Mark 1952
I do not know how I missed you reply. I just now read it and found it to be very helpful!!
My husband says he is going to move out because of the arguing, etc. It seems as though I should stay in Plan A until he does leave? At this point I am sure that there is not much I have done recently to give him a want to come back to me. Should I go into Plan A until he leaves?




I have been reading this site for quite some time and finally registered tonight! Need some advice on where to go from here. My husband and I started a home daycare a couple years ago. I picked up two part time jobs to bring in extra $ to get out of debt. Meanwhile, my husband began an affair with one of the "mom's" who was bringing her infant to our house. No need to go into the nightmare that ensued but, his behavior escalated and he became very nasty and mentally/verbally abusive. I had him leave the house and he chose to move into the OW house (with the OWH and baby!) The OWH had no clue-after three weeks, I told the OWH and my husband was asked to leave that night. He came knocking on my door and I let him stay the night. This was back in April of this year. Since then it has been a tough road and was two months of no-contact with the OW and starting to come out of the withdrawal state and participating in our family again. Then, the OW contacted him on-line. That same day he told me about it, showed it to me and his response (which was...'this is not a good thing for me to talk to you right now'). The psycho she is she persisted, called his cell and the home # and when he answered she would have her baby talk into the phone - she knew how to get to him. I saw it coming and told him to stay away but after 2 weeks of this, he gave in. He stopped going to his personal counseling sessions and we are back to the same crap as before. He says that he needs to talk to her and be able to work through what they had so that he can move on. I know they are in full swing again over the last two weeks-all the signs are there. I was able to spend the week of Thanksgiving and afterwards being kind, uplifting, etc, etc. I thought this was working but, I melted because of all the distrust! I cannot live with him in this situation and our 5 yo daughter told me she cannot stand the arguing. Since I now work outside of the house FT and he runs the Home daycare, he thinks we should be seperated for a while and wants me to go stay with a friend or family member and still contribute to the bills at home! I feel that if I leave the house, he will move her in as I read on a text sent to her today..."just think when you move in, you will be able to save $ on daycare....." I confronted him and he said I violated his privacy and he was done with me and our marriage. he told me to move out for good. I know that he is pushing me again so that I will back down and beg please don't, etc, etc. The fact is that I would not be able to stand the OW living in my house!(it is a rental, we do not own). I do not know if I should take my daughter and go stay with my friend(which I told him I was going to do tomorrow) or just pack up and go live with his mom out of state. His mom has told me that we are welcome and completely disagrees with his behavior. I do realize this is still her son no matter what and am not sure if this is safe for me either!? HELP!

First thing you should do is to expose it to her husband again.

You probably already know this, use Plan A and expose to anyone whom your H respects including his parents, friends, etc.

I don't think you should move out at all unless he is physically abusive or something in that nature.

That sounds right. The crazy thing is that he justifies talking to her as being okay because I know that he is talking to her and he has been 'honest with me about that'.

He is not physically abusive. It is constant arguing and anxiety on my part that is fueling the arguing. My poor little girl has to listen to it and I feel like I cannot control that. I feel it is not healthy for her.

Hi tru2luv!

I'm so sorry that you find yourself here but you are in the right place!!

Welcome to MB.

There's not a whole lot of traffic at night here but sometimes vets are around. If not, I know they'll be right on your thread in the a.m.

I know they will likely tell you NOT to move out.

Hang in there, tru2luv!!

((((((((((((((tru2luv)))))))))))))))

tru2luv, please be advised that bestangel is a troll.

Have you read about plan A yet? Have you exposed to his church and family?

It is NOT ok for him to talk to her. I was "honest" with my husband that I was having an affair, that didn't make it ok. Honesty doesn't outweigh bad behavior. He's in fogworld right now, much of what he says and does will not make sense.

The focus of Plan A is to improve yourself, with no expectations of him.

But Plan A is tough if he's cake-eating. He should write a no contact letter, which you approve and send to the OW. There are several examples of them in these threads.

I'm pretty new here, but some vets will be around for you soon. It's kind of slow around here on the weekends.

Thanks for the encouragement! I am usually not us this late either, can't sleep.
My husband has asked me a couple times for 'space' and to take a couple weeks and stay with someone. He told me today that if I would not keep 'pushing him' he probably would have been done talking to her by now. He said I am making him not want to be around me. I guess I should start increasing my anti-depressants instead of trying to come off of them!

