I thought you folks might get a "kick" out of this...I sure did. This was written after confronting him in a coffee shop with my wife. Actually, it was my 12 yo stepdaughter who discovered them while running errands for me on her bike. I was getting out of the shower and she came screaming hysterically up the stairs shouting "daddy, daddy...mommy was in the coffee shop holding hands with Leatherface. I walked down, got in his face and said a few choice words...didn't hit him though. An hour or so later, he sent me this email. Thought I'd share for your reading pleasure so you can see what kind of creep I'm dealing with:



So what is your truth? Kind of got me confused brother. We are brothers, you know, you thinking you control the natural occurrence of life, me wowed by it over and over again, in peaceful tranquility of what it brings, knowing my actions dictate this in some arcane
way. You standing tall and acting unlike who and what you are. You should have took a swing at me ***, then I would have turned the other cheek for you to take another. You have every right to do this, so
again you jump back into the mode of what you say you are not. You are grounded and lifted in your confusion with the element of self and denial. You have no control over what the laws of nature transcend. I am sitting by a pool of water fed by a tranquil fountain, you are lost in the throws of your perch. I am surrounded by the beauty of life and all it's wonders, as your pool is one filled with pity and self riotousness, laden in heavy shoes and sinking below the surface. I am not your problem ***, to see it clearly look in a mirror. However if you would like me to assume this position, this place you see me then you have choices, the fruits of all we expect in life. Lets see you can, how did you put it so eloquently, " [censored] me up"; in the annals of mankind lets retrace the ways...........you could use your hands as I suggested, or you could use a rock, a stick, a bat, a vehicle, a gun, there's always the hiring of a hit man to do it for you, you could track me down, wait in hiding, or better yet you could use your words to spread discontent, you could find out were i live and mess up my yard or my house, you could vandalize my vehicles, you could find out were I work and harass me, you could use myspace and [censored] with my friends or with my kids, or do you cast another spell upon me with your magick? yes *** the list goes on...............But understand this, if you choose this way I have the right to react. You do not know me so think this through before you choose this way, retribution is a two way street, consider this wisely, I will..........count on it.
In these actions you have nothing to gain though, you are to smart not to realize this. A man is faced with choices, what is to be gained has to be thought of with what you have to lose. We are simple beings when we get down to it ***, animals fight for there turf and there mates, yet we are not animals, we are refined human beings. I do not want what you have, can you understand this? I already have in ways what you never had, what you will never allow yourself to have. This is not my choice or my fault. You chose to confront me, what did you gain? Do you feel better now? Do you think your actions scared me off? Should I be afraid of what happens next? I surely am not ***. Your actions are typical and petty in the grand scheme of things. While in the seminary did you not learn the natural occurrence of this life and all it's teachings in the name of your religion? Have you turned your back on these laws we live by? You have the right to confuse me with your state, I will not and cannot disallow you this process. It is your right, your choice to act in the way you choose.What choices can you afford me ***? Do I have the right to do the same. Are we not standing in the same place? Do you allow me my experience of natural occurrence? Do I not stand in the place of deciding my path and all it's occurrences? Are you able to strip my rights at your whim, in the name of some divine principle that is all your own? Do you get lonely on this perch of indignant power over others? Will your kids be better for what they see in your inability to be equitable in the judgment you choose here?

Did you ever stop to consider I could have been the best thing to happen to your situation. I am not ignorant to how things work ***, I am not your problem, but may have been able to show another the right way to go in this place, this is how our lives unfold. We learn from the actions of others. The way this occurs is not up to debate, it is simply the way things work. You mention karma as if it is something to fear and find reproach in, and also something you can ordain on another, but you know better than this, you are wiser than this brother. You are better read than this, better learned than this. Your actions will never dictate my reactions other than the compassion I feel within for the idiotic and disappointing choices I have chosen to make in my life. You do not know me, I will let this episode be a reminder of man's inability to conquer fear. The things I fear make your threats seem trivial and miniscule in comparison. I am no better than any of my brothers or sisters in this place. The friendship two people share is out of your hands, beyond your control, by design ***. You overreacted and breathed life into something of your manufacture, all in the vain of everything you portray yourself to be. You are a better person than this, a better friend than this, a better father than this, a better man than this. I am only in this place to experience life, and only in the way I choose to allow this, it is my right to feel this way. None of my actions have been in a way to hurt, threaten or take away anything you have or call your own. I do not need you to confront me with my failures, I had not forgotten them by any means. Take a deep breath and in this find the peace you need to be yourself, all of yours will be better for this.

Later dude.......

Now, this little literary gem came after the situation was explained to him:




I am going to relax a rule of mine and respond to you, but I am going to be brutally honest ***, you may want to delete now...........

Lets talk about kids first. The [censored] your daughter is dealing with is you own fault, she is a victim of your circumstance and your doing. If I would have been afforded to meet your daughter on her terms of life, lets just say things would be different in her eye and mind. You have placed something in her with your actions you need to regret. We were not holding hands today ***, which does not mean we have not or will not. So now this beautiful daughter and girl is filled with your confusion and paranoia. I would have liked to meet
her under other circumstances, but this has been robbed of
her, not me. I know how and when to overcome these things. You need to get a grip and place the welfare of your children above ALL. I would NEVER let WW put me in a place with her not to place this as SACRED (and she would not either) filled with rules of engagement. My rules ***, not yours or anyone else's, and please give a brother some ground here ***, to know me is to see how my children are sacred to me, you [censored] with them and I am going to react like a sane but mad man. They are
my blood and my blood is them, all I have and all I hold above
everything. I have been divorced from my sons mother for many years,I have raised him alone since he was 6. He is my world and my life, he has NEVER heard me say a bad word about his mother or any man she has chosen to be with, but what I have taught him is to make his own assessments on his own terms, in ways that took me years to allow this evolution of thought for him to form, in his own way and with my support, this has not been easy ***, but he is a great young man now. You did it, you can undue it just as well. Start soon, she is at a tender age and matters of the heart dominate her allegiances in this time. She is still a child though everything you say and do you have
to consider and make relevant. She is doing things in a way you have skewed and distorted by what she sees and hears, human nature ***, she is loyal to a fault, a redeeming quality and blessing to hold sacred and true.

Advice is like [censored], every one has one, don't confuse them as each is important. The best advice concerning matters of the heart I received I did not listen to, harsh reality ***. So let me be an [censored] if you choose. You need meds, call me, I will get them for you if I can no questions asked. If I can help
you in this time, let me know, I will do what I can as one who has been in your shoes and afraid to ask. Don't hesitate ***, no bull, okay? But do not tell me what I can and cannot do with WW. And while on the subject, let her do what ever the [censored] she chooses or you are done for. I am not out to get you or take her from you. If I was, what the [censored] would I have? You have to understand though she may be past returning to what
you expect. So now go ahead and think to yourself...........who the [censored] do you think I am to say these things to you..........I am someone who knows. You tell her she can't and you may as well chain her in the basement ***, she will not stand for it. Can you do this? Have you thought about life without her in it as you expect? If not you need to consider it. It is a possibility ***, everything is 50/50, don't waste all your time on just one scenario of events, it will allow you to look at things completely instead of one sided, [censored] happens, you know this, most importantly you will treat her in a more compassionate way. So you ready to tell me to [censored] off? It is the hard facts of life ***, she has wandered from the stable, you left the gate open. Don't blame her or she will not return. Don't blame yourself either, it is human nature to stray, validate it however you choose ***, but consider it. It happens in 58% of ALL marriages, think you are immune and it bites you in the [censored]. Now to me, as you can see, WW and I are friends in the most natural of ways. Am I to not be compelled by this occurrence? I am only human ***, can you deny us this? Yes you can, your choice. Don't make her sneak around to find herself, embrace her ability to live and breathe and explore
what she wants, she is your soulmate ***, does this not fit the
bill of what you meant when you told me this? Are you afraid of losing her? You should be. Not my fault ***, try not to place blame it will screw things up. I am in no position to expect you to listen to me ***, you think I am after a piece of [censored] or something, but trust me this is the farthest thing from my mind or intentions, but I can't make you any promises ***, I am only human too, just as you.
Enough already, I am taxed.......Your turn to share..........be real with.

