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He said we should just get a divorce and maybe we can reconcile in the future.

Make sure that if you're seperated/divorced, there will be NO "friendship" between the two of you and there will be no reconciliation. Make sure he knows that you will not be a doormat and a backup plan. If there is a divorce, make sure he knows that you will move on.

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tru2luv, please be advised that ******* is a troll.

Let me be dumb for a minute. What is a "troll"?

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BA-that seems like a very selfish and angry thing to say. For my daughters best interest I feel as though I have to be upstanding regardless of how he acts or what he does to me.

Any other 'experienced members' please give your input on this.

I do not feel like fighting fire with fire is going to create a calm environment for me and my daughter.

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T2L:

BA has a point.

Your H is spouting what we call around here "Fogbabble"

If he wants a divorce, let him divorce you.

If he wants to reconcile later, agree with that.

If you think that being best buddies with someone who decides to sleep with the customers Mothers is a good idea, go ahead.

Have a warm and friendly relationship after this guy continues to run YOU thru the ringer, is another good idea.

After all, he's right you know.

And THAT is why it is all babble.

One of the things we TRY to teach around here is to "have a Plan"

Wayward people do not have one. THey make it up as they go along.

They will TELL you ANYTHING to get agreement, avoid exposure, Continue the affair, get more cash from you, secure the family home with you out of it, and custody of the children with you paying support, if they can get it.

They are making it up as they go along, and if you do not learn anything else, or get a PLAN, then what they SAY does make sense. Becasue there is nothing to refute thier babble.

Well, WE RECOMMEND THAT you GET A PLAN.

A plan that destroys the fantasy of the A for your Husband.
A plan that returns your self-respect and dignity
A plan that makes sure that no MATTER WHAT happens, you come out of this with your HEAD HELD HIGH.
A plan that CAN recreate in your husband the reasons that you got married in the first place.

These plans are available here, Are you READY?

When your WH says that "we can get back together if we divorce"

You simply state: "I do not want a divorce, and if you DO Divorce me, I will fight it as long and as hard as I can, and if it goes to the end, I will insure that the court decrees are followed to the letter. Visitation, CS, etc. THERE Will be "NO FRIENDS"

You seem to think that this would be confrontational. To Him? Yes. Cause you are NO LONGER particpating in HIS Destruction of YOUR family.

You don't have to yell or scream it, all you have to do is state it, simply, and clearly, and look him in the eye when you say it.

Will he yell? Sure, because of the "Anything to get what they want" principle noted above. And if it works, he will continue using that until it no longer works. And the above line I asked you to use on him, will stop him completely. He will relize that his old method to get you to do what he wants, no longer works. HE will then come after you with other methods. We can help with those as well.

Also, as an aside, UNLESS you are watching in excess of 5-6 children a day, the home daycare model with this lying cheating WH running it, isn't viable. IT won't be long before WH and OW are having SF in the bedroom while the daycare kids, including your daughter, are in the other room watching TV.

And once the other Parents find out about this sordid story, you will start losing your daycare kids anyway.

The cash being generated currently is being used to finance his affair. Not to watch your daughter. Yea, Some gets thrown to pay the utilities, etc, but he is ASKING YOU to move out and PAY MORE.

LG

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wow LG! I agree with everything you are saying. I cannot disagree on what point. I will have to save this to my favorites and keep referring back to it as I develope and stick to my plan.

You guys are great-I have a sense of empowerment coming back to me now!

I also posted something new...realizing from reading others stories that it will give all a clear view of my entire story.

addictions

Last edited by tru2luv; 12/21/07 03:08 PM.
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what LG said.

T2L,

You say you have read the MB site for awhile and are familiar with it.

Have you ever done a true Plan A?

I was worried about your DD because you say she cannot take the arguing.

Do you know about the lovebank and lovebusters?

How long has the A been going on?

DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT MOVE OUT. That will make it easier for the infidels to carry on their adultery.

What outraged me the most was your WS wanting you to move out and then emailing ow about her moving in?????? Oh my Goodness!!!! And for you to contribute financial and bankroll WS A?

Have you been in contact with OWH and let him know that the affair has continued?

Have you exposed to anyone else?

I know, questions, questions, questions. But if you want to save your marriage, you have to kill the affair. You do this by exposure, a good plan A, no LB's or disrespectful judgements and filling WH's EN's. Have you done these things?

I say if anyone is going to move anywhere it needs to be your WH. I would make HIM move out if he insists on separation, and call the daycare parents and say you are no longer in business. Do you really want your WS to have that daycare when he used it to have an A? As a parent, if your child was in this daycare, would you want your child there?

