I had posted this on a Newbie thread, but thought starting a new thread may be more helpful. So here it goes:

I'm not even sure where to begin with my problem, as I find myself facing several.

FWH had A a couple of years ago while I was pg with DD#2. Ended without much fuss, no contact was ever made again as far as I know (no real emotional connection, more of a fling). We've since been in "recovery" however, getting through the A was the least of our problems. There has been significant verbal and emotional abuse for years that I have dealt with to keep our family together (at all costs, right?). We are currently separated, with the advice of both of our therapists, we were just destroying each other being under the same roof.

In addition to being a BS, I guess, technically I've also been the WW and OW. The OM is someone I work with, and had been mostly an EA, almost since I returned from maternity leave after having DD#2. During this time (past 1.5 years) the OM got married, and separarted from W within just a few months of marriage. When the PA started we were both separated. There was really no sort of revelation to be made as both of our families knew, work knew, (and the BS's knew). So I guess it was an A, however we weren't hiding it, everyone knew we were in a relationship together, and both separated from our spouses.

A little over a month ago we both decided to give our marriages another try, and both agreed NC (although we haven't stuck to it very well, but are trying). I have much more at stake here with 8 years of marriage and 2 DDs (where he has no kids and a couple months of marriage).

My problem is the withdrawl and the fog. I'm having a hard time being accepting of DHs changes (which there have been a few) when I feel like my heart is somewhere else. Like so much damage has been done, even without the OM I'm not going to be able to let DH truely back in to my heart (the abuse took an unbelievable emotional toll). So now I just spend my days barely functioning, missing OM, wondering what he's doing, but sticking to my NC.

Ugh, how on earth did I end up in this mess?? I don't even know WHAT I want at this point, some times I just want to pull the covers over my head never to be seen again (except my girls needs me, so I'm staying strong). DH and I see our counselor again on Wednesday, I think she will agree that we aren't ready to live together again yet, he still has some major anger and abuse issues to overcome, and I'm still afraid to let him in.

Well, if you're still reading, thanks, it feels good to get it all out.

Dazed-

I just posted in your other thread. If you can, try to stick to one ongoing thread so everyone can follow your story by referring to the information in one spot. Otherwise we (ok...I) just get confused.

Owl....good idea. I'm moving your post here so I can delete the other thread I started for Dazed yesterday.

Ace

***

Owl, Member, Reged: Jan 20 2005
Posts: 2563
Re: Thread for Newbie DAZED4NOW (from Success Story Thread) [Re: dazed4now]
#3306582 - Tue Sep 18 2007 07:56 AM


Dazed-

You realize that if the two of you are seeing each other even 'just in a work capacity'...you'll never get over it, right?

If you are REALLY going to work on your marriage, you're going to HAVE TO find another job to ensure that NC does stick. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.

Take it from a BH...over time, with work, your feelings for your H can and will return. They did in my wife's case, and we've seen it in countless other poster's situations here as well.

--------------------
"...perhaps many will fully respect your opinions if you give it AND resist insulting them at the same time. -Mr Dubya"

"All carrot and no stick makes Jane a "girls gone wild" kind of gal." -Plank

Wife had an online EA of about 3 months
D-day 05/11/04
Status- Recovery

That would be good, I think I'm even confusing myself at this point...LOL

Hang in there, Dazed. Take a deep breath.....you can do this.

I'm certain others will be by soon.

Ace

And in answer to OWL's response, yes, I realize one of us needs to find a new job. Luckily we work in different buildings and can go a very long time without ever running in to each other. I have started looking for something new, but can't leave my current job with the precarious state my M is in, and if I may be single soon.

Again, blech...I'm just so miserable

If doing the right thing were easy, nobody would get divorced and/or have an affair. And please, for the sake of all those BSs here, just admit you had and affair and it was wrong. Don't qualify your affair by saying, "Well, we were both separated, and everyone knew about it, so blah, blah, blah..." It was wrong, you shouldn't have done it, and while I understand that there were circumstances in your situation that made the affair possible, there are no excuses for it. Us BSs have heard plenty of the same justifications from our own wives, so we are sick of hearing it. There is NEVER an excuse to have an emotional and/or physical connection to ANYONE other than your spouse as long as you are still married, especially if the OP is married as well. Let me tell you, your relationship with the OM would have never worked out, so don't dwell on it anymore. It is just a waste of energy.