Leatherface

OK So please tell me you are making this up. You gotta be kidding me? Is this guy on some type of medication?

Good grief, he's completely nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No joke indeed! I've got a doozie on my hands, wouldn't you say?

You sure have. I couldn't understand half of what he was saying, the other half seems to say that he is entitled to your WW. Excuse me???????? He seems to be saying that he'll "get you" for standing up for your marriage. Oh, and it all seems to be your fault. :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes: :RollieEyes:

I'm just going to have to again.

Oh yes...his sense of "entitlement" has been astounding! Don't you love the "turn the other cheek" phrase, followed directly by the contradictory threat? This guys portrays himself as some mystical eastern Buddhist guru and has my WW BRAINWASHED! Yet he's a coke-head and spends his evenings sitting in the sportsbar drinking beer. He is indeed a sick ****edit****. He even posted pics of my son on his myspace page. I'd really, really, really like to take this SOB down!

My mind is boggling.

BTW I'm the FWW and my mind is STILL boggling.

It sounded like something a crackhead would write. It sounded like a whole bunch of insane ramblings actually.

Edited:

Geez, you should have taken a swing at the guy while you had the chance. lol.

Consider using his threat above as a means to file a Restraining Order against him, naming you and your daughter as the parties to be protected.

In response, he may file for a protection order versus you as well...but, so what, it's not like you want to be around the guy anyway.

Considering the circumstances...most judges will grant it to you. Often OM's don't even respond or protest such orders because they don't want to get up on the witness stand in public and be exposed for what they are.

If WW has fantasies of leaving you and taking the kid...a restraining order puts a wrench in those plans and it will help you in any custody battle as well.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - What a piece of work.

[edited to add: make a copy of the pics of your son on his myspace page as futher evidence of his "threat" to your family]

You know, I've considered that very thing, though didn't know it was enough to constitute a threat. Here are some other potential legal issues I'm dealing with from another thread....


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=153638&Number=2146193#Post2146193

Sounds like the kinda talk Charles Manson used to use (and still uses, no doubt) to enchant and manipulate his followers, Bruh-thuhhhh.

Charlotte

That is pretty scary and I would suggest he is either he is either brain damaged or mentally ill. There is something very messed up and sick about his thinking. i agree with MrW about the restraining order. So sorry you have to deal with the presence of such a twisted, evil mind.

Here's a couple of things I've analyzed about this guy. He's divorced and has been so for years. I believe somewhere along the way, someone royally ****edit**** him over and he's got some sorta vendetta. He has obviously has zero regard for the state of marriage in general, hence the sense of entitlement. I've been looking for an email he sent my wife, basically telling her about his experiences, his years and thousands of dollars of therapy and how I should just "let her go". He also told her how sorry he felt for her and how she could do so much better. I think there has been times she's tried to break contact, has felt a little creeped out, but he seems able to appear out of nowhere and is pursuing her RELENTLESSLY! I know she makes the choices, but this sick ****edit**** certainly isn't making it any easier....

Well, if I was your WW, I'd be running a MILE in the opposite direction.

away,

Have you had a background check run on him?

Being that old (55) and still messing with drugs, I'll bet he has an arrest record.

Might help with custody.......

My heart goes out to you. Having to deal with this sort of ???? (lost for words) (cannot describe) leaves me breathless. Yikes!!!
Have you notified the air force that one of their aliens has escaped from area 51? Or are you planning to expose this to the National Enquirer that UFO's do exist and you have tangible proof?

The question I pose is what is happening with your wife that she is attracted in anyway to this type of individual?
Has she lead a very sheltered life and has not had any exposure or training on how to identify someone who is mentally unstable?
Does she have to rely on those around her for any level of discernment?
How did this individual make contact with her?
Is this individual attending a local church? If so you would be doing a service to notify the pastor.

Does this individual have a history of violence. Be very careful as he does not sound like he is stable and I would be concerned that he could act out in a dangerous manner?

Or you could place a call to his home planet and see if they can come and pick him up? But seriously has he spent any time in a mental institution?

I think you have been given some very, very good advice about getting a restraining order on this dude for you and your child. This guy is creepy. Please protect yourself and your family.

But on the otherhand I am hoping you will fess up and tell us that you are putting us on. I know truth is stranger than fiction but this is bizarre. Please tell me you are making this up. Seriously you gotta be pulling our legs.

And I can't think for the life of me why she doesn't!!!! I know about fog, but this is something...deeper, stranger. It's scary, like Fatal Attraction ****edit****! Our friends have all been creeped out by this character and have tried talking to her, but to no avail. When I say brainwashed, I mean that in the most literal sense. It's like this guy has hypnotized her or has her under some spell. That sounds silly I guess, and we all feel that in such a situation, but the power and sway he seems to hold is unnerving. How do I fight this? I've tried being the good guy, Plan A'd it to the best of my ability. I guess I just wait for enough rope for him to hang himself....but at what cost? Even if we split, I can't see anything but DANGER here. I think he follows her around and she's even eluded to that, but it hasn't seemed to matter yet....

No joke man! I only wish I were pulling legs here. I don't want him around my kids under any circumstances. My SD, who is 12 knows enough. Sunday my wife was at a friend's watching their and our kids and he just happened to "show up", like he always does. My girl called me and said "dad you need to pick me up, Leatherface is here". I told her I couldn't, that I'd end up in jail. She said okay, I'll walk home (only 6 blocks or so). He followed her on his bike and tried talking to her, saying I'm sorry if I made you uncomfortable. To which she replied "yeah, and you'll be sorry when my dad slaps a restraining order on your ****edit****"! HAHA...that's my girl!!

I did a background check and didn't find anything. I don't think he's violent...he's had that opportunity, but you never know do you? He's just pulling out all the stops to wreck my family. He even referred to himself as "Sledgehammer" in a text he sent her and used the Peter Gabriel song. And still she insists they're "just friends". His emails to her are all wrapped in the guise of "empowering" her to change her life. She's changing it alright, diving to the bottom of the gutter. Yet EVERYONE sees it but her and him. He's insidious:

-adjective
1. intended to entrap or beguile: an insidious plan.
2. stealthily treacherous or deceitful: an insidious enemy.
3. operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way but actually with grave effect: an insidious disease.

