I'm reposting form diffrent forum...

My wife has been in her phisical affair for at least 2 months. But she has been having an emotional affair for some time now. She claims that she could not talk to me so he turned to her friend "N". She claims that she never wanted for something to flurish but resent events have changed that.

About 3 months ago I discoverd that she has been unhappy for some time. She said that I don't meet her emotional needs. That we are to diffrent. That we grew appart. I agree that some of these things have happen. I want to work on it but she claims that she is too emotionaly drained. She has not filed for divorce yet. But she did start this affair with her friend of 10 yrs. For 10 yrs "N" claimed to be her friend. They work together. And When things start getting bad with me and her, he moves in and said all the right things, show he cares, and he had the inside info to act on her emotions. I feel so bad that my wife can't see how he is taking advantage of the situation. He so manipulative, he even created a "script" for them to come out at work with their affair. He makes it seem like they are just starting to date each other and that they don't know where things are going to lead from there. The reality is that they both just want to feel comfortable with their relationship. I know that my wife feels some shame. She told me that she feels "dirty" for wanting to be with him.

We have been marrired for 10yrs and have to beautiful girls. 7 & 2 yrs. Knowing that she stopped loving me crushed me, knowing that she is having an affair has devatated me. I love her very much and don't want to give up on our family. I know that she is living in a fantacy right now. I want to do something if I can to stop this affair.

I have two battels going on. One- She needs to stop the affair. Two- I need to make her fall back in love with me. I need her to give a chance to prove to her that I can meet her emotional needs.

Help!!! anyone

let me start by saying that i know what you are going through. You truly have a rough road ahead and it probably won't get easier any time soon. the only advice that i can give is that you first have to take responsibility for the role that you played in all of this. do that and let her know that you've done that. explain to her how things can be different and that they will be different. show her that you can weather the storm and that you are there for her and REALLY be there. exhaust that until you are sure that you've done all that you can. when you're sure that you've done all that you can or you really start to lose yourself in all of then you step away. let her know that you are stepping back and do it. if she loves you she will follow. and if she doesn't.... well i think you know. but at least you know that you gave it everything.

Hi Sonny,

Welcome to MB.

First thing, YOU are NOT responsible for your W having an A. She is 100% responsible for deciding to have the A. You are responsible for the conditoin of the M prior to the A, but the A was her decision.

Read all of the articles here on the website... especially the ones about exposure and Plan-A.

Your first task is to expose the A. As long as your W and this OM are in contact, the A will continue. Don't believe anything that your W says about it being "over" if you haven't exposed... if she say's it's over so you don't need to expose, all that will mean is that they're just being more careful.

Once you've exposed the A, and NO CONTACT (NC) is in place, you can start your Plan-A... Plan-A is where you learn how to meet your W's most important ENs and better yourself as a H... this will make you more attractive to your W.

It all starts with ending the A, so give us a shout if you have any questions about how to expose...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Sonny, you are getting GREAT advice on this forum and also on your original post. READ everything you can here. Try NOT to react to her "fog". Try as hard as you can to think logically and apply the MB principals.

Is your wife still in the house?

To repeat what RIF said....give a shout out with any questions or concerns.

P.S. You NEED to EXPOSE the A at their work.

Thanks rif.--

I have a question. How can I establish a NC when she is not willing to give up the A. She is still hinding around but its not a secret anymore in hour house.

She told me "I want to be with him. I want to see if he is just like you. I want to do what ever I want to do. No one is going to tell me what to do anymore, I am no longer under your domain." "I don't want to be with you"

I have a feeling she will not come back. She is being selfish, she is not thinking of our girls, her family, the OM's family (W), and I think she does not care about what I feel. Is there any hope. Can Plan A realy work... She is not willing to give a NC. I don't know how to negotiate this. She claims that our marriage is breaking up because of all the damage done through out the years. The A has nothing to do with it. She said that the OM came as a surprise to her. She "fell in love" but did not want to. She told me whether she was with OM or alone, she is done. I don't know if that is true. I have a strong feeling that OM had a lot to do with her current state of mind. Why did it take so long for her to come to her current mindset. They are both feeding each other's disorder. And that makes them feel good.

We are currently separated. We are selling the house I feel that as soon as the house sells if it ever does she will file for divorce.

I know, sometimes it's hard to hear when we are really sad and devastated as you are. But YES, plan A can REALLY work. Exposure will do A LOT to help break up the affair.

Read the articles on the site, the basic concepts, the articles, the forum. Educate yourself and listen to the advice that you get here. There are some extremely supportive people here, many have gone through the same despair you are feeling now. They can help.

My spouse left me a couple of weeks ago... he was not having an affair, but he was looking at online dating sites. He said he was through also. He gave me the same speech your wife did. We are separated.

I've been working plan A HARD. Really HARD. But, spouse is manifesting now that "whatever you've been doing it's working".

Don't despair, there is ALWAYS hope. And it's never too late.

Hey Sonny,



That's why you MUST expose the A. Exposure isn't done to 'punish' the WS... it isn't done to 'get back' at the OM... the sole reason for Exposure is to END the A.

Your W is following the WS script to the letter... her comments may seem 'original', but trust me, every BS here has heard the same words... Your W is in deep TAKER mode... all she cares about is her and the feelings that this OM give her. These feelings are NOT real and it will take Exposure to end the A.



Do YOU want to separate and then divorce??? If not, then you must end the A. If they work together, then I'd definitely expose the A at her work...

Semper Fi,

RIF

This is Fog Talk(tm). I know it's hard, but you have to ignore it. Don't spend a lot of time analyzing what she says and trying to figure out what's going on in her head. Nothing is going on in her head, besides a chemical rush that's indistinguishable from drug use.

Everything she is saying to you is identical to what every other wayward spouse says. Just know that she is reading from the wayward script -- a script that never changes. None of what she says will make any sense, and she'll constantly contradict herself, sometimes in the same sentence.

You can't reason with her. You can't appeal to logic. You can't force her. You can't beg her. What's worse, when you try to do any of those things you push her farther away.

You can't force her or use reason to get her to agree to NC. She has to decide.

Keep reading the site. You'll see that Plan A is the only real chance you have. It's nowhere near 100% effective, but it's better than pleading, threatening, and arguing, which NEVER works.

Also, remember Plan A is a carrot AND a stick. For the carrot you show her you are changing the things about you that hurt your marriage. You don't TELL her you're changing. You show her. For the stick you expose, expose, expose. Affairs often wither when exposed to sunlight.

Have you exposed their affair at work yet? I know you are reluctant to do this because you're afraid of the backlash from your WW, but think about it this way: You are going to lose her and see your family broken up if the affair continues. And the affair WILL continue if they are allowed to legitimize it with their co-workers.

My situation and yours are very, very similar. My WW started an affair with a guy she worked with. I heard the exact same fog talk. I was in contact with the OM's wife. OM's wife was opposed to exposing them at work, but I found a way to do it anonymously. OM was fired on the spot, and suddenly the bright, happy future the two of them envisioned began disintegrating.

If you're interested in knowing how I managed to expose them anonymously let me know.

Hang in there. What you are going through right now is certainly the worst thing that's ever happened to you. For me it was far worse than the deaths of my parents and every career setback I ever suffered COMBINED. Make sure you're taking care of yourself the best you can. Your daughters need you.

