Sonny,

First thing about meeting her ENs and doing Plan A stuff is that your time together right now should not include discussions of relationship issues. You need to do things together that build love bank balances in both of you and not create more tension between you.

This must be balanced of course by attempting to end the affair. The one thing that will cause great conflict is exposure. This is one reason it needs to happen quickly and suddenly. You don't want to undo the headway you have built up while in Plan A.

The step that needs to happen first is that of saving the marriage from the affair. Long-standing relationship issues and discussions of what happened and why need to wait for recovery. Do step one first and leave step two till later.

A fact of affairs is that nearly all of them come an end all by themselves. Exposure can often hasten that end, but seldom does Plan A cause the affair to end. That is why there is Plan B. It allows you to detach from your WW until the affair does end, usually on its own.

Plan A is about making changes to yourself that can be seen, not that you discuss with her. Be the best father and husband that you can be. Identify love busting behaviors in yourself and put a stop to them. Attract her back by being better than the affair partner and being the man you need to be for her.

At the same time protect yourself and marital assets the best you can. Don't do anything to fuel or enable the affair. This includes keeping the kids while she meets with him. Plan a family outing for your time together and if she will not join you, go without her. Begin to detach from the affair itself even before detaching from her. Don't finance the affair, make it easy for her to continue the affair or give her any implied permission to have the affair. Don't discuss the affair or the prospect of divorce. Do not threaten or attempt to coerce her. You can't control her and shouldn't even try.

Keep a journal or some other method of documenting what she is doing and what you are doing as well. When it comes time for Plan B this will give you some leverage in negotiating a LSA and gaining custodial rights to your children. Make them your priority because their lives are being affected by this as much or more than yours is. They too are being hurt by her behavior.

Hang in there. Complete exposure if you haven't don't give her a chance to spin it first.

Mark

Could it be true that she does not love any more. It hurts me every time she tells me. "I don't Love YOU, I stop loving you for some time". Should I just give up???? I don't understan how is it that I adore her and she feels the oposite. Are her feelings true??

My WW is planing on moving out. Can I still work on Plan A. I don't know how. Can someone help me. I know I can work on myself but how can I meet EN when I don't live with her. I feel so lost, and exhusted (emotionaly abused).

Hey Sonny,

Mrs. RIF said the same thing (and then some...) to me when she was involved in her A's...

To answer your question: Should you just give up???? Well, only YOU can answer that question.

What have you done to expose her A? How are you doing with Plan-A?

Semper Fi,

RIF

Sonny,

My heart goes out to you.

I could go on a tirade of epic proportions, but it wouldn't help you. I'm sure you've already thought what I'm thinking, anyway.

I am coping with the same thing about how to handle my wife's affair since she doesn't want to end the affair.

I know to follow the plans and have herad that before....but each person has their own issues to deal with and their own reasons for either following or not following the plans...

Just talking about it helps me.

Sonny, they ALL say that! Read the stories here, you will see your wife's words and actions reflected in every WS. It doesn't make it any easier to hear, but you should take heart in the idea that your situation is NOT really all that unique. There are similiarities in all infidelities. The upside to this is that the responses by WS to certain actions by the BS are similar, which allows for the creation of a plan by someone that understands the patterns. That plan is MarriageBuilders, and you need to study it carefully.

The fact that your W is moving out isn't the best scenario, but its fairly common in terms of infidelity. Yes you can Plan A her still. I would suggest reading Charlotte's thread, you will gain much inspiration and insight from her situation.

Work the plans, keep posting, and definitely keep listening.

I would like to know who has succeeded with plan B. It seem that I am headed that way. Some how just stop achknowling the WS does not seem like a good idea. I think I just give the person more freedom to forget the good times. And start making new memories.

I need to hear a successs story to cheer me up.

Hey Sonny,

Before I tell you a "success" story, I'd like to get an update...

You've been here less than two weeks and you've gotten some great advice. Have you exposed the A? You mentioned something about a friend or family member helping you with exposure... has that happend yet?