A good plan A will help you stop this cycle of anxiety and anger, because you stop focusing on trying to change him and get control of your life again.

Okay, go back to Plan A. Any helpful tips on how to stay there longer than two weeks-that is all I lasted before.

Definately do not move out of your house, because that will give him "room" and "space" to further his affair. In addition, Plan A will not work as well if you're seperated.

Ugh, so sorry you find yourself here. Affairs are an addictive behavior, as you are witnessing. It is generally not recommended that the BS leave thier home, no matter what you do, do not abandon your child. It doesn't appear you are contemplating that.

If you two truly cannot coexist peacefully in the same house, then one of you has to leave. Since he is the one engaged in the adultery, it should be him that leaves. No matter what you decide regarding that, you should not enable the A. That means if you leave and he brings the OW into the home, you should not assist with the costs of maintaining what will have become his love shack.

Have you contacted OWH again and told him what is happening? Who else have you exposed the A to? This will seem rather drastic, but what about the parents of the other children that attend the home daycare? I know I would not want to bring my children into such a volatile environment. I can't imagine they would either. Exposing to them is likely to destroy the business, but such a step is also likely to bring reality crashing down on your H, especially if you are not living there and not paying the bills.

What do you want to happen? Do you want to be married to this man? If so, then you need to begin plan A, doing so while living apart is challenging. Not impossible, but more difficult. In Plan A you meet ALL of the WS needs wihtout out expecting anything in return. You also do everything in your power to kill the A.

I would hesitate to take your daughter out of state, or to your MIL's house. The bottom line best scenario for you is to stay in the home. If someone has to leave, it should be him.

Read up on the plans and really decide what you WANT to happen. It is quite possible to save a marriage from infidelity, the plans here really do work but they are oftentimes counter-intuitive. Lean on the folks here, we will help you. I'm sure someone with more experience than me will be here to help you.

Again, Plan A will make him not feel "pushed." Until he has established NC and gone through withdrawal (takes about 3 weeks after NC) he isn't going to listen to anything you have to say about the relationship. I know, I've been there. You cannot talk sense into an active wayward, it's like trying to get an addict to put down the pipe. He will say anything to get his next fix of OW.

Breathe. You have time. Gather yourself together and figure out how you are going to implement your PLAN. That puts you in control. When you have a plan you are proactive instead of reactive. The dog is wagging the tail, and not the other way around.

Do not finance him moving out in anyway. If he is determined to go do not give him any money or furniture - don't enable him.

Strength and Peace to you!

Truthfully, until the last day or so my full intent is for the marriage to work. I have faith in God and faith he can provide what is necessary for us to succeed. We have been married for 13years and together almost 17! That is half of my life! However, since there are so many other factors...poor finances, his continual reliance on pain and sleeping medications (for several years now) and his family history of affairs, bankruptcy's, addictions, it makes me wonder if he could ever overcome all of this! He seems to always take the hard road and set himself (and our family) up for failure. Now I am really confused when I look at all of these factors too! UGH!!

Is he really good day care material? Best you stay and he moves out.

Notify OW's H, expose where you can, secure your finances, secure your children's custody and move him out. Do a background check on the OW and warn all the parent's at the daycare. Who knows who else the OW has put the moves on?

There's a lot for you to do. Read SAA (Harley) and Love must be tough (Dobson). Read up on plans A & B, then implement them when you are ready. Plan A is easier but usually not successful in breaking the A but it will help you find balance and get stronger. Identify your personal and M boundaries, get your mind and heart in sync. Then you w/b able to move forward with a good plan B when you are ready.

Calling Steve H @ MB for some phone counseling w/b a good start. If you can't, find a local MC in your area who is familiar with MB concepts.

take care,
L.

L.

My husband told me that he is moving out. He is pissed because I agreed last Tuesday to going with my daughter for 4-6 weeks and staying with a friend and now I have changed my mind. I asked him in that time of our 'seperation' if he would promise that the OW would not step foot onto our property. He said he wouldn't promise that because she will probably come by so that they could 'talk'. I told him that it is not right for me and my daughter to move out and that if he chooses to continue his contact with her, then he can move out! He said he would. Should I stay in Plan A until he leaves?
The other thing is that he thinks he is going to come back here to work the home daycare each day. I know from what several of you have told me that I need to inform the parents. One thing I believe is that if I do, than they will more than likely not want him to watch their kids anymore. If that happens than he will probably never forgive me for 'taking away his only source of income'. That would not fall in line with what SAA says about transitioning from Plan A to Plan B. There will be not EN that I will have met before he left. In fact, it would create a reason not to come back to the marriage once the affair ends.
I have told him that he is the one choosing this. He says that he is but that has nothing to do with his job. He said if he cannot work than he cannot support himself or help me to support our daughter. This is a good point.Does anyone have feedback on these issues?
Please help, I am not sure what to do!