The house won't sell unless you agree to sell it. If you get an offer that's below the asking price, reject it. When the listing agreement expires don't renew it.

My WW expected to immediately sell the house and leave me scrambling for a place to live while she took her share of the equity and started her new life with OM. I said no.

Stay in the house. It's your kids' house too. Just because WW wants to take off doesn't mean you and your kids have to lose your house.

If your situation goes all the way to divorce are you planning to ask for custody of the kids? If so you need to stay in the family home. She can leave if she wants, but you're staying.

Have you seen a lawyer? If not you should. You need to protect whatever assets you have. Waywards have been known to drain accounts, run up debt, and sell off assets while the BS sits wringing their hands. Protect yourself and your children.

sonny, the others are giving you great advice. Your most potent weapon is exposure. Exposure ruins affairs. Affairs thrive on secrecy and once you bring it out into the open it will start dying off.

Exposure is best done all at once to achieve the maximum effect and to prevent them from pre-empting you and spinning the story.

Exposure targets should be:

Human Resources
the OM's wife
her parents
your parents
the OM's parents
close siblings and friends

Before all that, the kids should be informed of the truth so that your WS does not lie to them and spin the story. Kids can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies.

I would suggest sending a registered letter to Human Resources with cc's to the company VP, and both their bosses telling them about the affair. Ask them what they intend on doing about it. There is a template floating around here somewhere written by BritsBrat, when i get on my laptop i will link it.

Time your exposures to land on the same day the letter is received at her company so it all comes crashing down at the same time.

When you call your family members, ask for their HELP. Tell them about the affair and ask for their advice in ending it. People are much more willing to help if you ask and will often offer to speak to the WS.

And please listen to Jethro, he knows what he is talking about. You absolutely should not COOPERATE in the sale of your house! Good grief, if you cooperate with someone whose goal is to destroy your marriage and your family, you will end up with a ........................destroyed marriage and family!! Don't cooperate with anything!

you should be in Plan A:


The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

ok, sonny, I see from reading your other thread that others have already told you to expose and you have not listened to them. We cannot help you save your marriage if you won't ACT on our suggestions. Right now the biggest problem here IS YOU becuase you won't ACT.

The goal here is to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE and you believe it is to avoid making your wife mad. If you don't make your wife mad while she is destroying your marriage and your children's family then YOU ARE NOT DOING YOUR JOB. Your marriage can survive her temporary anger at your interference but it CANNOT SURVIVE this affair.

Let me ask you this, if she were a crack addict, would you avoid taking her crack because it might make her mad? Or would you take her crack, and endure her anger, knowing that she would sober up once the crack was gone? Would you sit there and watch her self destruct with CRACK simply to avoid making her mad? That is what you are doing, sonny.

Your marriage and your family is under ASSAULT and unless you MAN UP here and take some action, you are going to get killed on the field of battle. You have a POWERFUL WEAPON in your hand that you are not using.


If the Titanic is going down would you discuss the peeling paint in the girls bathroom? Or would you put on your thinking cap and deduce that perhaps the ship needed to be saved FIRST? Wouldn't that be the clever thing to do? You and I both know that the affair is the MAIN PROBLEM and this ship is going down until that situation is corrected.

Your "therapist" is a moron who understands NOTHING about adultery. First off, therapy is USELESS while there is an ongoing affair because the goal of therapy is RECOVERY, an impossible goal with an active affair.

And secondly, most marriage counselors are NOT PRO-MARRIAGE but simply faciliatate AMICABLE DIVORCES. This is why the rate of success amongst MC's is about 16%. They have a HIGHER divorce rate than the average population!

So, dump this loser and save your hard earned money before you end up divorced.

Don't move out
Don't sell the house
Expose


Your young ones need you to fight for them. Your wife, though seemingly resolute, is acting no different than my now FWW did 2.5 years.

Don't just put your toe in the exposure waters to test the temperature. Your wife's has a multiple year relationship with this guy and trying to act openly like the affair is OK thus I emphasize to you that I think you need more or less a tsunami of truth/exposure. Take a few days to Plan it for say Monday. Research and acquire all contact information and let her rip.

OM's mom and dad
OM's kids, 1st wife, grandparents
WW's parents and siblings
WW's grandparents
WW and OM's bosses and coworkers
any relevant Church leaders (some churches even have church discipline)

Expose in the MB manner.

After you expose...carry with yourself a voice activated digital recorder (which you should already have and been using to build your divorce and custody case) to protect yourself from false restraining order or domestic violence claims wife may try to use to gain the upper hand. If she files a false claim and you can prove it....YOU WIN.

Good luck,

YOU WILL MAKE IT.

Mr. Wondering

On second thought,

Monday may be a bit too long to wait.

Get the recorder and do it tomorrow evening to all the friends, family and church people followed by Monday to the work.

Plan it here. There are plenty of examples of what to say and how to say it elsewhere herein.

I KNOW this is hard but the courage and strength come from actually taking the action. You will feel much better having taken control of your life. You may even regret it for a day or two...but in the long run you will see it HAD to be done.

Please...don't ignore this advice. It's your best hope.

Mr. Wondering

Jethro -

My situation is very similar to Sonny's. I need some information on exposing to a few people anonomously and could really use your insight.

If this is your wife, then you should NOT make an anonymous exposure, because no one takes them seriously. They are dismissed as gossip, as they should be. If it isn't serious enough for you to put your name on it, then it isn't serious enough to be credible.

Besides, if you do it anonymously, how will you take your DUE credit for it?

I thank you all for the good advice. I will expose them at work. I will also talk to OM Fam. I know it will be ******. But I'm in ****** already, this way I feel like I am doing something.

Jedthro--- What is the best way to expose them anonimously? I have a cousin an aquantance that work with her. What is the best way of using them. Should I get the othr BS involed? I talk to her from time to time. Maybe if we do it together poeple will take it serious.

I will call her up to see if she is willing to help me contact the OM fam. and to help me to expose them at work. How long is will my WW be over the anger of me exposing her, so that she can see plan A in action. I have changed the last couple of months but so far she does not seem impressed.

I don't have acceses to a computer all the time, so I apologize if my resposes are a little late or take a long time.

once again I TRUELY APPRICIATE all the help and well wishes
thank you all.

sonny, I would never recommend an anonymous exposure. It is not likely to be taken seriously, nor can you take full credit for your handiwork. If it is not serious enough to sign your name, then it is not credible enough to take seriously. You will want to MAKE CERTAIN that your WW and the exposure target know it came from you so you can TAKE CREDIT for your good deed.

Post deleted by NearingTheEnd

nearingtheend, would you mind taking this post and starting a new thread so you aren't buried down at the bottom of someone elses thread? That way we don't disrupt sonny's thread and others can see and respond to yours. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Just hit the "post" button and a new thread will pop up.

One thing I may not have mention is that I made the mistake of moving out when she ask for a separation. I have been out of the house for 1.5 months now. I has been hard on me. I don't see my kids as I was use to and that hurt me all the time.

Can Plan A still work if I am not in the house. I know it will be harder. But can it work. I don't know how can I show her that "I am making our home a warm and invinting place for us"

I have a feeling that after I expose her she will not take me back in the house. What do think. She has already told me that she does not want to be with me any more.(it hurts me so much when she talks to me like this)

I was wondering if I should confront the OM.

