Only checking..................

The line forms here -

Well Believer, I think mine is about as dark as it can get. Other than having my friend call WH about his heart attack, I have not seen or even heard much about him in almost 9 months. He left the state as you know, and my DD doesn't even talk to him much.

Why are you asking???

There's my girl.......

I'm asking because most affairs don't end with Plan A. Usually it takes Plan B, and I'm having a hard time finding ANYONE in a good Plan B here.

You are one of the exceptions.

I'm putting a VOTE in for QUEENIE...

Great thread, Believer! I was actually going to start one on Monday to call out ALL of the posters on here who HAVE done plan B or are IN a TRUE Plan B. Whether it saved their Ms or just their sanity, there are many here right now who I feel need a push to really understand the purpose...and the POWER of it.

I have read SO many posters, both who have recovered their M and who have divorced, who say they wish they had gone into Plan B sooner.

Dr. Harley has just recently reduced the time limit for women in Plan A to 6-8 weeks and men 2-3 months AT THE MOST!! He realizes many people are staying in Plan A for FAR too long, which will cause long-term physical and emotional issues...his quote...

People who wish they had gone into Plan B sooner who have RECOVERED their M, have said that the PAIN and ABUSE they continued to endure from their WSs (because of staying in Plan A too long) has made their recovery MORE difficult.

I would love to see stories from everyone here who has done a good plan B...or even those who WISH they had...how they felt at first, what it did for them emotionally, etc...

I firmly believe in the VALUE and POWER of PLAN B..but I also greatly understand the FEAR of it..

I am one who attributes our marital recovery to PLAN B..but PLAN B did not result in ME feeling better..I felt it was my ONLY OPTION for marital recovery..that's the ONLY REASON why I did it...

So I truly understand folks' reluctance about doing it...

Me!! Me B!! Me B!!

And I am SO glad I didn't wait! Melody was right on the money!! I was tempted to wait until after the holidays, or just a little longer in Plan A because Gray had started communicating again.

I know what would have happened, though. Just more cake-eating and him taking advantage of me.

So we have Chai, Queenie and Charlotte. Good job, ladies. There should be a lot more.

La-La -

You are exactly right. Plan A needs to be good and short. I waited much too long to go to Plan B, and did a half-assed one at first. But FINALLY I did a good one. What a blessing.

Well remember guys, I did two or three BBAAAADDD Plan B's before I did this one. I don't think it will lead to recovery for me because my WH looked at my first PBL as a "Dear John" letter. He totally didn't get it. He's very hostile, so I believe that he looks at my dark Plan B as really a Plan FU. Even though I have written a few "Jennifer" letters, he continues to be very hostile. I'm just not sure it was the right thing for me, but I don't really know what would have been better.

I guess in the end, it will help me heal. I do feel better when I don't know anything about what he is doing. Some days I think that I will do a little snooping, but realize that it will only bring heartache. From that perspective, it helps with the withdrawl from him.

Will it recover my M? I don't think so. I just hope it will recover me.....

I also nominate Luna to the Dark Side. I think she has done well.

Dang it! i thought I posted to this thread earlier but I don't see it here!

My 2 nominations for AWESOME Plan Bers are CHARLOTTE and IMJUSTJULIE!! They are strict in their no contact and look for CREATIVE WAYS to avoid contact. They are doing awesome!!

Oh yeah, Luna and JustJulie. Good Plan B's.

Still early, but I have a lot of hope for all of the Plan B'ers.

Gosh, this stuff takes sooooooooo much longer than is comfortable.

And SDGuy - One for the MB men.

I LOVE you Mimi!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I am doing a VERY DARK Plan B.... And WH is pulling out all the stops... He didn't DEPOSIT money AGAIN tonight.

But I ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT BREAK MY PLAN....

Me too.

In fact, put me down as one vote for each one mentioned so far as well.

And maybe a few others that haven't been mentioned yet.

Mark

having trouble getting back to sleep; got myself a hefty dose of poison ivy on my forehead and it's giving me a pounding headache. Since I can't talk to my husband, due to that whole Plan B/D thing, I'm posting here. Plan B has helped me to date TWICE in the last three years since Dday#1.

Talk about avoidance. I'm doing great, one month in. Actually, I do SEE PWC once a week, passing by him in my car on the way to work as he drops DS off at the bus stop. This has happened twice in the last two weeks, so next week I'm taking a new route out of the neighborhood to avoid SEEING him. Luckily, I triggered for only a short while last week, and this week, I was just mildly annoyed.

My vote goes in for Chrisner. He's done a stellar Plan B, and even after divorce, has continued it. Heck, I vote his daughter in, too, just because she takes WZ in very small doses, at best, for her own sanity.

