Post deleted by saralynn77

LOVE IT!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So nice to hear good news.
I will drink some wine tonight in your honor :-)

(maybe you can pray the SAME THINGS you prayed toward my OW now!)

Sing with me:

Ding Dong, the witch is gone!!!!!

Post deleted by saralynn77

Mazel Tov....

This is awesome......

Queenie

Are you in PLAN A? Perfect timing for PLAN A, IMO...

Plan A, remember, includes NEGOTIATING NC with her..and you communicating that you want to recover your marriage..

And we are now RENTING my H'S condo..which he purchased as a love nest..but hardly ever stayed in... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Post deleted by saralynn77

Sara:

I doubt very seriously that your WH is going into withdrawal. He will likely maintain contact with her and I'm willing to bet that this is a PLOY of hers.

It's a sick relationship that they have. They MAKEUP to BREAKUP so that they can try to reestablish the ECSTACY..now that the A is out in the light of day.

This is the PERFECT TIME for you to do a FULL FORCE PLAN A in order to recover your marriage.

It's YOUR CHOICE but I think you can be effective with it...

The affair seems to be coming to an end..

BUT IT IS NOT OVER by any means, IMO...

He has plans to see her on the weekends and they will be in daily contact...

Let me explain the standard MO of the OW...

She wants to give the message: "I AM YOUR TRUE LOVE..YOUR SOULMATE..YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY LIVE WITHOUT ME"..and their R is on that immature level..and he WILL YEARN from her..cause she will play this up...YUCK...

In the meantime, though, you are to do YOUR WORK on evidencing what a NORMAL, REAL RELATIONSHIP is like..with his children..in his home...KWIM?

Try to OUTSHINE the CRAZINESS that will be going on in his SECRET LIFE...YUCK...

Hi Saralynn--
I'm so happy to hear those news. That must be a HUGE load off your back. How I would wish that were to happen to the OW my WH is still seeing. As long as that is happening, there is no sign of having our M back to work. Good luck with everything!

Post deleted by saralynn77

I agree completely that this is a golden chance for a grand Plan A, with as much energy as you can muster having a newborn.

I am seeing lots of dinner-with-the-family invitations, and no concern if he declines, invitations to join you & the kids for fun outings, and maybe the occasional naughty TM if you're up to it.

Since the OW won't be meeting his needs as well as before, you can take over them and let him wallow in cake for a while before cutting him off cold turkey in Plan B. This is a very good chance to help him re-attatch to his family.

Not familiar with your story, but if you can get a sitter every now and again and show up and surprise him, even for something simple like lunch at work, think about doing that, too.

Post deleted by saralynn77

Good! Subtly keep him there longer (whenever possible) when he comes over. Of course ask how his day was, and how he is doing, but tell him cute funny things the kids have been up to. Light teasing touch works well with this.

A back/shoulder rub would be good if you can do it kind of playfully. (Should he ask why you are doing that, or anything else he is trying to find a way of objecting to, just laugh and say, "I'm your WIFE, silly!" That response can cover any number of situations. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

Sounds like he is already sneaking nibbles of wifey-cake on the side. Excellent.

And just remember - it's not a competition - you have already won hands down.

Score 1 for the WS side.

Congratulations Sara!

I wish I could give the OW in my life a one way ticket to China. Or a long rope to jump off a short cliff. Either would work fine by me. hee hee

Post deleted by saralynn77

Ditto almost everything I said in my SHOUT OUT about PLAN A..

Your WH is following the standard script..

He doesn't want PLAN A to work and will try to through you off course.

When I did PLAN A, pretty much didn't feel like it was being effective. I believed in MBer's and my need to demonstrate changes to my H. PLAN is all about YOU. YOU doing what you feel that YOU need and want to do in A PLAN to lead towards RECOVERY of your marriage. You can't look to the WAYWARD for any indication of yourself. You have to feel good about what you are doing.

To me, it will be unfortunate if you choose not to continue in PLAN A because I think you have the perfect opportunity and I think deep down your WH knows that. He wants an EXCUSE to continue with his affair without GUILT. He wants you to just give up on him. He want YOU to do the dirty work and to give up on your marriage. TYPICAL, TYPICAL WS stuff..



Same old script..my FWH did the SAME STUFF..

I recommend that you take charge. Don't become involved in such conversations about the OW...

Plus, he's certainly going through some sort of withdrawal tonight..missing her..yearning for her..wanting to justify in his mind traveling miles and miles to see her..YUCK....