This is your house, there is absolutely no reason you should not live there. I would first move home. Why did you move out?

And yes, you should confront the OM at some point.

sonny, moving out is a huge strategic mistake that only helps the affair, but it is usually fairly easily rectified by moving back home. Here is a thread about that issue: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...p;vc=1&nt=3

We are selling the house. And she is already looking for a place to stay. How does this change things? I am thinking of not going along with selling the house. That way she cant afford to move out. Tell me what you think. Shel will claim that I am trying to control her.

Do you have a contract on the house?

Move back home first

Expose shortly thereafter

Don't cooperate in the sale...find a way to stay and she'll leave the family home. Then you'll have the upper hand in any ensuing custody battle as the "best interests" of the kids will be served by allowing them to maintain a consistent home.

I suspect very shortly after moving home your WW will either;

1. Have you removed by restraining order or domestic violence order (protect yourself beforehand with recording device and don't fight with her)

2. Move out herself.(don't let her take much, don't help her and the kids stay).

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

p.s. - a Custody battle is one of the most important and effective ways to bust up an affair. More importantly...if the affair doesn't end...children need to be protected to the extent one can from the presence of evil. Affairs are sick and twisted relationships and the sickness prevails throughout their home. OM's are notorious abusers of step-DAUGHTERS in particular. You've got to start preparing to win that case TODAY. YOur daughters are counting on you. You fight this case on the backside while you continue to fight for your marriage.

1. a Criminal background check on OM
2. Survellance...are your children being exposed to him
3. start a journal strictly about the comings and goings of the children and document all relevant information concerning them without any vindictiveness or anger towards your WW therein.

Outstanding post, MrW. sonny, MrW is exactly right. You have placed yourself at a terrible disadvantage by moving out. You have faciliated the affair and the demise of your own marriage by leaving your family like this. The remedy is to move back home and not participate in the sell of your home. Don't cooperate with someone whose mission is the destruction of your marriage and family, lest you end up with a ........destroyed marriage and shattered family.

Have the two of them used any company resources to further their affair? Have they travelled together? Are they using company cell phones and computers to communicate? Are they meeting on company time?

If you aren't willing to expose them openly you can do it by anonymously calling HR. You can tell them that there is a "situation" in the workplace they need to be aware of because it's causing friction and a "hostile environment" for others.Let them know that there is an affair between two married people people going on and the gossip and suspicion is beginning to disrupt work. There is also concern that the two people having an affair are using company resources (phones, expense accounts, company time) to further their affair.

If your WW works for a large company they certainly have specific HR policies they must follow. They will have to investigate, and if they feel the affair is disrupting the workplace and creating a hostile environment they will find a reason to get rid of one or both of them. Just remember to keep what you say restricted to things that are affecting the company. The company doesn't care about the morality of the situation, they only care about how it is -- or could possibly -- affect the bottom line. That's why you talk about wasting company time and assets as well as the "hostile environment". If the company thinks it's being ripped off or that someone might sue them they will act.

When you talk to HR you don't have to tell them it's your wife. They'll wonder if you are an employee uncomfortable with the situation, the husband, or maybe a friend of the betrayed wife. They'll wonder, but it won't really matter. What will matter is that there is a situation that must be dealt with. Give them whatever detail they need but don't give away anything about yourself. Call them from a pay phone and use *67 so they don't even know what area code you're calling from.

If they ask for something in writing you can go to a FedEx/Kinkos, use one of their computers to type something up, and fax it to HR from the store. *67 works with a fax machine, too. If you do it this way HR won't know for sure who you are (and won't care, really) and there will be no proof on phone records that you ever made the call.

Good luck. When you expose them at work you will, at the very least, make things very uncomfortable for them at work. Their bosses will know what's going on, and they'll know they are being watched. It won't be any fun for them. You might also see one or both of them get fired, something that will put ENORMOUS pressure on the affair.

I have a fam member that works in HR that is going to that for me. She will appoach the CEO and advise that there might be some conflict of interest if there is an affair happening. Next she will go to the HR manager and notify them. She feels that the company might be liable for some law suit (sex harasment, uncomfortable work inviroment). I think she will do this Monday. Maybe I'll have her wait utill Tuesday. That way I'll have a chance to move back home

She plans on giving their full names, right?

sonny, can I ask WHY you want to keep your exposure anonymous? Is your plan on keeping only the workplace exposure anonymous? You surely don't plan on keeping them ALL anonymous do you?

btw...don't ask or discuss moving back home with ANYBODY.

If you give her a chance to prepare she WILL stop you.

I presume the house is in both your names, thus, you have every right to move back into YOUR HOME.

Others...Sonny is in California. Anything other Californians can add as far as moving back home, WW getting restraining order, and/or chances of men winning custody in California would be appreciated.

Mr. Wondering

Yes, both WW and OM will be named. It is so sad that it has to come to this. I know how hard my WW has worked throught out the years to get where she's at. She's had go through a lot of personal test to be in the place she is right now. I hope this will wake her up and she can still salvage some of her dignaty back.

She will have to EARN her dignity back. But why do you want to keep this anonymous? And is THIS ONE the only one you plan on keeping anonymous?

The reason I want to keep the work exposer anonymous is that. I know how hard she has worked to be in the place she is at right now. If her work was like the "Sapronos Family" my WW would be "Capo", a captain. She has work 10 years to get to this place. I would hate for her to blame me for the distruction of that.

The other exposures have not been anonymous. I told her mom everthing. I think in too much detail. The other BS exposed it to his fam. His fam seems not to put too much presure.

MrWondering--- Good question regarding Californians..

By the way its not like I am totaly out of the house. I don't Sleep there but I do spend al ot of time at the house. I still have my keys. When I take care of my girls I do it at the house. Just when WW wife comes back from "work" I leave and say by to all. (Its always sad to say bye to my kids and even her). I wonder how will she take it. What are some words I can use to soften her up so that it does not become an ugly seen, specialy infront of my kids. I want to be home but I don't want to fight constantly. We never fought before D-Day, not out loud.I want to keep it as nice of an enviroment as possible so that I can put Plan A in place.

Sonny,

If you are EVER going to recover your marriage from this affair, either she, "Capo" or not OR He will have to get another job. Consequences of adultery suck. The very last thing you should be worried about is her job.

Your wife is screwing another man and you don't want to make her mad? Can you even begin to see how screwed up that thinking is?

Man up Sonny. Move home. Get your balls from that little glass jar next to the bed and start using them. One day your wife will appreciate what you did to save your family.

MAN UP!!!!!!!!

I think that is peachy and sweet but the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid making your fogged out, destructive wife angry at all costs. It is in your childrens best interest to SAVE THE MARRIAGE, after all, not to allow her to destroy their family just so you won't make their mother mad. Please, lets be rational here.

She will be FURIOUS that you move home and interfere with her affair, so just expect that. There are no cute, soothing words you can say to change that. You cannot REASON with a fogged out addict. It would be the equivalent of taking the crack pipe away from the crack head. It would be unrealistic to expect her to give you hugs and kisses for interfering with her addiction.

Your wife will be SPITTING MAD and may even throw herself on the floor in a fit of rage. Just walk over her and go straight to your bedroom and unpack.

You cannot save your marriage and keep the peace at all costs, sonny.