You're right, I do sound like I'm justifying it, and maybe I still am, hence the reason it's harder to get over. I am admitting it's wrong and committing to doing the right thing. A good dose of reality (like Jim's post) are very helpful.

Hi Dazed-

I'm a FWW. I believe that you do firmly want to do the right thing- that's why you're here.

Withdrawal is hard, but there are things that can help. What's the most difficult aspect for you? We'll brainstorm some solutions.

Oh... and welcome to MB <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~Saturn

dazed,

FIRST thing that I would do is make a solid decision to save my M. A plan will fall into place once you make this decision. This has to be a decision you make FOR you, not for your H. If YOU don't choose it, it won't happen. I think of it in terms of stopping some poor behavior because someone else wants you to, like drinking or smoking or drugs. It will not STICK unless it's your decision to change YOUR behavior, separate from your marriage.

Second, find another job. Don't even think "I realize one of us needs to find a new job". Think "I need to find a new job". There is no US. There is only you. You can find another job that pays close to or above what you earn, and you will be in the SAME boat IF you guys divorce, so don't make excuses for yourself.

Yes, the withdrawl is the hardest part, I'm numb to everything else right now, so someone could come up to me and scream in my ear what an idiot I am, and I don't know how much of a difference it would make. I WANT to get through this. As far as my M, that's a hard one, up until this point I've stuck it out for my "family" and not for my DH. We're working in counseling to even figure out if it can be saved (the depths we sunk even before my A were pretty dark). In my mind they feel like 2 separate issues (but maybe they aren't), getting through this fog, and deciding if my marriage is repairable.

As far as the hardest part, I miss OM like crazy, every single second of the day. I'm thinking shock therapy might be a good way to go (j/k). I stare at the phone, and know I can't pick it up. I could walk next door and knock on his door, but I don't, I just want a time machine to help me get through this part.

Been there, Dazed. Like you, my marriage kinda sucked so it was hard for me to focus on that instead of OM. I made it a personal goal of recovery, not a marriage goal. I was tired of hating myself and desperately wanted my integrity back.

So... here is some reading material:
Guide for wayward wives

When thoughts of OM would pop into my mind, I played a distraction trick that I think was posted by MEDC here. I would consciously name everything in my field of vision: computer screen, mouse, file folder, coffee cup, printer, etc. Keep that up for at least a minute and it will help you turn your mind to something else. The trick is to change your focus before the feelings sink in (there is about a 10-second delay between thinking of OM and missing him... distract yourself before that 10 seconds is over).

Hope this helps get you through the first stage. It will get easier each day.

Keep posting and don't give up-
~Saturn

Thanks Saturn - I read the link, very helpful

Since DH isn't really around to lean on I'm relying a lot on the support of friends and family. They know what I'm going through, so when I get the urge to contact OM, I contact them instead.

Home at night alone once the kids go to bed is the hardest, I feel like I'm going insane. I also know if I pick up that phone I have to start ALL over again from square one, and I don't think my sanity could handle it.

Yes, it's a lot like trying to quit smoking or drinking. Keeping a tally of your NC days is helpful- once you're up to 10, or 25, or 100, you really don't want to go back to zero right?

Start right now and make a list of stuff to do tonight to keep you away from the phone. Unplug it/turn it off and move to a different place in your house. Do you have closets to clean out? Photos of the baby to put in the scrapbook? Scrub the shower grout with a toothpick?Unfinished projects that will keep your hands busy and distract your mind?

Also, put a plan in place in case OM contacts you. Can you block his phone number/email address?

It's great that your friends are helping. You'll make it.

Keep strong-
~Saturn

I haven't even thought about what I'd do if OM contacted me, it just never occured to me that he would. We both agreed we just wouldn't.