Oh, I think my only problem with Plan B is that I get delusional about my husband showing up again someday (because I'm no longer face to face with the reminder that he's been erradicated by PWC), and fantasize that we will still recover. I don't need those thoughts right now, so I only allow them for a second or two before changing the subject in my head. Believer's recent post about the letter she received from her WH has triggered the thought more often. I dunno that I believe my man will ever show up again, and if he did, it would probably be too late. That thought just bugs me to no end. Acceptance of TODAY is really key.

The day after my wife threw me out, I went totaly dark.

I only saw her twice and those times weren't civil.

The first time was in court three months later, then one month after that when I was allowed to get what was left of my property.

It's been over a year since she threw me out and since January since the divorce was final.

I barely remember her face and voice.

The only downside to this is I haven't seen or heard anything from my SS in over a year.

I guess he didn't give a carp either.

Pariah,

Your SS is a kid. He goes where mom goes. He doesn't fully understand this all. DO NOT lump him in with his mother's decisions. I'm a step kid, and my mom cheated on my step dad. My step dad, however, was not a good dad. He seemingly didn't give a [censored] about us kids, so I ASSUMED he didn't care to hear from me.

It's up to YOU to fight for him, not the other way around. Don't put that kind of pressure on a kid. You assume too much.

Now, your xw is a piece of work, and deserves all your disdain, just not the kid.

My WH also took my first PBL as plan FU and never stuck to my conditions i.e intermediary etc..I confess I did a weak PLB at first but now +_ 2 months in a dark plan B purely cos my head and heart are in sync now.

I don't think its affecting WH at all but the good news is that I have truely moved on and am in a much better place emotionally.
WH filed for D in Dec..and is stalling now although he says I'M stalling!!
His held back on giving me money for 2 months now although his paying morgage and other bills.I can survive without his money so I'm just leaving the ball in his court.I really don't know whats going on in his head...any advice.My lawyer understands my decision to let WH make the next move,says its my life.
I don't think WH is having doubts about D more likely worried about money he'll have to give me in settlement.He thinks by not giving me money it will force me to go to my lawyer!!hows that for logic..if he wants the D why doesn't he just get it over with?Believer what do you think?

One point of clarification, and maybe this is the final piece that gets me BLACK.

In Plan B, we don't get to think about, figure out or know ANYTHING about WH. Hope you and I are still trying to figure them out and have to STOP. We think we are moving on, but we are still talking about them and what they are doing.

Would the vets agree?

As Mark just told me, they are NOT our H, only the monsters and we could NEVER figure them out because they live in a place that I personally will NOT go.

So WE HAVE TO STOP TRYING.... AND STOP THINKING ABOUT THEM AT ALL. How do you do this, I have NO CLUE... But you can bet that I am going to be praying for it and learning a strategy to accomplish this.

Queenie I know what you saying.I'm at a place now where even if I hear things about WH.It doesn't affect me in the least cos deep down I have realised my life will be better than his in the long run.I have a really strong feeling about this don't know why.
It makes me sad when I realise that I am moving on and losing my love for him.When the respect goes so does the love.I now know why so many woman in particular don't take WH 's back.

The fact that we are still thinking about them and wondering about what they are doing thinking and why they are doing something is what I mean.

Example #1

Example #2

Example 3#

Queenie,

It's not a switch that you can turn off. YOu will probably always have memories of your husband, but taking any time to make assumptions about the man he is today is time wasted. You are trying to compare apples to apples. It's really like comparing apples to refuse.

Don't attach the attributes of who you knew him to be to who he is today. Let him be who he is TODAY. Not who you hope he'll be in the future or who he was in the past. Accept today, this minute.

Who is he right now, in terms of your relationship (or lack thereof) without attaching any of your own notions of who he SHOULD be?

Is this a joke?

You (Mel & Believer) just made my day! Buh-bye!!

SL, I'm sure that I am still struggling with this, because I'm crying, but like everything else, I will get through it.

We all do because we are WARRIORS and GODDESSES.

I know this is pretty much a rheorical question, nonetheless, I guess that part that has me stunted so to speak is, move on, live a life without the man I knew as my H, expect him to not come back etc. But remember that you are still married so don't date, don't allow someone else to fill up any EN's etc. Wouldn't this be a part of moving on and learning to love yourself by allowing someone else in who you can share life with? I feel like I am caught in a rock and a hard place and don't know what to do.

Accept keep praying, show up today and wait for G-d.

