We believe in biblical reasons for divorce and wife has one. She can't forgive and we have worked through this program and one other as well as seeing a marriage counselor for months......should I bring up the topic of divorce..........we had a bad marriage for years and this is just proloning an already bad marriage.
Jeff, this and your other thread tell me that you're not willing to pay penance for your sins. Why would she forgive you?
If you want a divorce, just do it. Otherwise, be prepared to pay for your sins for the rest of your life. A woman can't forgive someone who betrays her and then expects her to 'just drop it already'. You have to have true remorse and show that you will do anything, ANYTHING, to make it up to her, including listening to her when she needs to vent, and answering all of her questions.
Jeff:
You screwed up. Literally.
And your not willing to do what it takes to FIX IT.
Then divorce your wife. Simple solution.
She may not ever be able to forgive you. and you can take the next exit off of this bumpy road.
You can blame her after that.
But that isn't the real problem, is it?
I can help you out some. I was the WS. I was wayward for 4.5 years. Dday was 3.2 years ago. If ever there was a spouse here that could not forgive, it was my Flamingo.
But using what we learned here, WE were able to fix our marriage.
You can to.
LG
What do you mean that I have censored up literally?
I've read everything on this board and put it practice. We talked............a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
I came completely clean............expressed remorse time and time again..............!
I've apologized....................!
I've attempted to meat her needs!
It's never enough!
It's funny..........when we were married she could care less..............!
I understand the concept of making just compensation and I have................I have an issue with paying forever!
I have an issue with paying forever!
No, she should be the only one that pays forever.
:RollieEyes:
you're right...it isn't.
your attitude is your biggest problem.
It's been eight months since I've come forward. I've been transparent, we worked for three months on a marriage covenant, I've been in counselling for six months, and things are worse off than before.
Our biggest mistake was going to see the movie Fireproof. Wife is demanding that I wooo, pursue, and take her rejection until I've paid my just compensation to her. It's been a 15 year neglected marriage she wants me to completely abandon myself to inorder to show her I'm sincere. She insists I continually go first and to take the brunt of her anger and suspicion if and when it rears it's ugly head.
Help!
8 MONTHS is NOTHING When you have been at this 2-3 YEARS with no progress...MAYBE you can complain.
Your attitude SUCKS
This process takes two to five years.
It does not take eight months. It does not help if you are blowing up at your BW the way you blow up here when you read things that you do mot want to see.
Cause if you do, whatever you have done to prove yourself just gets thrown away.
Jeff, what exactly did you "come forward" with? What did you do? How long? With whom? How did your wife find out?
How long married and how many kids?
What do you mean that I have censored up literally?
I've read everything on this board and put it practice. We talked............a lot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.
I came completely clean............expressed remorse time and time again..............!
I've apologized....................!
I've attempted to meat her needs!
It's never enough!
It's funny..........when we were married she could care less..............!
I understand the concept of making just compensation and I have................I have an issue with paying forever!
Why don't you try understanding just what it is that you have done to her. Try understanding how SHE must feel. Any problems that YOU have now, you brought on YOURSELF.
Try putting the narcissist on the back burner and have a tiny bit of empathy.
And stop whining, for god's sake.
I don't blow up. I do get frustrated though with the lack of progress.
It just seems to me that unforgiveness and the lack of meeting one another's needs will not make a happy marriage.
This is obviously the wrong forum for me.
I don't believe that I have committed the unpardonable sin. I have and remain repentent. All I have ever wanted is a happy marriage. It had been me that suggested we go to marital counselling long before my indidelity and she wan't interested.
I thought I'd vent my frustrating here so I wouldn't do it at home.
Jeff, what exactly did you do? We can help you, but we just need more details.
At 8 months into recovery your wife is probably going thru a perfectly normal anger stage.
You are still angry and unforgiving over a marriage that wasn't happy before you had your affair.
Did you have an Affair?
Sometimes you don't hear what you want to on these boards, but you hear what you need to hear.