My 5 year old keeps me busy a good portion of the night, then after that I need to find something to do. I would usually run on the treadmill, but a recent broken foot has stalled most physical efforts.

I also made a choice not to drink any alcohol. It's never been an issue, as I'm a "glass of wine once in a while" type, but I KNOW having a drink will make it 10 times harder.

It didn't seem like DH had ANY withdrawls from his A, is this more of a WW thing?

dazed,

Saturn is really giving you some great advice.

When my WH left, and I went to plan B, I too had to do all that I could to avoid calling him, emailing him, thinking of him. I started working on my house. I started thinking about colors and subtle changes, like moving the furniture around. I also cleaned things, the fridge, under my bed, the walls, mirrors, whatever, all while listening to happy music.

It sounds like withdrawal from OP IS like withdrawal from smoking. When I felt the urge to light up, I would get up and move around, or recite some silly poem or limerick, or sing a silly song. I felt like I had ants in me pants for about a month, then things were pretty smooth sailing.

Even us BS's have to go thru withdrawal from our spouses, so I understand.

I think personal recovery is a very good goal. It's my main focus right now.

I'm only on day 5 officially, I think, so I'll start my tally. Thanks for all the advice, now I just need to wait for it to all sink it...(I forgot a phone call there in my sig, I should change it)

Dazed,

Hope this gets you started. Take things in a little at a time. You've been given alot to think about.....and I'm sure you'll have more questions.

Glad you decided to post, ....and it's really good that you have your own thread now.

The only bad question is the one you are too fearful to ask. Sooooo...ask away...and be patient...AND like Owl said, keep everything on one thread for now.

Ace

So dazed... didja make it? Can we say today is Day #6?

Yep, today is day #6 ;-)

How about you Saturn, how are you holding up?

BTW, I showed DH this site last night, and well, he sorta freaked out. I guess he said it went against just about everything he's been learning in his anger maangement course (something about paranoid anger). I guess even as a BS (this time), it just wasn't his thing. I told him I was just visiting to get ideas, pointers, vent...that kind of stuff.

We have counseling at 10:00am, I think it should go pretty well (fingers crossed)

Woo-Hoo!!!

<generous applause>

After tomorrow, treat yourself for making it a week. Do something nice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



I quit counting when I reached a year of NC. It's been about 15 months for me.

Last October OM emailed me, but I don't count that one against myself. Like I suggested to you yesterday: you need a plan just in case HE contacts YOU. I had a plan, and it went well: I did not open the email, and instead asked my husband to read it first. He and I then decided together how to handle it.



This is interesting- what part freaked him out?

Good luck with the counseling today!

~Saturn

I think the part about the GPS tracking and spying, he thought is sounded a bit nutty.

Anyhoo...how close (distance wise) was your OM? Mine happens to be one building over, and it is weighing on me. I keep thinking, if we've both agreed to NC, then what's the problem? Right? Am i being unrealistic here?

My OM (ex-boyfriend from high school) lives 750 miles away. Thank God.

Yes, I believe you need to change jobs. As Dr. Harley says- you need "extraordinary precautions" in place to prevent even accidental contact.

Contact even counts if you hear about OM though co-workers, or if his name is on a memo that you read, or if he checks out a book in the company library before you... you get the idea. The whole point is to eliminate reminders of him so you can move on. That would be really hard with him right next door.

Dazed-

I forgot to ask...does your H know about your affair with OM? Does OMW know about his with you?

Never mind accidently bumping him to him, I have 3 meetings with him over the next 2 weeks (one of them being a full day...blech)

Yes, DH has even spoken to him (DH was over one evening when OM called the house), and yes, I've even spoken to OMs wife (they no longer live together, I was helping him move in to his new place). Like I mentioned before both my family and his know about our relationship, as well as work...so no big revelations to be had on that front.

Wasn't so much worried about "revelations"...but since your H does know, you should be working WITH him to help yourself out of this situation.

Have you considered marriage counseling? What actual steps are you and your H doing to rebuild your marriage at this point?

How about getting an "accountability partner" at work, who can help "check up on you" to keep you from caving in while you're in withdrawl?