Queenie I get what you are saying..but understand I'm not phased by WH anymore.The only reason I ask for advise is because my D is pending and I'm a bit worried that WH will say that I coped without his money so I won't need as much as my lawyer is asking for in the settlement.Its impossible to not think about WH but now I don't fret over him and let him get to me.

Kids just got back from WH.DS18 said that WH noticed a while ago my tyres needed replacing and that I must get a quote and he will pay for them!!What the f@#k!!Won't give me money but will pay for tyres...the rainy season has started so I suppose its not save on the roads.Feel like telling him to stick it!!

In PLAN B? Don't REACT to him. HE does not EXIST.

Mimi do I take him up on his offer to buy me tyres..I can't really afford them.My pride is saying not to.I don't want him to have control over me if you know what I mean.I am also a very stubborn person!
I will use my intermediary in this so I will not break plan B.Last time WH broke plan B it was also around 2 months!!

Hope:

No. Do not take him up on his request. That meets an EN of his which is what you DO NOT want to do during PLAN B. He is able to tell himself that he is still being your HUBBIE..YUCK...

Figure out a way TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF as if he does not exist.

Work out a settlement with your lawyer that requires him to pay you enough money to take care of such necessities as your tires.

Why do you measure 'moving on' solely by whether you have a significant other in your life? If this were true, than so many WS's on this site would not have returned to their BS's and mended their marriages. They would have 'moved on', right? NOPE!

To me, I will 'move on' when the grieving is done. I could have man after man going in and out of my life, and still not move on. I won't deny that having some form of opposite sex companionship would be nice, but it wouldn't be the CURE (plus, I'm not divorced and my head is still all mixed up).

Personally, I would get the tyres through your intermediary. You'll feel much safer with new tyres.

SL, you ask a very good question. One I don't have an answer for.

I am off to field for OS last coaching game and the return of gear. I will be back later on.

A good question....

This was a game my H played to FUEL his affair. Anytime he felt the least bit SHAMED, he would offer to buy me something and then JUSTIFY the affair as being OK..he was still "taking care of us"..YUCK..

The WS needs to SUFFER during PLAN B..meeting ANY emotional need, playing the HUBBY, FUELS the AFFAIR, IMO...

Plus, HOPE is not supposed to be getting information about him through her daughter if she is truly being DARK...

This is part of his gameplaying and I recommend for her not to feed into it...

She needs to find a means of buying the tires herself and not conveying a perception that she remains DEPENDENT on him...

DARK is DARK during PLAN B..with no IFS, ANDS or BUTS...

I think that is the MOST EFFECTIVE PLAN B..although extremely HARD, if not, almost impossible, to accomplish..

However, I think it should be the GOAL of PLAN Bers...

I got to the point of having to tell myself that I would not respond to my H, REGARDLESS of what he might say or do...

They are looking from RELIEF from the pain of PLAN B..and the PAIN is exactly what you are wanting the WS to experience...

From my understanding, my H began to LONG for some contact with me and he came to really believe that was not possible...while he was living in his H*ll HOLE.

Hey everyone

I've been DARK on my WH since July 2007--no contact from me at all. I hear very little about him except bits and pieces (nothing significant) through my atty. It's been great for my personal healing.

But to honest I don't consider my actions Plan B anymore because I am moving to divorce. I choose not have any contact WH because I don't want to be a part of drama of A anymore. And since we have no children, thee's no reason for WH and I have contact. Anything we need to settle out can be done through the attorneys/courts.

Personally I think it's harder for MBers who have minor children to do a dark Plan B--I really admire those who do it.

Smartie

I clearly remember that inspite of being in total shock.... once WS chose to move out...

...even though I could not, at the time, IMAGINE myself going N/C with the man with whom I had spent over 20 yrs of my life and the father of my boys....

....and I am not sure EXACTLY what it was... my survival instinct?.... my profound sense of responsibility towards myself and towards others (read: my boys) to PROTECT myself from WS's destructive behaviour?....my NEED to stand up for my core values and beliefs....directly linked to my personal IDENTITY? ..... (because as we all know....we need to be able to look at ourselves in the mirror every day!)....

...but inspite of not knowing HOW I would be able to do it, I KNEW, that for me, given who I was and what I stood for, it was Plan B.... or end up in the psychiatric ward of my local hospital!

....and at that point, the choice became easy to MAKE... although I knew it was going to be HARD to execute!....which is why it's important to have a very strong motivation going into Plan B....

... Plan B will be hard to sustain if it's intended to be used only as a bluff.... Plan B is serious business, it's a clear NO to WS's behaviour.... with a clear YES to committment to family and a committment to N/C with WS..... unless WS makes it SAFE to do otherwise (read: WS's committment to N/C with OP and back to family and M)

...otherwise, I believe, your Plan B's worst enemy and breaking N/C with WS is NOT WS.... it's the BS, believe it or not!