I really, really recommend MBer's. That was the answer for US...



When are you thinking that you do PLAN A? PLAN A is done in the MIDST of the affair.



PLAN A is not about REWARDING him for being a JERK. PLAN A is about YOU...not about MAKING HIM do anything..PLAN A is your demonstration of your changes. If you feel like you are losing your love left for him, it is most definitely time for PLAN B. However, at the time when the OW has moved away, it seems a perfect time for more PLAN A.

What are your WH's primary ENs? What made your marriage vulnerable to this affair? What are the ENs that the OW is meeting?

Post deleted by saralynn77

You have been in this mess for 7 months, and with a baby, so of course you are exhausted. But how long have you actually been in Plan A? It looks like several months, right?

What I would recommend is to gather your physical and emotional resources and carry out the bestest Plan A you can for the next 2-3 weeks. While doing this, line up your ducks to go into a dark dark dark Plan B.

He really is dead on script. Feel free to read my story, and if you do you will see where, after the A was over, my H confessed to me that one of the reasons he had been so mean was trying to drive me away. If I had been mean back, he would have felt justified in what he was doing. He also wanted me to stop being nice because it bothered him.

Plan A to a WS is like water on a witch. They feel themselves melting inside, and scream bloody murder to make it stop.

What you are doing IS working, and though it probably is about time for Plan B, I would hate to see you waste this lovely opportunity while the OW is gone.

What is LMBT? I have never heard of that.

I know its frustrating I get verbally abused constantly and work myself to death to get some appreciation and still nothing.
Also it seems kindness and sppport he doesn't care about.

Love Must Be Tough
by Dr. James Dobson

Part of PLAN A is disallowing your WH to do this to you. I recommend NOT engaging with him when he does this. There's no use. Like you already know, he's FIGHTING you with words. There's NO positive outcome that can come from these sorts of interactions.

If you WANT to recover your marriage, you are going to have to ACCEPT his MOODINESS. I have a loved one like that (not my H) and have learned to insulate myself from his stuff..to take care of myself.. but I STILL LOVE HIM and learned that's the way he is. This is your OPPORTUNITY to walk away from it. Did you know that he was like this when you married him or did you discover it? 'Cause if he was like this, remember that he was likeable enough for you to fall IN LOVE with him. We have to take THE BITTER with THE SWEET.

Regarding the issue of ENs, what I was asking was, WHAT ENs did HE seek out that she met initially. At THIS POINT, yes, she is meeting his primary ENs. PLAN A is about you demonstrating your CHANGES and your CAPACITY to meet his needs. Given that he is involved in the affair, he is trying he best to close himself off to you. Sadly, she is now the main depositer into his LOVE BANK.

Also, PLAN A is about your GIVER and nothing about your TAKER. It can't be done for long or you LOVE for HIM will begin to diminish. That may be happening with you so PLAN B seems imminent.

Have you read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR and HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS? You might want to read over these books again to get a better understanding. Me, I would read SAA DAILY during my H's affair...



I can't say this enough. IT DOES NOT MATTER ABOUT HIM. He is a WAYWARD. He is deceitful. He is a liar. He is an alien. He is nuts. PLAN A IS ALL ABOUT YOU AND YOUR OWN SINCERITY. You should be sincerely making changes that YOU want to make in order to be the best person, wife, mother..that YOU CANor WANT TO BE. The changes that I made in myself over the past few years, starting with D-DAY are a permanent part of me.



ACTUALLY, this is GOOD. You want to meet any EN that you can during PLAN A. I'm not sure you understand PLAN A and recognize it's value for marital recovery.

THE MORE EFFECTIVE PLAN A is, sometimes THE MORE GROUCHY he will be. HE WANTS THIS TO FAIL. He wants JUSTIFICATION for continuation of his affair.



I think you are incorrect about this. You reward his adultery by NOT doing PLAN A.

SaraLynn-

When does the OW move away? How far away is she going?
Why is she moving away? (Is she maybe trying to force your WH to choose between the her vs you and your children?)

I am not a Plan A expert in practice yet. However, my "anon" sponsor gave me this visual - Plan A cannot be done in a healthy way without boundaries. Otherwise you become a useless doormat that he cannot have any respect or feelings for.

Any time he begins to speak, imagine an instant two-inch thick plexiglass wall between you. Everything he throws at you cannot reach you. And the mess is all on his side - he gets to clean it up - unless you take the wall down and receive it, (which is terribly unhealthy to do). Then YOU get to clean it up and put your own broken heart back together. And know this - you do it to yourself when you take the boundary down. Your choice. He doesn't get to choose that you have a boundary that his rage, anger, hurt, or otherwise is about him and him only. You will not receive it. He can't make you receive it.