Agree! I didn't realize this was an older guy. That affirms for me that he probably is brain damaged from excessive dope use from the loser 60's. Some of these old loser hippies are real messed up and it sounds like this guy just never recovered.

I need to be honest here and admit that I'm not really all that concerned about saving the marriage at this point. I'm thinking about stabilizing the situation, getting rid of this ****edit**** from my family, and maintaining basic safety for those I love (including WW). Someone suggested in my other thread that I should leave, get custody of my son, and abandon my SD. There's no way I can do that! Even thinking about leaving, Plan B, whatever, seems to leave an open door to let this sicko wrap his tentacles even tighter than they already are. I feel like I'm in a no-win situation. I'm sooooo ready to go, but what the hell do I leave behind? She's in no position to go. She doesn't really have anywhere and she's not capable of supporting herself. And for what it's worth, I don't think she wants to...she's the classic cake-eater, fence-walker. My life is truly ****edit****~

hmmmm, my male coworkers say that word. What does it mean??

****edit****

I got a reply for this bonehead OM.

Dear Crackhead,

Your dribble bores me, however please send more, I don't think one sheet is going to cut it when I take my next trip to the bathroom. But I do want you to know that I take extra consideration making sure I flush, and flush well.

Sincerely,
John "Ba-wooosh" Doe

With babble like that, is OM from LA by chance?

Who is it that said on one thread, you can't buy this stuff. Nope, you are the lucky one to read it. This one is out there for sure.

Go with the restraining order for you and SD. I have not read your other threads, but I am concerned about his interest in your SD. And your SD's radar seems to be up about him. There are pedophiles around who look for vulnerable women with daughters or sons. Crack and coke can tend to make people feel like they are invincible.

Sorry, but I don't think this guy is an example of the sixties and his act has no real relationship to "hippies". Comparing him to an old "hippie" is sort of like comparing a homosexual to a pedophile.

I may have made a typo in the other thread. He's only 50. Doesn't seem like the hippie type really. Just thinks he's really smart and wise. But he's being shown up by someone 15 years his junior. I've thought alot about the restraining order, but don't know if I have sufficient grounds yet. Does anyone know what public entity usually handles this? Is a person who has one served in any capacity?

Nope, from Florida.

How you get a restraining order depends on where you live. In my state, California, you just go to the court, fill out a paper giving details of why the person is a threat and then you see the judge. You can check with your court.

I think you should do a thorough background check and see if he has mental issues, drug arrests, etc. Then I would try to get the restraining order to keep him away from step daughter and your son. A 50 year old man should NOT be following her and talking to her.

He reminds me of a neighbor I knew who was a schizophrenic, using eloquent words strung together that added up to nonsense.

That guy needs spell check...although it would be somewhat of a waste when he obviously lacks coherence check, grammar check, logic check, intelligence check, jerk check, and if-what-I-am-doing-wasn't-so-evil-I'd-be-boring-as-heck check.

Someone needs to ring his bell.

you said on this thread or another thread that your WW left your 12 year old SD alone with several younger children overnight and went out and used drugs--coke with this guy.

If you had known of this at the time that it had happened and called this situation in to child protection (the hot line), your WW would have likely have been determined to have put the children into a situation of immediate risk of harm.

Twelve is old enough to watch children for a few hours, but I am not certain that it is old enough to watch children overnight. If it could be proven that she was using coke, she would most likely find herself being required to go to rehab and find herself having to pee in a cup to get custody returned. It is the combination of drug use and leaving the children unsupervised overnight that could cause her big problems. Again, I am not certain how a twelve year old would be viewed in that situation, but if the 12 year old, when interviewed, said things like, I don't have a phone number where my mom is, I don't know when she is returning, I don't like being here like this, I told her I did not want to watch the kids, or I did not know she was even gone--If it was any of those scenarios, it would not look good for your WW.

I've never posted to you before. My name here is Schoolbus. One part of my real life jobs is linguistic analyses of written samples. I absolutely could not resist doing this one just for the fun of it, because your other man is an idiot. I love idiots. He is a liar, who is in the relationship with your wife because he wants what he can get from her. His plan is clearly stated, and he attempts to cover it - print out for her what I show her in the email below. She will initially try to deny it, but his words are there, plain as day. His conversation with you is also crystal clear. There is NO intent on his part for a future with her. He is a user (in more ways than one). Watch and learn what he has to say. His words in black, my analysis in red.



So what is your truth? Kind of got me confused brother. The use of the concept of alternate truths is very common in those who are preparing to lie or attempt to confuse others. The idea that there is more than one truth is a tactic used to disrupt the position of those who usually have what society tends to believe have the moral high ground - and so the person who is arguing from the low ground will attempt this tactic saying "there is more than one truth". Also, the opening volley in an email or letter such as this, with the idea that the writer is the "confused person" is a common tactic for deception. It is meant to place the writer in what is deceptively an underdog position, when they are NOT feeling that way at all, and are NOT confused at all. It is a deception used when the writer feels a position of power.


We are brothers, you know, you thinking you control the natural occurrence of life, me wowed by it over and over again, in peaceful tranquility of what it brings, knowing my actions dictate this in some arcane way. The idea that he attempts to bring you two together as "brothers" is laughable. This tactic is often used to attempt to gain a human stance and gain ground with the opponent, saying to the other, "Look, we are both humans in all of this, see me as a human and start from that standpoint." His use of the terms "peaceful tranquility" and "natural occurrence of life" are purposeful in that they are meant to move your mind into the thoughts that his affair with your wife is something that is normal and natural, and that there is nothing wrong there, that these are events of nature that occur, that he has walked into just as naturally as he walks a path along a riverside.

You standing tall and acting unlike who and what you are. This statement is quite interesting to me. He has some depth of thought right here that I would very much like to explore with him. It is likely what is attracting your wife about him, and you would be interested to know this about him. I need to explain this about him, so that you will understand her attraction, and likely their conversations. This statement explains his basic philosophy of life and of human behavior. What he is saying is that when you confronted him, you stood and behaved relatively calmly, and betrayed what he thought you actually wanted to do, which was to act wild and tear him apart. He believes people are NOT basically peaceful, that they have to work to get there - HE WORKS TO GET THERE, so he believes others do, too. His life focus likely has a great deal of talk and focus on "peaceful pursuits", and your ideas regarding the hippie movement are probably not too far off. I would be willing to bet he looks into Eastern religions, and has dabbled in many offbeat religious pursuits and readings as well, in his searching for the "truth" as he sees it. His concepts for right and wrong are likely based in relativism. This goes a long way toward explaining his distaste for your position on his interference with your marriage, your judgement of his immorality in terms of the affair, and your judgement of your wife's affair behavior, as well as your religious beliefs. He is searching for a religious belief that settles him in with his personal observations of man's animalistic nature (his OWN) and what he sees as a peaceful natural world (one he WANTS inside himself).


You should have took a swing at me ***, then I would have turned the other cheek for you to take another. He needs a chance to SEE if he would have been able to prove his peaceful nature to himself, and to WW. Somehow, he needs to prove this to himself...........Only.......he betrays himself in this very email.

You have every right to do this, so again you jump back into the mode of what you say you are not.
Darn!!!!!! You didn't rise to the challenge he made and SMACK HIM!!!! What is wrong with you???? See, the true nature of this man comes out, right here, where I usually expect it, around paragraph 3.