I know how painful and confusing this all is, I've been there myself. It's hard to distance yourself from the pain and focus on the things that you need to do... but you must do this if you want a chance to rebuild your M.

You need to expose the A to as many people as you can in order to end the A. Until you do this, you will remain in the same situation that you are in.

Ok.... Here's a "success" story to cheer you up:

Sonny exposes his WW's A at work and exposes the A to the OM's wife. Sonny's WW gets so mad at him that she moves out and says "it's over".

Sonny takes the advice he's getting from MB and starts a great Plan-A, even though his WW has moved out of the home. Sonny continues to take great care of his kids, and even starts to work out regularly. Sonny is pleasant to his WW when she stops by to see the kids. Sonny continues to work on himself w/o worrying about the "relationship".

Due to Sonny's great exposure, the A ends. WW is still very angry with Sonny and keeps saying "it's over"... blah, blah, blah...

Sonny's WW still comes around to see the kids, and Sonny doesn't try to pressure her into talking about the "relationship"... He's calm and collected and only talks about the kids and how great HE's doing now.

Sonny's WW starts to notice the changes... and starts to come around more often. Sonny continues a great Plan-A with the help of his MB friends.

Sonny's WW starts to de-fog a little bit and realizes what a huge mistake she's made. Sonny continues with his great Plan-A. NC is working because by this time, either Sonny's WW or the OM have changed jobs. Sonny is becoming more confident in himself and continues with Plan-A.

Sonny's WW asks to come back home.

The end.

Sonny - This could be YOUR success story.

Semper Fi,

RIF

with all the exposure done still nothing has changed. She Claims that the A is not whats breacking us up. She tell me that its me that she can't stand. She just does not want to be married to me. It does not matter if she was having the A or not. She will not change her mind. How can I meet EN if she stoppes living with me, and really does not want me around.

By standing up for yourself and protecting your children from your currently immoral and indecent wife.

Exposure plus loss of children (to the extent allowable by lawA) eventually wakes them up.

Nearly ALL affairs end within 2 years of exposure.

I don't know how far down the Plan A path you are but if she has not moved out yet...then, Plan B should wait until shortly after she actually does so.

Until then...keep Plan A'ing. Don't allow her to take the kids (or at a minimum demand/insist nicely that 50-50 is the standard until a court says otherwise.

Success stories...mortarman, mimi, mywifeilove and plenty of others. Typically, Plan b's take a long while to actually work but at least YOU are safe and beginning your journey of personal recovery without having to endure the daily pain of watching and interacting with an active wayward spouse as they destroy themselves and all those around them.

Eventually the affair self-destructs.

Mr. Wondering

What she is saying is what all waywards say.

Would you take seriously the words of a falling down drunk?

Then neither should you pay attention to what she says.

You keep doing the right thing.

Improve yourself. Spend more time w/ your children.

Here's a list of Do's and Don'ts Mr. W found...


DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP


~ Marsh

Great post RIF!

Sonny,

This is the point of Plan A. You do Plan A no matter what she does, no matter what she says, no matter where she goes or who she sees. Plan A is all about making yourself a better husband and letting her see that.

When it is time for Plan B, that is NOT the same as her moving out to live with OM or you tossing her out because you are angry. Plan B should be a calculated move because it IS such a great risk. Dr H suggests it as a last resort, not as phase 2 of a two step process. It isn't supposed to bring her back, it is supposed to give you a break from dealing with her [email]cr@p[/email] until she gets her poop grouped and comes to you for reconciliation on your terms, which you establish before you begin Plan B so that she understands what it is you need from her before it gets to that point and so that YOU know it too and give to her in writing on the day you begin Plan B.

Plan A is NOT trying to fix the marriage, only to make the WS aware of how great you are. You have to simply be a better alternative to the fantasy of OM which will eventually wear thin. Fixing things comes in recovery, but you have to save the marriage first. You do this by executing a good Plan A until you near burn out from not getting your ENs met and then go to Plan B until the A dies on its own, which it statistically will do within two years even if she files for and is granted a divorce. At that point her last memories of you will be how good, caring and supportive you were and likely seek to return. Then you get to try to fix it.