Cloud and Townsend wrote a book called Boundaries - excellent read, btw. Plan A can be free of lovebusters and you still don't have to endure his tirades. This is how it works:

WH - BLAH! Blah blah blah blah blah! You Blah blah blah beep blah!

BS in Plan A with Boundaries: I'm sorry - I need to go do the laundry - scrub the toilet - fix the baby some food - go shopping. (Then LEAVE THE ROOM!!!)

While the temptation is great to say - "Are you showing Mrs. Wayward Partner-in-crime this side of you?", he wouldn't get it. And Plan A can only be excellent if you don't try to educate or have him "get it".

Any time he tries to engage you in an argument translate to Blah Blah Blah - because it's not about you, can't be understood by you, and doesn't have the meaning you think it does.

Post deleted by saralynn77

BTW - I tried this just once and my husband no longer followed me to continue his rants.

He followed me to another room to continue and I turned around and gently reached a hand out to his shoulder, looked him straight in the eye and said,
Then I left the room that he had followed me to, picked up my car keys and wallet, deliberately left my cell phone on the table, and went for a drive. I came back a couple of hours later, and went to work on what I'd been working on before I left, and he left me alone. then later, came and apologized.

So are you saying that your marital success, if you are to reconcile, will only be about your WH changing into being the person that YOU want him to be?



It is hard for me to understand your point of view. Because if you don't like him, why do you want to reconcile with him? It seems that the OW does. That's what I had to come to terms with..accepting my H for who he is..the GREAT and the bad..and I was with him for over 25 years when he began his affair..and I have changed tremendously and so has he...and we couldn't be happier..I'm just so sad that I wasted all those years, being disrespectful and self-righteous, trying to change him into being who I wanted him to be...so I guess I'm coming from my perspective...which does seem alot different than yours...

It was Steve Harley that called me on this, basically saying, "Do you want to be RIGHT or do you want to be MARRIED?"



We have been married for 31 years. As indicated above, both of us have definitely changed but I had to be the LEADER and be willing to change first..because by the time I realized what was happening, he was in the MIDST of an ADDICTION to a woman who did SEEM to ACCEPT him..it was a show, a farce on her part but it sure FELT GREAT to HIM...

I just don't understand why you want to reconcile. You don't seem to LIKE your husband.

I really suggest you think about the part that YOU played in your marital problems because that is all that YOU can control.

Your situation with the OW sounds typical.

The OW in my situation played those SAME GAMES and my H did eventually move in with her, trying to make it work with his "true love"..that's what actually ENDED the affair because he got to see the way she REALLY is/was...

Post deleted by saralynn77

SaraLynn - I can relate to a lot of what you're saying, I have often pondered the same things you're asking yourself or that mimi is asking you.. did you read Sadmo's recent post about self-recovery? That is also good food for thought.

In my case, I knew something was wrong with H when he moved out for a seperation, but really could not believe it was an A. So I did basically do a PlanA during that time, but didn't know that he was having an A which definitely would make it harder. ALL that to say, now, looking back, I don't regret any of the work I put into plan A because of the good it did for me, but also just knowing that I don't have any regrets (about that season anyway). I don't look back now and wonder IF I would have just tried or done such and such, could it have made a difference. Even if marital recovery isn't possible, or I decide it's not worth it, I do not regret the Plan A efforts I made. (hope this is coming across the way I intend, just my two cents to think about..)

It's hard with kids involved too, I'm sure that's part of what makes it more complicated (I know it does for me).

I will pray that God just gives you a real sense of what to do next, and the strength to do whatever that is.

Have you read the HARLEY books. This is not their viewpoint. Ask yourself, do you want to stick with YOUR VIEWPOINT or do you want to try an approach that has been effective in helping couples RECOVER their marriages. The Marriagebuilders' POV is that couples who are IN LOVE with each other DEPOSIT LOVE UNITS by meeting each others' PRIMARY EMOTIONAL NEEDS. It is not about UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE. It is about DOING what makes each other HAPPY.



Yep..maybe he's NOT an mature adult. We all have our faults. Surely,it is clear that any WS has chosen a POOR..and ..IMMORAL solution to the marital problems. On another thread, we are talking about how it's the EASY way out.