You are grounded and lifted in your confusion with the element of self and denial. You have no control over what the laws of nature transcend. I am sitting by a pool of water fed by a tranquil fountain, you are lost in the throws of your perch. I am surrounded by the beauty of life and all it's wonders, as your pool is one filled with pity and self riotousness, laden in heavy shoes and sinking below the surface.
I would say to you, change the pronouns in this paragraph - reverse them. See then who is in control of himself.............

He is attempting here to bait you. He desires very much for you to attack HIM. Why? Because he wants to fight you, which is his NATURE. Only, right now, he's in this "peace, man" mode, and can't do it. Don't rise to the bait. He will go nuts, and love-bust with your wife. Count on it.

I am not your problem ***, to see it clearly look in a mirror. He is right about the idea that he is not your problem. HE IS HIS OWN PROBLEM. You are yours. If you want to save your marriage, understand that you can focus on one person in your marriage - yourself. Believe me, this man will screw up on his own.


However if you would like me to assume this position, this place you see me then you have choices, the fruits of all we expect in life. Lets see you can, how did you put it so eloquently, " [censored] me up"; in the annals of mankind lets retrace the ways...........you could use your hands as I suggested, or you could use a rock, a stick, a bat, a vehicle, a gun, there's always the hiring of a hit man to do it for you, you could track me down, wait in hiding, or better yet you could use your words to spread discontent, you could find out were i live and mess up my yard or my house, you could vandalize my vehicles, you could find out were I work and harass me, you could use myspace and [censored] with my friends or with my kids, or do you cast another spell upon me with your magick? yes *** the list goes on...............But understand this, if you choose this way I have the right to react. You do not know me so think this through before you choose this way, retribution is a two way street, consider this wisely, I will..........count on it.
In these actions you have nothing to gain though, you are to smart not to realize this.
You ask if this is a threat? Yes, plain and simple. Although couched in the reverse terms of "how should you attack me", this is actually his attempt to tell you that he WANTS you to engage him in a physical attack of some kind, so that he can come back at you. He then gives you a list of how he has ALREADY planned to get you back. What I find interesting is the last sentence here, "you are smart NOT to realize this"....what's with the "not"???? that negates the sentence. See, he gets so caught up in his own flowery language he undoes what he says. Not so smart sometimes.


A man is faced with choices, what is to be gained has to be thought of with what you have to lose. We are simple beings when we get down to it ***, animals fight for there turf and there mates, yet we are not animals, we are refined human beings. Like I said, he likens himself to an animal. Here, he says we are simple beings in the basic sense. Then he tries to back off of that and wake HIMSELF up to the fact that we are supposed to be REFINED creatures. He isn't so refined. He fights himself, his own depravities.

I do not want what you have, can you understand this? If this is true, then, why would he ever promise anything to your wife????? This is where he exposes his lies to your wife, clearly stating he DOES NOT WANT HER. Ooops.

I already have in ways what you never had, what you will never allow yourself to have. Now, he brags about what he has taken from her. This is the ugly side of this man, that your wife needs to understand. He views her as something he has conquered, that he "has what you have" and that you "never had" before. Your wife, to him, IS NOTHING BUT SOME PIECE OF PROPERTY, AND MEANS NOTHING MORE. HE WILL TREAT HER LIKE TRASH ONCE SHE DOES ANYTHING HE DOES NOT LIKE, OR QUESTIONS ANYTHING HE DOES.


This is not my choice or my fault. I would suggest that he believes that there has been nothing that has been his faulth in his life. His belief system does not place blame, as there is not a true "right" or "wrong", as all things are the result of a natural occurrence, because we are, after all, natural creatures. One of the many "truths", and we will be able to see that other people have their truth as well. The only problem will come when your truth is not his truth. Watch the next sentence...

You chose to confront me wait....what happened to YOUR truth...because, aren't you entitled to your truth, and he's entitled to his???? , what did you gain?

Do you feel better now? Do you think your actions scared me off? Should I be afraid of what happens next? I surely am not ***.

I will assume that the three *** means he used your name here. When the use of the name comes in, this is equivalent of standing up and shaking a finger in the face of the other person. He is now angry, and a little fear is showing. So, he stands up and shows that he does have some fear of you. It came in the form of the "I'm not afraid of YOU" rant.

Your actions are typical and petty in the grand scheme of things. While in the seminary did you not learn the natural occurrence of this life and all it's teachings in the name of your religion?
Gee, this very "open-minded" person doesn't like your religion. Strange, but does he tell the woman he is having an affair with that he doesn't like hers, either? Believe me, it will get to her after awhile. People begin to take umbrage around the holidays when their Christ is berated.

Have you turned your back on these laws we live by?
He's back to the natural laws thing. He wants you to believe that the affair is "natural".

You have the right to confuse me with your state, I will not and cannot disallow you this process. Poor confused b@ss98798d.

It is your right, your choice to act in the way you choose.What choices can you afford me ***? Do I have the right to do the same. Are we not standing in the same place?

Do you allow me my experience of natural occurrence? Do I not stand in the place of deciding my path and all it's occurrences? Here is where he betrays his own beliefs. At first, he explains that nature leads us on our path. Now, he says that he chooses his natural path. Wonder which it is.


Are you able to strip my rights at your whim, in the name of some divine principle that is all your own? He obviously does not understand "divine principles" not being one's "own". By definition, "divine" would not be one's "own" principles. But I digress.

Do you get lonely on this perch of indignant power over others? I would point out that the indignant one here has been the writer of the email. The tone of this letter has been quite indignant and angry, with quite a dash of fear inserted. This line is just a poke at you because of a sense of being judged, and a recognition of your position of the moral high ground.

Will your kids be better for what they see in your inability to be equitable in the judgment you choose here? This statement is revealing of this man's fear of being judged. He does not like the idea of people thinking badly about his behavior. Also, there is a sense of your powerful influence over the children involved in this situation. This position of influence with the children bothers him, because he likely recognizes that the kids know exactly what right and wrong are, and also recognize his line of bull.

Did you ever stop to consider I could have been the best thing to happen to your situation. An interesting perspective, here. He may be telling you that his presence may be putting you into a position of higher awareness in your marriage. True enough. But it does not alleviate him of his role in the affair, or from being a general idiot and jerk.

I am not ignorant to how things work ***, I am not your problem, but may have been able to show another the right way to go in this place, this is how our lives unfold. We learn from the actions of others. The way this occurs is not up to debate, it is simply the way things work.
Wow. What a way to try to say something without actually saying it. He could be related to another poster here who shall remain nameless. Anyway, he's basically saying he knows he has done the wrong thing, but will not ever admit it. He just blames nature, and "whatever".

You mention karma as if it is something to fear and find reproach in, and also something you can ordain on another, but you know better than this, you are wiser than this brother. You are better read than this, better learned than this. Here is where he shows that he understands a little bit about Eastern religions. True, you can't push karma onto another person. Can't hope for it, either. But you can certainly advise another person that karma exists, and remind them that their actions do result in karma visiting them, and to be sure their actions are directed in a way that they would like to have karma visit them. Perhaps he needs a new book.

Your actions will never dictate my reactions other than the compassion I feel within for the idiotic and disappointing choices I have chosen to make in my life. Gee. He agrees with me. Even used the root word "idiot". Thanks.