That being said, please take the chip off your shoulder, give us the details of what happened, and allow these wonderful people here to get you back on track.
And then, you and your wife might have that great marriage.
We really need more details in order to help you properly. You can't expect anyone to get a clear picture when you are venting without details of what has happened.
Love in Christ,
Miss M
Jeff, I know pre-infidelity marital detachment well.......I spent 30+ years looking for a Biblically acceptable reason to justify a D. (Saga linked to my sig line.)
I don't blow up. I do get frustrated though with the lack of progress.
Be patient.....educate yourself...this will take years, not months, as all have said to you.
It just seems to me that unforgiveness and the lack of meeting one another's needs will not make a happy marriage.
It's difficult for someone who's been blown to bits to be able to forgive and meet needs immediately....eventually, yes, but 8 months is still considered the anger stage for most.
This is obviously the wrong forum for me.
This forum can help you and may be the perfect forum for you.
I don't believe that I have committed the unpardonable sin. I have and remain repentent. All I have ever wanted is a happy marriage. It had been me that suggested we go to marital counselling long before my indidelity and she wan't interested.
It's good you looked for help but no excuse to be impatient now that she needs help. My FWH has said he will do anything for however long it takes for me to heal and he is backing his words up with actions.....two years later, we still have moments like you're experiencing.
I thought I'd vent my frustrating here so I wouldn't do it at home.
Take a deep breath and step back a bit, Jeff. Read and reflect on what is being said. We're here to help you, even if it may feel like you're being blasted at times.
Most have us have experienced what your W is going through and some know what your perspective is, too.
You can get through this if you're able to relax your defensiveness and let folks who have BTDT help you.
Best wishes,
Ace
I don't believe that I have committed the unpardonable sin.
You don't get to decide that.
Jeff-
If I am understanding your round about way- it sounds like you had an affair. If that is the case- understand she is suffering- understand that you placed a bullet in her heart that only you can help remove. For sometime it seemed my fwh would poke that bullet right back in my heart- with words of "get over it"- it's been a year why are you still holding onto the pain etc.
Believe me- (there maybe others out there thinking this) if I could "just get over it" or "let go of the pain" I would have snapped my finger and done it.
You may not be aware of a look- action- attitude that you may have that sets your wife right back in to that initial shocking pain- she felt on Dday.
My advice- it takes alot of time. With time and ALOT OF YOUR HARD WORK- OF BEING OPEN & HONEST AND COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY you will help her.
Have you asked her what she needs to heal?
What you can do to help her with the pain you've given her?
These questions will help her... to heal and eventually forgive you.
Right now- forgiveness is not on the top of her list- I would say just making it through the day without killing you- is more like it.
Remember what you did to your wife in a few hours- may take years to fix. You need to do your part to fix this mess.
As far as you being forgiven- have you told her what it is you need to feel forgiven? At this point in the process- she may have forgiven you all that she can- with time it will/can change.
Amartini
Jeffy,
""I don't believe that I have committed the unpardonable sin.""
Since your thread title is "wife won't forgive betrayal" I must assume you were unfaithful and committed adultery with another outside your marriage.
WE here in the halls of MB, KNOW that betraying ones spouse by committing adultery is one of the most traumatic events that can be experienced. It's right up there with death of a child, rape and terminal illness. Except with adultery there is also the BETRAYAL by the one most cherished of the betrayed. So there is an added factor which intensifies the heartsickness, grief and despair the BS experiences.
AND WE EXPERIENCE IT FOR A LONG LONG TIME!!
So if this is not close to an "unpardonable sin"please enlighten us as to WHAT IS??
You must realize what you have done to her.
This is why everyone is jumping on you. You don't have the empathy and don't realize how terribly you have hurt her.
You say the M was crappy for a long time and "she didn't even notice".
But that is from YOU'RE standpoint!
IMHO
kirk
JeffS,
This IS the right forum for you.
A little more information is needed from you.
No one can help you with the program unless we get more input.
So how about a little help from your end.
