I need to be honest here and admit that I'm not really all that concerned about saving the marriage at this point. I'm thinking about stabilizing the situation, getting rid of this ****edit**** from my family, and maintaining basic safety for those I love (including WW). Someone suggested in my other thread that I should leave, get custody of my son, and abandon my SD. There's no way I can do that! Even thinking about leaving, Plan B, whatever, seems to leave an open door to let this sicko wrap his tentacles even tighter than they already are. I feel like I'm in a no-win situation. I'm sooooo ready to go, but what the hell do I leave behind? She's in no position to go. She doesn't really have anywhere and she's not capable of supporting herself. And for what it's worth, I don't think she wants to...she's the classic cake-eater, fence-walker. My life is truly ****edit****~

hmmmm, my male coworkers say that word. What does it mean??

****edit****

I got a reply for this bonehead OM.

Dear Crackhead,

Your dribble bores me, however please send more, I don't think one sheet is going to cut it when I take my next trip to the bathroom. But I do want you to know that I take extra consideration making sure I flush, and flush well.

Sincerely,
John "Ba-wooosh" Doe

With babble like that, is OM from LA by chance?

Who is it that said on one thread, you can't buy this stuff. Nope, you are the lucky one to read it. This one is out there for sure.

Go with the restraining order for you and SD. I have not read your other threads, but I am concerned about his interest in your SD. And your SD's radar seems to be up about him. There are pedophiles around who look for vulnerable women with daughters or sons. Crack and coke can tend to make people feel like they are invincible.

Sorry, but I don't think this guy is an example of the sixties and his act has no real relationship to "hippies". Comparing him to an old "hippie" is sort of like comparing a homosexual to a pedophile.

I may have made a typo in the other thread. He's only 50. Doesn't seem like the hippie type really. Just thinks he's really smart and wise. But he's being shown up by someone 15 years his junior. I've thought alot about the restraining order, but don't know if I have sufficient grounds yet. Does anyone know what public entity usually handles this? Is a person who has one served in any capacity?

Nope, from Florida.

How you get a restraining order depends on where you live. In my state, California, you just go to the court, fill out a paper giving details of why the person is a threat and then you see the judge. You can check with your court.

I think you should do a thorough background check and see if he has mental issues, drug arrests, etc. Then I would try to get the restraining order to keep him away from step daughter and your son. A 50 year old man should NOT be following her and talking to her.

He reminds me of a neighbor I knew who was a schizophrenic, using eloquent words strung together that added up to nonsense.

That guy needs spell check...although it would be somewhat of a waste when he obviously lacks coherence check, grammar check, logic check, intelligence check, jerk check, and if-what-I-am-doing-wasn't-so-evil-I'd-be-boring-as-heck check.

Someone needs to ring his bell.

you said on this thread or another thread that your WW left your 12 year old SD alone with several younger children overnight and went out and used drugs--coke with this guy.

If you had known of this at the time that it had happened and called this situation in to child protection (the hot line), your WW would have likely have been determined to have put the children into a situation of immediate risk of harm.

Twelve is old enough to watch children for a few hours, but I am not certain that it is old enough to watch children overnight. If it could be proven that she was using coke, she would most likely find herself being required to go to rehab and find herself having to pee in a cup to get custody returned. It is the combination of drug use and leaving the children unsupervised overnight that could cause her big problems. Again, I am not certain how a twelve year old would be viewed in that situation, but if the 12 year old, when interviewed, said things like, I don't have a phone number where my mom is, I don't know when she is returning, I don't like being here like this, I told her I did not want to watch the kids, or I did not know she was even gone--If it was any of those scenarios, it would not look good for your WW.

I've never posted to you before. My name here is Schoolbus. One part of my real life jobs is linguistic analyses of written samples. I absolutely could not resist doing this one just for the fun of it, because your other man is an idiot. I love idiots. He is a liar, who is in the relationship with your wife because he wants what he can get from her. His plan is clearly stated, and he attempts to cover it - print out for her what I show her in the email below. She will initially try to deny it, but his words are there, plain as day. His conversation with you is also crystal clear. There is NO intent on his part for a future with her. He is a user (in more ways than one). Watch and learn what he has to say. His words in black, my analysis in red.