If you cannot afford all the bills when and if your WS moves out, then find a roomate, female, of course.

Of course, we can speculate all we want, as nothing has happened yet. This post is just MHO.

Don't mean to 2x4 you, just need more info to read your situation better.

Just know that you are WORTHY, and this is not about you.

Oh, and did I say DO NOT MOVE OUT?

God Bless, and welcome to MB.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Last edited by Miss M; 12/21/07 04:47 PM.

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A little OT, but your post title put this in my head all day, I had to go look up the whole quote because it wouldn't come to me in its entirety:

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain. "

A beer to the first person to name the source!

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BA-that seems like a very selfish and angry thing to say.

I was going to respond, but since lousygolfer approved my statements AND he explained my points, I don't think I need to further elaborate my points. I still stick to my points. If he knows that he will be "friends" with you while continue his affair and that you're willing to take him back after he has his fun with his affair, why in the world would he stop his affair? Think about it.

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T2L,

What the LG and others have posted is good advice. Let's make it a bit more simple.....

Do not waste your love on a WS.

Save that for your H.

Or another way of putting it:

Plan A your real H and plan B the WS.

Why? Because doing nice things for the WS is often misconstrued as enabling the A. This doesn't mean you don't do nice things, just limit them to the times that are important for you. Don't show yourself too available or ready to please him when he is being a Ws.

For me, I eventually learned to check out my WS' attitude at the front door or at the beginning of a call. If he was in the WS mode, the convo stopped or he was not allowed in our home. When he acted like my H, then he was allowed to interact with us.

The value of you and your family s/b kept on high. Ws' need to know they can't get H benefits.

Does that help?

L.

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Have you ever done a true Plan A?

I did unfortunately only two weeks. The week of Thanksgiving and the week after. There was a noticeable difference in our interaction with each other-very positive reaction from him toward me. Unfortuanetly, I became fearful because he is talking to the OW at this time and I did not want to fall for the 'smoke and mirrors'. The trust is far from being where it needs to be!

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I was worried about your DD because you say she cannot take the arguing.

Yes, I am responsible-I allowed the fear and hurt get to me and I became argumentative and judgemental of his every move. I realized it is not working for me. I am so glad I joined the forum yesterday. Today, went to the library and got SAA and waiting for HNHN to come in. I am headed in a much better direction thanks to all of you.


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Do you know about the lovebank and lovebusters?

Yes-in my stupidity, old habits, fears whatever you want to call it-I was not adding to the LB and not meeting his EN. I did not realize that you can meet the EN while the A is going on?

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How long has the A been going on?

Started this past Feb and ended with NC around June. She contacted him about two months ago(Oct) and it started again.

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Have you been in contact with OWH and let him know that the affair has continued?

I contacted him tonight to let him know-he was shocked. Funny, she told my husband that he knew they were talking! Liar, Liar.

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I know, questions, questions, questions. But if you want to save your marriage, you have to kill the affair. You do this by exposure, a good plan A, no LB's or disrespectful judgements and filling WH's EN's. Have you done these things?
Now that I have a clear direction of this, I am on my way to succeed!
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If you cannot afford all the bills when and if your WS moves out, then find a roomate, female, of course.
I have been in contact with a coworker who runs the seperated/divorced program at my church. She may know of some people if I need.

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Don't mean to 2x4 you, just need more info to read your situation better.
No offense, just gratitude for the questions so that I can have informed answers!
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Just know that you are WORTHY, and this is not about you.

I do know this but, it is nice to get confirmation of that!

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
This forum is the best Christmas present I could have ever received!!

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You sound a lot better today, tru2luv.

Now you have a PLAN!!!!

Good for you!!!!

You GO girl!!!!!

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Thank you Charlotte 22-I do feel more confident today! thanks for checking in!

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Does that help? L.
Yes, you all have been helpful!

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I understand that I should stay in Plan A if I still want to save my marriage. I am going to stay in Plan A and take this weekend to study it over and over so that I get it! My current concern is while I am focusing on myself and my needs, how can a still get the bills paid while he is hiding money. WH was supposed to give me $ on Wed and never did, then last night and never did. Now I have our rent check to cover, no cash for Christmas present for my nephew and daughter. It is apparent to me that he is spending money on the OW. How can I function and stay in Plan A with this going on?

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Tyk,

It's from Frank Herbert in Dune...

T2L,

Plan A is about changing what you have control over and that is you and you alone. Dr Harley's methods differ from others in that he doesn't try to fix the marriage as first priority. Instead he attempts to reestablish the love that brought you together in the first place.