You are right, She is hurting me and she does not seem to care right now. I agree she will have to get another Job.

Why shuld I care so much about her comfort. I need to see it this way..

p.s. it takes 2 people to fight, sonny. There will be no fight if you don't fight. DON'T FIGHT. Just go home and go to your room and unpack your clothes. There is absolutely no reason for you to not sleep in your own bed at night.

If anyone should move out, it should be HER since it is she who is having an affair.

Exposure is your most powerful weapon, but in order for you to wield it effectively, you need to let her know you are the one who used it.

Unappologetically.


She needs to see her H fight for her. That's what every woman wants....to be fought for.

She knows that SHE is the one who jeapordized her job when she chose to get involved w/ OM. She had to weigh the cost she was willing to pay in order to have this A. And her decision was, "So be it! I will risk EVERYTHING I have worked for to have this A."

SHE already decided it was worth it to her.

Not YOU.

SHE did.



There's no way you will be able to 'soften' her up.

Expect the worst.

Can you have a friend there w/ you when you tell her? That may help her to refrain from saying ugly things in front of the children.

Do not argue w/ her.

Simply state that you are home now. And will not be moving out again.

You can do this.

~ Marsh

We never fought. We realy don't have any practice at it. Whe she get mad she starts yelling dumb things that don't make sense. I am sometimes stuck on what to say. This is all new to us. I hate were we are at. Its very uncomfortalbe. I hope her fog is lifted soon.

Awesome post, Marsh!

sonny, like Marsh suggested, just go home. Tell her "honey, I am home. this is where I belong and this is where I will live." SMILE

Tell her this:

"hello honey, I am home! I belong here and intend to stay." That is all you need to say. If she yells dumb things at you, then smile and go into your room and unpack. Pat her on the head and wish her well if she follows you. <SMILE>

The thing is, there is no need for you to think 'fast on your feet' when dealing w/ a crazed wayward.

B/c there is no use in reasoning w/ her.

No use pleading w/ her to understand your POV.

No use trying to educate her about how much this is hurting you or the children.

She is numb to it all. Numb to reasoning. Numb to understanding reality. Numb to your feelings or your children's feelings.

If you can accept this, you'll do fine.

..Accept that she's going to be ugly angry!

Remind yourself that her feelings are HER feelings, and that YOU are not responsible for them, no matter what she says or does.

Do not let her anger stop you from what you need to do.

You have a plan.

Work it, knowing that you are doing the right thing...fighting to save your family.

~ Marsh

When you go home...it's likely best to just go there to see your kids and move your bags in unannounced. Then just stay.

Also...I mentioned a recording device (voice activated digital recorder with fresh batteries) in your pocket.

This is to protect you. IF she starts yelling and screaming and threatening to call the cops...start recording immediately. She will MOST DEFINITELY incriminate herself between the time the cops come and the time she called them. YOU remain calm.

Wayward wives have been known to hit and scratch themselves or attack YOU to try to build a case for a restraining order. You may not want your kids around but she may be less likely to do so in front of them (or at least she'll look horrible to any judge for faking a claim and her ranting in front of them IF you've got her on tape).

Again...NO FOREWARNING. Just move in...immediately.

Then...expose.

btw...OM's position (as you stated in your email) should be substantially susceptible to exposure beyond just administration. Maybe phase two.

Mr. Wondering

At what point will she be able to accept resoning and What needs to happen. What can I do to get there.

How will she get over her anger. How can I work on plan A if she pissed of.

I plan on being the nice husban. I will do my part in the house. I will keep shouwing her that I have changed for the better. I will try to keep myselfe occupied with the house and runing arrons. Is this a good plan. I will try to avoid negative intreactions when possiable.

You won't be able to reason w/ her until after the A is over, and she gets through w/drawals.

Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do to speed this up.



You will get opportunities.




Yes, very good.

~ Marsh

My WW is absolutely furious with me, and she seems to get madder every day. I don't worry about it.

Things haven't worked out the way she thought they would. Instead happiness the affair has brought her misery, poverty, unemployment, huge legal bills, traumatized children, lost friends, a disaproving family, and public humiliation. Of course, she blames ME for all of those things. I was supposed to meekly agree to whatever she wanted. Because I'm fighting back and fighting for my family it's making things difficult for her. And that makes her mad.

I'm sure one day she will get over the anger and realize that SHE created the mess she's in. She is responsible. The person she should be mad at is herself.

Until then I just ignore her anger.

Do NOT worry about her getting mad at you. She's going to be mad at you for standing up for your marriage and your family. Either that or she's going to have absolutely no respect for you because you aren't fighting. There is NO WAY you stand a chance of fixing your marriage if she has no respect for you, so fight.

She found a new place to live so we wont be living together too long. Is plan A now void?

No.

You will still get opportunities to Plan A her when you drop off and pick up the children.

What happened? Did you move home?

~ Marsh

Before I could move in she told me that she found a place to live.

Should I still move in. Its seems pointless now. It will get her pissed off and I feel I won't be accoplishing anything. Will it?

Move in. She may be bluffing. But move in and see. Men should never leave the home if wife is straying.

Did you tell her you were going to move back in?

Yes, you most definitely should move in!

It is your home...the family home.

You are at a HUGE disadvantage by moving out. The courts will look at your moving out, as abandonment of your children!

You won't be able to save your M...save your family, if you are afraid to make her mad.

~ Marsh

Sonny,

Move home!

Do all that you can do to make life with you more attractive than with OM. This is the crux of Plan A. You have to do all that you can for her in the way of meeting her needs, but only as she allows it to happen. This is not to say that if she leaves you stop trying, only that you do what is possible in so far as she allows you to do it.

Have you exposed the affair yet?

You need to focus on saving the marriage, taking care of the kids and making sure you are making changes that she can see. You need to out affair OM as much as possible.

All of this assumes that you really want to fight for the marriage. If you are not certain that you are in this for the long haul, just call it a day and save yourself a lot of grief. But if you really want to save the marriage, Plan A...devise a specific plan...work the plan...continue the plan regardless of what she says or does...stick with the plan...

The whole idea of Plan A and Plan B is just that. They are specific things to be done that are not dependent on what the WS does. You do your part. What she does is irrelevant. You Plan A until your love is in danger of going the way of the dodo bird. Then you go to Plan B until the affair ends and she is willing to meet your requirements for reconciliation or two years after the ink is dry on the divorce decree.

What she says, what she does and where she lives has no bearing on what you do. Learn, plan and act instead of reacting and chasing your tail trying to figure out what to do after the fact. You have a slim chance of success, don't make it less by trying to make your actions dependent on hers. Do what you need to do and be the best you that you can be. At least that way your kids will have the best Dad they can have even if Mom turns out to be a disappointment.

Mark

move in anyway.

and

If and when she herself moves out do NOT concede custody of the kids. 50-50 in the minimum unless and until the courts order otherwise.

Read Jamesus thread. His wife moved out and told him he could have every other weekend "visitation". He accepted it to play nice not knowing she was in an affair and moving in with OM. Once he found out he should have demanded 50-50 at the very least and continued that until the court intervened. They tend to stick with the status quo in temporary hearings. His attorney told him to wait and fight it in court at the temp hearing. He lost 2 months later. Now he's got an uphill fight on his hands.