So what is your truth? Kind of got me confused brother. The use of the concept of alternate truths is very common in those who are preparing to lie or attempt to confuse others. The idea that there is more than one truth is a tactic used to disrupt the position of those who usually have what society tends to believe have the moral high ground - and so the person who is arguing from the low ground will attempt this tactic saying "there is more than one truth". Also, the opening volley in an email or letter such as this, with the idea that the writer is the "confused person" is a common tactic for deception. It is meant to place the writer in what is deceptively an underdog position, when they are NOT feeling that way at all, and are NOT confused at all. It is a deception used when the writer feels a position of power.


We are brothers, you know, you thinking you control the natural occurrence of life, me wowed by it over and over again, in peaceful tranquility of what it brings, knowing my actions dictate this in some arcane way. The idea that he attempts to bring you two together as "brothers" is laughable. This tactic is often used to attempt to gain a human stance and gain ground with the opponent, saying to the other, "Look, we are both humans in all of this, see me as a human and start from that standpoint." His use of the terms "peaceful tranquility" and "natural occurrence of life" are purposeful in that they are meant to move your mind into the thoughts that his affair with your wife is something that is normal and natural, and that there is nothing wrong there, that these are events of nature that occur, that he has walked into just as naturally as he walks a path along a riverside.

You standing tall and acting unlike who and what you are. This statement is quite interesting to me. He has some depth of thought right here that I would very much like to explore with him. It is likely what is attracting your wife about him, and you would be interested to know this about him. I need to explain this about him, so that you will understand her attraction, and likely their conversations. This statement explains his basic philosophy of life and of human behavior. What he is saying is that when you confronted him, you stood and behaved relatively calmly, and betrayed what he thought you actually wanted to do, which was to act wild and tear him apart. He believes people are NOT basically peaceful, that they have to work to get there - HE WORKS TO GET THERE, so he believes others do, too. His life focus likely has a great deal of talk and focus on "peaceful pursuits", and your ideas regarding the hippie movement are probably not too far off. I would be willing to bet he looks into Eastern religions, and has dabbled in many offbeat religious pursuits and readings as well, in his searching for the "truth" as he sees it. His concepts for right and wrong are likely based in relativism. This goes a long way toward explaining his distaste for your position on his interference with your marriage, your judgement of his immorality in terms of the affair, and your judgement of your wife's affair behavior, as well as your religious beliefs. He is searching for a religious belief that settles him in with his personal observations of man's animalistic nature (his OWN) and what he sees as a peaceful natural world (one he WANTS inside himself).


You should have took a swing at me ***, then I would have turned the other cheek for you to take another. He needs a chance to SEE if he would have been able to prove his peaceful nature to himself, and to WW. Somehow, he needs to prove this to himself...........Only.......he betrays himself in this very email.

You have every right to do this, so again you jump back into the mode of what you say you are not.
Darn!!!!!! You didn't rise to the challenge he made and SMACK HIM!!!! What is wrong with you???? See, the true nature of this man comes out, right here, where I usually expect it, around paragraph 3.

You are grounded and lifted in your confusion with the element of self and denial. You have no control over what the laws of nature transcend. I am sitting by a pool of water fed by a tranquil fountain, you are lost in the throws of your perch. I am surrounded by the beauty of life and all it's wonders, as your pool is one filled with pity and self riotousness, laden in heavy shoes and sinking below the surface.
I would say to you, change the pronouns in this paragraph - reverse them. See then who is in control of himself.............

He is attempting here to bait you. He desires very much for you to attack HIM. Why? Because he wants to fight you, which is his NATURE. Only, right now, he's in this "peace, man" mode, and can't do it. Don't rise to the bait. He will go nuts, and love-bust with your wife. Count on it.

I am not your problem ***, to see it clearly look in a mirror. He is right about the idea that he is not your problem. HE IS HIS OWN PROBLEM. You are yours. If you want to save your marriage, understand that you can focus on one person in your marriage - yourself. Believe me, this man will screw up on his own.