You do not know me, I will let this episode be a reminder of man's inability to conquer fear. He doesn't even recognize this - but he is afraid of you. And of the outcome of this mess he made. But inside, he KNOWS where this is headed, and he knows what he's done will not end up in the "win" column for him.


The things I fear make your threats seem trivial and miniscule in comparison. I am willing to bet this is true. One of the things this man fears is total loss of control. You would be best served to stay away from him physically.

I am no better than any of my brothers or sisters in this place. The friendship two people share is out of your hands, beyond your control, by design ***.
He is trying to say that what your wife and he share is ONLY A FRIENDSHIP. I wonder what your wife would say about this?????

You overreacted and breathed life into something of your manufacture, all in the vain of everything you portray yourself to be. He says that your reaction to what has happened so far is pushing the two of them closer together. This is a veiled threat to back off - so, it means that it is causing problems between the two of them. Expose the affair more widely.


You are a better person than this, a better friend than this, a better father than this, a better man than this.

I am only in this place to experience life, and only in the way I choose to allow this, it is my right to feel this way. Direct translation of this: I am only in this affair for what I can get out of it. I am along for the ride in any relationship. I am not up for a committed relationship. I don't want to put anything INTO a relationship, not more than I can get out of it, anyway. When I get bored, I'm out. When it becomes more trouble than the sex is worth, I'm out. When it isn't "fun" anymore, I'm out. When anything more interesting, or "whatever" comes along, I'm out. If my feelings change because it's Tuesday, I'm out, at least for Tuesday.


None of my actions have been in a way to hurt, threaten or take away anything you have or call your own. I really am not wanting to take your wife. I just want to sleep with her.

I do not need you to confront me with my failures, I had not forgotten them by any means. Don't tell me about things I do wrong. I don't believe in right and wrong. Well, actually I probably do, but I don't want to hear about it. I kind of want to try out these new religions, or at least give them a trial run. I want to kind of be a "peace, dude" kind of guy right now, because it works for picking up chicks and getting me some good pot. Also, I don't have to work really hard at anything, and I don't have to explain my bad behavior so much. This way, I can attribute my bad choices to alternative truths, my alternative religion, and not really have to deal with guilt and baggage. So don't go talking to me about bad stuff. It's a downer, dude.


Take a deep breath and in this find the peace you need to be yourself, all of yours will be better for this. When I'm done with her, I will kick her to the curb. She will be back, asking to come to the family. You need to be open to forgiving her, because she really doesn't have anywhere else to go, and you know it. After all, you're a Christian, and isn't that your gig?

Later dude....... Later, dude.

LOL!!!! PERFECT, SB. Oh, I hope he posts your reply on the refrigerator for his wife to see.

I would imagine that leaving a 12 year old in charge of several children overnight constitutes neglect and could be reported. Who were these other children.

AWIW, you have several messes on your hands.

Oh, yeah, be sure that 12 year old knows how to reach you. If this happens again, call and report this. In many states, you are technically criminally liable if you know abuse or neglect is taking place and you fail to report it.

Wow....lots to respond to here! First off, Schoolbus, your analysis is priceless!!!! I'm DEFINITELY going to show this to my wife.

Yes, my wife left three children in the custody of my 12 yo SD, returning home at 7:00 a.m. At five a.m., SD called me to inform me that WW wasn’t home yet so I had her call the other children’s father, who came immediately. I was in another state at the time visiting family. I considered filing a report with family services, but was asked not to by my friend, the father, who didn’t want to be involved at that level. Part of me regrets not doing that but I guess at the time I needed to rely on his alliance…he’s also my wife’s employer. Also, since I was out of state, I didn’t want the kids taken into custody of a public entity until I returned. Still, this incident is on the record and I guess at a certain point, my friend might have to testify if this comes up in court. Knowing his character, I believe he’ll tell the truth, even if he doesn’t want to.

You don’t know how much I’d like to clean this guy’s clock. I have about four or five friends lined up chomping at the bit to do so as well. I’ve even been working to diffuse their animosity toward him, figuring it might cause more trouble for me in the long run. I am, however, purchasing a firearm and taking steps to obtain a concealed weapons permit….you never know, do you? I think his animosity toward me is as plain as the (rather large) nose on his face. She hasn’t seen it yet, even in the demonstration of these emails and his drunken friend getting in my face. I’ve thus far handled all such situations calmly and coolly, proving I’m the better man. It hasn’t been easy! Yes, much of his persona is wrapped in the guise of being “peaceful”. She once told me in the midst of one of my tirades “he’s a peaceful man”. I think he’d like to be, but he just doesn’t have it in him. I don’t know what most folks here think about astrology, but he is an Ares…god of war. I think he likes the fight, likes the challenge this pursuit has brought and is relishing in it. I think he’s more motivated by that than any strong attraction to my wife. It’s now become a game for him and he’s obviously not giving up that easy. I’ve considered that a normal man would say “woah, this isn’t worth it”. If he truly cared about my wife, he’d consider the trouble he’s causing her. I don’t put much stock in astrology but I know he does, as does my wife. I am a Leo. I’ve learned that he had a troubled relationship with his father, who was also a Leo. We are both fire signs and that puts at odds with each other. I’ve tried to point this out to her, in an attempt to “speak her language”. She still doesn’t get it. I think she’s relishing the position of having two men struggle so much over her. She has an astrological calendar on the wall and one day early on in this was this little nugget—“Pay attention to red flags again when it comes to a new romance or friendship. Sometimes you see only the things you want to see and ignore the warning signs”. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Here’s another facet to this. He’s all about “freedom” and choice. He portrays me as trying to incarcerate and control her. He’s really pushed that to her….”see, he’s trying to control you”. His manipulation is amazing! In reality, it seems the reverse, as if he's trying to control her, even trying to control me. That's why he wants to pick a fight, wants me to attack! Someone mentioned a Manson mentality and I don’t think that’s too far from the truth! Gawd, what a mess! She really stumbled on a dangerous individual and I NEED to get him out of our lives, regardless if our marriage is ever saved!!!!

You don't know how hard you hit the nail on the head with this.



Exactly. His words in the email point that out to you. My analysis confirms it. You read it, he said it. You feel it. The only thing blocking the break-up is that your WW does not see this.

Your aim now is to get her to see it.



I wonder, if you would not be a candidate for an extremely fast Plan A, followed by a sudden and very dark Plan B. What a surprise it might be for your wife when you hit her with every bit of loving you have for, say a week or two, and then shut the door and go completely dark to her.

You do not engage her at all...."giving up", as it were, so that you are not controlling a single thing in her life. Then, she would have no choice but to see who the real manipulator is.

He would not be able to meet her needs - because he has absolutely no interest in doing so. He is depending on YOU to meet them, and he just gets her to meet HIS.

When she finds herself without you, and there IS NO CAKE TO EAT, watch what happens.

He will be gone. That interest of his, in the fight, the drama, the "win", will be over. And of course, her sadness will be

a bummer, dude.

Like, it isn't peaceful, man, to cry all the time.

And his line of bull will not get her over you.


SB

Great analysis, SB! I always chuckle when I hear someone say "is that your truth" because it is so silly. It is a self refuting statement but they have not figured that out yet. They have confused TRUTH with PERSPECTIVE and it also means that logic is not their friend. It is unusal to hear someone over 30 who has not figured out how dumb that statement is.