How about exposing the affair to your boss, admit to what's gone on, let them know that you're now trying to do the right thing, and see if there's anything that they can do to help you relocate...and avoid OM in the interim?

Have you started to ACTIVELY search for a new job? Have you and your H discussed to determine if your family can do without your income for a short time so that you can leave this job even before you find a new one?

This isn't the time to sit down and wait for the feelings to go away. This is the time to ACT on the hurt that you're feeling and use it to move yourself and your marriage in the right direction. Make sense?

DH and I are in individual counseling as well as couples counseling. We are still on the fence about whether the M can even be saved (above and beyond the A), but we're leaving no stone unturned for the sake of our family.

My boss knows, she also knows I've thought about looking for something new, but not actively. I'm still in "confused and numb" mode. DH and I are separated, me not working is not an option right now.

I guess for right now I have to take it day by day, and know that contact with OM will do neither of us any good (even for our own sanity and piece of mind. I'm not even sure what the status of his M is, as they are also separated).

Back to day #1 of NC <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What happened? Specifically. What was the event that caused you to think about him, then what happened in your head that allowed you to make the choice to contact him?

If you know your weak points, you can set up actions to protect them.

The easier it is to do, the harder it is to change. So make it HARD to contact him.

Please get back on the wagon and keep trying.
~Saturn

I thought for sure he was covering in the ICU all day, so I didn't worry about running in to him. I was in Radiology (which he would rarely be in) and just happened to need to drop something off, and saw me.

He called about an hour later to say it was good to see me, missed me, yadda yadda.

That's it, back on the wagon today...

He called about an hour later to say it was good to see me, missed me, yadda yadda.

I hope you told him clearly

without any comment to what he said..

I don't want you to call me again ever
I don't want to talk to you ever except if forced to about work.

ARk

I see- you work in a hospital. So do I. It's hard to avoid people in that environment because it's so busy and people don't stay in one place (like a business setting with offices and cubicles).

First: start today to search for a new job. There are LOTS of health care jobs; you are very lucky to be in a career that makes it easy to change locations.

Second: your key mistake was in answering your phone. As I suggested earlier, block his number(s) and also get caller ID if you don't already have it. When he calls you, don't answer. Then send him a NEW NO-CONTACT LETTER. My OM required four NC letters before he stopped.

How did counseling go yesterday?

I'm very new to this, no, that wasn't my response at all:(

We both agreed we felt better/more honest with ourselves when we aren't talking, so at least we agreed on that point.

And yes, I told H we spoke.

Counseling went fine.

The funny thing is, H doesn't really even care if I still talk to OM, and doesn't think I should get a new job.

It's all really strange.

I told H about this board again, he said to stay off it, it sounded horrific (and my counselor agreed), I guess they aren't big MB fans??

That's interesting, and adds an unusual twist to the MB principles.

The policy of joint agreement states that a person should never do something without enthusiastic agreement of their spouse. So, that would mean stay away from MB if your husband doesn't like it!

Usually it's the wayward spouse that hates MB, but in your case it's the reverse.

I guess it's up to you. What do you think?

I think I want to go back to bed...LOL

Honestly, I'm liking the alone thing right now. Hanging out with my DDs, watching Dr 90210, no arguing with anyone. I'm letting it ride for now.

I realize I'm not going about this the MB way, it's just that since I don't know what I want, and either does H, it's easier for now to do nothing I guess.

Fair enough.

Blessings and Peace to you and your daughters-
~Saturn

I'm with Ark, let this guy know not to contact you with a NC letter, block his email right now, delete his number in your cell, block it, don't answer when he's on caller ID. If you do answer, restate the NC and hang up. I know how hard it must be to resist, but it is what's best for you, first and foremost.

Not knowing what you want is still no excuse to continue contact, as it is still an affair at that point.

Enjoy your girls, enjoy your life, work on YOU, rebuild YOU. Make your life good so that another person coming into it just enhances it, instead of NEEDING that OP, you WANT that OP.

