No offense, but you need to protect your M. This Bob fellow would screw your W if given the chance. She needs to understand that fact and start protecting your M, so the next time things get rough, Bob doesn't get his opportunity to bang your W. Don't let it fool you. Bob would bang your wife if given the opportunity. He keeps pushing the envelope further and further. You are a guy. You know these things. We wouldn't send suggestive emails to someone we weren't trying to bed. Bob is a POS. Your W may just like the attention, but Bob's intentions are not pure. I still say that Bob's wife should know so she can put an end to his "flirtatious" ways. I would suggest these boundaries to help protect your M:

1) Tell Bob's W about the emails. She may not be as okay with it as your W is.

2) NO discussing sex with members of the opposite sex.

3) NO dinners, lunches, any alone time with members of the opposite sex.

You need to protect your M because your W WILL have an EA (or PA) again if these issues aren't addressed.

No one has mentioned that your W IS still working with the previous OM, and thats a bit of powder keg in it's own right. That's a recipe for disaster, as Harley recommends no contact for life.

You are playing with fire, having described private lunches between your W and Bob, not to mention the explicit e-mails.

I would be reluctant to let her out of my sight if she were my W, especially after one EA (taking only YOUR word that it never went PA, but that's another story).

I'd let things go quiet for a spell, and consider a GPS device, and possibly even hire a PI to investigate these lunches, or whatever.

Your wife's mind is in an entitled state, which does not bode well for your marriage, IMHO.

Best wishes,
SD

This clearly shows that your wife is beyond just sending 'explicit' emails.

You're hiding yourself from the truth. This is way beyond what anyone would count as acceptable, and to me indicate the foundings of ANOTHER EA...at least!

I personally expect to see you back on the forum within a year...once she goes through with it and cheats again, either with Bob or someone else. And this next time, it WILL be physical, for sure.

Your wife (WW) has some real issues. She is one of those women who is craving acceptance, to be desired by men. Look at me, Look at me, Am I pretty, Aren't I sexy.

She is missing something. There is a hole she is trying to plug with the admiration and attentiveness of men. What was her R like with her father? Was she adopted?

Bob's wife needs to know in order to help you.

Cannotgiveup, an A (whether it’s EA and/or PA) never “just happen”. Who told you that? Your W? If she claims that her previous EA “just happened”, then she’s in denial and has not yet taken full responsibility for her actions.

As a FWW who was involved in an EA myself I can tell you there are ALWAYS a series of tiny choices and steps involved that lead to infidelity…and weak boundaries with friends of the opposite sex (that usually lead to EA’s) are one of those choices… And this time with Bob, your W has chosen AGAIN to have weak boundaries with a person of the opposite sex. It seems she have weak boundaries with the opposite sex overall and in general (similar “jokes” with an ex co-worker). I get the impression that you W hasn’t learned anything from her previous EA.

I hope she can also see that her behavior was not just inappropriate and offensive towards you but also towards another man’s wife. And that Bob’s behavior is equally inappropriate and offensive towards you and his own W. I think your W must not just “tone down” with this type of behavior but switch it off completely. I’m afraid if she’s not going to stop this sexual jokes TOTALLY and develop very strong and appropriate boundaries with the opposite sex, then another A is waiting to "happen".

A fellow named Heinlein used to write about how easy it was to lie by telling the truth. Your wife is telling you the truth. So you validate her. Which changes nothing. Heinlein says;

1. I do know that the slickest way to lie is to tell the right amount of truth - then to shut up.

2. To tell the truth so unconvincingly that everyone thinks you are lying. Which doesn't necessarily apply here.

3. To tell a person what they want to hear and let them lie to themselves to define what they think think of as the truth.

There are others. You either have boundaries in your relationship with your wife or you don't You are either willing to enforce those boundaries or you are not. You have either explained your boundaries or left them up to her imagination. In no way am I suggesting that you attempt to control your wife, only yourself.

Women and cats do as they please, men and dogs have to put up with it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Heinlein said that one too.

Your wife is doing what pleases her for her own reasons and that makes you uncomfortable, as it should. She attempts to persuade you that her intentions are benign and mean nothing. If what she does means nothing, why does she do it?

Larry

Wow...another Heinlein fan on MB...who'd a thunk?

He was great until he had a stroke, then he got off on polyamory and other dead ends. Which has nothing to do with his basic observation of humanity and the wisdom of those observations.

For example and as a one off so this doesn't become a thread jack:

“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and -- thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.”

end of threadjack.

Larry

cannot-

Growing up as John's twin sister, in a neighborhood full of boys and with 6 boys cousins nearby-I also was "one of the guys" and have the scars and skills to prove it (I can belch with the best of them and taught my boys how to do armpit farts).