AWW, this is not a bright fella.

This is from an old Jackson Browne song - and maybe supports the old hippie theory:

[I'm printing it here because the last two lines of the song - in bold below - were quoted in Mr. Cosmic's email.]

I'VE BEEN OUT WALKING Lyrics

This song appears on the album For Everyman as "THESE DAYS" with slightly different lyrics".

I've been out walking
I don't do too much talking these days
These days
These days I seem to think a lot
About the things that I forgot to do
And all the times I had the chance to
I stopped my ramblin'
I don't do too much gamblin' these days
These days
These days I seem to think about
How all the changes came about my way
And I wonder if I'll see another highway
And I had a lover
I don't think I'll risk another these days
These days
And if I seem to be afraid
To live the life that I have made in song
Well it's just 'cause I've been losing so long
Well I'll stop my dreamin'
I don't do too much schemin' these days
These days
These days I'll sit on cornerstones
And count the time in quartertones to ten
Please don't confront me with my failures
I had not forgotten them

My theory is that many of those people ruined most of their brain cells dropping ACID and smoking hoochie weed.

Reading this thread is extremely frustrating, w/ Mr. Mellow telling you to be "cool" and just accept the cosmic nature of his taking your W. It's telling the victim to be cool while he is victimizing him. He probably would not be so cool if someone was carrying the TV out of his house. He probably would not be so accepting of his "brother" needing that TV because it was "natural" to want to watch football on Sundays.

He is stealing from you and expecting you to just take it. His "truth" or separate reality seems to be whatever he does is ok, because if it has happened it must be "natural." However, what you do is not ok. [Seems to me that nothing on the planet is more natural than kicking the living **** out of him. - Dont do it though because: 1. It's illegal and you will go the jail; 2. It will be the basis of legal action against you such as a restraining order; 3. It will be used to portray you as an out of control crazy criminal; and 4. There are better ways of dealing with him.

This is not legal advice, but it seems to me that one way to handle it is drag him into court for a restraining order to stay away from you or your kids, then get him on the stand and have him explain the meaning of the email he sent to you. Once the judge gets a load of him, I think good things will start to flow in your direction. You stay in control and just let him twist off. A side benefit is that this will immediately start to cost him money and force him to deal with a reality that is not so easy for him to manipulate.

YES!!!! I found it!! She deleted this and I had to jump through some hoops to recover it, but this email was sent from OM to WW right after I discovered the affair and made several calls to him to confront him (the coward didn't answer). Initially, I was told he was a woman as he has an androgynous name. I saw the # on her cell phone and low and behold, a man answered. I confronter her and she confessed it was a man. She said she didn't want me to worry since I was sick. I could barely walk at that point, only a couple of weeks out of the hospital. I eventually hacked into a hidden email and found a lot. But this one is a gem and has some more psychological insight to this creep. Enjoy~!


Being a man, I can not hide behind the reality of our being able to live in a total state of denial concerning certain matters, for instance let's start with matters of the heart. Well, to put it plainly we have no capacity to deal with most situations that fall in this category. In the area of Love I think you will find us at are most vulnerable place. In my life I have fallen trap for this syndrome and please do not think I am above this for I am a man, so anything is possible. We are weak when we do not get our way with Love. We are also most often completely oblivious to this state of mind until we push it away, of course then we want it back, no matter the cost. The manipulation of children, friends, family; anything or any one is prey to this action of pity plying that you are going through. I stated to ' the husband' a few things in our conversation that obviously fell on deaf ears. Even though I repeated them after a reminder of just how things are. First and for-most is the right to dictate another policy in life. This is an age old problem men have, usually what we want is something we can not have, in the event it is a wife, usually it goes like this; we abandon all nurturing practices and consume ourselves in our own agenda, the wife becoming a spring board for taking care of domestic things why we try and dominate from a point of idiocy.

When we have pushed the Love one and ignored her into independent thinking, then action completely alienated that is when we spring back into action to save the day, the white horse syndrome, the gallant hero who can promise the world to another then regain control. We also choose to blame just about anyone for everything....the family dog is not even safe in this time. The kids will be manipulated dearly, the friends will be inundated with [censored] and bull till they would just as soon jump out of the window and break a leg as hear it one more time. The mothers in laws are the easiest prey, they already have pent up frustration with the child they have never understood. Add in an illness and you assume the roll of Atila the Hun, a self serving [censored] that is heartless and insensitive. We do not realize we have already pushed you beyond the line of decency and past being able to have any respect for change or anything different, you know what you have and nothing is going to change this, it is not possible or you would not be reading this from me. You know sincerely where you are and where you will go if you do not make changes. I have to much respect for you to think you are just out on a whim here. He will stay in denial for years, quite possibly this lifetime and many more to come. What is promised in this time from a man is pure [censored]; I trust you know this already. Drugs or no drugs, (he refers to my medication)he is not capable of any rational act in this place, talk about lies and any other changing of the facts to suit his need, well the sky is the limit here, there is no mountain to high that this state of mind cannot hop over. We are at our best when it is simply Too Late, without a doubt. Trust me on this. Second point made was the act of telling another what to do or not to do. This is the ultimate lion trap for men, we fall into it every single time, even when well marked, we just use example one to create the illusion that this is a God given right, which is simple to do.

In our conversation, him, not you, I reminded *** of these two male rights of passage he was assuming in his concerned husband role of the phone call. The consummate male crap about how he does not understand why you would do something like this, everything is just fine in our open relationship....blah, blah, blah. More denial, more lies said out loud to feel better about all the manipulation done and yet to do....we just do not get it. I promised him just one thing; you call me and tell me what not to do and I will for surely DO IT, you tell her what she cannot to and she will for sure DO IT. After referring to the "My myspace page" website for research into substance and reference, and please excuse my need for honesty ******, I found crap, the typical mythical hype lined with fantasy about substance. I felt sorry for you put bluntly. After reading the blogs I assumed that this was the scholar/nut case syndrome of male idiocy at it's best. The negro college fund motto comes to mind here, a mind is a terrible thing to waste. But what is most needed to point out here is that a kindred soul and sacred spirit, wrapped up in a drop dead gorgeous body with a smile that would brighten a cave to blinding, sexy in ways that would make a blind man see, brain that is gifted to take a dollar and make it a twenty, spend ten, on the family of course, then turn the ten into a hundred common business sense, a drive that would put a spaceship in orbit and kindness that would keep mother and parenthood in perspective for 12 kids yet alone 2 kinda gal. One who could whip a room of hippie wanna be's or Harvard scholars into a frenzy without even trying kinda girl that only will get better in the fermentation of life, NO MATTER WHAT THE OBSTACLE will perceive personality and the ability to run, swim, ride or anything else that takes guts to overcome lady, considerate to the point of flaw.....I could go on, and this is not hype, this is FACT..........this is what *** has wasted *****, the chance to be yours! And MOST of ALL the chance for you to be HIS. He blew it, put illness aside though, it CHANGES NOTHING, glasses on or off, he blew it. In this scenario a man has only one chance........YOU LET HER GO, as hard as this may sound there is no other option.