Do you see what you are saying here? You only like your H when he is the way that you want him to be. That is what we MBer's call a DISRESPECTFUL JUDGEMENT. Who's gonna always be in a good mood? There's parts about you that he may not like and he may not like this about himself. But HE IS WHO HE IS...



You have no idea how he is with the OW. He may be MOODY with her and it's OK with her.



OUCH..not very LOVING, Sara..he probably held his head down cause this really hurt and it makes him feel UNLOVED by you...

One of the most important reasons that I feel that my H ended his affair was because during PLAN A, I made it VERY CLEAR that I loved him. The OW tried to convince him that she was the only one that loved him and I stepped up to the plate and told him that wasn't so...

HE WANTS TO FEEL LOVED BY YOU..THE MAN WHO HE IS WANTS TO BE LOVED BY YOU..not the man who you want him to be..the MAN WHO HE IS..with all of his warts and wrinkles..



I say this cause I really care about your marriage..and I really hate affairs and divorce...not to hurt you. I don't want to hurt you, Sarah.

I encourage you to work on YOURSELF..your HARDENED HEART..you can only change YOURSELF..and NOT HIM...

Work on your hardened heart to give your marriage a chance for recovery.

CORRECTION:

It wasn't important what I TOLD my H..what was important was what I EVIDENCED and DEMONSTRATED...

I EVIDENCED and DEMONSTRATED my LOVE for him....

He loved it that I FOUGHT for him...that's why I like to use that WAR ANALOGY...

Saralynn,
Your WH sounds so much like mine I'm wondering if they were separated at birth.

He is doing the above ^^ because he is immature. He hasn't learned to take responsibility for both his actions or the consequences of his bad choices. And then he probably blames you for what could easily be a normal response to an aggravated attack. Not stating that any LB is good, but boundaries ARE!

You sound like you are a well-adjusted person who is aware of any shortcomings you may have and would appreciate and learn from a discussion on things that are fixable within your marriage...a willingness on your part to make it better. That is great! But it's like beating your head against the wall when your partner won't do the same.

I do feel that in many situations, Plan A is like an appeasement of the affair.
It seems to say - disrespect me all you want, I'll still be here pining for you. But of course I am at a totally different stage and in my case Plan B is working very well for me and my children.

I know what you mean when you say that you have done things right by your marriage and you still feel that he is the one that needs to do most of the changing. I have layed awake at night thinking that very same thing over and over. Of course my WH has a temper and that alone would have solved 70% of our issues if he'd have chilled out.

As one poster has in her tagline "you can't fix stupid"! lol, I laugh just reading that again.

So what do you think your next course of action will be?

Post deleted by saralynn77

An interminable Plan A rewards adultery.

A short but good Plan A, followed by a decisive, pitch-black Plan B destroys adultery.

~and leaves the marriage poised in the best possible position to recover~

Post deleted by saralynn77

My vote is for Divorce Reality. His whines about manipulation should not stop you from doing what is right for you. He will do anything he can, and say anything he can, to maintain some sort of control over you.

Of course the finaly decision is up to you, but I can only recommend a full-on Plan B. Not because I was brainwashed, but because I have seen it work powerfully again and again and again.

SaraLynn,
Back in Sept you said you were going to Plan B no matter what...and do the darkest Plan B ever seen.

I'm curious as to what changed?

Your WH's words about you using the kids is NOT true. Many Waywards will say anything to emotionally wreck the BS and turn things around on them. HE put you in the position to do whatever is necessary to protect yourself and your children.

Also, just how grouchy is he? I have firsthand experience with a "grouch" myself...my WH used to go off on tirades that I'd have to listen to forever, follow me to different rooms, yada yada. It was so exhausting.
Now that he is gone and I'm in plan B, my LIFE is so much more peaceful. Sure I still have sad days, but nothing beats the serenity of my home.

He can still see both of your kids at his place. Do you have an intermediary?

~Free

I'm all in for MBers' because of the MIRACLE of OUR MARITAL RECOVERY. I TRIED to follow THE PLANS as CLOSELY as possible..as outlined by the HARLEYs...Steve Harley specifically directed me AGAINST using the 180 plan..

Agreed. For my H, this came after PLAN B.



I agree with NEAK. Full-blown, not semi Plan A, briefly, and THEN PLAN B.



I think you may have misunderstood, especially SAA. The PLANS are for marriages in the midst of adultery.

I can't explain it any better than the Harleys to you.

It SEEMS to me that you don't understand the approach and I don't know how to help you. I wish I could. I think you have the PERFECT scenario for this approach to be helpful in leading you to marital recovery.

I wish you well.