Orchid: Breathing exercises helped me. I even had anxiety attacks.

Strengthen yourself. If you find having him around as a WS is toxic to you and your family, ask him to move out. He still is obligated to his responsibilities and it is his problem to figure it out. WS' don't like to think... have you noticed this?

Let him know his actions don't make him good daycare material. That will let him know he has to straighten himself out. Of course he may babble more..... read my links on reverse babble to know how to give the WS back their guilt.

If you've got some WS babble you want input on, let us know.

L.

You're getting some great advice here and I can't add much to that, but I wanted to comment on the following:
This is all fog-babble and you should not take it seriously. You're standing in the way of his drug and he'll say anything to move you out of the way. He'll blame you for everything and you shouldn't take it to heart. I mean, how irrational is it that he blames you for his talking to the OW when you don't want him talking to her? Don't move out (thereby allowing WH to move OW in with him) because that won't help you kill the A or recover the M. Wayward spouses don't need 'space' from anyone other than the AP.

Referring to comments about the home daycare. If I decide to be the one to stay in the house, I do not want to run the daycare. I have a FT job elsewhere that I enjoy. I do think future opportunities are better for me at this job. When I asked him to leave before, I left my other two jobs to take care of the daycare and I wasn't exactly happy about it. The positive thing is that I was able to be there for my daughter and I worry about her coming off the school bus and staying at the house with him & this OW until I can pick her up from work. This thought sickens me!I do believe that the daycare (his job and income) is a big reason why he came back. He tried to watch a couple kids out of her house and he wasn't making enough money. I think that he uses the line..."wouldn't you want me to be happy and be able to continue to make money to help support our daughter". Is it wrong and vindictive to take away his only source of income? I told him after the last time that the daycare was not really for me to do day in and day out-he uses that as then why not let me take it over when I am willing and able? Him leaving will be a big fight and he has been manipualting me to push me out the door(I just realize this as I am writing). I am not quite sure if I should retain an attorney before I push the issue of him moving out? I did speak to an attorney before when we were seperated-the law is vague and it is really up to which way I want to go.One of my thoughts was that if I and my duaghter leave the house, then I can save money and clean up my credit to get back on my feet without his income. This will create the scenario he wanted from the beginning-he and the other woman to live here together. My friend says that I am giving him exactly what he wants. If I stay and force him to leave then I will be hit with all of the bills, rent, etc. that I am unable to pay on my own. Okay-breathe-take one day at a time.
PS How do I get in touch with Steve for counseling?

YOU aren't taking away his income. Its not your fault he can't run a business out of a home he can't afford on his own while living a lifestyle none of his clients approve of, is it?

Seriously, this guy is fit to care for children with all the drug abuse and all? I think that answers itself. You should also be aware that MB methods do not work on substance addicts, or at least are not as effective. Something about the chemical addiction needing to be dealt with before the A addiction can be. Others will know more.

Its a rental, let him have it if you don't care about it, but don't PAY for him to carry on his A in it. Again, it is NOT YOUR CHOICE to live this way, this is a result of HIS choices.

Why are you two unable to live together? Is he violent or abusive?

You can find info on contacting the Harley on the top of this site. "Counseling Center" I believe.

As far as us not being able to live together....
We have been arguing and I realize I have fallen into the pattern of angry outbursts, etc. Originally, a few months back (when he wasn't talking to the OW) he suggested that maybe I go stay with a family member for a couple weeks so that he can get through that time frame and we won't keep arguing. Since he has begun talking (essentially restarting the A) with the OW again, he suggested the same again. He has said various things like, "this will allow me to 'work through' the affair that we had and work through our feelings. Both of us know that it is not right but, our feelings and love is so strong"....blah,blah,blah.