Don't concede custody. Find a way to take care of your kids 50% of the time at least. IF she won't agree this is what you tell her:

"Well since you won't agree to a reasonable custody arrangement then I am left with imposing a rather simple one until the courts can figure this out for us. From here on in...each day you keep the kids I will keep them for the same amount of days you did once you return them to me."

This way she's stuck. If she denies you ANY visitation you'll be able to nail her for parental alienation. She HAS to give you some visitation or lose. Then when you get the kids you just keep them the same number of days she did. She can yell and scream all she wants but you TRIED to be reasonable and negotiate a fair 50-50 arrangement with set times and dates but she wouldn't be reasonable.

You are NOT required to concede to her will.

Back to the original point. Being in the marital home is a good factor to have in the "best interest of the children test". Courts like to have the children stay in their own familiar homes and beds to the greatest extent possible. I sure hope you can afford to live there. Beg and borrow if you can to stay. It will really supplant your case if you can manage it. Plus...your kids need that stability in their lives. You can always move AFTER you win the temporary orders as the actual divorce will take time to be put through.

Mr. Wondering

Well I just moved back in to my house. I am just waiting for her to come home. I have no idea what is going to happen. We talked on the phone today. She tryed to justify her affair. She said she did not mean for this to happen. She still blames both BS for the affair. She tryed to make all BS and WW, WH friends at first. She said that we regected it.

I have another question... YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE... PLEASE DO NOT READ THE REST





Today in the mail I found a letter from her doc.. I was cuirous and I oppended it. It happens to be a referal to get UDI device. The last couple of years together we were using condoms. We were using condoms because she did not want to get the pill b/c hormones and these other divices just looked to intrusove. But now its okay. What should I do with this letter. Should I give it to her-- I don't want her to be pregnant. Or should I keep it, toss it. I know That she is now on the pill, I guess as a temparery thing.(the ******) What should I do? [color:"red"] [/color]

Great job moving back home. It's tough, but it had to be done.

Be careful opening her mail. If she wants to make legal trouble over that she might be able to.

She's going to have to get some kind of birth control Her OM is a selfish [censored] -- he wouldn't be going after married women if he weren't. It's not like he's going to take any kind of responsibility. She will bend over backwards to please him. Get used to finding out how she'll do all sorts of things for him that that she wouldn't do for you.

Right now she won't realize that if she had been even HALF as nice to you as she is to him she would have the best marriage in history.

Give her the letter if it looks like you didn't open it.

My WW ordered birth control pills over the internet. I know it's like a knife twisting in your gut. But it's better than her getting pregnant by a guy who will probably be long gone by the time the baby is born.

Hang in there.

Well I did open the mail. Should I still give it to her? I just can't believe how selfish is has become. She is doing things with this guy that she would not do with me, the irony. I am starting to feel disgusted by her. Is this good? Its like when ever I see her I see her as she is dirty... I wonder where she's been. And that messes up my head. How much longer can I keep this up. I sometimes feel like I am being humiliated and my "manhood" is at risk.

Sonny,

You need to develop a specific plan to deal with the affair. You can't control her. You only have control over yourself. You have to do what you need to do to take care of those kids and plan a course of action to break up the affair. Your love for her is dying quickly and you need to stop the bleeding before it is too late.

What can you do as far as Plan A? Do you understand that concept? Do you get the idea of what it is supposed to do?

Anything you do that shows her disrespect or is any kind of love buster will work against you.

Do you have any idea what her top ENs are? Can you fill out the questionnaire as if it were her filling it out (just your best guess here) and try to meet her ENs? Figure out what her top love busters are and in fact, try ro figure out what love busters you are doing and stop them all.

No amount of arguing, threatening or coercing will get her back. You and OM's W can work together if you can both come up with a plan and both stick with it.

Plan A seriously for a fairly short time at this point and if no success seems to be coming around, have Plan B already planned out and ready to go so that you can stop the insanity.

Have you read up on Plan A and B? Do you know what they are?

Mark

PS You've got email...

As far as I understan Plan "A" is when I make improvements on myself. I keep trying to meet her EN.

My question is will she be willing to accept things that meet her EM. For example. One of her EM is to have deep conversations. I just don't see her sitting down and start to chat. This could be b/c we do have other issues not directly relating with the affair. She has said "I don't feel safe/comfortalbe talking to you, or being around you, I feel pressure." As you could imagine moving back in just added to that pressure. This will only make more distant. How can I work with this?

Another thing in plan A I should request for the affair to end. How do I do that. I have been asking, telling, demanding, it to end already. She never realy gets into any specific but always ends up telling me that she is going to do what she wants, no one will control her. How Can I work with this.

Sonny,

First thing about meeting her ENs and doing Plan A stuff is that your time together right now should not include discussions of relationship issues. You need to do things together that build love bank balances in both of you and not create more tension between you.

This must be balanced of course by attempting to end the affair. The one thing that will cause great conflict is exposure. This is one reason it needs to happen quickly and suddenly. You don't want to undo the headway you have built up while in Plan A.

The step that needs to happen first is that of saving the marriage from the affair. Long-standing relationship issues and discussions of what happened and why need to wait for recovery. Do step one first and leave step two till later.

A fact of affairs is that nearly all of them come an end all by themselves. Exposure can often hasten that end, but seldom does Plan A cause the affair to end. That is why there is Plan B. It allows you to detach from your WW until the affair does end, usually on its own.

Plan A is about making changes to yourself that can be seen, not that you discuss with her. Be the best father and husband that you can be. Identify love busting behaviors in yourself and put a stop to them. Attract her back by being better than the affair partner and being the man you need to be for her.

At the same time protect yourself and marital assets the best you can. Don't do anything to fuel or enable the affair. This includes keeping the kids while she meets with him. Plan a family outing for your time together and if she will not join you, go without her. Begin to detach from the affair itself even before detaching from her. Don't finance the affair, make it easy for her to continue the affair or give her any implied permission to have the affair. Don't discuss the affair or the prospect of divorce. Do not threaten or attempt to coerce her. You can't control her and shouldn't even try.

Keep a journal or some other method of documenting what she is doing and what you are doing as well. When it comes time for Plan B this will give you some leverage in negotiating a LSA and gaining custodial rights to your children. Make them your priority because their lives are being affected by this as much or more than yours is. They too are being hurt by her behavior.

Hang in there. Complete exposure if you haven't don't give her a chance to spin it first.

Mark

Could it be true that she does not love any more. It hurts me every time she tells me. "I don't Love YOU, I stop loving you for some time". Should I just give up???? I don't understan how is it that I adore her and she feels the oposite. Are her feelings true??

My WW is planing on moving out. Can I still work on Plan A. I don't know how. Can someone help me. I know I can work on myself but how can I meet EN when I don't live with her. I feel so lost, and exhusted (emotionaly abused).

Hey Sonny,

Mrs. RIF said the same thing (and then some...) to me when she was involved in her A's...

To answer your question: Should you just give up???? Well, only YOU can answer that question.

What have you done to expose her A? How are you doing with Plan-A?

Semper Fi,

RIF

Sonny,

My heart goes out to you.

I could go on a tirade of epic proportions, but it wouldn't help you. I'm sure you've already thought what I'm thinking, anyway.

I am coping with the same thing about how to handle my wife's affair since she doesn't want to end the affair.