...because a WS WILL attempt to break and test Plan B, if cake-eating is their ultimate goal, but don't have a chance, IF BS is committed to not REWARDING bad behaviour unless WS committs to N/C with OP...and BS MUST BE PREPARED to move forward...to plan D, not as a threat, but as a natural progression from Plan B and its unmet conditions.... for reasons of PERSONAL RECOVERY... in order to be open to finding someone willing to meet plan B conditions, if not WS, someone else indeed...and FACE the LOSSES of dreams linked to WS!

...affairs will cause damage.... and unfortunately, since we can't change the past, the only thing accessible to a BS...is 'damage control'.... by MINIMIZING IT through Plan B and LEARNING from it.... so that a future R, with WS or someone new, will be better PROTECTED from the possibility of it happening again.... it's a hard lesson to learn, but a lesson nonetheless!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I was reluctant to put myself in because my plan B has never been as dark as some, but it is Jennifer-approved.

SD:

Help us learn.

Why did Jennifer approve a less than DARK Plan B for you?

How has your PLAN B been different?

I don't think wondering about what a WS is up to is necessarily a bad thing. I mean, we wonder about what people we know are up to don't we?

And as far as talking about a WS, well, he or she will inevitably come up in conversation, especially if you have kids.

What I think is telling is the reaction to seeing or talking about a WS.

I knew that I was getting better some months ago when I found a birthday present that OW had sent to me through WS. I didn't trigger at all.

I've noticed that when I see a car that looks like it could be ours, I don't trigger.

And when the car broke down after class the other day and I started making phone calls, it never even crossed my mind about calling him for help. I didn't think about him at all!

I think that when you can talk about your WS in a normal manner without becoming emotionally upset, then you know you are healing.

My biggest test will be on Tuesday when we go to court. I am planning on not even acknowledging that Mr. Gray even exists. I know he will be doing his level best to get to me and he will be a total jerk. But it's not going to work.

schoolbus posted on my thread about body language and I am mulling that one over but I think I may end up going with my first thought, just to ignore him. And her. I know she'll be there. I AM in Plan B, so this is the correct thing, yes?

The thing I won't like is when he has to get his stuff. I intend to have it all in one room so he does not have to wander around MY house. Especially in MY bedroom. It's mine now and that doesn't bother me at all. There's no snoring, no drooling, and no snot rags all over the place on the other side of the bed. Just a possum family underneath the house that wakes me up
sometimes.

Sorry I got off track a bit in this post. It happens!!

Ahhhh.....no snoring. Plan B is nice in the dark sometimes, isn't it??? I actually have uninterrupted sleep now. In MY bed....

Thanks Mimi for your advice about the tyres.
I might ask my intermediary to ask WH to pay me my monthly maintenance that we agreed to so that I can buy the tyres..he hasn't given me money for 2 months now....cos I'm stallng the D!!

Its become a psychological battle now!!
How do you suggest I let WH know not to pass messages via my kids?Why is this a bad thing?

Please tell me how long it takes to get there!

I have been in plan B for 3.5 months, going to plan D because of the kids and finances. I think of plan B as mourning the death of my H. Still trigger often, expect him to be in the house, kneejerk reaction to call him when something good or bad happens... etc. Very similar to losing a loved one.

It is very hard to plan B with kids, name comes up often. Kids like to tell me what they did etc. Had to beg him (thru IM) not to come to piano recital. How do people deal with big kid events?

I recently wrote a long letter to my inlaws explaining what i was doing and why. When I looked at my false recovery I realized how much I put up with. I was traumatized repeatedly...I put up with serious emotional abuse. Plan B is for me to recover from this trauma.

I've been in a dark plan B for 3 and 1/2 years!!!!!!!!!

too long for any good to come of it.

Why do people spell tires with a "y"???

KAG,

To be honest, I'm not sure you ever get there totally. D leaves scars that last forever, especially in long term M's like mine. If you have children, I don't think we ever get over it.

But, it does lessen with time. I've been in Plan B 9 months, and it still hurts. I just find that after some time goes by, you don't want to hurt anymore so the less you see or hear about them the better you are. You actually WANT to avoid them or any info about them.

Takes time my dear....

Yeah, I hear you....long term marriage with kids.

I was thinking here I am again in a excrutiatingly painful situation wondering what happened? It took a long time to get over the birth of my son with special needs, you mourn the 'normal child' you thought you were getting. Of course now I love him to bits. Now I mourn the loss of a husband. I suppose I will get to the other side of it someday.