Trust me I spent thousands of dollars to learn this. I am not ashamed to tell you that in the three years of therapy I went to weekly and to the tune of thousands of well spent dollars I do have the right to think, write and expound upon. And here must tell you I am no different than any other man, I just found it important to go through the rest of my life not blaming other people and other things for my own short comings....my own stupidity, my own choices. I am not above or beyond doing these things again, just as a recovered alcoholic is capable of slipping off the wagon. It would be simple to think you are not capable of these things, just not constructive. It is my right though.Perspective is gained in the temple of ones body and mind, you must worship and gain faith at your own alter ******. I am my maker, I am my best friend or my worse enemy, the choice is mine....ALWAYS. As you can see and feel I am no better than anyone else, my choices make me more of who I wish to be. What I have learned from past mistakes is the consequence of my actions, I do not blame others anymore. It is important to me because I LOVE myself FIRST, I am the center of my circle......I try and LOVE my children SECOND.....who ever needs my Love after this is not number three, they are embodied in the same LOVE ALL RECEIVE...it will be felt in the same vain it is meant........this is not a simple thing to accept, yet alone understand. I lean heavy on the word accept, this is lesson #3, accept your fate. Men are unable to do this in the proper context of life. The adam syndrome I suppose. Embodied in your myspace page is the heart of YOU. Desires, fears, comforts, wants, needs and most of all your love for you and your family. I listened to you bare your past to me, it was a kiss of kindness and if we had not left I would have cried ******, you moved my emotional self in ways I can not say, only feel. The closeness I felt to you was at a peak of something sacred. I would within my power do ANYTHING I COULD to help you this moment, no questions asked. This message is my right to you, my blessing to you. I think you deserve better, does that make me biased? No, I don't think so, it makes me aware. It makes me in tune and touch with the parts of you another has forgotten to recognize Forgot to nurture along. Forgot to acknowledge. Decided to take for granted. The seed of you sits fallow. Yet the soul of you surely soars. The spirit of you is surely fertile and abundant in fruit. Please don't loose track of this while this game is played at you expense. Please acknowledge the point of what unfolds. Another wants to hold you back to stay in the SAME PLACE, were he is most comfortable, it's that simple...........

I don't have any psychological training - maybe others here might be able to help - but I think this guy has serious problems mentally. Is there anyone in your W's family who might be able to help her get away from him? He may be dangerous.

For example, he was only too happy to say that you were not right for her. What would happen if she told him that he wasn't right for her either and that she has found a new love interest? I suspect that he would not be so mellow or cosmic then.

Interesting....I know he's a Jackson Browne fan from the music he puts on his myspace page.

Be warned kiddies - that is what 3 years of therapy will do to you.

Guy can't even post a coherent sentence.

Still waiting for the pros to weigh in but ... does the text of these emails strike anyone else as somewhat manic?

Away - I tried to PM you but it didn't work. PM me and I'll tell you why.

I'm trying but it says I've reached my limit. How do I change this setting?

PM's are disabled here.

You can exchange email addresses via Justuss. **edit**

do you use yahoo messenger? If so or not, my email addy is **edit**.

OK - I sent it.

I dunno. That truckload of unmitigated tripe made me feel depressive!!

I've gotta say it.

If this guy had been the OM in my situation, I don't think I could take it.

I've lashed out at my FWW plenty of times about her pathetic AP. Told her she banged a loser, etc.

I could never let it go if she had slept with a retard. She'd never hear the end of it.

I cant analyze his writing anything like schoolbus can, but I can tell you this.

He deeply believes, and/or wants others to believe, that he is extremely intelligent. Weather he claims to be formerly educated or self taught, he wants others to believe he is a scholar.

That’s what is making his paragraphs seem so incoherent to us. He is trying too hard to seem smart. In his eyes, we might just be to dumb to understand his "enlightened" thoughts.

He is trying to use his "perceived higher intelligence" to intimidate you. Don’t let it, he is dumb as a rock.

An insult to rocks, worldwide!

If I still imbibed as much as I used to, other than the occassional glass of wine, I might be able to translate his rantings (or at least think I was) but sober, sane and rational? I just don't get it. What a weirdo. Scary weirdo. Psycho weirdo. Run-as-fast-as-you-can weirdo.

Away:

Your OM in your M is Whacked.

Great, we got that. Now.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

WHAT STEPS ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE TO RECOVER YOUR M?

I've read a couple of your threads, but very little about what your going to do.

You got a mixed up WW, A step daughter, your Child, and a child with your WW< right? So, what are your plans?

I understand that you want to bash the OM. And those Emails are are as loopy as they come. And what they might be indicating is that your WW needs somebody to listen to her, as well as talk to her.

This guy WILL. Yes, he will boink her until she says "STOP" and then he will be gone, but WHAT are you going to do until then?

MB is about plans. What's yours?

LG

Sounds like "doode" is a candidate for one of those nice, cushioned rooms, a groovy coat that lets you hug the one you love best all day long, and coloring books with crayons as Christmas presents for the rest of his life.

AWWW,

I know a little about personality types from my profession. This guy sounds like a person who "knows just enough to be dangerous."

From his last email as well to her that you just found, I don't think your WW is the first WW is his belt full of notches. He seems to display a heightened sense of inferiority that he tries to make up for in his "higher consciousness" rants...coupled with seducing and then abandoning women.

I am sure your WW thinks, "oooohhhhh, he is sooo wise; when he speaks it is like he is speaking into my soul."

He tells her what she wants to hear, your "cosmic beauty blah blah blah," he also absolves her of her guilt by arguing that morals are "outdated" and "rigid" and we need to all "find our own path."

It almost sounds like he has read the mindset of waywards here on MB and has tailored his message specifically to ensnare another one.

I am no vet, but this dude is going to be tough to fight because anything you say to make your WW see him for what he is will only drive her further away from you and towards him and his "wisdom." Getting physical, or showing any emotion toward him for that matter, I think will be counter-productive as well.

Speaking objectively (which is what I was unable to do in my own situation) it would seem that your WW is truly under a spell (he is sooo unlike you after all, hence the attraction) and while you may worry about her safety, you may have 1 chance or so to speak rationally to her about it, maybe get her family to weigh in, get the restraining order and do whatever it takes to stop meeting her needs like Schoolbus said and let him fall on his face trying, at which point, unable to do so, he dumps her. Then you decide if you want her back. After all like he says, you can't physically tie her down.

In her infatuation with his "super-powerful wisdom and insight" I can't see how logic and reason, especially from you, will have any effect except to drive her further away.

Is he the only surviving member of the Heaven's Gate Cult?

:crosseyedcrazy: WTF?! That doesn't even make sense!!

AWWW,

Wow. I guess this guy really is nuts. And the religion stuff I though about him is right on.

He has no right or wrong, the world unfolds before him, HE IS HIS OWN MAKER. Nice, that.

I would say you get done with your Plan A, quick. Get things in place for your Plan B. Get things lined up for some sort of arrangement on changing the kids back and forth - have the attorney you are talking to draw something up for you - and swap out to Plan B as soon as possible.

Leave this WW to her own devices with this man, because she will figure out exactly how controlling he is pretty quickly. You will not need to do anything. Start moving your money now. Work fast, because the gravy train she is on needs to jump the tracks, so the affair will run off the rails.