IMHO-the kind of things your wife has been saying/emailing etc. are over the line even for "the guys".

Please listen to what others are saying.

CGU...

All the, ahem, "stuff" that your wife fed you and you lapped up aside, when are you sending copies of those emails to Bob's wife? Because, I "GUARANTOLD" ya that she will NOT see things as you do...She will NOT appreciate her husband talking to another woman the way Bob has been talking to your wife, or the way that your wife has been talking to her husband...And you bet your sweet bippy Skippy that she has EVERY right to know...Keeping this dirty little secret is just plain CRUEL...I certainly hope you will not do that...So, CGU, when are you telling Bob's wife?

As a FWW myself, I can tell unequivocably that your wife has NOT solved what is wrong inside her that allowed her to have an affair-She continues to not protect her weaknesses and play fast and loose with your life and the lives of your children...I know that so deep within my core that I am literally SCREAMING to you from this side of the computer...I keep asking myself just what I can say to you to help you KNOW this FACT...I want so much for you to get this...I want so much for your wife to get this...Because if you don't, I can promise you that another train wreck is just around the corner and you are ALL going to suffer greatly for not addressing this...And your children will be the most tragic casualties of your choosing to bury your head in the sand...I am BEGGING you to listen to me...Will you? I've stood where your wife now stands...I GET THIS...I WOULD LOVE TO HELP YOU...But first you must agree to help yourself...

I have more to say, but before I do, I need to know if you are a willing participant...CGU, Can you hear me? Will you hear me?

Please let me know, k?

Mrs. W

CGU, there’s another saying that I rely upon from time to time in situations such as the one you present us with. It goes something like, “There is none so blind as he who will not see.”

Pardner, you’re getting advice from people who’ve already been where you don’t think you are and they’re giving you the benefit of their own life-shattering experiences. CGU, you say you believe your wife, but she’s been lying to you for at least five years. She writes explicit emails to another man, wishing she could have sex with him, and you say it’s only fantasy...and she’s sorry? She told you so, right?

Mister, it’s more likely she’s sorry she’s been found out but all is not lost. Heck, she talked her way out of it pretty well, didn’t she? You bought it hook, line, and sinker. Nothing in your post says anything about her changing her attitudes or behavior.

No sir, you cannot tell when a WS is lying. That’s what cheaters do. They lie...and they do it very, very well. Look, man, you didn’t detect her EA until it was well underway, or over, did you? That was because she was being truthful, honest, and showed she was maintaining the highest standards of personal integrity, right? Yeah! Sure she was.

How can you not see she was lying all the while it was going on? She hid things from you. She deceived you about her feelings. She took time off from the marriage to do something intensely selfish and something that excludes you totally. And you? Heck, you give her a pass. After all, marriage is about trust, you say. Yes it is...and she’s certainly shown how trustworthy she is, hasn’t she?

I’ll echo Owl’s comment. You’re going to need MB badly at some point in the future, probably sooner, rather than later. Your wife has a history of deceit and dishonesty. It is going to manifest itself a little later in your relationship too, but you won’t believe it until it explodes right in front of you. When you come back, CGU, we’ll still be here for you.

Good luck.

Thread jack


Add me to the list...and I even know from which of Mr. Heinlein's books Larry is quoting. I thought the comment about the city fathers of Carthage was especially revealing in that continuing “discussion” in that book, as was the reference to potatoes, if you recall that. Actually…I endorse the voting requirements expressed in that novel too. Uh oh! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

End thread jack

You are married. It is not OK for your wife to be "one of the boys". There is absolutely no room for flirting or sexually explicit dialogue. It doesn't matter if it is "just in fun". It is not OK for a married person to have a "friend" of the opposite sex. Study WH basic concepts and open your eyes.

Okay, Cannot, let's say your wife is telling the truth. It is of course much easier for you and her if she is.

You need to tell your wife that what she is doing is over the line, looking for trouble, and innapropriate within a marriage. Tell her that is she would not share it with you and Bob's wife, it isn't appropriate. Next, tell her that you no longer feel comfortable with her having any interaction with Bob. Saying that she is thinking of him before she goes to sleep is not cool with you. Finally, tell her since she has broken trust, she needs to work on repairing the trust (again) by giving you the password to her email and that she needs to keep copies of all her email.

I also like Heinlin, although I have to admit it was because of Stranger in a Strange Land (his polyamory story).

Some fantasies are best left as, er, fantasies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I did enjoy the book though but not because of polyamory.

Lordy, Lordy, if two person relationships are THAT complex, just imagine (outside the sex) just how complex a three or four way deal would be. Most of the polyamory sites I have seen on the web have an undercurrent of tension and aftermaths that are not attractive to guys like me who like to keep it as simple as possible so I can understand the dynamics.

Larry