When I have responded to this and said 'there is nothing right about what you are doing, feelings or not you are still going against the Bible and doing what is best for yourself, me, our daughter" He actually responded by saying that "he knew where the Bible stands but he did know what was right for him"

My question is when I am in Plan A (and I will be getting the book), I am supposed to just ignore the fact that he is talking to her on the computer, very possibly spending money on her (money which we desperately need to put food on the table), etc. How am I to deal with the financial destruction and lack of control there. We have seperate checking accounts since we were seperated back in March/April. If he will not comply to not talking to her in the house, etc. and spending $ on her (he just lies about this when I know it is a fact) then what am I to do? Stay in Plan A? It is almost impossible to maintain control of myself when utilities not getting paid, etc, etc.

This is why I thought that moving out would be better stability for my daughter and myself. He refuses to be responsible in any way. Basically, he does not care about the marriage and says that if I cannot give him the time that he needs to do 'this'(more or less talk and carry on the A) then he understands. He said we should just get a divorce and maybe we can reconcile in the future. Let's see what happens....

Thoughts, suggestions, please....

Make sure that if you're seperated/divorced, there will be NO "friendship" between the two of you and there will be no reconciliation. Make sure he knows that you will not be a doormat and a backup plan. If there is a divorce, make sure he knows that you will move on.

Let me be dumb for a minute. What is a "troll"?

BA-that seems like a very selfish and angry thing to say. For my daughters best interest I feel as though I have to be upstanding regardless of how he acts or what he does to me.

Any other 'experienced members' please give your input on this.

I do not feel like fighting fire with fire is going to create a calm environment for me and my daughter.

T2L:

BA has a point.

Your H is spouting what we call around here "Fogbabble"

If he wants a divorce, let him divorce you.

If he wants to reconcile later, agree with that.

If you think that being best buddies with someone who decides to sleep with the customers Mothers is a good idea, go ahead.

Have a warm and friendly relationship after this guy continues to run YOU thru the ringer, is another good idea.

After all, he's right you know.

And THAT is why it is all babble.

One of the things we TRY to teach around here is to "have a Plan"

Wayward people do not have one. THey make it up as they go along.

They will TELL you ANYTHING to get agreement, avoid exposure, Continue the affair, get more cash from you, secure the family home with you out of it, and custody of the children with you paying support, if they can get it.

They are making it up as they go along, and if you do not learn anything else, or get a PLAN, then what they SAY does make sense. Becasue there is nothing to refute thier babble.

Well, WE RECOMMEND THAT you GET A PLAN.

A plan that destroys the fantasy of the A for your Husband.
A plan that returns your self-respect and dignity
A plan that makes sure that no MATTER WHAT happens, you come out of this with your HEAD HELD HIGH.
A plan that CAN recreate in your husband the reasons that you got married in the first place.

These plans are available here, Are you READY?

When your WH says that "we can get back together if we divorce"

You simply state: "I do not want a divorce, and if you DO Divorce me, I will fight it as long and as hard as I can, and if it goes to the end, I will insure that the court decrees are followed to the letter. Visitation, CS, etc. THERE Will be "NO FRIENDS"

You seem to think that this would be confrontational. To Him? Yes. Cause you are NO LONGER particpating in HIS Destruction of YOUR family.

You don't have to yell or scream it, all you have to do is state it, simply, and clearly, and look him in the eye when you say it.

Will he yell? Sure, because of the "Anything to get what they want" principle noted above. And if it works, he will continue using that until it no longer works. And the above line I asked you to use on him, will stop him completely. He will relize that his old method to get you to do what he wants, no longer works. HE will then come after you with other methods. We can help with those as well.

Also, as an aside, UNLESS you are watching in excess of 5-6 children a day, the home daycare model with this lying cheating WH running it, isn't viable. IT won't be long before WH and OW are having SF in the bedroom while the daycare kids, including your daughter, are in the other room watching TV.

And once the other Parents find out about this sordid story, you will start losing your daycare kids anyway.

The cash being generated currently is being used to finance his affair. Not to watch your daughter. Yea, Some gets thrown to pay the utilities, etc, but he is ASKING YOU to move out and PAY MORE.

LG

wow LG! I agree with everything you are saying. I cannot disagree on what point. I will have to save this to my favorites and keep referring back to it as I develope and stick to my plan.

You guys are great-I have a sense of empowerment coming back to me now!

I also posted something new...realizing from reading others stories that it will give all a clear view of my entire story.

addictions

what LG said.

T2L,

You say you have read the MB site for awhile and are familiar with it.