I know to follow the plans and have herad that before....but each person has their own issues to deal with and their own reasons for either following or not following the plans...

Just talking about it helps me.

Sonny, they ALL say that! Read the stories here, you will see your wife's words and actions reflected in every WS. It doesn't make it any easier to hear, but you should take heart in the idea that your situation is NOT really all that unique. There are similiarities in all infidelities. The upside to this is that the responses by WS to certain actions by the BS are similar, which allows for the creation of a plan by someone that understands the patterns. That plan is MarriageBuilders, and you need to study it carefully.

The fact that your W is moving out isn't the best scenario, but its fairly common in terms of infidelity. Yes you can Plan A her still. I would suggest reading Charlotte's thread, you will gain much inspiration and insight from her situation.

Work the plans, keep posting, and definitely keep listening.

I would like to know who has succeeded with plan B. It seem that I am headed that way. Some how just stop achknowling the WS does not seem like a good idea. I think I just give the person more freedom to forget the good times. And start making new memories.

I need to hear a successs story to cheer me up.

Hey Sonny,

Before I tell you a "success" story, I'd like to get an update...

You've been here less than two weeks and you've gotten some great advice. Have you exposed the A? You mentioned something about a friend or family member helping you with exposure... has that happend yet?

I know how painful and confusing this all is, I've been there myself. It's hard to distance yourself from the pain and focus on the things that you need to do... but you must do this if you want a chance to rebuild your M.

You need to expose the A to as many people as you can in order to end the A. Until you do this, you will remain in the same situation that you are in.

Ok.... Here's a "success" story to cheer you up:

Sonny exposes his WW's A at work and exposes the A to the OM's wife. Sonny's WW gets so mad at him that she moves out and says "it's over".

Sonny takes the advice he's getting from MB and starts a great Plan-A, even though his WW has moved out of the home. Sonny continues to take great care of his kids, and even starts to work out regularly. Sonny is pleasant to his WW when she stops by to see the kids. Sonny continues to work on himself w/o worrying about the "relationship".

Due to Sonny's great exposure, the A ends. WW is still very angry with Sonny and keeps saying "it's over"... blah, blah, blah...

Sonny's WW still comes around to see the kids, and Sonny doesn't try to pressure her into talking about the "relationship"... He's calm and collected and only talks about the kids and how great HE's doing now.

Sonny's WW starts to notice the changes... and starts to come around more often. Sonny continues a great Plan-A with the help of his MB friends.

Sonny's WW starts to de-fog a little bit and realizes what a huge mistake she's made. Sonny continues with his great Plan-A. NC is working because by this time, either Sonny's WW or the OM have changed jobs. Sonny is becoming more confident in himself and continues with Plan-A.

Sonny's WW asks to come back home.

The end.

Sonny - This could be YOUR success story.

Semper Fi,

RIF

with all the exposure done still nothing has changed. She Claims that the A is not whats breacking us up. She tell me that its me that she can't stand. She just does not want to be married to me. It does not matter if she was having the A or not. She will not change her mind. How can I meet EN if she stoppes living with me, and really does not want me around.

By standing up for yourself and protecting your children from your currently immoral and indecent wife.

Exposure plus loss of children (to the extent allowable by lawA) eventually wakes them up.

Nearly ALL affairs end within 2 years of exposure.

I don't know how far down the Plan A path you are but if she has not moved out yet...then, Plan B should wait until shortly after she actually does so.

Until then...keep Plan A'ing. Don't allow her to take the kids (or at a minimum demand/insist nicely that 50-50 is the standard until a court says otherwise.

Success stories...mortarman, mimi, mywifeilove and plenty of others. Typically, Plan b's take a long while to actually work but at least YOU are safe and beginning your journey of personal recovery without having to endure the daily pain of watching and interacting with an active wayward spouse as they destroy themselves and all those around them.

Eventually the affair self-destructs.

Mr. Wondering

What she is saying is what all waywards say.

Would you take seriously the words of a falling down drunk?

Then neither should you pay attention to what she says.

You keep doing the right thing.

Improve yourself. Spend more time w/ your children.

Here's a list of Do's and Don'ts Mr. W found...


DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP


~ Marsh

Great post RIF!

Sonny,

This is the point of Plan A. You do Plan A no matter what she does, no matter what she says, no matter where she goes or who she sees. Plan A is all about making yourself a better husband and letting her see that.

When it is time for Plan B, that is NOT the same as her moving out to live with OM or you tossing her out because you are angry. Plan B should be a calculated move because it IS such a great risk. Dr H suggests it as a last resort, not as phase 2 of a two step process. It isn't supposed to bring her back, it is supposed to give you a break from dealing with her [email]cr@p[/email] until she gets her poop grouped and comes to you for reconciliation on your terms, which you establish before you begin Plan B so that she understands what it is you need from her before it gets to that point and so that YOU know it too and give to her in writing on the day you begin Plan B.

Plan A is NOT trying to fix the marriage, only to make the WS aware of how great you are. You have to simply be a better alternative to the fantasy of OM which will eventually wear thin. Fixing things comes in recovery, but you have to save the marriage first. You do this by executing a good Plan A until you near burn out from not getting your ENs met and then go to Plan B until the A dies on its own, which it statistically will do within two years even if she files for and is granted a divorce. At that point her last memories of you will be how good, caring and supportive you were and likely seek to return. Then you get to try to fix it.

See Ark's thread on playing the Plan A game...The Rules of the Game

Mark

Edited to add: ALL wayward spouses say those kinds of things, Sonny. My wife said it wasn't about OM, it was about me and us and how she wasn't happy for years and it just wasn't ever going to get better and blah-blah-blah. IGNORE IT!

Thanks I needed those words from u guys. I have felt so alone the past coulple of days.

I don't have to much time before she moves out. She moves by the end of the month. I don't know if this is a good sign or I am just trying to make something good for something bad, but she told me that her new place is rental not a lease. She did not want to comit to a lease. Could she be thinking that she is unsure on her moves. I don't know I might be reading too much into it.

During this short time I will be on Plan A.

One thing she told me was that she sees the changes in me but it does not move her. It does not matter to her any more. She said I'm too late. Could I really be? My W just seems so head strong on how she feels.

Blah-blah-blah...

Plan A.

No relationship discussions at all. NONE!
Only good things done together (fun stuff, not long talks about the marriage and where it went wrong)
Lots of family time, you the kids and her if she'll join you, doing things that all can enjoy.
Do as much extra around the house as you can manage, help with laundry, pick up after the kids, fix dinner and have it ready when she gets home a time or two...Make YOU better than OM.
Ooze confidence from every pore.
Let her know how much you care about her by what you do rather than what you say.
Rub her feet for her after a long day and then just say "goodnight" and go to bed.

And when she moves out, continue the above as much as possible without ever expecting anything from her in return while pondering what your requirements for reconciliation will be so that you can put them into writing at the time of Plan B if it gets to that point. Set a date when she will come home or Plan B will start. You don't tell her about it or discuss it. It isn't something to be negotiated. If it gets there it will be for you to survive and heal from the pain so that if and when she wants to come home, you will have enough left to welcome her and begin again.