This guy is spouting the new hippie movement crappola, and your wife is caught up in the fantasy. When you kick her to the REALITY CURB, she will figure out what is what.

If she wants him and he wants her, then you lose little.

Sorry to be so blunt, but if your WW actually is buying this and wants to live with a drug-smoking, pill-popping, psychobabbling idiot, then she has that right. But you need a plan to fight for custody of your kids - so hang onto your emails, and get ready to rock and roll in court. No kids need to be around this man - he is certifiable. And you need to get any kids you can out of the situation, and if you cannot get your step-daughter out, you need to contact her father and help him get her out and with him, because if your wife is so caught up in the drug scene and with an obvious idiot, then she is not being anything remotely called

mother.


SB

wow, very scary stuff.

I agree with everything Schoolbus says.

Since he followed your step-daughter, trying to get her to "like" him, I'm wondering if SHE isn't his real target, and your WW is just a means of getting to your SD.

What? That would involve a lot of gin and tonics and a huge time traveling accident.


LC, I was wondering the same thing. My mom-dar (mommy radar) went nutz when I read that.

Any man that old who cares THAT much what a 12 year old girl NOT RELATED to him thinks scares the bejeebers outta me.

Is there any way you can get an RO because of the following bit? That's too scary for words.

If the "search" feature works, it doesn't work for me. However, there was a thread maybe a year ago from a man with the MB name of "Pablo." His wife's OM explicitly pursued the daughter in that case, about the same age as SD here, and it required legal action to keep him away. Fruit-loop in this story isn't as obvious, but his behavior still raises some troubling questions.

If anyone knows how to find that thread and put the link up so that it can be read by AWW, he may find that his situation has even more red flags than he thought.

Wow, just Wow...

I agree, he knows enough to be dangerous.

My perception is...he has learned, been taught, been self-taught some really great things that he has turned around to rationalize all the crap in his life that DOESN'T fit with what he's learned...and how does he get away with it? By telling himself he learned what he needed and now he knows MORE than his teachers...HAH! A little humbleness and humility injected in this situation is the "medication" he needs...

I have met some really great and wise people who have talked in this way, and used some of the same words...BUT, they have made sense and were honorable and loving.

What I read here is many words and rationalizations to spell out the same old OM song and dance...

1. No one loves you like me
2. Your H doesn't understand you like me
3. He is a villain and has these bad traits...
4. We can be happy together, and free (or whatever other complaints the WW has had)
5. I can make you happier than he can
6. I win

Read between the lines, he has said nothing different than any other OM, just said it in mystical "I have the secrets of the world in my hands" kind of way. This is very dangerous, and I agree, very Manson-like.

The way he bombarded you with questions and the way he insulted you and belittled you were all tactics to knock you off balance and knock you down. He is in a battle with you, there is nothing altruistic about this...he is playing a game, an intelligent manipulation. There is NO reason to match him at his own game, he is good at word-weaving (word-snaking). Be simple and clear, use as few words as possible. Statements like..."I love ...." and "I do not trust your words" and "Leave my children alone".

He is wrong, we are animals...mammals last I checked, and top of the food chain. We hunt, we eat well, and we protect our families. Do not allow him to shame you out of your instinct to protect your family and yourself...

SHMI, I am WOMAN hear me ROAR!

I couldn't finish reading that... :crosseyedcrazy:

At least carry some pepper spray or a stun gun on you. What a freak.

AWW,

This guy has all of the makings of a sociopath.

What really concerns me is that your WW has submitted herself voluntarily to this man’s warped influence.

You will not be able to “teach” this guy a lesson of any sort. We’ve seen it before. He will take any supposed lesson and morph it into his personal justification to do anything he wants. You can’t counsel this sort of sick mindedness out of someone, it’s just who they are for the rest of their lives unfortunately.

In the old days, we would simply beat this guy to within an inch of his life as many times as it took to get the point across that his behavior wasn’t good for him. Sadly, now you can go to prison for that.

That aside, you have to take the next step which is good for you. I agree with Schoolbus and others that you should execute a plan B. How can you plan A someone that is involved with a demented mind like this without risking all that you have left yourself. This guy probably has nothing to lose in the equation and you have EVERYTHING to lose.

Get the damn restraining order for goodness sakes. It’s cheap, effective, and will make his life a logistical nightmare; along with causing your WW the problems of how to deal with your SD being around the guy.

Just for your notes: all OM are pieces of crap and dealing with them is as much fun as scraping crushed slugs off of the sole of your shoe.

Have you exposed to EVERYONE yet? I may have missed that.

There was a guy around here that talked like that. We called him "Cosmic Bob" because he always seemed to be on some other planet that the rest of us were never aware of.

There were those (usually young women) who considered him, witty, wise and philosophical...

He was an acid head...

His focus on one subject was about ten seconds or as many words most of the time.

One day "Cosmic Bob" decided the laws of physics didn't apply to anyone who refused to believe in them. He tried to fly...



This guy's not a mystic. He's high! :crosseyedcrazy:

He has also read too many childrens books.

Or watched too much Lifetime Movie Network...

Hey wait a minute...

I like children's books and I watch Lifetime...

Please don't lump me together with that VaporousBabble speaking Son of a Guru...

1. I think schoolbus must have one of the funnest jobs on the planet.

2. I agree with whoever said they've heard similar trains of thought from schizophrenics. I'm thinking of that movie where Johnny Depp sees this huge scary rabbit. It would take more than alcohol for me to understand his email. Something, but stronger than alcohol.

3. Scary dude. I'm thinking Jim Jones, David Koresh (sp?), Charlie Manson.

Do what SB said. And protect your kids.

He's likely a meth-using kid-toucher.

They are the fastest-growing segment of the population, ****edit****

Excuse me?

I was joking...it just seems that way around here.


After re-reading my post, I thought maybe "Hispanic" is the non-p.c. word to use. I'm not sure.

AWWW,

Trust me, his writings don't indicate schizophrenia.

Drug use, yes.

Lying behavior, yes.

Manipulation to effect others' behavior in favor of a return in gain of his own desires, yes.

Attempts to confuse you, yes.

Attempts to make you believe he is a threat while trying to remain technically innocent under the law, yes.

Schizophrenic, nope.


Schizophrenia shows up quite differently. Very interesting to read, by the way.


SB

That movie was Donnie Darko and the rabbit was Frank.

His words and actions make my skin crawl.
My gag reflex is also triggered.

Keep the kids as far away from him as possible. Even if he isn't a pedophile, he will try to exert influence over them, influence that as a stranger he has no right to use.

No boundaries. A creeping jellyfish.

If your SD ever calls you again, you offer to drive as close to the perimeter of the restraining order to pick her up, or walk as close to her as possible to meet her.

I'm not suggesting he is violent, though I don't know. But having her big strong step dad by her side, between her and the gag reflex triggering POS, will do wonders for her self esteem and for your father daughter bonding.

eeeeew. eeeeew.

By the way, my divorced mom had a few of these creeps in her life as well. We were about your SD's age. They would come on all grown up protective male, giving us a stern talking to about how we should be nice to our mother. Like they had some sort of authority or power over our behavior or our feelings, or some right to command us.

Curious thing was, that all of them had some little innocent wifey at home completely unaware of what their hubby was doing in his spare time........