Have you ever done a true Plan A?

I was worried about your DD because you say she cannot take the arguing.

Do you know about the lovebank and lovebusters?

How long has the A been going on?

DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT MOVE OUT. That will make it easier for the infidels to carry on their adultery.

What outraged me the most was your WS wanting you to move out and then emailing ow about her moving in?????? Oh my Goodness!!!! And for you to contribute financial and bankroll WS A?

Have you been in contact with OWH and let him know that the affair has continued?

Have you exposed to anyone else?

I know, questions, questions, questions. But if you want to save your marriage, you have to kill the affair. You do this by exposure, a good plan A, no LB's or disrespectful judgements and filling WH's EN's. Have you done these things?

I say if anyone is going to move anywhere it needs to be your WH. I would make HIM move out if he insists on separation, and call the daycare parents and say you are no longer in business. Do you really want your WS to have that daycare when he used it to have an A? As a parent, if your child was in this daycare, would you want your child there?

If you cannot afford all the bills when and if your WS moves out, then find a roomate, female, of course.

Of course, we can speculate all we want, as nothing has happened yet. This post is just MHO.

Don't mean to 2x4 you, just need more info to read your situation better.

Just know that you are WORTHY, and this is not about you.

Oh, and did I say DO NOT MOVE OUT?

God Bless, and welcome to MB.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

A little OT, but your post title put this in my head all day, I had to go look up the whole quote because it wouldn't come to me in its entirety:

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. "

A beer to the first person to name the source!

I was going to respond, but since lousygolfer approved my statements AND he explained my points, I don't think I need to further elaborate my points. I still stick to my points. If he knows that he will be "friends" with you while continue his affair and that you're willing to take him back after he has his fun with his affair, why in the world would he stop his affair? Think about it.

T2L,

What the LG and others have posted is good advice. Let's make it a bit more simple.....

Do not waste your love on a WS.

Save that for your H.

Or another way of putting it:

Plan A your real H and plan B the WS.

Why? Because doing nice things for the WS is often misconstrued as enabling the A. This doesn't mean you don't do nice things, just limit them to the times that are important for you. Don't show yourself too available or ready to please him when he is being a Ws.

For me, I eventually learned to check out my WS' attitude at the front door or at the beginning of a call. If he was in the WS mode, the convo stopped or he was not allowed in our home. When he acted like my H, then he was allowed to interact with us.

The value of you and your family s/b kept on high. Ws' need to know they can't get H benefits.

Does that help?

L.

I did unfortunately only two weeks. The week of Thanksgiving and the week after. There was a noticeable difference in our interaction with each other-very positive reaction from him toward me. Unfortuanetly, I became fearful because he is talking to the OW at this time and I did not want to fall for the 'smoke and mirrors'. The trust is far from being where it needs to be!


Yes, I am responsible-I allowed the fear and hurt get to me and I became argumentative and judgemental of his every move. I realized it is not working for me. I am so glad I joined the forum yesterday. Today, went to the library and got SAA and waiting for HNHN to come in. I am headed in a much better direction thanks to all of you.



Yes-in my stupidity, old habits, fears whatever you want to call it-I was not adding to the LB and not meeting his EN. I did not realize that you can meet the EN while the A is going on?


Started this past Feb and ended with NC around June. She contacted him about two months ago(Oct) and it started again.


I contacted him tonight to let him know-he was shocked. Funny, she told my husband that he knew they were talking! Liar, Liar.

Now that I have a clear direction of this, I am on my way to succeed!
I have been in contact with a coworker who runs the seperated/divorced program at my church. She may know of some people if I need.

No offense, just gratitude for the questions so that I can have informed answers!

I do know this but, it is nice to get confirmation of that!

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
This forum is the best Christmas present I could have ever received!!

You sound a lot better today, tru2luv.

Now you have a PLAN!!!!

Good for you!!!!

You GO girl!!!!!

Thank you Charlotte 22-I do feel more confident today! thanks for checking in!

Yes, you all have been helpful!

I understand that I should stay in Plan A if I still want to save my marriage. I am going to stay in Plan A and take this weekend to study it over and over so that I get it! My current concern is while I am focusing on myself and my needs, how can a still get the bills paid while he is hiding money. WH was supposed to give me $ on Wed and never did, then last night and never did. Now I have our rent check to cover, no cash for Christmas present for my nephew and daughter. It is apparent to me that he is spending money on the OW. How can I function and stay in Plan A with this going on?