Mark

Today was wierd. She got home somewhat late. You know what I was feeling and thinking. She did not tell me why she was late. She walked in the the door and I felt so upset because I had a feeling she was with OM. She did not say a thing. After 10 min of changing restroom time she comes up to me and DD and saids hi. I asked her "did you have dinner yet?" she tells me, no. I tell her that I bought some take-out for all of us if she wanted. She said "oh." She sat down to eat, my kids were all over mom, it looked and felt good to have all of us together. I grabed some cloth to go to the gym, but then she started a conversation. She started to tell me about her sister. I took this oportunity to try to get some EM, love points. We talked for about an hour with the kids hanging around. It almost felt like when things were 5 month ago. It was wierd. I hope things will contiune this way.

I only have a couple of weeks before she moves. Should I try to convince her to stay? Maybe I could tell her some bs about how much it will cost for her to move out or something. It might make me look desperate again, I don't know.

Hey Sonny!

You did great!!! and NO! Don't try to "talk her out" of moving... just keep doing what you did last night.

The LAST thing you want to do is start begging and getting all clingy and needy... women hate that! Be a man and tell her that you would prefer that she stay, but if she feels that she must go, then let her know that you and the kids will miss her... then don't say another word!

You can do this Sonny... you just told us that you did it last night... it's not easy, but it works... Also how's the exposure going?

Semper Fi,

RIF

Well she would take the kids with her. We would try to split the time with them. But for now she would take them. I work night so they need to sleep with her.

I had a question. I have an oportunity to go to a morrnig shift. Should I take it. I feel that if I take the morrning shift this would give her more free time to spend with OM. Maybe she would start sleepovers whenever I have my kids over night. I would think that I would spend more time with my kids going to the am shift but I don't want aid WS and OM in the A. What should I do?

Hey Sonny,

First, you GOT to stop worrying about what your W and the OM are doing... you MUST expose the A.

As for the job, I would take whatever shift allowed you more time with your kids... don't worry about your WW and the OM having "sleepovers"... focus on Plan-A and taking care of your kids...

Semper Fi,

RIF

[quote]Hey Sonny,

First, you GOT to stop worrying about what your W and the OM are doing... you MUST expose the A.

I don't know how. I this OM has really got under my skin. The whole situation si f___ up. I mean I know this guy. At times it drives me crazy. This A__ was at my wedding, has been at my house for my kid's b-day.

I feel so frustrated...

You need to think long and hard about allowing her to take your kids out of the family home to persue an extramarital affair. I would suggest doing anything possible to prevent that from happening, up to and including filing for divorce.

You see, if you let her leave and take the kids, and six months down the road she files for divorce, she's going to use the fact that she has had uncontested primary custody since you separated in the divorce proceedings. Don't allow her to set that precedent.

Would changing shifts allow you to care for the kids in the evening? If so, then change shifts, not for her, but for your kids. You have the moral high ground here, theres no reason for her to take your kids off into affair fantasy land. If she wants to leave the home, then there are consequences to that behavior, one of those should be her choosing to abandon her children.

Hi Sonny,

OK, tell us what you know about this OM... Then let some of the others here help you come up with a PLAN for you to expose...

I know it's frustrating and your emotions are all over the place... but you've GOT to get a hold of yourself here and start working on a plan...

Semper Fi,

RIF

OM is a "Chistian". Everyone knows him as such. (the irony). He's been married about 15 yrs and has an adobted DD. His wife and I have talked and are for the most part on the same page. She did the mistake of kicking him out when I came up to her and told her what I knew about the A. At this point she is unsure if she wants him back. She has been suspecting of the A longer than me. He has older parents and I don't think they can influece him much. His brother is very upset along with some of his close family friends. I feel that if OM W were to want him back she can. I think that my WW and OM eventualy will not match. There are too many diffrences, cluturally, and lifestyles.

He is white, WW is latina immigrant. He grew up privlaged my WW grew up very humbly. My WW is english as second language (esl). He went to private Uni. My WW attended public school all of her life including Uni. They like differnt music. They like differant activities. The only thing that they have in common that I see is that they both like to talk/listen. My WW has a lot of issues that she needs to express and he has been the ear to all that.

How can I use is. to break them up.

Expose the A to his pastor.


This is usually the case any way. This is why you do a strong Plan A to show her how good life with you can be, and then follow that with a dark Plan B to save enough love for her that when she comes back and asks to return you have the energy and desire to work things out.


Plan A, followed by Plan B if needed.

Remember that neither Plan A or Plan B is trying to fix the marriage. They are both about making the marriage a place for the WS to return to. Plan A fixes YOU. Plan B protects YOU. Recovery is the hard work of fixing the marriage, but you have to get there first.

And it ain't over till you say it is, no matter what she say or does, even divorce ends it only if you let it. She could return next week or two years from now. The question is what will you do to make that more likely? (Answer: Plan A, then Plan B)

Mark

Sonny,

You are getting great advice listen to it.

Permit me to repeat it for you.

First, expose the affair to his church, even his place of employment is a target. Make sure his family knows, your W's family knows.

Then take the day shift so that YOU can be with your kids at night. Your #1 job is being a good/great father to them. Don't let her take the kids, keep them at home where they have friends and are comfortable. If she wants to leave, then let her, she is a big girl and she can make those decisions. She also gets to live with the consequences of those decisions, which is limited time with the kids and YOU becoming the major person in their lives.

Sonny, people who have an affair do NOT count the cost until much later. Have faith in that. Protect your kids, protect yourself, don't worry about OM other than to expose this affair, and let your W make her own decisions, she is going to anyway. After all she decided to have an affair.

Have faith in yourself and invest in your children. You will NEVER regret that.

God Bless,

JL

Expose the A to his pastor.

His BS has done this already and it was no effect.

That you have seen yet.

And this stops you from going to his pastor as well how? Perhaps his W told the pastor and when asked OM said, "I've been worried about her lately. She's been hallucinating or somethings and...blah-blah-blah" But if you go to him as well, then the pastor steps back and says, Hey, Dude, what's this all about?" (Either that or he's a poor excuse for a pastor.)

This is why exposure has to be swift, sudden and overwhelming. The less time the affair partners have to give it a friendly spin the better it will do what it is supposed to do, which is to get other people to begin putting pressure on them to stop what they are doing.

And it isn't one giant weight that does the trick, but one straw at a time piled high on the camel that breaks its back over time. Lot's of exposure to everyone within the sphere of influence of the WS and OP are potential allies.

Trust me, it is having an effect. Unless the guy has had a lobotomy recently, the fact that his pastor does not see him with the same respect as before is giving him fits when he thinks about it.

This is the whole point of exposure. You don't expose and expect the WS to come running home within a couple hours begging for forgiveness. It's not gonna happen!

What happens through exposure is that the fantasy of the affair is infringed on just a little bit and the affair partners have no choice but to begin to examine what they are doing. It isn't a gale that blows away the fog in an instant, but a gentle breeze that slowly begins to cause the fog to swirl around and give brief glimpses of reality.

I have to tell you that unless she has threatened to kill you or something similar, you haven't been exposing to enough people fast enough or to the right people. This is the ONE thing that if done properly evokes a huge reaction from a WS because you are interfering with the source of their crack! They are addicted and when you get in the way you will experience the full weight of their wrath. If you aren't getting that, you aren't getting in the way enough.

NOTHING in this will be instant gratification. It is not a sprint, but a marathon, in fact it is more like a triathlon since you have to first get the affair ended, then get a commitment from WW to return to the marriage and then and only then, start to work on the real issues and healing.