However if you would like me to assume this position, this place you see me then you have choices, the fruits of all we expect in life. Lets see you can, how did you put it so eloquently, " [censored] me up"; in the annals of mankind lets retrace the ways...........you could use your hands as I suggested, or you could use a rock, a stick, a bat, a vehicle, a gun, there's always the hiring of a hit man to do it for you, you could track me down, wait in hiding, or better yet you could use your words to spread discontent, you could find out were i live and mess up my yard or my house, you could vandalize my vehicles, you could find out were I work and harass me, you could use myspace and [censored] with my friends or with my kids, or do you cast another spell upon me with your magick? yes *** the list goes on...............But understand this, if you choose this way I have the right to react. You do not know me so think this through before you choose this way, retribution is a two way street, consider this wisely, I will..........count on it.
In these actions you have nothing to gain though, you are to smart not to realize this.
You ask if this is a threat? Yes, plain and simple. Although couched in the reverse terms of "how should you attack me", this is actually his attempt to tell you that he WANTS you to engage him in a physical attack of some kind, so that he can come back at you. He then gives you a list of how he has ALREADY planned to get you back. What I find interesting is the last sentence here, "you are smart NOT to realize this"....what's with the "not"???? that negates the sentence. See, he gets so caught up in his own flowery language he undoes what he says. Not so smart sometimes.


A man is faced with choices, what is to be gained has to be thought of with what you have to lose. We are simple beings when we get down to it ***, animals fight for there turf and there mates, yet we are not animals, we are refined human beings. Like I said, he likens himself to an animal. Here, he says we are simple beings in the basic sense. Then he tries to back off of that and wake HIMSELF up to the fact that we are supposed to be REFINED creatures. He isn't so refined. He fights himself, his own depravities.

I do not want what you have, can you understand this? If this is true, then, why would he ever promise anything to your wife????? This is where he exposes his lies to your wife, clearly stating he DOES NOT WANT HER. Ooops.

I already have in ways what you never had, what you will never allow yourself to have. Now, he brags about what he has taken from her. This is the ugly side of this man, that your wife needs to understand. He views her as something he has conquered, that he "has what you have" and that you "never had" before. Your wife, to him, IS NOTHING BUT SOME PIECE OF PROPERTY, AND MEANS NOTHING MORE. HE WILL TREAT HER LIKE TRASH ONCE SHE DOES ANYTHING HE DOES NOT LIKE, OR QUESTIONS ANYTHING HE DOES.


This is not my choice or my fault. I would suggest that he believes that there has been nothing that has been his faulth in his life. His belief system does not place blame, as there is not a true "right" or "wrong", as all things are the result of a natural occurrence, because we are, after all, natural creatures. One of the many "truths", and we will be able to see that other people have their truth as well. The only problem will come when your truth is not his truth. Watch the next sentence...

You chose to confront me wait....what happened to YOUR truth...because, aren't you entitled to your truth, and he's entitled to his???? , what did you gain?

Do you feel better now? Do you think your actions scared me off? Should I be afraid of what happens next? I surely am not ***.

I will assume that the three *** means he used your name here. When the use of the name comes in, this is equivalent of standing up and shaking a finger in the face of the other person. He is now angry, and a little fear is showing. So, he stands up and shows that he does have some fear of you. It came in the form of the "I'm not afraid of YOU" rant.

Your actions are typical and petty in the grand scheme of things. While in the seminary did you not learn the natural occurrence of this life and all it's teachings in the name of your religion?
Gee, this very "open-minded" person doesn't like your religion. Strange, but does he tell the woman he is having an affair with that he doesn't like hers, either? Believe me, it will get to her after awhile. People begin to take umbrage around the holidays when their Christ is berated.

Have you turned your back on these laws we live by?
He's back to the natural laws thing. He wants you to believe that the affair is "natural".

You have the right to confuse me with your state, I will not and cannot disallow you this process. Poor confused b@ss98798d.

It is your right, your choice to act in the way you choose.What choices can you afford me ***? Do I have the right to do the same. Are we not standing in the same place?

Do you allow me my experience of natural occurrence? Do I not stand in the place of deciding my path and all it's occurrences? Here is where he betrays his own beliefs. At first, he explains that nature leads us on our path. Now, he says that he chooses his natural path. Wonder which it is.


Are you able to strip my rights at your whim, in the name of some divine principle that is all your own? He obviously does not understand "divine principles" not being one's "own". By definition, "divine" would not be one's "own" principles. But I digress.

Do you get lonely on this perch of indignant power over others? I would point out that the indignant one here has been the writer of the email. The tone of this letter has been quite indignant and angry, with quite a dash of fear inserted. This line is just a poke at you because of a sense of being judged, and a recognition of your position of the moral high ground.

Will your kids be better for what they see in your inability to be equitable in the judgment you choose here? This statement is revealing of this man's fear of being judged. He does not like the idea of people thinking badly about his behavior. Also, there is a sense of your powerful influence over the children involved in this situation. This position of influence with the children bothers him, because he likely recognizes that the kids know exactly what right and wrong are, and also recognize his line of bull.