It sure would be easier if my husband didn't show up in the form of WH all too often.(picking/dropping kids)

I guess I have to believe what Mother Theresa said "G=d doesn't give you more than you can handle" Well G-d must think I am really strong. I certainly don't feel that way.

Kag,

I actually had the same thought because all this was so much more than I could handle.

I think that maybe G-d does give us more than WE can handle, but as long as we are walking with G-d and seeking him out, then it's not too much for us, b/c G-d is there helping us.

(((KAG))))

I hope your WH at least helps you with your special needs child. Being a single parent is hard enough with those that don't need that type of care.

Is A still ongoing??? Are you pretty dark in your PlanB??

lexy,in S.A. we follow the U.K way of spelling!Hence tyres..LOL
Kag,has your WH got his papers yet?
Hang in there

Thanks Queenie,

I need to remember to ask for help more often. I always think *I* am the one in control

As far as I know A is still going(trying not to snoop or ask questions or drive by etc.) His apt is a mile from me

Pretty dark, he was served papers at work by a sheriff. So now the attorney is another layer between him and me. Actually the D will make darkness easier. When everything is laid out finances, visitation there is less reason to communicate.

I am surprised at how emotional I am after serving him, thought it would be more of a relief like when were seperated. But now if feels like we are REALLY done. Oh good, that is him calling the boys now on their cell, even that sound triggers me.

G-d please give me strength.

Yesterday and he continues on like nothing happened. Now I KNOW he would react that way but it still seems incredulous to me. No reaction at ending a 20 year marriage????? Who is this person?

Well I can beat that - try no biggie to a 34 year marriage. Makes you wonder who you married doesn't it?

Mine told me he threw up all day the next day after he was served. Is it true? I have no idea. Maybe it was the thought of all the money sprouting wings and flying away because he had to hire and attorney?

Who knows? Maybe he really did because he thought he had it made in the shade and I pulled the rug out from under him.

Well, I'm going to have to return the kudos I received here because I have to break Plan B because of the judges orders. There's just no way around it. I can't very well walk around like Tommy on the soundtrack album cover: shades, earplugs and a pinball gag! LOL!!

I didn't forget about this, I just had to think about it for a while.

It's not so much that Jennifer approved a dark plan, it's that the way we set it up was not pitch black. My kids were aged 7 and 3 at the time, with 50% custody and plenty of exchanges, and Jennifer basically told me from the outset that it wasn't realistic to think I could do it with no communication at all, so we established email as the way to communicate. Jennifer mentioned an intermediary as something I might think about, but that was only if the content of the emails became venomous.

There were a few venomous emails at the beginning, and so I used an intermediary for a period of several months, but the venom was short-lived, and my intermediary was forwarding me whole emails, and eventually we just dropped it. The SCQ (my WW) is very businesslike with the emails now. And the whole plan B, really.

At the beginning, there were a few signs that Plan B bothered the SCQ, but most of them were because it was inconvenient and seemed silly. Now she respects it. If it bothers her anymore, I certainly can't tell. If any part of her misses me, it's been compartmentalized and buried along with her morals and sense of right and wrong.

Jennifer is the one who has constantly reminded me that from time to time I should tell the SCQ that this (divorce) isn't what I want, that it doesn't have to be this way, we can put the past behind us and rebuild our family, etc. Right now she wants me to be sending a card with those sentiments about once a month. Doesn't seem like plan B, but at the same time she got on me a little bit once because I sent a gift I made along with the card, and sending the gift was meeting an emotional need. Cards, yes. Gifts, no.

It's why I hesitate to give advice to anyone.

Plan B is about staying sane while you wait for the affair to die. At least for me. I've talked with Jennifer about how passive and stubborn the SCQ is and how she is almost certainly the follower in this affair dynamic, and Jennifer has told me that "if the SCQ comes back, it won't be because of anything you do." I agree with this. It will be because the OM has either massively screwed up (minor screwups haven't affected him yet) or he dumps the SCQ.

I hope that made some sense.

Plan B is working.

I don't quite understand that but someone very, very wise can attest.

What I DO know is that DARK is HARD! But, best for me and maybe even my marriage. And once the difficulty passes, it is GOOD STUFF.

It's working. On guard!

And WHY NOT??? LOL...OK, sans the PINBALL GAG...SHADES and IPOD will do..and don't forget the short shorts...

LOL, mimi!! And why not? I always have the dang mp3 player with me everywhere I go anyway! Not that HE would know that! LOL!!

(And yes, most definitely short-shorts!!!! ;))