I believe I'm done with this site. It's telling when the majority of the people who posted are former bs and they responded with such venom. I'm not seeing any evidence of healed lives here. Instead, I see responses from people with little empathy and even trying to see anything but from their own hurt.
People are posting from so called healed relationships after 5 or more years and they attack................I don't need that kind of well healed advice.
No, I didn't commit the unpardonable sin.............I did own up and still do.................it takes two to make a crappy marriage. It takes two to make a good one.
I wander how many of the cs are still paying the price that apparently the majority of you bs expect...........I know a guy who paid the entire price and lost his skin for me........I think I'll take his advice. He was right...........you can't forgive others unless you see your own sins.............!
There is such a thing of driving your spouse away.........emotionally castrating them.............rejecting them for a period of years and then.............the perfect storm and someone comes along and meets your need in the place where you have been hurt for years............
I am sorry for what I have done and my life is an open book now. I fully confessed, immediately broke off contact.........full disclosure........worked through a program..........answer all questions at all times......and yet
I'm told I must pay and be unforgiven for however long and only the bs can say how much for how long...............!
Seems like a bs needs at some point to decide if they want to work together to reconcile or to let the unfaithful spouse go!
So thanks for the attacks............most of you have shown how healed you are!
Seems like a bs needs at some point to decide if they want to work together to reconcile or to let the unfaithful spouse go!
So thanks for the attacks............most of you have shown how healed you are!
Jeff,
Please read the Success Story thread linked to my sig line. Many have been helped who were in worse straits that you and your W are in. Some of the earlier links are broken but the later ones do work.
I'll be praying that you will seek and find the help you need.
We are very early in this recovery process but my FWH and I are now having the time of our lives.....we are in love with a passion I only thought was available in movies and fairytales.
Our faith in God and the concepts we've learned here on MB have made the difference after 30+ years of misery.
Please stick around, even if you don't post for awhile. Read all the articles and Q & A segments here. You will find answers to your pain. Your wife will, too.
Best wishes to you,
Ace
Wow! You've shown just how repentant you are. Your wife drove you away and into your affair...:RollieEyes:
Wow! You've shown just how repentant you are. Your wife drove you away and into your affair...:RollieEyes:
I wonder what I could do to cause my wife to force me into a shiny new vagina?
Jeff, you sound like my wife, man up and face the consequences. If recovery is not worth the effort, then set her free. If it is, then buck up and realize that it may be like this for a wile, 2 years is not uncomon.
No, I didn't commit the unpardonable sin.........................
Your wife and God get to decide that, not you.
Jeff,
The 6-9 month mark is often the hardest.
Your wife has come out of shock and is starting to let her emotions out. It's kinda a post traumatic stress thing.
Unless you are a quitter...you need to see this through for at least 2 years.
Speaking of repentence. It's more than just "I'm sorry". It's a gift that YOU seek from God and once granted (from HIM) you will know what you have to do and how to do it. Such "gift" is not dependent upon your wife's forgiveness. Her forgiveness is beyond your control.
Please pray about this and seek out His word about repentence.
Mr. Wondering
I believe I'm done with this site. It's telling when the majority of the people who posted are former bs and they responded with such venom. I'm not seeing any evidence of healed lives here. Instead, I see responses from people with little empathy and even trying to see anything but from their own hurt.
People are posting from so called healed relationships after 5 or more years and they attack................I don't need that kind of well healed advice.
No, I didn't commit the unpardonable sin.............I did own up and still do.................it takes two to make a crappy marriage. It takes two to make a good one.
I wander how many of the cs are still paying the price that apparently the majority of you bs expect...........I know a guy who paid the entire price and lost his skin for me........I think I'll take his advice. He was right...........you can't forgive others unless you see your own sins.............!
There is such a thing of driving your spouse away.........emotionally castrating them.............rejecting them for a period of years and then.............the perfect storm and someone comes along and meets your need in the place where you have been hurt for years............