If you get sessions with your MC alone, maybe a discussion about his view on MB is in order, asking what specifically he is against in the principles. A BLANKET NO just doesn't seem right to me, but that's me. Do you like your MC, feel comfortable, etc?

Anyway, hope you can stick around. This place has helped me in personal recovery quite a bit. It would be a shame to miss out on that aspect...

dazed4

Am I the only one who finds that post 24 hours of contact containing ...I miss you...blah blah blah...

here you are back on the fence about working on your marriage....

you have tw daughters who are at great risk to have their parents floating strangers in and out of their life...

creating environments in which children's stability have no value...
and if the future holds being strangers in their parents home...oh well

feeling replaced by their parents boyfriends/girlfriends splitting holidays and having no examples of committment and marriage to model after...

what's gonna happen when you or hubby get remarried and your children are at the mercy of 'new step-mommy'

who wants to have her own children with their father...
so that when they go there...they see a daddy spending all his time with them...and limited time with his first children...

you got two daughters...
who in my opinion deserve people making a real honest effort before giving in and up....

that's not to say that ALLLL marriages should be saved
that's not to say that there are any garuntees..

but there sure are ways that apply the best effort....

it' psychological babble.....work on oneself...
be the best you can be for YOU....

bleechhh....

silentlucidity...with all due respect..I find the advice to work on oneself to make way for new men to come in to the life of growing daughters...feel good pop-pyche stuff...meant to never ever offend and whatever feels good....
is best.....

very very bad advice...
especially to someone on the fence

you should be spending FAMILY time with your husband...
working on building trust and love units...
and building an environment in which it is safe to deal with root core issues....

do you not find it ironic dazed4...that the OM you choose...couldn't even hold his marriage together longer than what a year give or take...

sheesh....

another prime example of someone who has NO idea about committment, vows etc....

he's like your husband in that respect....

I don't mean to sound harsh

this where the bull stops as far as I am concerned...the serious get serious...

life is SHORT fleeting and gone in an instant....

we can self analyze ourselves in to the grave...and in the end ...for what purpose....

ARK^^

Oh, Ark, I hear you. I didn't mean to imply that she shouldn't try to save her marriage. I certainly believe that her children deserve an intact, loving family.

I was talking about her saying that there is abuse in her relationship with her husband, and that may be stopping her. She does need to figure out what is going on with her, beyond this OM, but not in a way that forsakes her vows. IMO, she needs to respect her H and drop OM like a hot cake. I don't care what her H HAS done to her, or what affairs he has had (apparently something going on there), I'm talking to her, not her H.

I do believe in working on yourself, to fix what is wrong with you, that would lead you believe that your happiness is more important than the sum of things. Yes, you want to strive to be happy, but not while you scorch the earth that your children live upon.

I am not telling her to make way for any new men. No way, no how. I'm simply stating that something is adrift IN HER, and to look within and be honest with herself. If she doesn't, no matter what we say, she will make excuses to pick up that phone and talk to other man, because she is "Oh, whoa is me-ing" about how unhappy her M is, blaming someone else for her missteps.

IMO, she is her worst enemy.

thanks, Ark, sometimes I am not real clear about what I mean. I want dazed to take a hard look at herself and come clean. I agree that divorce is going to mean the end of a stable life for her kids, and that they deserve more than what she is giving them. I never had that, so I am a big advocate of doing all that you can to save your M, hence ME following MB plans.

I do raise an eyebrow to a counselor who doesn't agree with COMPLETE openness and honesty in a marriage, and that is why I suggested she speak with him/her about it. Her husband has a wayward mentality, too, IMO, and it will not serve them well to be with a counselor that is not PRO marriage. (this coming from someone who can't get her FWH to step foot in a counselor's office <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)

I see where you got the impression that I was saying it was okay to be with OP. I worded it incorrectly. I meant any person, friends, whatever, not just a MAN. Not looking outside herself for someone else to MAKE her happy.

I think it was the Spying 101 thread that did him in, seemed a bit over the top. Actually, the more I read the more freaked out I get by some of these posts...perhaps this isn't the place for me.

Best of luck to you all.