Did you ever stop to consider I could have been the best thing to happen to your situation. An interesting perspective, here. He may be telling you that his presence may be putting you into a position of higher awareness in your marriage. True enough. But it does not alleviate him of his role in the affair, or from being a general idiot and jerk.

I am not ignorant to how things work ***, I am not your problem, but may have been able to show another the right way to go in this place, this is how our lives unfold. We learn from the actions of others. The way this occurs is not up to debate, it is simply the way things work.
Wow. What a way to try to say something without actually saying it. He could be related to another poster here who shall remain nameless. Anyway, he's basically saying he knows he has done the wrong thing, but will not ever admit it. He just blames nature, and "whatever".

You mention karma as if it is something to fear and find reproach in, and also something you can ordain on another, but you know better than this, you are wiser than this brother. You are better read than this, better learned than this. Here is where he shows that he understands a little bit about Eastern religions. True, you can't push karma onto another person. Can't hope for it, either. But you can certainly advise another person that karma exists, and remind them that their actions do result in karma visiting them, and to be sure their actions are directed in a way that they would like to have karma visit them. Perhaps he needs a new book.

Your actions will never dictate my reactions other than the compassion I feel within for the idiotic and disappointing choices I have chosen to make in my life. Gee. He agrees with me. Even used the root word "idiot". Thanks.

You do not know me, I will let this episode be a reminder of man's inability to conquer fear. He doesn't even recognize this - but he is afraid of you. And of the outcome of this mess he made. But inside, he KNOWS where this is headed, and he knows what he's done will not end up in the "win" column for him.


The things I fear make your threats seem trivial and miniscule in comparison. I am willing to bet this is true. One of the things this man fears is total loss of control. You would be best served to stay away from him physically.

I am no better than any of my brothers or sisters in this place. The friendship two people share is out of your hands, beyond your control, by design ***.
He is trying to say that what your wife and he share is ONLY A FRIENDSHIP. I wonder what your wife would say about this?????

You overreacted and breathed life into something of your manufacture, all in the vain of everything you portray yourself to be. He says that your reaction to what has happened so far is pushing the two of them closer together. This is a veiled threat to back off - so, it means that it is causing problems between the two of them. Expose the affair more widely.


You are a better person than this, a better friend than this, a better father than this, a better man than this.

I am only in this place to experience life, and only in the way I choose to allow this, it is my right to feel this way. Direct translation of this: I am only in this affair for what I can get out of it. I am along for the ride in any relationship. I am not up for a committed relationship. I don't want to put anything INTO a relationship, not more than I can get out of it, anyway. When I get bored, I'm out. When it becomes more trouble than the sex is worth, I'm out. When it isn't "fun" anymore, I'm out. When anything more interesting, or "whatever" comes along, I'm out. If my feelings change because it's Tuesday, I'm out, at least for Tuesday.


None of my actions have been in a way to hurt, threaten or take away anything you have or call your own. I really am not wanting to take your wife. I just want to sleep with her.

I do not need you to confront me with my failures, I had not forgotten them by any means. Don't tell me about things I do wrong. I don't believe in right and wrong. Well, actually I probably do, but I don't want to hear about it. I kind of want to try out these new religions, or at least give them a trial run. I want to kind of be a "peace, dude" kind of guy right now, because it works for picking up chicks and getting me some good pot. Also, I don't have to work really hard at anything, and I don't have to explain my bad behavior so much. This way, I can attribute my bad choices to alternative truths, my alternative religion, and not really have to deal with guilt and baggage. So don't go talking to me about bad stuff. It's a downer, dude.


Take a deep breath and in this find the peace you need to be yourself, all of yours will be better for this. When I'm done with her, I will kick her to the curb. She will be back, asking to come to the family. You need to be open to forgiving her, because she really doesn't have anywhere else to go, and you know it. After all, you're a Christian, and isn't that your gig?

Later dude....... Later, dude.

LOL!!!! PERFECT, SB. Oh, I hope he posts your reply on the refrigerator for his wife to see.

I would imagine that leaving a 12 year old in charge of several children overnight constitutes neglect and could be reported. Who were these other children.

AWIW, you have several messes on your hands.

Oh, yeah, be sure that 12 year old knows how to reach you. If this happens again, call and report this. In many states, you are technically criminally liable if you know abuse or neglect is taking place and you fail to report it.