So what Plan A is about is showing your H what marriage to you can be like if he gets it together. You discover his Emotional Needs and do what he lets you in the way of meeting them. This deposits units into his Love Bank and by doing so, hopefully, shows him that you are willing and able to meet his ENs.

At the same time, you identify Love Busters that you are doing and put them to death. Love Busters are basically Independent Behavior (where you act in some way without taking him or his feelings into account before acting), Angry Outbursts, and Disrespectful Judgments (in which you make assumptions about his intent and judge him unjustly because of those assumptions.) By doing away with Love Busters, you avoid removing love units from his Love Bank, thereby creating a positive inflow, which once the level reaches a certain point, will mean that your H will have feelings of love for you once more.

At the same time you do this, you must respectfully negotiate for the establishment of a boundary of no contact (NC) with the affair partner ever again. But you must also have no expectations of any dramatic changes from him simply because you have made a change. This is what makes Plan A so hard. While you are jumping through hoops to meet his ENs and changing your own behavior to do away with Love Busters, you cannot expect him to do much or anything in the way of meeting your ENs.

One thing that will NOT work is to attempt to educate, coerce or threaten him into ending the affair. Your time with him must be pleasant to him and constant bickering or talking about the affair will not make it pleasant. The more you try to control HIM, the less control you will have over yourself, and the result will be that he will withdraw from you further because he will not like the drama and discomfort he is feeling.

This is the carrot of Plan A.

The stick of Plan A involves exposing the affair to anyone who may have influence over him or the OW and to anyone who can assist you in monitoring for continued contact. This can include OW's husband, other members of her family, his family, trusted friends, a pastor or other trusted church leader etc. It also includes doing what you can in the way of protecting family finances and assets from being frittered away on the affair.

You also need to take care of your daughter as she will be reeling from this as much or more than you are.

In the "My Musings Thread" linked in my sig line are some discussions of Plan A and on about page 4 and five are some links to some other threads as well as articles and the like from this site and a few others. You don't have to read all the ranting and intermediate discussion, but do read the posts about Plan A and the links I suggest.

Be careful that you don't try to save your marriage by fixing it. You have to save it first and once he has stopped the affair, start working on fixing what's broken. It's a long bumpy road, so strap in and hang on.

But you CAN do this. You will be stronger.

Mark

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I am sorry that no one has responded regarding your finances. You need to secure your finances. Remember you have been advised to plan A your H and plan B your WH. I do not have experience with securing finances as I did not need to do that. I can only go by what I remember reading here.

I suggest that you do not pay the rent. Let the WH pay the rent. Do you have any joint accounts with money in them? If you do, I would move any money that I could into an account with only your name on it.

What about charge cards? Is he charging up money that you also are responsible for? Check out the state of any joint charge cards to see what financial mess he is getting you into.

You may need to see an attorney to help you with your finances. Also you can search this site using the term "secure finances" to get more information.

Have you been in contact with OW's BH? Does he know that the affair is back on? What about the parents of the other children in the day care? Do they know? Exposure can be very helpful to you. It will make your WH very angry. But it will also help to burst the fantasy bubble that he has regarding the nature of this "love" for OW. This is a cruel, cowardly, and selfish set of acts. This is not love. There is nothing that he and OW need to "work through". This type of talk is all fog-babble and it is WH talk.


Lake
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Lake53

thank you for your feedback. I did call the OW BH Friday night. Aparently yesterday my WH received a call from the OW and she said that his life might be in danger. She said her husband threatened to kill my WH and himself. She did say that once he calmed down he said he was spouting off out of anger. I believe this to be true. Of course my WH says that I did not think before I did this, I was just trying to hurt him. I told him that I did that to try to save our marriage-of course he does not believe my intentions were that. He said that I have put his life in danger. I know that my WH is just trying to turn this around and blame on me. He is good at that-ecspecially right now. After getting off of this phone call with the OW, he told me that he is definately filing for divorce. He is no longer sitting on the fence. I found it interesting that now that she told my husband she is getting a divorce now he is claiming that he is done with our marriage.

I talked to him on the phone today when I was out. I asked him in the 4 or 5 months when there was NC what needs did I not meet of his. Why did he choose to get sucked back into her world so easily. After much diversion and blah, blah, blah and my persistence on the question he basically said that he never felt safe and secure with me. He never felt that he could lay his life in my hands and I would always do what was in his best interest. I have really been thinking about that and I believe that goes both ways-I do not feel like I have ever been completely safe and secure with him. For different reasons in childhood, we both have issues of abandonement. I realize now that we could have been relying on each other to fill that - is that realistic for a married couple to do? If there is an EN that stems so deep from childhood is it possible to meet that need? If we have both always been fearful of the other leaving then I guess we have kind of set up ourselves for that. Unfortunately, my husband does not seem interested in getting help with his own issues. He started going to a psychologist and as soon as the OW contacted him in late Oct, he stopped going.