Tyk,

It's from Frank Herbert in Dune...

T2L,

Plan A is about changing what you have control over and that is you and you alone. Dr Harley's methods differ from others in that he doesn't try to fix the marriage as first priority. Instead he attempts to reestablish the love that brought you together in the first place.

So what Plan A is about is showing your H what marriage to you can be like if he gets it together. You discover his Emotional Needs and do what he lets you in the way of meeting them. This deposits units into his Love Bank and by doing so, hopefully, shows him that you are willing and able to meet his ENs.

At the same time, you identify Love Busters that you are doing and put them to death. Love Busters are basically Independent Behavior (where you act in some way without taking him or his feelings into account before acting), Angry Outbursts, and Disrespectful Judgments (in which you make assumptions about his intent and judge him unjustly because of those assumptions.) By doing away with Love Busters, you avoid removing love units from his Love Bank, thereby creating a positive inflow, which once the level reaches a certain point, will mean that your H will have feelings of love for you once more.

At the same time you do this, you must respectfully negotiate for the establishment of a boundary of no contact (NC) with the affair partner ever again. But you must also have no expectations of any dramatic changes from him simply because you have made a change. This is what makes Plan A so hard. While you are jumping through hoops to meet his ENs and changing your own behavior to do away with Love Busters, you cannot expect him to do much or anything in the way of meeting your ENs.

One thing that will NOT work is to attempt to educate, coerce or threaten him into ending the affair. Your time with him must be pleasant to him and constant bickering or talking about the affair will not make it pleasant. The more you try to control HIM, the less control you will have over yourself, and the result will be that he will withdraw from you further because he will not like the drama and discomfort he is feeling.

This is the carrot of Plan A.

The stick of Plan A involves exposing the affair to anyone who may have influence over him or the OW and to anyone who can assist you in monitoring for continued contact. This can include OW's husband, other members of her family, his family, trusted friends, a pastor or other trusted church leader etc. It also includes doing what you can in the way of protecting family finances and assets from being frittered away on the affair.

You also need to take care of your daughter as she will be reeling from this as much or more than you are.

In the "My Musings Thread" linked in my sig line are some discussions of Plan A and on about page 4 and five are some links to some other threads as well as articles and the like from this site and a few others. You don't have to read all the ranting and intermediate discussion, but do read the posts about Plan A and the links I suggest.

Be careful that you don't try to save your marriage by fixing it. You have to save it first and once he has stopped the affair, start working on fixing what's broken. It's a long bumpy road, so strap in and hang on.

But you CAN do this. You will be stronger.

Mark

I am sorry that no one has responded regarding your finances. You need to secure your finances. Remember you have been advised to plan A your H and plan B your WH. I do not have experience with securing finances as I did not need to do that. I can only go by what I remember reading here.

I suggest that you do not pay the rent. Let the WH pay the rent. Do you have any joint accounts with money in them? If you do, I would move any money that I could into an account with only your name on it.

What about charge cards? Is he charging up money that you also are responsible for? Check out the state of any joint charge cards to see what financial mess he is getting you into.

You may need to see an attorney to help you with your finances. Also you can search this site using the term "secure finances" to get more information.

Have you been in contact with OW's BH? Does he know that the affair is back on? What about the parents of the other children in the day care? Do they know? Exposure can be very helpful to you. It will make your WH very angry. But it will also help to burst the fantasy bubble that he has regarding the nature of this "love" for OW. This is a cruel, cowardly, and selfish set of acts. This is not love. There is nothing that he and OW need to "work through". This type of talk is all fog-babble and it is WH talk.

Lake53

thank you for your feedback. I did call the OW BH Friday night. Aparently yesterday my WH received a call from the OW and she said that his life might be in danger. She said her husband threatened to kill my WH and himself. She did say that once he calmed down he said he was spouting off out of anger. I believe this to be true. Of course my WH says that I did not think before I did this, I was just trying to hurt him. I told him that I did that to try to save our marriage-of course he does not believe my intentions were that. He said that I have put his life in danger. I know that my WH is just trying to turn this around and blame on me. He is good at that-ecspecially right now. After getting off of this phone call with the OW, he told me that he is definately filing for divorce. He is no longer sitting on the fence. I found it interesting that now that she told my husband she is getting a divorce now he is claiming that he is done with our marriage.