Wow....lots to respond to here! First off, Schoolbus, your analysis is priceless!!!! I'm DEFINITELY going to show this to my wife.

Yes, my wife left three children in the custody of my 12 yo SD, returning home at 7:00 a.m. At five a.m., SD called me to inform me that WW wasn’t home yet so I had her call the other children’s father, who came immediately. I was in another state at the time visiting family. I considered filing a report with family services, but was asked not to by my friend, the father, who didn’t want to be involved at that level. Part of me regrets not doing that but I guess at the time I needed to rely on his alliance…he’s also my wife’s employer. Also, since I was out of state, I didn’t want the kids taken into custody of a public entity until I returned. Still, this incident is on the record and I guess at a certain point, my friend might have to testify if this comes up in court. Knowing his character, I believe he’ll tell the truth, even if he doesn’t want to.

You don’t know how much I’d like to clean this guy’s clock. I have about four or five friends lined up chomping at the bit to do so as well. I’ve even been working to diffuse their animosity toward him, figuring it might cause more trouble for me in the long run. I am, however, purchasing a firearm and taking steps to obtain a concealed weapons permit….you never know, do you? I think his animosity toward me is as plain as the (rather large) nose on his face. She hasn’t seen it yet, even in the demonstration of these emails and his drunken friend getting in my face. I’ve thus far handled all such situations calmly and coolly, proving I’m the better man. It hasn’t been easy! Yes, much of his persona is wrapped in the guise of being “peaceful”. She once told me in the midst of one of my tirades “he’s a peaceful man”. I think he’d like to be, but he just doesn’t have it in him. I don’t know what most folks here think about astrology, but he is an Ares…god of war. I think he likes the fight, likes the challenge this pursuit has brought and is relishing in it. I think he’s more motivated by that than any strong attraction to my wife. It’s now become a game for him and he’s obviously not giving up that easy. I’ve considered that a normal man would say “woah, this isn’t worth it”. If he truly cared about my wife, he’d consider the trouble he’s causing her. I don’t put much stock in astrology but I know he does, as does my wife. I am a Leo. I’ve learned that he had a troubled relationship with his father, who was also a Leo. We are both fire signs and that puts at odds with each other. I’ve tried to point this out to her, in an attempt to “speak her language”. She still doesn’t get it. I think she’s relishing the position of having two men struggle so much over her. She has an astrological calendar on the wall and one day early on in this was this little nugget—“Pay attention to red flags again when it comes to a new romance or friendship. Sometimes you see only the things you want to see and ignore the warning signs”. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Here’s another facet to this. He’s all about “freedom” and choice. He portrays me as trying to incarcerate and control her. He’s really pushed that to her….”see, he’s trying to control you”. His manipulation is amazing! In reality, it seems the reverse, as if he's trying to control her, even trying to control me. That's why he wants to pick a fight, wants me to attack! Someone mentioned a Manson mentality and I don’t think that’s too far from the truth! Gawd, what a mess! She really stumbled on a dangerous individual and I NEED to get him out of our lives, regardless if our marriage is ever saved!!!!

You don't know how hard you hit the nail on the head with this.



Exactly. His words in the email point that out to you. My analysis confirms it. You read it, he said it. You feel it. The only thing blocking the break-up is that your WW does not see this.

Your aim now is to get her to see it.



I wonder, if you would not be a candidate for an extremely fast Plan A, followed by a sudden and very dark Plan B. What a surprise it might be for your wife when you hit her with every bit of loving you have for, say a week or two, and then shut the door and go completely dark to her.

You do not engage her at all...."giving up", as it were, so that you are not controlling a single thing in her life. Then, she would have no choice but to see who the real manipulator is.

He would not be able to meet her needs - because he has absolutely no interest in doing so. He is depending on YOU to meet them, and he just gets her to meet HIS.

When she finds herself without you, and there IS NO CAKE TO EAT, watch what happens.

He will be gone. That interest of his, in the fight, the drama, the "win", will be over. And of course, her sadness will be

a bummer, dude.

Like, it isn't peaceful, man, to cry all the time.

And his line of bull will not get her over you.


SB

Great analysis, SB! I always chuckle when I hear someone say "is that your truth" because it is so silly. It is a self refuting statement but they have not figured that out yet. They have confused TRUTH with PERSPECTIVE and it also means that logic is not their friend. It is unusal to hear someone over 30 who has not figured out how dumb that statement is.

AWW, this is not a bright fella.