Mark

The thing is that I am not sure that he was really close with the pastor. Ever since the A was discorvered he stopped going to that church.

What else can I do on OM side? Should I email him? Should I meet him? Should I bumb into them while they are on thier "dates". How else can I bring pressure to them. And how can I do this without making love busters. I currently doing things for WW to meet EN. If I get too agresive wouldn't that erase all of the EN points I have done?

Its so hard to be cool with WW when I know what she is doing with OM.

Well WW is moving out this weakend. I have mixed feelings. In a way I am looking forward to seeing her leave. I am Hurt. Evey rejection from her just adds to that pain. I don't want to loose my family.

I need some advice on how to continue Plan A whaile she is out of the house. How can I give EN if I cant reach her. We are still going to see each other everyday(kids). But it will be just a couple of minutes. I really don't know how are things going to work out. I think she will enjoy her new found freedom and will never want to come back.

Did you take the morning shift opening? If not you should take it as it will give more time with children and enable you to protect them.

Are you insisting upon a 50-50 plan for the kids at a minimum? I think you should be demanding more.

In a few weeks you should consider Plan B to protect your lovebank so that if and when the affair ends, you will have retained enough love for her to want to attempt reconciliation yourself.

Don't help her move and don't let her take hardly anything but her personal items. Divorce court and lawyers divide up marital property. She has no RIGHT to take them from the marital home. They are community property in your state. Make her pursue legally obtaining rights to them. Until then, she leaves with her clothes and very little kids stuff needed to take care of the kids only. No beds, no dressers, no couches....NOTHING. Change the locks when she leaves so she doesn't come back to get it.

Appeasement will get you no where. The harder it is the more tumultuous the whole situation is and the more likely OM is to dump her due to the hassle. Disrupting the affair but remaining calm is the key. NO LOVEBUSTERS but stand strong against her immoral decisions and don't assist her making them.

Mr. Wondering

Sonny,

How are you doing?

I know this is a tough day for you, but you can get through it.

Speak to us...

Hello...

Come in....


Mark

Well it has been tough. Thanksgiving has been special the last 4/5 years. Most of our families would come to our house and have dinner. The house would be filled with love ones. At then end of the night when everyone was gone and the kids were asleep we would make love. We consived 2 of our kids during Thanksgiving.

This year for sake of our 7yr old we had dinner only the 4 of us. It was not the same. She left to her sister soon after dinner. She still has not return. She starts moving tomorow. I don't know if I should start Plan B.

My love bank is realy hurting... I cant stop thinking of her with the OM. I can't stop thinking that she love him over me. How can I get her back.. She seems so gone now, so sure of herself, she must be proud of what she's doing. Lately I've been feeling numb. I can't discribe it. It's like I am in a daze.

Will I ever get her back???? I know I sound pitiful.

Prepare a Plan B. Start putting your thoughts on paper.

Things you need to consider:

Who will you get to be an intermediary between you and WW in regard to handing off the kids to each other.
What kind of financial plans do you need to make in order to supply for your children while not financing the affair?
What, besides the end of the affair will you need from her in order to take her back and begin working on the marriage?

When you get it together, folks here can help you to write a Plan B letter. Once you give it to her, you need to avoid seeing her, talking to her etc like the plague. What you put down on paper in your letter is what you will have to live with.

If you can spring for it, a call to Steve or Jennifer would do you a lot of good. They can cut to the chase and get more across in 45 minutes than a month of regular counseling. As an alternative, call or email Dr Harley's radio program. Nothing like getting it straight from the source when it comes to this stuff.

Have you looked into that day shift position? It would give you more leverage to have custodial custody of your children. They can be with you at night that way rather than with her and OM. It also gives you additional leverage against the affair because then she has to work seeing the kids into her schedule rather than you having to jump through hoops to see them. If she misses the kids enough, it might just cause her to think instead of just DOING what she feels like.

Keep a journal. Write down everything you do for your kids. Visits with them, things you buy, things you pay for though she buys them, times she gives you grief over seeing them...all of that becomes leverage.

In the mean time...Keep going on Plan A. Don't expect anything form your WW. No relationship talks. No discussions of lost love or any of that. Just give her pleasant conversation and show your love for her by your actions. Don't talk about it, do it.

When you go dark in Plan B, her last memory of you should be how nice you were and how supportive you were of her (not the affair or her leaving, but HER). She needs to remember you as a wonderful father to the kids as well. No arguing. No fighting. No trying to control her actions.

At the same time, do nothing to help her leave. Don't help her move. If she asks you to help, tell her you will not assist in the breakup of your family. (Make it about the family, BTW, not just you and her) Don't discuss divorce with her. Again..."I'm not willing to talk about breaking up our family."

But you probably also need to see a lawyer. You don;t have to file for divorce, but a real LSA would be nice. And insist on at least 50/50 custody. No "every other weekend and two holidays per year" crap.

You can still save your marriage Sonny. But that day shift job would really make it easier to do.


In any and all dealings with her...remain calm, cool and in control. No shouting. No arguing about anything. Under no circumstances advance toward her in a threatening manner. Make no threats, implicit or implied. I know you understand what I'm talking about. You need to be the good guys. Give her no reason to seek a restraining order or anything like that. I know you've seen those kind of things personally, so make sure you don't have any visits with warrants on your night off. Be Mr. Squeaky Clean..OK?

I'm going to be gone for the weekend. Others here can help you. Just call out for help. Somebody will be here for you. You can always email me. I check it a couple times per day from my phone, but call out to the folks here first.

Mark

Thanks, I am really hurting. Plan B sounds like more pain to come. I don't know if I can do it. Does Plan B ever work???

I feel so alone.

((((((Sonny)))))))

A giant hug for you, Sonny. I'm preparing to go into Plan B really soon and I'm terrified.

Charlotte, Be strong.. I know how hard it is... no one should go through what we are going through. I hope this will makes us stronger.

Should I bring down all of our pictures off he wall? I don't want to. It would feel like I have moved on, I don't want to move on, if that makes any sense.

What can I tell her in My Plan B letter. Can anyone give some examples of a good B letter. (preferably from someone with a success story)

Sonny,\

You have been given excellent advice and all you have done is question it and do NOTHING. You are going to lose your W, you are going to lose your children, and still you sit and say "plan b" sounds too hard, I don't know if I can do it.

Grow a set, and do some reading here. Plan B is about helping you preserve your love for your W so that you have a chance. Moving to day shift is about being with your children and having a chance to see them other than every other wed and every other weekend.

If you are going to just give up, the why are you here???

Expose the OM to who ever might have some influence and his minister is certainly one of those people. Get the day shift so that you can fight for your kids, and quit whinning and start doing. Your hurt, we get that, but your W doesn't care. Your kids are going to be hurting worse and YOU don't care, so where is the difference.

Does this sound harsh??? You should just be glad we are not face to face, I would be harsh then. Mr. if you want help you have it right here. If you don't want help just keep whinning and no help will be enough. YOU have to take some actions, you have to have a plan, YOU have to get off dead center and start standing on your hind legs again.

In short, IF you want this marriage, fight for it, and the thing you have to fight is you OWN D*** fear. Your worst enemy right now is YOU. Stop it, and get with it.

God Bless,

JL