHO-the kind of things your wife has been saying/emailing etc. are over the line even for "the guys".

Please listen to what others are saying.

CGU...

All the, ahem, "stuff" that your wife fed you and you lapped up aside, when are you sending copies of those emails to Bob's wife? Because, I "GUARANTOLD" ya that she will NOT see things as you do...She will NOT appreciate her husband talking to another woman the way Bob has been talking to your wife, or the way that your wife has been talking to her husband...And you bet your sweet bippy Skippy that she has EVERY right to know...Keeping this dirty little secret is just plain CRUEL...I certainly hope you will not do that...So, CGU, when are you telling Bob's wife?

As a FWW myself, I can tell unequivocably that your wife has NOT solved what is wrong inside her that allowed her to have an affair-She continues to not protect her weaknesses and play fast and loose with your life and the lives of your children...I know that so deep within my core that I am literally SCREAMING to you from this side of the computer...I keep asking myself just what I can say to you to help you KNOW this FACT...I want so much for you to get this...I want so much for your wife to get this...Because if you don't, I can promise you that another train wreck is just around the corner and you are ALL going to suffer greatly for not addressing this...And your children will be the most tragic casualties of your choosing to bury your head in the sand...I am BEGGING you to listen to me...Will you? I've stood where your wife now stands...I GET THIS...I WOULD LOVE TO HELP YOU...But first you must agree to help yourself...

I have more to say, but before I do, I need to know if you are a willing participant...CGU, Can you hear me? Will you hear me?

Please let me know, k?

Mrs. W

CGU, there’s another saying that I rely upon from time to time in situations such as the one you present us with. It goes something like, “There is none so blind as he who will not see.”

Pardner, you’re getting advice from people who’ve already been where you don’t think you are and they’re giving you the benefit of their own life-shattering experiences. CGU, you say you believe your wife, but she’s been lying to you for at least five years. She writes explicit emails to another man, wishing she could have sex with him, and you say it’s only fantasy...and she’s sorry? She told you so, right?

Mister, it’s more likely she’s sorry she’s been found out but all is not lost. Heck, she talked her way out of it pretty well, didn’t she? You bought it hook, line, and sinker. Nothing in your post says anything about her changing her attitudes or behavior.

No sir, you cannot tell when a WS is lying. That’s what cheaters do. They lie...and they do it very, very well. Look, man, you didn’t detect her EA until it was well underway, or over, did you? That was because she was being truthful, honest, and showed she was maintaining the highest standards of personal integrity, right? Yeah! Sure she was.

How can you not see she was lying all the while it was going on? She hid things from you. She deceived you about her feelings. She took time off from the marriage to do something intensely selfish and something that excludes you totally. And you? Heck, you give her a pass. After all, marriage is about trust, you say. Yes it is...and she’s certainly shown how trustworthy she is, hasn’t she?

I’ll echo Owl’s comment. You’re going to need MB badly at some point in the future, probably sooner, rather than later. Your wife has a history of deceit and dishonesty. It is going to manifest itself a little later in your relationship too, but you won’t believe it until it explodes right in front of you. When you come back, CGU, we’ll still be here for you.

Good luck.

Thread jack


Add me to the list...and I even know from which of Mr. Heinlein's books Larry is quoting. I thought the comment about the city fathers of Carthage was especially revealing in that continuing “discussion” in that book, as was the reference to potatoes, if you recall that. Actually…I endorse the voting requirements expressed in that novel too. Uh oh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

End thread jack

You are married. It is not OK for your wife to be "one of the boys". There is absolutely no room for flirting or sexually explicit dialogue. It doesn't matter if it is "just in fun". It is not OK for a married person to have a "friend" of the opposite sex. Study WH basic concepts and open your eyes.

Okay, Cannot, let's say your wife is telling the truth. It is of course much easier for you and her if she is.

You need to tell your wife that what she is doing is over the line, looking for trouble, and innapropriate within a marriage. Tell her that is she would not share it with you and Bob's wife, it isn't appropriate. Next, tell her that you no longer feel comfortable with her having any interaction with Bob. Saying that she is thinking of him before she goes to sleep is not cool with you. Finally, tell her since she has broken trust, she needs to work on repairing the trust (again) by giving you the password to her email and that she needs to keep copies of all her email.

I also like Heinlin, although I have to admit it was because of Stranger in a Strange Land (his polyamory story).

Some fantasies are best left as, er, fantasies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I did enjoy the book though but not because of polyamory.

Lordy, Lordy, if two person relationships are THAT complex, just imagine (outside the sex) just how complex a three or four way deal would be. Most of the polyamory sites I have seen on the web have an undercurrent of tension and aftermaths that are not attractive to guys like me who like to keep it as simple as possible so I can understand the dynamics.

Larry