I am sorry for what I have done and my life is an open book now. I fully confessed, immediately broke off contact.........full disclosure........worked through a program..........answer all questions at all times......and yet
I'm told I must pay and be unforgiven for however long and only the bs can say how much for how long...............!
Seems like a bs needs at some point to decide if they want to work together to reconcile or to let the unfaithful spouse go!
So thanks for the attacks............most of you have shown how healed you are!
Oh, this is new. It's not we ever heard this from an unrepentant and petulant adulterer before!
Come back when you grow up.
A wonderful notable post from TopRope:
Getting Help: Rebuilding Trust After Infidelity
Why saying "I'm Sorry" is NOT Enough.
Your spouse is devastated to learn that you have been unfaithful, but you are determined to save your marriage. You’ve apologized profusely.
You take full responsibility for your actions.
You promise that it will never happen again.
And your spouse forgives you. ( Or at least begins too).
These steps, while necessary, Are Not Enough .
Many couples make the mistake of believing that after the initial shock, hurt and anger over an affair has worn off, they can simply “pick up the pieces” and get on with their lives.
Only later do they discover that lingering feelings of betrayal and mistrust slowly - but surely - destroy their relationship.
If you sincerely want to regain the trust and intimacy that you and your spouse once had, you must follow certain steps.
They are not always easy, and they don’t guarantee that your marriage will be saved.
But these steps can go a long way in healing the hurt the affair has caused, and putting your relationship on the right path.
1). Be completely honest with your spouse from now on.
You must be truthful and open about anything your spouse has a reasonable right to know.
This includes your work schedule, your activities with friends, your spending habits, and so on.
Of course, if you had followed this step all along, the affair probably would not have occurred.
You might be tempted to think that telling a “white lie” now and then is harmless, especially if it has nothing to do with being unfaithful.
But your spouse is more likely Now to detect Any Signs of deception or evasiveness on your part.
And When you get caught in a lie, No Matter How Trivial , your spouse will wonder What Else you may be lying about.
2 . Fully Answer "whatever" questions your spouse has about the affair.
Yes, this will be uncomfortable and embarrassing.
It’s normal for you to want to put the affair in the past and “move on.”
Besides, you think, your spouse is already hurt and angry. Wouldn’t learning all the details make those feelings even worse?
Perhaps.
But unanswered questions and doubts can linger on for years, making it very difficult for your spouse to truly forgive you and trust you again.
And it is Far Better that your spouse get the information From YOU , rather than hear it from someone else or Find out some other way.
3 . Make Amends to your spouse.
This Crucial Step is Overlooked far too often .
Maybe you think that merely saying “I’m sorry” is sufficient.
Or you believe that nothing, really , can make up for the hurt you have caused.
But that is NO Reason Not To Try.
The best way to make amends is simply to ask your spouse what you can to make it up to him or her. Ideally, it will be something that reaffirms your love and brings the two of you closer together.
Perhaps it will something that your spouse has always wanted from you - being a better listener, for example - but that you somehow failed to provide.
The Purpose of making Amends Is NOT to Punish you for your misdeeds.
However, if making amends requires extra effort or sacrifice on your part, this may cause you to think twice before being unfaithful again.
4 . End all contact with your ex-lover.
You might protest that this step is unreasonable, especially if you see your ex-lover at work or some other place where running into each other is unavoidable.
However, the temptation to resume the affair may prove too strong, no matter how well-intentioned you are. Furthermore, your spouse will NEVER be Comfortable knowing that your ex is still in the picture.
So, do Whatever it Takes to avoid that person, even if that means Changing your job or Moving to a new area.
Recovering from an affair takes commitment and effort by both spouses.
Following these steps will help make that recovery more lasting and meaningful.
JeffS,
Many BS's & FWS's on this thread have offered some realistic advice, but have asked for more information from you.
You still have not been forthcoming with any answers to anyone's questions.
You have remained defensive.
And in doing so, you do not sound very sincere.
You will not always get positve strokes.
But you will get honesty and help from the majority of people posting.