The other thing I said to him is did he really think that in 4-5 mos. that we were going to have a great marriage and everything would be okay? He said he thought he would at least have gotten the will to work on our marriage. I told him that he spent almost 2 mos of that time in withdrawal from her and then he was on the internet flirting with other women. He never gave us a real chance. What else am I to do? I am wondering if I should just give up. It seems like he is jumping on a runaway train and doesn't care that it is going to crash.

Thankfully, I just picked up the SAA from the bookstore. I ordered from the library but it didn't come in and now they are closed until wed. It could not have come at a better time because i am so emotional and I am causing arguments between the two of us and pushing him further away. I am going to the health food store on wed to get natural anti-anxiety/anti-depressants that have worked for me in the past. I feel like I cannot control my emotions right now and that is not going to help me stay in plan A.

I did tell him that I was not going to move out. So he said that he guess' that he will have to try to find somewhere else to go. Unless he moves in with the OW, he has no $ or credit to go anywhere. He does not have anyone to stay with either. I think this is just a threat to make me give in and move. I did not talk to the parents of the daycare. He was typing a letter on the computer yesterday to give to them. I do not believe he will do this either but, I could be wrong.

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Lake53

I talked to him on the phone today when I was out. I asked him in the 4 or 5 months when there was NC what needs did I not meet of his. Why did he choose to get sucked back into her world so easily. After much diversion and blah, blah, blah and my persistence on the question he basically said that he never felt safe and secure with me. He never felt that he could lay his life in my hands and I would always do what was in his best interest. I have really been thinking about that and I believe that goes both ways-I do not feel like I have ever been completely safe and secure with him. For different reasons in childhood, we both have issues of abandonement. I realize now that we could have been relying on each other to fill that - is that realistic for a married couple to do? If there is an EN that stems so deep from childhood is it possible to meet that need? If we have both always been fearful of the other leaving then I guess we have kind of set up ourselves for that. Unfortunately, my husband does not seem interested in getting help with his own issues. He started going to a psychologist and as soon as the OW contacted him in late Oct, he stopped going.

The other thing I said to him is did he really think that in 4-5 mos. that we were going to have a great marriage and everything would be okay? He said he thought he would at least have gotten the will to work on our marriage. I told him that he spent almost 2 mos of that time in withdrawal from her and then he was on the internet flirting with other women. He never gave us a real chance. What else am I to do? I am wondering if I should just give up. It seems like he is jumping on a runaway train and doesn't care that it is going to crash.

This kind of relationship talk is not productive as long as he is in a fog and still involved in his affair. It is not productive to your Plan A and will not be productive to you as an individual as the fog babble will only serve to discourage you and confuse you. Please try to stay away from these kinds of conversations. Don't try to gain insight from him when he is still in the fog of the affair. How are your finances? He cannot expose his affair to the parents of his day care. He is not capable of exposure since he is the one in the affair. Your exposure would be done in order to gain the support and assistance of those who are pro marriage and able to help you regain your marriage. This is not his goal at the moment so anything he would write to them is not "exposure".


Lake
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This kind of relationship talk is not productive as long as he is in a fog and still involved in his affair. It is not productive to your Plan A and will not be productive to you as an individual as the fog babble will only serve to discourage you and confuse you. Please try to stay away from these kinds of conversations. Don't try to gain insight from him when he is still in the fog of the affair.


I know that you are right-there is nothing to be said that has not already been said.

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How are your finances? He cannot expose his affair to the parents of his day care. He is not capable of exposure since he is the one in the affair. Your exposure would be done in order to gain the support and assistance of those who are pro marriage and able to help you regain your marriage. This is not his goal at the moment so anything he would write to them is not "exposure".

As far as the finances and having the daycare closed....neither one of us will be able to survive, literally. There will not be anything left to pay rent, electric, food, etc. So I suppose that I should prepare to have to move anyway.

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Mark 1952
I do not know how I missed you reply. I just now read it and found it to be very helpful!!
My husband says he is going to move out because of the arguing, etc. It seems as though I should stay in Plan A until he does leave? At this point I am sure that there is not much I have done recently to give him a want to come back to me.

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