See Ark's thread on playing the Plan A game...The Rules of the Game

Mark

Edited to add: ALL wayward spouses say those kinds of things, Sonny. My wife said it wasn't about OM, it was about me and us and how she wasn't happy for years and it just wasn't ever going to get better and blah-blah-blah. IGNORE IT!

Thanks I needed those words from u guys. I have felt so alone the past coulple of days.

I don't have to much time before she moves out. She moves by the end of the month. I don't know if this is a good sign or I am just trying to make something good for something bad, but she told me that her new place is rental not a lease. She did not want to comit to a lease. Could she be thinking that she is unsure on her moves. I don't know I might be reading too much into it.

During this short time I will be on Plan A.

One thing she told me was that she sees the changes in me but it does not move her. It does not matter to her any more. She said I'm too late. Could I really be? My W just seems so head strong on how she feels.

Blah-blah-blah...

Plan A.

No relationship discussions at all. NONE!
Only good things done together (fun stuff, not long talks about the marriage and where it went wrong)
Lots of family time, you the kids and her if she'll join you, doing things that all can enjoy.
Do as much extra around the house as you can manage, help with laundry, pick up after the kids, fix dinner and have it ready when she gets home a time or two...Make YOU better than OM.
Ooze confidence from every pore.
Let her know how much you care about her by what you do rather than what you say.
Rub her feet for her after a long day and then just say "goodnight" and go to bed.

And when she moves out, continue the above as much as possible without ever expecting anything from her in return while pondering what your requirements for reconciliation will be so that you can put them into writing at the time of Plan B if it gets to that point. Set a date when she will come home or Plan B will start. You don't tell her about it or discuss it. It isn't something to be negotiated. If it gets there it will be for you to survive and heal from the pain so that if and when she wants to come home, you will have enough left to welcome her and begin again.

Mark

Today was wierd. She got home somewhat late. You know what I was feeling and thinking. She did not tell me why she was late. She walked in the the door and I felt so upset because I had a feeling she was with OM. She did not say a thing. After 10 min of changing restroom time she comes up to me and DD and saids hi. I asked her "did you have dinner yet?" she tells me, no. I tell her that I bought some take-out for all of us if she wanted. She said "oh." She sat down to eat, my kids were all over mom, it looked and felt good to have all of us together. I grabed some cloth to go to the gym, but then she started a conversation. She started to tell me about her sister. I took this oportunity to try to get some EM, love points. We talked for about an hour with the kids hanging around. It almost felt like when things were 5 month ago. It was wierd. I hope things will contiune this way.

I only have a couple of weeks before she moves. Should I try to convince her to stay? Maybe I could tell her some bs about how much it will cost for her to move out or something. It might make me look desperate again, I don't know.

Hey Sonny!

You did great!!! and NO! Don't try to "talk her out" of moving... just keep doing what you did last night.

The LAST thing you want to do is start begging and getting all clingy and needy... women hate that! Be a man and tell her that you would prefer that she stay, but if she feels that she must go, then let her know that you and the kids will miss her... then don't say another word!

You can do this Sonny... you just told us that you did it last night... it's not easy, but it works... Also how's the exposure going?

Semper Fi,

RIF

Well she would take the kids with her. We would try to split the time with them. But for now she would take them. I work night so they need to sleep with her.

I had a question. I have an oportunity to go to a morrnig shift. Should I take it. I feel that if I take the morrning shift this would give her more free time to spend with OM. Maybe she would start sleepovers whenever I have my kids over night. I would think that I would spend more time with my kids going to the am shift but I don't want aid WS and OM in the A. What should I do?

Hey Sonny,

First, you GOT to stop worrying about what your W and the OM are doing... you MUST expose the A.

As for the job, I would take whatever shift allowed you more time with your kids... don't worry about your WW and the OM having "sleepovers"... focus on Plan-A and taking care of your kids...

Semper Fi,

RIF

[quote]Hey Sonny,

First, you GOT to stop worrying about what your W and the OM are doing... you MUST expose the A.