If you are really serious and want to get the help you need, then put your pride in your back pocket and tell us the details about your adultery and what you have done thus far in recovery.
No pain, No gain!
p.s.
Remember that this is a public forum and you are going to get some posts that will not feel very good.
Some of the posts on my thread, early on, were edited out by the moderators because they really were attacks.
You'll get over it just like I did!
Hey GRUMPY!! Take a chill pill!!
""No, I didn't commit the unpardonable sin.............I did own up and still do.................""
?????????????????????????????????
And from your first post all I got was, "8 months ago I came forward"
So most of us here, still don't understand what the heck you did or are talking about.
You say you are putting in the time and effort to make things better, but I am not quite sure for what you are repentant.
You are in the infidelity aisle so, again, did you commit adultery?
And if you have left the building, buhbye.
kirk
Typically I do not post to WS looking for help because I know my limits- but your title caught my eye... see I often feel my WS doesn't feel I have forgiven him. Maybe he feels the same as you- I thought maybe I could gain insight from you- maybe this is a process for both of us???
I have explained to him I can only do what I can... in small baby steps... I can say "I forgive you" but that would be meaningless without actions behind it... right?
I can only take one day at a time... I probably like your wife (at 8 months out) was not really thinking about forgiving you to what you are asking... see I asked what you need from her at this point because I did not want to assume....
I know my FWH would have loved for me to have never mentioned the pain I was feeling as a result of the A. It was VERY traumatic for me... as I am sure it was for your wife.
I would also imagine that you both paint a different picture of what your marriage was like pre-A (or whatever it was that you did that brought you here). This was true for my FWS.
See with a little more distance (time wise) you will both have a little different perspective of the situation- my hopes for you are that you two can learn to communicate and grow closer- so that with time- your perspectives of what went wrong will be a little more similar then they are now. (so true with my FWH)
Please understand- I am not trying to bash you- only trying to give you a little insight into the pain that you have inflicted in your marriage.
yes I did hear the marriage was not perfect- neither was mine- that imperfection did not allow my FWH permission to have an A. If he had talked with me about it- I would not have said- Oh- yeah that will help us, please go right ahead. Call the OW, take her to lunch, sneak in her house after her kids were sleeping to boink her, invest time in her that should have been invested in me.... HECK no I would not have agreed to that. I sure if you think about it--- whatever you did you would not have been provided permission either.
And yes we were totally disconnected to each other- I see that now- and I was hurt so very badly- I can hardly remember some days for MONTHS after d-day. Give her time- be patient- you have taken everything you have done (your burden) and given it to her at one time. Where you have much time to slip into your situation- she was blasted with it- she needs time to deal with it-
give her that gift
ask her what you can do to be a better spouse (the answer may hurt) and with time she might even ask you the same question
Remember- we are human- and it is very hard to heal from the devastation of such a betrayal- let alone give forgiveness like you may be wanting. It will take time.
good luck
Amartini
We believe in biblical reasons for divorce and wife has one. She can't forgive and we have worked through this program and one other as well as seeing a marriage counselor for months......should I bring up the topic of divorce..........we had a bad marriage for years and this is just proloning an already bad marriage.
Jeff,
If you're still reading, I'm hoping you can share more about your situation starting with the above bolded statement that I missed originally.
By
working through "this" program, did you mean the Marriagebuilders home study course or the Marriagebuilders Weekend seminar or MB books/workbooks available in local bookstores? What other program did you try? Is your MC familiar with Marriagebuilders concepts?
You say you had a bad marriage for years and getting help was your suggestion but your wife would not cooperate. It seems there are missing aspects to be considered but I can relate to your situation.....I tried for over 30 years to get help but after my H's A, we have finally found an effective solution.
Please consider filling in some of the answers to questions posters asked so that those of us who have similar experiences can help you.
Best wishes to you and your wife.
Ace
Like most wayword spouses who dont get the "your justified" replies they are looking for, Jeff is gone.
Like most wayword spouses
I prefer waynerd