I talked to him on the phone today when I was out. I asked him in the 4 or 5 months when there was NC what needs did I not meet of his. Why did he choose to get sucked back into her world so easily. After much diversion and blah, blah, blah and my persistence on the question he basically said that he never felt safe and secure with me. He never felt that he could lay his life in my hands and I would always do what was in his best interest. I have really been thinking about that and I believe that goes both ways-I do not feel like I have ever been completely safe and secure with him. For different reasons in childhood, we both have issues of abandonement. I realize now that we could have been relying on each other to fill that - is that realistic for a married couple to do? If there is an EN that stems so deep from childhood is it possible to meet that need? If we have both always been fearful of the other leaving then I guess we have kind of set up ourselves for that. Unfortunately, my husband does not seem interested in getting help with his own issues. He started going to a psychologist and as soon as the OW contacted him in late Oct, he stopped going.

The other thing I said to him is did he really think that in 4-5 mos. that we were going to have a great marriage and everything would be okay? He said he thought he would at least have gotten the will to work on our marriage. I told him that he spent almost 2 mos of that time in withdrawal from her and then he was on the internet flirting with other women. He never gave us a real chance. What else am I to do? I am wondering if I should just give up. It seems like he is jumping on a runaway train and doesn't care that it is going to crash.

Thankfully, I just picked up the SAA from the bookstore. I ordered from the library but it didn't come in and now they are closed until wed. It could not have come at a better time because i am so emotional and I am causing arguments between the two of us and pushing him further away. I am going to the health food store on wed to get natural anti-anxiety/anti-depressants that have worked for me in the past. I feel like I cannot control my emotions right now and that is not going to help me stay in plan A.

I did tell him that I was not going to move out. So he said that he guess' that he will have to try to find somewhere else to go. Unless he moves in with the OW, he has no $ or credit to go anywhere. He does not have anyone to stay with either. I think this is just a threat to make me give in and move. I did not talk to the parents of the daycare. He was typing a letter on the computer yesterday to give to them. I do not believe he will do this either but, I could be wrong.

This kind of relationship talk is not productive as long as he is in a fog and still involved in his affair. It is not productive to your Plan A and will not be productive to you as an individual as the fog babble will only serve to discourage you and confuse you. Please try to stay away from these kinds of conversations. Don't try to gain insight from him when he is still in the fog of the affair. How are your finances? He cannot expose his affair to the parents of his day care. He is not capable of exposure since he is the one in the affair. Your exposure would be done in order to gain the support and assistance of those who are pro marriage and able to help you regain your marriage. This is not his goal at the moment so anything he would write to them is not "exposure".

I know that you are right-there is nothing to be said that has not already been said.


As far as the finances and having the daycare closed....neither one of us will be able to survive, literally. There will not be anything left to pay rent, electric, food, etc. So I suppose that I should prepare to have to move anyway.

Mark 1952
I do not know how I missed you reply. I just now read it and found it to be very helpful!!
My husband says he is going to move out because of the arguing, etc. It seems as though I should stay in Plan A until he does leave? At this point I am sure that there is not much I have done recently to give him a want to come back to me.

T2L,

What I was trying to get across was that arguing with him will not save your marriage. It will only drive him further away from you. The same thing goes for trying to educate him...

Don't discuss the relationship at all. If he attempts to meet OW, you can state your hurt at his showing such a lack of care for you, but don't analyze what's wrong or try to make him suddenly repent...

In Plan A you try to meet his ENs, avoid love busters and have no expectations of anything in return.

That pretty well says it. If you are fighting and arguing, you aren't doing it right, because you shouldn't be discussing or trying to solve relationship issues.

Before you can recover your marriage, you have to save your marriage. And the way to do that is...

Meet his ENs...
Avoid LBs...
Have no expectations...

If you try to fix it before you save it, you will have nothing to save. You might be able to communicate wonderfully with your husband...as you negotiate your divorce settlement. If you want to stay married, make his time with you the best part of his day every day. When he can't live without you and will do anything for you, then you get to try to fix what is broken.

Mark

I do understand what you are saying. Unfortunately, I have been so emotional that I keep starting in. I increased my anti-depressants today and also added a mild anti-anxiety tonight. I am not much of a 'pill' taker so it took me a while to do it.
I am afraid that with the LB it is too late. However, I have to believe that it is not too late as long as he is in this house for a few more days.....